[2013] Unit Placement Discussion [orig "Homeless In Paradise ..."]

[FractionalTraveler]

FT,
This is a very interesting point. I also own some trust points and have had a few DC point stays, but I didn't notice this on my reservation. My major concern when staying on points is what is my location assignment priority. It appears that each resort has their own policy regarding where DC point redeemers (trust or legacy) stand in the priority line. Some have told me that DC points are equal in priority to single week owners staying on owned week. Others give a slightly lower priority. In my experience, my villa assignments on DC points have been similar to my owned weeks: some good, some ok.
Have you noticed any difference in your villa assignment?

The other benefit of home resort is that we get to vote for board members. I still don't know how this workds for DC trust. This is my third year of point ownership and I have never received any information regarding the board. Do you have any information regarding this?

Superchief, my impression is that the properties know who is an owner and who is not.

Trust owners and legacy owners staying on DC point reservations are not currently viewed as owners IMHO based upon my experience in the program to date. Others may be having better luck than me but this is just my experience.

I have NOT received the same level of priority for villa assignments using my Trust points or DC point reservations (about 20 so far).

As an example, I just wrapped up my Father’s day weekend stay at Ocean Point using DC points. I was assigned Pompano building 4th floor. Not what I was expecting. When I asked at check-in, they simply stated that better units in upper floors were available but reserved for owners and that I was exchanging so that was the best they could do for me. I had reserved at 3-BR Oceanfront. I also think that my length of stay 2 nights had something to do with it as well. I would not expect them to give a worse unit preference to an owner for a 7-night stay just to accomodate my 2-night request.

Lesson learned: Basically if you don't pay MF at the property then you are an exchanger. Whether or not that puts me ahead of other guests (II, renters, etc.) is debatable at this point.

So much for Premier Plus. At this point the only benefit I can see is the 13 month reservation window and the 20% points discount availability 14 days before check-in. The RC benefit is for a limited time and Premier also has access anyways so no big deal.

Can't really argue with folks going after cheap resale units for the cost savings and villa preference priority over Trust Points purchases.

Spoke to two GM's on the subject over the weekend and both sang the same song. Owners occupying their owners week(s) have the highest priority period.

FT

 

[rpgriego]

How about this. I think the point trust owners should be a lower priority than the deeded owners. Why? Because they own a smaller percent interest in that resort than do the deeded owners. Consider your typical points owner who purchased the equivelant of one week has his/her ownership that is spread out over all the resorts that have trust ownership. A lot smaller percent than a one week deeded owner.

While I agree, DClub exchanges into the resort should fall behind deeded owners during room placement, they should be given equal placement status if they have a consecutive week reservation.

I consider it, rewarding a loyal guest.

 

[SueDonJ]

We really will have to agree to disagree - I think it's completely unfair that DC Trust Members are not considered on par with Weeks Owners. If there isn't a way for the resort personnel to differentiate between DC Trust and Exchange Members, which it appears there isn't, then all DC Members should be considered equal to Weeks Owners.

I really hope that as the program develops more of the resorts will adopt a fairer Priority Placement system, the one that also uses a rotational system so that the same "special" owners aren't practically guaranteed to be placed into the best units for every stay. I've always said it's unfair that at certain resorts single Weeks owners don't ever get a chance to be placed into the "best" units because multi-Week owners are always placed ahead of them. Well, now I think that unfairness is being extended to DC Members, especially Trust Members. There has to be a better way so that certain owners/members aren't made to feel like they're not as important at the resorts. Quite honestly, I'm not in favor of the resort personnel encouraging the "entitlement behavior" that it seems too many owners/members have already adopted.

 

[dioxide45]

People reserving with legacy points are still exchanging in to a resort that they do not own. I don't see how they should be on par with weeks based owners by default. MVCI needs to find a better way to handle this. Though I think outside of TUG, there probably is very little issue. We seem to blow this issue up far more than it really needs to be.

 

[rpgriego]

People reserving with legacy points are still exchanging in to a resort that they do not own. I don't see how they should be on par with weeks based owners by default. MVCI needs to find a better way to handle this. Though I think outside of TUG, there probably is very little issue. We seem to blow this issue up far more than it really needs to be.

This site blows-up EVERY issue, but by doing so we all share, learn and come up with some great guidance. Not to mention some great system work arounds. Unfortunately, we are not HOA board members to truly effect change.

That said, does anyone know the answer to the following...

DClub point owners pay a maintenance fee based on each point. Then use those points to book room nights at participating resorts. Do the resorts then get paid a nightly maintenance fee by the DClub?

 

[fluke]

Do the resorts then get paid a nightly maintenance fee by the DClub?

Every week placed into the trust has it's mfs paid for by the trust since the trust "owns" the week. This of course is really paid for by the trust owners via the trust point mfs. Those weeks placed into the exchange inventory of the DC by legacy owners has already had the mfs paid.

 

[rpgriego]

Every week placed into the trust has it's mfs paid for by the trust since the trust "owns" the week. This of course is really paid for by the trust owners via the trust point mfs. Those weeks placed into the exchange inventory of the DC by legacy owners has already had the mfs paid.

Let me try this question...
How do the MVC resorts share in DClub point MFs?

 

[SueDonJ]

Let me try this question...
How do the MVC resorts share in DClub point MFs?

The way that TUGger fluke explained - think of the Trust as the Owner of the Weeks conveyed to it. The annual MF's for those conveyed Weeks are paid by the Trust, with the funds collected through the Trust Members' MF's.

Obviously that's a simplification and we don't know if the Trust actually receives invoices from the individual resorts or if MVW accounts for all the transactions on paper or if some other set-up is at play. But definitely, the MF's for the Weeks conveyed to the DC Trust are the responsibility of the Trustee and indirectly, the Trust Members.

 

[Kepeli]

I have been investigating this whole issue myself over the past week as I prepare to make Ko Olina reservations for next summer. Being Premier member and multiple week owner at Ko Olina, I am getting ready to make 13 month reservations for a 2 week stay. I'll be using 2 rooms for 2 weeks consecutively.

The first room will be consecutive legacy weeks. For the second room, I have been debating using a 7-10 night window of points, acquired by converting 2 ski weeks at Timber lodge, followed by a regular "week" stay. The thought being that I could have some flexibility up front with a 7-10 night points stay, in order to have better flight flexibility since I'll be trying to use some frequent flier miles for some of our tickets. I could then cancel 1-3 of the nights without having them placed in penalty box, if I need to fly out on Tuesday or Wednesday instead of Friday.

I spoke with one of the ladies, who does the room assignments at Ko Olina. She stated that Destination points reservations are placed at the same room priority level at Ko Olina as single week owners, but below multiple week owners such as me. She also stated that if I had a reservation combining a week and points, that she would know I was an owner, and therefore would be placed at multiple week owner priority.

However, I believe that she stated that if my reservation was entirely points, I would be placed at priority level of other points reservations/single week owners, and therefore lower priority level than normal for me. ( I do need to double check this last statement, as now I am questioning myself).

She also stated that each resort does set its own policy for how points owners are prioritized for room assignments.

I'll try to update this if I call her back.

 

[rpgriego]

I have been investigating this whole issue myself over the past week as I prepare to make Ko Olina reservations for next summer. Being Premier member and multiple week owner at Ko Olina, I am getting ready to make 13 month reservations for a 2 week stay. I'll be using 2 rooms for 2 weeks consecutively.

The first room will be consecutive legacy weeks. For the second room, I have been debating using a 7-10 night window of points, acquired by converting 2 ski weeks at Timber lodge, followed by a regular "week" stay. The thought being that I could have some flexibility up front with a 7-10 night points stay, in order to have better flight flexibility since I'll be trying to use some frequent flier miles for some of our tickets. I could then cancel 1-3 of the nights without having them placed in penalty box, if I need to fly out on Tuesday or Wednesday instead of Friday.

I spoke with one of the ladies, who does the room assignments at Ko Olina. She stated that Destination points reservations are placed at the same room priority level at Ko Olina as single week owners, but below multiple week owners such as me. She also stated that if I had a reservation combining a week and points, that she would know I was an owner, and therefore would be placed at multiple week owner priority.

However, I believe that she stated that if my reservation was entirely points, I would be placed at priority level of other points reservations/single week owners, and therefore lower priority level than normal for me. ( I do need to double check this last statement, as now I am questioning myself).

She also stated that each resort does set its own policy for how points owners are prioritized for room assignments.

I'll try to update this if I call her back.

Since your being flexible and using both owned and DClub points wouldn't it save points to get duplicate reservations as follows:

Check-In on Sunday using owned KO week
Add five additional nights at the Sunday through Thursday rate

12 nights total for each room

And don't forget to try the: Last Minute Reservations Points Discount benefit.

 

[FractionalTraveler]

People reserving with legacy points are still exchanging in to a resort that they do not own. I don't see how they should be on par with weeks based owners by default. MVCI needs to find a better way to handle this. Though I think outside of TUG, there probably is very little issue. We seem to blow this issue up far more than it really needs to be.

I agree with your comments regarding legacy point exchangers but I still think that pure Trust point owners/reservations should be on par with weeks based owners when it comes to villa room assignment priority.

I also agree this issue is currently only impacting a small number of system super users who have taken extensive advanage of the system over the last 3 years but just wait another 3-5 years when the Trust ownership swells even higher.

The bigger issue I wanted to communicate was geared towards new owners who will be 100% trust points owners and folks who post on this board considering to add trust points to their ownership. I wanted to relay this through my experiences to date.

I am sure salespersons are trying to sell the points hard by saying they have full access to the trust units with priority and how legacy owners will not have access to new construction or units in the Trust. etc, etc, etc......

Of course these comments are not accurate and present misleading statements to potential new and existing customers.

Flexibility in usage YES. Priority in villa assignments, not so much really.

Another expeience I would like to communicate is my status with MVCI "Premier Plus". Just like my MR status PLAT Premier, I was expecting that properties recognize my status and use it to prioritize my requests.

Truth is, that hasn't amounted to anything much other than a note on my reservations (I guess to make me feel good about how much money I have spent with Marriott). I'm not even sure MVCI properties see that status or get it confusted with my MR status. I can see how all this can be confusing to many guests and employees alike.

I hope some of this information has been helpful to those who visit this site. Its only year 3 of DC and certainly the only constant going forward is change.

FT

 

[MALC9990]

So now I'll be really controversial. Perhaps the best way forward and fairest would be to do away with all priority for unit allocation all together. No special priority for multi week owners staying at their home resort and no priority for anyone.

Allocations would then be made the day before check in based on what units would come free (this is probably what they do anyway since in peak season that would be the only available units) and taking into consideration the preference requests submitted by those who would be checking in the next day.

All my home resorts work this way. At Son Antem we are asked to give three preferences of where we would like to be located and if we have a 2 bed unit which of the 2 types we would prefer. All the villas are located around one of the golf courses and numbered in 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800 series numbers - we are permitted 3 choices of which number series we would like but not a number within a series - so I might select 700, 500 and 800 as my three preferences in that order. I might also ask for a 2 bed unit with a master suite downstairs - especially if we have guests since that gives the guest the upper floor as a more private accommodation. What we actually get depends on what is freed up on the day we check in. If no units in the 700 number series vacate on the day I check in then my request for a priority for a 700 series unit is not going to be met.

Every year I hear owners moaning that they did not get their favourite villa or location but every year I hear the GM stress in his reports and presentations that asking for a specific unit really cannot work since they cannot and will not keep a unit empty just so someone can check in to their specific requested unit.

Considering how difficult it must be with a weeks only system with 3 or perhaps 4 days for check-in, now consider how difficult it will become as weeks get more broken up with DC point reservations starting on any day of the week for as little as 1 night and up-wards from there.

In October we have 6 nights booked at Crystal Shores using DC points and we check in on a Wednesday. I guess the resort will send me an email asking for my preferences but what I get will depend wholly on what is available within my reservation. Since I reserved a 2 bed unit with Gulf Coast View - I would expect to get that but how high or low in the building I will be, will really depend on what is free on the day I check in.

The same situation with the follow on reservation in Frenchman's Cove - we check in on a Tuesday on DC points for 13 nights - again where we will be located will be dependant very much on what units are free on the day we check in.

 

[SueDonJ]

So now I'll be really controversial. Perhaps the best way forward and fairest would be to do away with all priority for unit allocation all together. No special priority for multi week owners staying at their home resort and no priority for anyone. ...

I'm all for it if they can't get their acts together to develop a network-wide Priority Placement system that meets somewhere in the middle - not treating multi-Week Owners as if they deserve The Best Of The Best for every stay but at the other extreme not giving any priority to any Owners/Members. The simplest way to do that is to streamline the Priority Placement hierarchy to include DC Members as owners of a sort and take into consideration multi-Week and Premier/Plus status, while also implementing a rotational system.

We just got back from two weeks at SurfWatch in our owned OceanVista and OceanSide units. The first week we were placed on the top floor of the OV building, the second on the second floor of an OS building. That follows the statement that's published in the GM's newsletter, that Owners will be rotated among the "best" and "worst" units on each successive stay (and it follows our historical usage.) Obviously we had to change units because we own different views but from what I understand they also don't guarantee that if you own multi-Weeks with the same view, you'll be allowed to stay in the same unit for consecutive weeks.

That works for me as the most fair way to implement placement IF their intent is to "reward" ownership status but also not restrict the "best" units to only owners with status. It will be even more fair if DC Members are integrated to be Owners of a sort. But I get the feeling that like you say, adopting the system across the network would be too "controversial" and there are many owners/members who wouldn't be happy with it at all.

For what it's worth, this TUG conversation is practically useless. (But that's never stopped me! ) I've talked with my resorts' GM's and several MVC execs about all this over the years, and I'm left with the distinct impression that at the executive level they don't care enough about it to issue directives to each resort (despite the fact that the execs have insisted that the rotational system enforced at my resorts is supposed to be implemented network-wide.)

 

[MALC9990]

In all my 10 years as an owner with MVCI, I have never been asked to move units in the middle of a multi week stay anywhere even when on an II exchange for a multi-week stay. We have changed units when there has been a problem that forced us to move as earlier this year in Phuket Beach Club but that was a whole different story.

Even when we share weeks with friends who also own at Phuket Beach Club where we reserve 2 weeks and they then reserve the next two weeks - we always stay in the same unit for the four weeks - we just swap bedrooms at the halfway point.

This may change in Sept when we are at Harbour Point for 2 weeks on an II exchange and I believe these are fixed week units so we may have to relocate at the halfway point. The logistics will be a pain especially for the refrigerator contents.

 

[bazzap]

In all my 10 years as an owner with MVCI, I have never been asked to move units in the middle of a multi week stay anywhere even when on an II exchange for a multi-week stay. We have changed units when there has been a problem that forced us to move as earlier this year in Phuket Beach Club but that was a whole different story.

Even when we share weeks with friends who also own at Phuket Beach Club where we reserve 2 weeks and they then reserve the next two weeks - we always stay in the same unit for the four weeks - we just swap bedrooms at the halfway point.

This may change in Sept when we are at Harbour Point for 2 weeks on an II exchange and I believe these are fixed week units so we may have to relocate at the halfway point. The logistics will be a pain especially for the refrigerator contents.

Similarly, we have never been asked to change units mid way through a multi week stay.
Many years ago, it had been suggested that during our first 5 week home resort stay at St Kitts we might have to check out at 10am every week and check back in to a different unit at 4pm every week - thank goodness this never happened!!!
Hopefully, you will not have to change or if you really do they will allow you to stay in the first villa until the second one becomes available. If not, I do hope they have a good solution for fridge content transfer...etc.

 

[SueDonJ]

In all my 10 years as an owner with MVCI, I have never been asked to move units in the middle of a multi week stay anywhere even when on an II exchange for a multi-week stay. We have changed units when there has been a problem that forced us to move as earlier this year in Phuket Beach Club but that was a whole different story.

Even when we share weeks with friends who also own at Phuket Beach Club where we reserve 2 weeks and they then reserve the next two weeks - we always stay in the same unit for the four weeks - we just swap bedrooms at the halfway point.

This may change in Sept when we are at Harbour Point for 2 weeks on an II exchange and I believe these are fixed week units so we may have to relocate at the halfway point. The logistics will be a pain especially for the refrigerator contents.

All the resorts on Hilton Head use this system where if you're moving from one unit/resort to another, they let you stay in the first unit beyond the usual check-out time until the second is ready, at which time they call you to let you know it's time to go. It really makes it easier all around but especially for the food transfer - no worries about Bell Services or cold food storage.

 

[dioxide45]

That follows the statement that's published in the GM's newsletter, that Owners will be rotated among the "best" and "worst" units on each successive stay (and it follows our historical usage.)

So who gets the more average middle of the road units. If one year you get the best, the next one of the worst where does that leave the average stuff?

 

[dioxide45]

In all my 10 years as an owner with MVCI, I have never been asked to move units in the middle of a multi week stay anywhere even when on an II exchange for a multi-week stay. We have changed units when there has been a problem that forced us to move as earlier this year in Phuket Beach Club but that was a whole different story.

Even when we share weeks with friends who also own at Phuket Beach Club where we reserve 2 weeks and they then reserve the next two weeks - we always stay in the same unit for the four weeks - we just swap bedrooms at the halfway point.

This may change in Sept when we are at Harbour Point for 2 weeks on an II exchange and I believe these are fixed week units so we may have to relocate at the halfway point. The logistics will be a pain especially for the refrigerator contents.

I think a lot depends on what views you own and if there are different views at the resort. I can understand the situation Susan was in. She was staying on their owned week. If the resort kept them in the Ocean Vista view the second week, then another owner would have to be downgraded from the view that they own. It becomes a lot more troublesome if owner occupancy is high.

With II exchanges there is a lot more flexibility, if there are other II exchanges staying the same week, they can move them back and forth between confirmed units. I can understand the resort keeping you in the view you purchased. If people caught on that they would not make you move units, people would buy an ocean front and a garden view and then book two consecutive weeks the first in ocean front hoping to stay in the ocean front unit for both weeks.

 

[dioxide45]

Wouldn't they be better to just use ownership status in DC to prioritize priority placement. Do as follows.

1. Put Premier Plus Owners on par with Multi Week owners staying on their owned week.
2. Put Premier Owners on par with single week owners staying on their owned week.
3. Put Standard Owners on par with MVCI owners exchanging in.

Seems an equitable way to do it?

 

[Aviator621]

I personally think it is unreasonable to have owners priority at ALL Marriott resorts solely because the Trust has a fractional ownership in each. I still see the Trust Points as an overlay on an existing system that had made promises and expectations that should be honored, including priority of room assignment for those that bought there. While I would be ok with trust priority over exchangers, I can't see the fairness in placing them on par or above people who own in whole at the resort. If I found out that I do not get my request in favor of someone who used trust points for three days of stay, I would be less than happy.

 

[SueDonJ]

So who gets the more average middle of the road units. If one year you get the best, the next one of the worst where does that leave the average stuff?

You'd think with as many words as I use it would be easier for me to get my points across, right? Sorry about that ...

I think the intent with the rotational system is that no owners are ever guaranteed to be placed in the "best" units for every single one of their stays. The intent of the wording they use is to prepare all owners for the possibility that they could be placed in any unit (within their view category, of course,) that their status will count for some stays but not others. Eventually, it should shake out that every owner gets placed in any of the units that are within their owned unit type/view - best, worst and everything in-between.

Next year if I stay another two owned Weeks at SurfWatch, based on the pattern that's developed for my usage I'll expect a second or third floor unit in the OV building and a fifth (highest) floor unit in one of the OS buildings.

SurfWatch is a relatively small resort; maybe that's why it's easy enough for them to implement this system. Whenever we get into this discussion I always think of NCV, a large resort with only a few buildings having the best view of the ocean, a too-long Plat season, and a policy of multi-Weeks Owners always being placed into those "best" units during the high-demand periods. I'd be complaining all over creation if I was one of those single-Week Owners, but folks just seem resigned to that being the way it is. It happens at other resorts, too, not just NCV. It's unfair IMO, the same way it's unfair that DC Members aren't being integrated at all of the resorts.

 

[SueDonJ]

Wouldn't they be better to just use ownership status in DC to prioritize priority placement. Do as follows.

1. Put Premier Plus Owners on par with Multi Week owners staying on their owned week.
2. Put Premier Owners on par with single week owners staying on their owned week.
3. Put Standard Owners on par with MVCI owners exchanging in.

Seems an equitable way to do it?

Works for me, but along with the rotational system.

 

[dioxide45]

Works for me, but along with the rotational system.

There is no need for the rotational system. The Premier Plus owners along with multi week owners staying on their week always get the premium units. As soon as they rotate them down and put a standard owner in the premium unit, then my hierarchy goes out the window.

 

[SueDonJ]

There is no need for the rotational system. The Premier Plus owners along with multi week owners staying on their week always get the premium units. As soon as they rotate them down and put a standard owner in the premium unit, then my hierarchy goes out the window.

[deleted] What a mess! Let me think on this ...

[eta] Okay. I like the way you integrated DC Members, simply - Premier Plat DC = Multi-Week Owners, Premier DC = Single Week Owners, Standard DC = MVC Owners exchanging in. That works for me to settle the question of what a Priority list that integrates DC Members could look like if published.

I understand what you're saying about the rotational system negating any Priority Placement but I still think that to be fair to all Owners/Members it has to be employed during the highest-demand periods, which is when lower-tier Owners/Members won't stand a chance at good unit placements if Multi-Week Owners/DC Members are always given priority. For example, the rotational system can be implemented for the eight-ten highest Owner/Member usage periods at NCV, to give those lower-tier Owners/Members a fighting chance at least every other year. But for all the other time periods when Owners/Members aren't nearly as much an overwhelming majority of guests onsite, rotation isn't as necessary because Owners/Members can be placed ahead of the non-Owners/Members.

 

[SueDonJ]

I think a lot depends on what views you own and if there are different views at the resort. I can understand the situation Susan was in. She was staying on their owned week. If the resort kept them in the Ocean Vista view the second week, then another owner would have to be downgraded from the view that they own. It becomes a lot more troublesome if owner occupancy is high.

With II exchanges there is a lot more flexibility, if there are other II exchanges staying the same week, they can move them back and forth between confirmed units. I can understand the resort keeping you in the view you purchased. If people caught on that they would not make you move units, people would buy an ocean front and a garden view and then book two consecutive weeks the first in ocean front hoping to stay in the ocean front unit for both weeks.

Missed this earlier - I'd never advocate Owners/DC Members using their ownerships being placed into anything except what they own (Weeks) or have reserved (Points.) All of this presupposes that we're talking about the best, worst and in-between within view categories.

I'm guessing that MALC and bazzap were surprised by my comment that multi-Week Owners using their own (same unit/view category) Weeks aren't guaranteed to be able to stay in the same unit during a multi-week stay. Based on TUG reports it seems most resorts will practically guarantee it whenever possible - SurfWatch doesn't, as far as I've been told, again because of the rotational policy.