[2012] "Should My Week(s) Be Enrolled?"

[m61376]

I still think Marriott is in a losing battle if they don't, at some time, set up a program to let resale buyers who purchased their weeks after the deadline into the plan. I read somewhere on literature from Marriott that 136,000 weeks have joined...that means some 260,000 weeks are 'outside'. They wont get them all. Adding to that is the fact at some time all DC member weeks will probably be sold and new owners automatically put on the outside. Marriott can't win this IMO with their existing stance.

Even so, I've surprised myself and just joined but still skeptical about it all, even at my PP level. So far I haven't seen any PP deal I'd gift Marriott that many DC points for. Time will tell. When I asked my rep if the PP qualification level will increase she said I'd be 'grandfathered' with the PP level forever...I asked her to check that and she came back to say her super told her the levels will go up in January for everyone, but no increase in fees.. They still don't know their own product.

Brian

Couldn't resist the fee savings ? I am sure for you they will be substantial, and cover your enrollment within the first year. Hopefully you will continue to get the same great trades using your weeks as always, and the DC membership will be great for you, although not in the way that Marriott intended.

I am confused (no surprise there )- are there 400,000 weeks, or 400,000 owners total? Anyway, if it is weeks, then over a third are enrolled at this point, and I am guessing within the next month the number will approach 40%. Isn't that double the initial projection, which I though was a 20% legacy week enrollment. If that's the case, then it will be many years before the natural turnover will have a dramatic impact, although I agree with you that at some point Marriott is going to have to allow resale weeks in. My guess is they will phase them in akin to Starwood's system of requalification; we're already seeing an inkling of that with Marriott direct purchased resale weeks, which Puck posted about in another thread.

I think the next hurdle they will have to deal with are resale points, and how they will be treated. I know all the other point programs have some system in place for resales, but I'm not sure of their exact models.

Although I share your sentiments about the DC program in general, I too will join, basically for two reasons- one, to protect my investment, such as it is; while I don't view it as a gift, I do think Marriott is offering resale owners an opportunity to be a full member of the club, so to speak, and if the program rules change down the road (like Marriott handling Marriott to Marriott week exchanges internally or the Marriott preference in II only applying to enrolled legacy weeks), it is better to be on the inside than the outside looking in. I wonder if at some point Marriott will close the door to all resale weeks (including the ones prior to June, 2010) at least for a period of time before, as you suggest, they ultimately reopen it- which I suspect will only be with buying a boatload of points. Secondly, while I don't envision myself buying points, I can see the benefit to using points on occasion, and they can be a great supplement to ownership; I agree with Greg's posts that the point rental is a big plus of the program, and one that I can foresee using.

Admittedly, I keep on putting off joining though since I really dislike the program. Instead of equalizing the field, so to speak, I think Marriott merely created a new subset of winners and losers. But, like most things in life, it is what it is, and we can only deal with the program as is, since we're unlikely to have any major impact on future machinations. The worst thing we can do is let feelings of perceived inequities interfere with enjoyment of our vacations.

 

[SueDonJ]

... When I asked my rep if the PP qualification level will increase she said I'd be 'grandfathered' with the PP level forever...I asked her to check that and she came back to say her super told her the levels will go up in January for everyone, but no increase in fees.. They still don't know their own product.

Brian

A HUGE caution here ...

I would be ecstatic if what your rep said is true, that whatever Member status you hold now will be grandfathered if/when the requirements change. But that idea is just not supported by the governing docs AT ALL. The docs say in several places, in no uncertain terms, that DC status is subject to change because it is based on a percentage of the aggregate total of DC Points in the program. They've even written provisions that stipulate what happens if/when the numbers supporting status levels change and you no longer have enough points to hold your status. (You retain the current status only through the end of the Use Year following the year in which the requirements are changed.)

Like I said, ecstatic. It truly would be a gift if Marriott were to grandfather status if/when requirements change. But NOTHING supports it - the docs actually refute it, and there's been no official statement from Marriott that the docs have been revised.

Consider the source of this "grandfathering" talk - in both cases reported to TUG it's come from the VOA's manning the front line phones. We all know they've been wrong before. PLEASE don't base your decision on whether to enroll or not on an expectation that your Member status at enrollment will never change. All the signs say differently. Maybe, highly doubtful but maybe, there's a slim outside chance that Marriott will surprise us and give us something for nothing despite warning us that they'll be more likely to take something away ... but I wouldn't count on it. I'll be genuinely shocked if it happens.

 

[EKniager]

Okay, I read Sue's excellent overview and I am still... in limbo. We own two weeks: Platinum Aruba Surf Club (bought direct from Marriott) and Harbour Point (resale in 2011). If I understand this correctly, if we want to exchange the HHI week we must continue being a member of II or RCI. No problem, we have 3 years remaining on a five year membership. So... if we pay the $595 and the annual $165 and join before the deadline we will gain an additional exchange functionality, i.e., by having legacy points. On a cost basis, the $165 will be offset by the savings on the old lockoff and exchange fees ($80+$129+$129) on years when we lockoff and exchange one or both halves. Assuming that net-nets out as a push over time, essentially we are paying $595 for added flexibility, right?

Is the $595 our only downside?

 

[windje2000]

I still think Marriott is in a losing battle if they don't, at some time, set up a program to let resale buyers who purchased their weeks after the deadline into the plan. I read somewhere on literature from Marriott that 136,000 weeks have joined...that means some 260,000 weeks are 'outside'. They wont get them all. Adding to that is the fact at some time all DC member weeks will probably be sold and new owners automatically put on the outside. Marriott can't win this IMO with their existing stance.

Even so, I've surprised myself and just joined but still skeptical about it all, even at my PP level. So far I haven't seen any PP deal I'd gift Marriott that many DC points for. Time will tell. When I asked my rep if the PP qualification level will increase she said I'd be 'grandfathered' with the PP level forever...I asked her to check that and she came back to say her super told her the levels will go up in January for everyone, but no increase in fees.. They still don't know their own product.

Brian

Hi Brian

Will VAC eventually let resales in? Sure, for a price. If they don't let resales join, the customer population of DClub is an actuarially estimable wasting asset. That's not consistent with the whole point of creating the exchange system. Why would they bother, if they let the membership base wither away.

All VAC actions point to eventually controlling the occupancy exchange and extracting fees for that service.

My guess is that the weeks population of DClub is probably skewed to higher point value more attractive weeks. Those weeks that remain unenrolled are probably the opposite.

Those less attractive weeks will remain readily available in II. So eventually you will have a choice between 'first class' and 'coach' exchange systems. There's fees for first class. Discounted seats available until June 14.

 

[tjkahn]

Okay, I read Sue's excellent overview and I am still... in limbo. We own two weeks: Platinum Aruba Surf Club (bought direct from Marriott) and Harbour Point (resale in 2011). If I understand this correctly, if we want to exchange the HHI week we must continue being a member of II or RCI. No problem, we have 3 years remaining on a five year membership. So... if we pay the $595 and the annual $165 and join before the deadline we will gain an additional exchange functionality, i.e., by having legacy points. On a cost basis, the $165 will be offset by the savings on the old lockoff and exchange fees ($80+$129+$129) on years when we lockoff and exchange one or both halves. Assuming that net-nets out as a push over time, essentially we are paying $595 for added flexibility, right?

Is the $595 our only downside?

I think whatever you think of the program, if you have a lock-off and trade it's a no-brainer. The 800 bonus points alone mean you're almost at break even right off the bat. I've been doing some searching for the last couple of days with the 800 points - I have yet to find a resort or season that isn't available (granted at high season you're not getting more than a day or two), but with an already active market for one-time use rental points at ~$.50 each, the 800 points should be easy to use. Or you could of course use the points to extend a week. I was also surprised to learn that the $165 is not collected until the end of this year too, so in some respects the first 8 months or so are free.

 

[EKniager]

I think whatever you think of the program, if you have a lock-off and trade it's a no-brainer. The 800 bonus points alone mean you're almost at break even right off the bat. I've been doing some searching for the last couple of days with the 800 points - I have yet to find a resort or season that isn't available (granted at high season you're not getting more than a day or two), but with an already active market for one-time use rental points at ~$.50 each, the 800 points should be easy to use. Or you could of course use the points to extend a week. I was also surprised to learn that the $165 is not collected until the end of this year too, so in some respects the first 8 months or so are free.

Just reviewed it with my wife and I'm not sure that is true. Because of the low point allocation for Aruba we might just be better off renting the unit in years when when don't plan on going there.

Did a couple of what-if scenarios using points and we got less than our usual II weeks exchanges. And, I am not sure we will use (benefit from) <7 day stays. Why use 80% of our points for an exchange that our lockoff has secured in the past?

 

[SueDonJ]

Just reviewed it with my wife and I'm not sure that is true. Because of the low point allocation for Aruba we might just be better off renting the unit in years when when don't plan on going there.

Did a couple of what-if scenarios using points and we got less than our usual II weeks exchanges. And, I am not sure we will use (benefit from) <7 day stays. Why use 80% of our points for an exchange that our lockoff has secured in the past?

I think TUGger tjkahn's point to you isn't that you should convert your enrolled Aruba week and use those DC Points for stays, because you're correct - it's true that the overwhelming majority of Aruba Week allocations are so low that they're simply not conducive to annual conversions to DC Points for use in the DC Exchange system. I think his (her? sorry tj) point is that the 800 Bonus Points could offset your $595 enrollment fee depending on how you use them. If you enroll you will be able to take advantage of an established DC Points rental market, and transfer points from another DC Member if the 800 Points are not enough for a single trip.

But your original thought is still a good one, that there may be some cost-savings for you if you enroll your Aruba Week and continue to use it as you've been doing. Currently, the fees in each system are such that your $165 annual DC Club Dues would be less than the ($80+$129+$129) annual fees you're paying now to lock-off your unit and exchange both sides. You will still be able to do those transactions in your new/corporate II account.

For you I'd say that enrollment of that one Week will make sense if you lock-off and exchange it on a fairly often basis, and depending on how often you'll be doing exchanges with your un-enrolled Week. Sure, like you say for the next three years your RCI/II account (not sure which you have now?) is covered, but what will happen after that? Will you always keep that separate individual account or will you restrict your un-enrolled Week usage to home resort stays and/or private exchange/rental transactions? If you let that individual account expire and plan on only doing II exchanges with your Aruba Week, I'd say enroll and don't look back. But if you want to be able to exchange both Weeks through II/RCI, you have some serious math to do to figure out what would make the DC enrollment of only one Week an attractive enough option.

 

[m61376]

Just reviewed it with my wife and I'm not sure that is true. Because of the low point allocation for Aruba we might just be better off renting the unit in years when when don't plan on going there.

Did a couple of what-if scenarios using points and we got less than our usual II weeks exchanges. And, I am not sure we will use (benefit from) <7 day stays. Why use 80% of our points for an exchange that our lockoff has secured in the past?

I think most owners in Aruba and at some of the other resorts where the allocations were lower than expected (based on Marriott's objective valuation as reflected in the rental rates Marriott itself charges, and based on the timeshare rental market) are less likely to exchange for points unless they simply want the convenience and don't want to be bothered, and are willing to accept that the flexibility comes at a significant price.

That said, while I agree that exchanging for points is, in most cases, a waste for you, if you lock-off/exchange enough to cover your annual $165 fee, the ability to rent points from others may (or may not) be something worth considering, and may present a good value for you.

I think direct purchasers have less of an issue with "what ifs" down the road, since their enrollment will always be welcome, although at a significantly higher price. I am not sure if the door will always be open for pre-6/10 resale weeks.

 

[tjkahn]

I think his (her? sorry tj) point is that the 800 Bonus Points could offset your $595 enrollment fee depending on how you use them.

His (Todd)

I'm not diminishing the importance of $595 to anyone - I certainly didn't enjoy parting with it. But:

- No lockoff fees
- No II membership fee
- No internal exchange fee

Means it's PROBABLE a lock-off owner will break even at some point. Then add in:

- Insurance (what IF II exchanges really do dry up)
- An already easy to find market (thanks to TUG) to rent points if your unit is short
- 800 "free" points, which have a value of ~$400 on the rental market...I'm sure I will use mine for a weekend getaway or an extension of a trip next year. Worst comes to worse, I'll rent them and recoup something, so I'm not sure $595 is the true net cost of enrollment, because those 800 points are worth SOMETHING.

It became an easy choice for someone who owns a developer purchased lock-off unit. Granted, I'm fortunate that my unit was allocated a pretty fair amount of DC points, but frankly even if I never trade for DC points, I feel like enrolling was the only sensible choice.

 

[SueDonJ]

... I think his (her? sorry tj) point is that the 800 Bonus Points could offset ...

His (Todd) ...

Hi Todd, nicetomeetcha.

 

[dioxide45]

His (Todd)800 "free" points, which have a value of ~$400 on the rental market...I'm sure I will use mine for a weekend getaway or an extension of a trip next year. Worst comes to worse, I'll rent them and recoup something, so I'm not sure $595 is the true net cost of enrollment, because those 800 points are worth SOMETHING.

I am having a very hard time attaching a cash value to those 800 PlusPoints we got from enrollment. We were able to add two nights at Marco Island at the end of the month. Those two nights cost ~$650 on Marriott.com. However, I would never pay $650 to stay there for two nights. There are only two of us but we have a 2BR unit plus if I needed the two and had to pay cash I would be staying at the Courtyard or Fairfield in off of I75 for two nights or just paying cash for two extra nights in Orlando instead.

So while they have a value of $650 on Marriott.com, their real value is hard to determine. For some, they may cost them money because they plan a vacation to use them along with a timeshare stay and have the extra costs of another vacation.:hysterical:

 

[MOXJO7282]

I'm probably enrolling my qualifying weeks even though I currently never trade or lock-off just for the potential to do it in the future and to avoid the price increase.

I figure the free 800 points has a value that offsets the cost somewhat.

 

[tjkahn]

So while they have a value of $650 on Marriott.com, their real value is hard to determine. For some, they may cost them money because they plan a vacation to use them along with a timeshare stay and have the extra costs of another vacation.:hysterical:

Very true, I may take a weekend away that I wouldn't have otherwise taken, and that might cost me plane tickets, gas, etc. From what I can see so far, there is a ton of availability for DC points reservations for the next 10 months.

I understand your point, particularly that you wouldn't pay $650 for two nights in Orlando. But it would save you the two nights at the Fairfield (~$200?), or, like I said, if the going rate for point rentals is $.50/point, even if you took $.40, and rented/sold them for $320, your still down to $275 net cost. So even if you claim the 800 points are something you don't need, there is a way to monetize their value and offset the $595.

If your enrollment costs are more than $595, it's another discussion and there is a lot more variability. if today was June 15, I would not pay $2,495. My guess is if they have trouble getting enough enrolled weeks, there will be special offers again to join, but to be certain I think enrolling before June 14 is a wise decision.

 

[vail]

Very true, I may take a weekend away that I wouldn't have otherwise taken, and that might cost me plane tickets, gas, etc. From what I can see so far, there is a ton of availability for DC points reservations for the next 10 months.

I understand your point, particularly that you wouldn't pay $650 for two nights in Orlando. But it would save you the two nights at the Fairfield (~$200?), or, like I said, if the going rate for point rentals is $.50/point, even if you took $.40, and rented/sold them for $320, your still down to $275 net cost. So even if you claim the 800 points are something you don't need, there is a way to monetize their value and offset the $595.

If your enrollment costs are more than $595, it's another discussion and there is a lot more variability. if today was June 15, I would not pay $2,495. My guess is if they have trouble getting enough enrolled weeks, there will be special offers again to join, but to be certain I think enrolling before June 14 is a wise decision.

I joined.
It was a no brainer--here is my scenario and logic.
I can rent out my week for $1400 next year.
I receive 800 points for joining so I can use points to book that same week and I only need 1100 additional points.
I can rent those points for $550 or so so my total is that plus the $595 to join which is less than the $1400 I receive and will still have the use of that week and be a memeber of the DC.
Am I missing something?

 

[dioxide45]

I joined.
It was a no brainer--here is my scenario and logic.
I can rent out my week for $1400 next year.
I receive 800 points for joining so I can use points to book that same week and I only need 1100 additional points.
I can rent those points for $550 or so so my total is that plus the $595 to join which is less than the $1400 I receive and will still have the use of that week and be a memeber of the DC.
Am I missing something?

I think the only way you can get $550 in renting the PlusPoints is if you put them up for rent right now. I have seen a few listings on GregTs rental site from people trying to unload soon to be expiring PlusPoints, I didn't see any takers on those. You need to give people a long travel period to look at.

 

[EKniager]

But if you want to be able to exchange both Weeks through II/RCI, you have some serious math to do to figure out what would make the DC enrollment of only one Week an attractive enough option.

I think it is probably safe to assume we will split most years and exchange at least one of the halves. Regardless of what we do with the HHI resale week, we probably should enroll the Aruba week. Not sure we will ever need or want to trade for points but the $595 minus the 800 gift points is not as ugly as it could be.

My wife just wants me to guarantee her that we will continue to be able to trade the unit as a whole or split units as we always have.

 

[vail]

I think the only way you can get $550 in renting the PlusPoints is if you put them up for rent right now. I have seen a few listings on GregTs rental site from people trying to unload soon to be expiring PlusPoints, I didn't see any takers on those. You need to give people a long travel period to look at.

I am not selling the points--I am purchasing them to use to rent the week I want.
Since I receive 800 points for enrolling, I am short 1100 points to choose the same week I will rent to someone else.
From what you write it should be easy to acquire those 1100 points for $550.
So in fact I end up paying the $595 to join and $550 for the points that I am short and the total cost is $1145.
This means after I rent my unit out I am $255 to the plus and I get to join DC.
If I do not join and I just use my unit--I do not receive the $255 nor enrollment in the DC.
This shows that some units the points are just too low.

 

[dioxide45]

My wife just wants me to guarantee her that we will continue to be able to trade the unit as a whole or split units as we always have.

This is as guaranteed after enrollment as much as it was before enrollment. There is never a guaranty with trading. Being enrolled or not, doesn't change anything here. You retain the same usage rights you had before, you just add the DC option and potentially save on fees.

 

[EKniager]

This is as guaranteed after enrollment as much as it was before enrollment. There is never a guaranty with trading. Being enrolled or not, doesn't change anything here. You retain the same usage rights you had before, you just add the DC option and potentially save on fees.

Thanks.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. LOL, I meant the ability to utilize the same old exchange process, not necessarily our historical success rate. She understands that it's always dependent on the dynamics of the exchange market.

 

[SueDonJ]

Thanks.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. LOL, I meant the ability to utilize the same old exchange process, not necessarily our historical success rate. She understands that it's always dependent on the dynamics of the exchange market.

Whatever transactions you are able to do now in your individual II account, you will be able to do the exact same things in your new corporate account. Exchanges, AC's, XYZ's, phantom searches, Getaways, special offers, etc ...

The only differences are 1) that your new II account will have a different account number so that when you sign in to the website you will be asked to choose which account you want to use at the time; and 2) you don't pay annual or exchange fees in the new account.

Honestly. As crazy as it sounds, it's all true. Those of us who have enrolled were able to make the comparisons between our two accounts while the old was still open, and not one person reported that their accounts were showing differences.

 

[EKniager]

I surrendered.

It appears to be the financially prudent thing to do. (I think we also, get 5x MR points on the $595 as an additional offset to the expense.)

Does a 10 day processing period sound right? Now that the decision has been made, I am looking forward to exploring with this new capability.

 

[Old Hickory]

Whatever transactions you are able to do now in your individual II account, you will be able to do the exact same things in your new corporate account. Exchanges, AC's, XYZ's, phantom searches, Getaways, special offers, etc ...

The only differences are 1) that your new II account will have a different account number so that when you sign in to the website you will be asked to choose which account you want to use at the time; and 2) you don't pay annual or exchange fees in the new account.

But do you pay AC and XYZ fees? What about Getaways?

 

[tjkahn]

I surrendered.

It appears to be the financially prudent thing to do. (I think we also, get 5x MR points on the $595 as an additional offset to the expense.)

Does a 10 day processing period sound right? Now that the decision has been made, I am looking forward to exploring with this new capability.

1) you go get 5 points/dollar witht the black Marriott card, so there's 2,975 MR points

2) It took about a week for my points to show up. They showed me as a member right away, and I locked off my unit day 2 without any fees, but I didn't have the 800 points for about 5 business days.

3) I still don't have an II account (I let my old account expire knowing I'd be signing up for DC). Supposedly that takes 30 days. I can still do phantom searches using my old II account, even though it's expired.

 

[tjkahn]

But do you pay AC and XYZ fees? What about Getaways?

You pay for all of that as before. You also pay for non-marriott exchanges. But marriott to marriott are "free."

 

[David10225]

Two Questions

Thank you for the information. I was considering enrolling my one lonely Barony Beach week. I have two questions.

I currently have my normal summer reserved (July 2012). If I join now, can I turn in that week into points right away? The reason I'm asking is that my son is getting married in September and I would like to give him a week vacation for his honeymoon in September. I figure with the points, I would have a lot of flexibility,

Question two - is it permissible or easy to use points to reserve a room in the name of someone else (like my son?)

Thanks!