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[2012] good resale recommendation needed for trade

FionaS

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Follow on from my other thread, here is my need/intention:
1. No intention to go to home resort every year
2. Strong Trading power
3. reasonable MF
4. In case I cannot trade, I can rent the property out for or more than the MF
5. Maybe EOY to start with, since there is still lots to learn about TS

In the previous thread, a couple of properties got recommended with locks-off (i.e. Grande Vista, Grand Chateau, Shadow Ridge, Willow Ridge), and Platinum and 2 or 3 BRD are recommended. I need a little bit more guidance and experiences on this.

Also, at what price shall I buy in?

-------
Some other general exchange questions,
1. How long does it normally take exchange to happen? Does it take months?
2. What is my trading possibility with the above properties listed into summer Hawaii and winter ski resort?
3. What are the additional cost for trading (i.e. lock-off fee, II fee, trading fee, etc).

Thanks a lot!
 
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puckmanfl

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good evening

I vote 3 bedroom GV platinum.. I am guessing you can snag one of these for about $5K-$6K. MF's about $1300. Great traders. If you want summer Hawaii or ski week, use the whole 3 bedroom. If you give yourself a wide variety of dates..Lets say early June-mid august..you will get something every time. Same thing for ski weeks...put the whole 3 bedroom in and give mid jan-mid march dates and you will get something every time. You must deposit a year in advance...

if you want shoulder seasons, lock off create a 2 bedroom and studio and use both. When those kids come a GV will be nice to see southern mouse house..

Only negative with 3 bedroom GV is "rentals" just tons of rentals open in Orlando... but you can get Presidents week easily, I always have, although I have 13 month priority...

You might also consider HHI GO/Barony plat summer... a bit more expensive..guaranteed good rental, nice occupancy but non lock off!!! Good news here is that HHI summer will ALWAYS be in demand and awesome trader too!!!! MF's very reasonable..about $1200

just my 2 cents... you might do very well picking up a 2 bedroom Barony, 3 bedroom plat GV for about 20K total and have some nice chips in the game... cheaper than the 37K you were going to pay!!!
 

BocaBoy

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good evening

I vote 3 bedroom GV platinum.. I am guessing you can snag one of these for about $5K-$6K. MF's about $1300. Great traders. If you want summer Hawaii or ski week, use the whole 3 bedroom. If you give yourself a wide variety of dates..Lets say early June-mid august..you will get something every time. Same thing for ski weeks...put the whole 3 bedroom in and give mid jan-mid march dates and you will get something every time. You must deposit a year in advance...

if you want shoulder seasons, lock off create a 2 bedroom and studio and use both. When those kids come a GV will be nice to see southern mouse house..

Only negative with 3 bedroom GV is "rentals" just tons of rentals open in Orlando... but you can get Presidents week easily, I always have, although I have 13 month priority...

You might also consider HHI GO/Barony plat summer... a bit more expensive..guaranteed good rental, nice occupancy but non lock off!!! Good news here is that HHI summer will ALWAYS be in demand and awesome trader too!!!! MF's very reasonable..about $1200

just my 2 cents... you might do very well picking up a 2 bedroom Barony, 3 bedroom plat GV for about 20K total and have some nice chips in the game... cheaper than the 37K you were going to pay!!!

I would normally vote 3BR Grand Chateau (locks off into 2BR and 1 BR), but I think Puck's recommendation of a 3BR Grande Vista may be better in this case since OP lives in Florida. You would not go wrong with either one.
 
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Quadmaniac

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I would tend to agree that GV 3br Platinum is pretty reasonable at $1300 MF, but as they have said renting it out for more the MF is unlikely. I disagree that you need to deposit the whole 3 br to get a 2 br in Hawaii. It all depends on when you are going. Your chances are greater depositing a larger unit, but many times you can get the same using a 1br or studio DEPENDING on when you want to go. If you are looking at shoulder seasons as you said, it is definitely possible just as I traded my studio for a 2br Ko Olina earlier today. Ko Olina is a lot easier to get than Maui Ocean Club probably due to popularity. If it is just the two of you, a 1br would be more than enough. Summer weeks are attainable as well, but it may just take longer to find. A couple of weeks ago I saw a 3 br available with my studio, I just wish I could have gone at that time. Great deals do pop up quite frequently if you search quite regularly each day.

I personally like WR 2 br Platinum - I have seen them on Ebay for about $400-600 and locks off into a 1 br and studio. MF is about $936 ? I paid $960 for mine with closing and 2012 usage (MF $880) so my net cost was about $80 so it was a killer deal. Most times it was about 400-600 without current year's usage plus closing, so total about $1000 maybe. The cost to purchase is much lower than GV/GC/SR and recently in when I compared side by side, my WR pulled up extra dates that my SR did not.

As long as you buy platinum, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

You will always be able to find a trade, it just depends how diligent you are and how far in advance you plan ahead. For example I already deposited my 2013 usage into II and have it available for trading. In a few months I will choose my 2014 week and deposit that as well so I have it ready to go. The earlier you deposit, the more value it has as it has more time before it expires. Deposits don't expire until two years after you deposit it into II.

For example my 2013 week is Jul 12-19 2013 for WR that I choose from Marriott and deposited into II. When you have a floating timeshare, you want to choose a week that has the highest demand at your home resort and deposit this into II. The higher the demand week at your home resort, the more trading power. I have till Jul 19 2015 to make a trade with it before it expires. I deposited this earlier this year, so I have just about 3 years to make a trade.

II is $89 per year, but if you buy 5 yrs it is cheaper or sometimes there are 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 specials occasionally.
Marriott to Marriott exchanges are $124
Marriott to non-Marriott exchanges are $154
add $20 if you call in vs online
Lock off fee is $80

Exchanges can highly dependent on where you want to go and when. Some places are readily available whereas areas like Hawaii in the summer or holidays are much harder to find. Over the past couple of weeks I have seen some Maui availability over Christmas and New Years. Usually the hard to find weeks will come up within the flex period of 90 days when people cancel and it becomes available. You can find what you want immediately or it can take months. The further ahead you plan, the greater chance you will find it. If you wanted to go to Maui for Christmas 2013/14 I would start searching now. I normally put the maximum search dates possible so it pulls up all the availability even if it is a year or two away. I would say that if you really wanted Christmas this year and you searched multiple times a day the past two months, you would find it most probably. I've had situations where it has appeared the day my flight was departing.

If Maui is high on your list, you might want to also consider Sheraton Desert Oasis 2 br Gold Plus floating weeks 1-52 as that will give you Starwood priority in II into the Westin Kaanapali in Maui. I have found it is much easier to get into the Westin than Marriott Maui Ocean Club, but personal preference wise, I like the Marriott better. SDO can be had for under $1000 easily and the MF is about $1150 range. I don't believe there is a lock off fee. I traded my two sides of SDO lock off for 2 weeks in a 2 br at Westin Kaanapali in the last two weeks of August 2013. It would be much more difficult to get 2 x 2br MOC at that same time next year.
 
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Beefnot

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You will always be able to find a trade, it just depends how diligent you are and how far in advance you plan ahead. For example I already deposited my 2013 usage into II and have it available for trading. In a few months I will choose my 2014 week and deposit that as well so I have it ready to go. The earlier you deposit, the more value it has as it has more time before it expires. Deposits don't expire until two years after you deposit it into II. the deposited week's travel start date

Although your example was right, just want to clarify your the comment above.
 

MOXJO7282

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If you really want to accomplish all that you outline, I'd suggest a 2BDRM Marriott Aruba Surf OV unit.

Yes you will pay more than you may be thinking but the value you will receive in the long run will far exceed the other resorts mentioned.

This unit and other premium beach LOs will actually give you a return on your investment (ROI) as you can easily rent this for $1500-$2000 above MF every year you decide not to go. Also if you ever wanted to sell for what ever reason you could very easily with minimum lost of investment

With the other units mentioned you'll be hard pressed to rent at all so every year you'll have to use or trade for something. Also selling is also much more challenging.

Trading with an Aruba surf would also give you a huge trading advantage over the others mentioned.

I know its a big spend and maybe out of your range but if its not, in the long run, IMHO, its the best deal out there in terms of value and ROI.
 

GregT

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Fiona,

You've gotten great advice here -- one of things you need to consider is how important it is to you that it be rentable for much more than the MFs. Once you start to think about its rental potential, the acquisition price will go up accordingly, because it has value as more than just a trading property.

So...from a trading perspective, in my opinion there are only three Platinum properties that have "special qualities", and I rank them as follows.

1. Grande Vista 3BR (Special because it is a 3BR and can lock-off -- I rank it #1 because it has low MFs (~$1250))
2. Grande Chateau 3BR (Special because it locks off into a 2BR and a 1BR, but has much higher MFs (~$1750)-- but having a 1BR a is much better deposit than a Studio, so may be worth the money to you)
3. Shadow Ridge Enclaves 2BR Deluxe (Special because it locks off into two 1BR units and still has good MFs at ~1,100)

Honorable Mention: Imperial Palms 3BR -- the power of a 3BR at a reasonable MF of $1,250 -- but doesn't lock-off, which hurts it as a dedicated trader because you only get one deposit

The next tier are all excellent trading properties that would do well for your trading needs. I think any of these would allow you to get most of the trades that you've considered and would be a great starting point.

In no particular order, most with MFs between $1,000 - $1,200, and all lock-off into a 1BR and a Studio:

- 2BR Grande Vista
- 2BR Grand Chateau
- 2BR Willow Ridge (note that it has the lowest MFs -- but Branson location may impact trading power vs the others)
- 2BR Shadow Ridge
- 2BR Desert Springs Villas I/II

I'm sure there are others, but this second tier is "widely available" on eBay and would likely cost $2,000 - $3,000 to purchase. The first tier trading units seem to be quite scarce and there is competition for those few when they appear on eBay.

Please note that I've not included a number of excellent Marriott properties because of what I consider a "flaw" for a dedicated trading property -- either its MFs are too high to be an effective trader (Hawaii properties, MFC) or it doesn't lock-off into two deposits (Newport Coast, Cypress Harbour). Those are still excellent weeks to own, but I'm focused specifically on the best trading properties

So.....these are my opinion, and I welcome comments on others and any clarifications from what I have missed.


........................................

I feel that it is important to put in a balancing comment on buying a Marriott trader. The Marriott landscape continues to evolve -- with the introduction of DClub, while we have continued to see excellent trades come through, we have also noticed a difference in the trading experience. Trades seem to come in more slowly, and bulk deposits from Marriott (of unused weeks) seem to come much closer to check-in date. It's not as reliable to get a trade 8-12 months from check-in as it used to be.

This uncertainty about the trading experience is the major reason I went to competitors (HGVC and Starwood) -- because I value the predictability that those point-based systems provide to me. It drives me nuts waiting for an exchange to match if it is a "core vacation" to me, so I bought the competitors where I will know exactly 8/9 months out if I got the reservation I wanted. As an example, I'm currently waiting for a MOC Studio to match (with another MOC Studio) for my Dad's unit for our 2013 family vacation. I'm six months into the request and frustrated by the lack of a match. I have a backup plan so I know my Dad will have a place to sleep (booked with DC points) but I'm simply highlighting the risk of exchanging. I think shoulder season trades will be much more predictable.

So.....I hope this information is helpful, and I welcome the contributions of others.

Best,

Greg
 
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Bretthart

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Like Fiona I'm interested in buying a resale 2br LO week at Marriott Canyon Villas Platinum as my home resort. I would like trade my week every year and used MCV accommodation ie swimming pool since I live in Phoenix. Do you think this is a good idea or bad?

Thanks
 

LAX Mom

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Like Fiona I'm interested in buying a resale 2br LO week at Marriott Canyon Villas Platinum as my home resort. I would like trade my week every year and used MCV accommodation ie swimming pool since I live in Phoenix. Do you think this is a good idea or bad?

Thanks
Are you asking about day use of the pools at Canyon Villas? Some Marriott properties allow day use, others don't. I'm not sure about Canyon Villas.

Where & when do you want to exchange? We can give you more advice if you are more specific about your plans.
 

CashEddie

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If you want a cheap, mainly trading property, I would also consider looking at a non beach HHI summer week. Believe it or not, all Marriot summer HHI weeks trade the same via II. There are a few Harbour Point weeks listed in the market place section of this board. There is week 21 that is less than $500 listed there. Granted, its not middle of the summer but usually falls during the Memorial Day Weekend and a number of school systems are already out by mid May.

I just picked up week 28 at Harbour Point. I puchased it primarly for usage but I do know that it is a very strong trader and for the times I decide to trade, I'm confident I will have good success. If not, worst case I got back to Hilton Head during the summer. Now the downside to Harbour Point (and all other HHI Marriotts) is that its not a lock off. The other "downside" is that its not directly on the beach but is about 1.5 mile from beach and there is a free shuttle that will take you door-to-door from resort to the beach. You can also rent bikes from resort and ride there. Also, it may not rent out as high as a beach front HHI resort.

IMHO, if you are strictly looking for a trader, I wouldn't invest a ton of money in a property if you dont see yourself using it a fair amount of time. Why spend 10K+ on a HHI beach summer week or Aurba platinum for trading primarly and never go there? I mean if you want to get into the rental business then OK but it sounds like you want to trade primarly and rent when you dont trade/use but unless you are going to be renting most of the time, I don't see it as a smart move.

Also, what are you looking to trade into? Aurba and HHI beach summer weeks are at the top of the Marriott food chain when it comes to places people are trying to get into (also Hawaii and Ski weeks). So if you purchase on of those weeks and pay the premium, most other trades you do outside of maybe Hawaii and ski weeks could be looked at as "down trades." Do you want to spend the premium for those weeks to trade into Orlando where there is a ton of availability and can be had with other good, cheaper traders or gateways most of the year?


So I would look at the good traders Greg and others have suggested and look for a cheap entry into the game and test the waters. Just say you picked up that week 21 of HP in HHI or say WillowRidge in Branson for $500 - $1000 and you do the trade game and it works out great (folks have gotten great trades with both properties) then you have saved a ton of money and are getting great value. If it doesn't work out and you have to unload it, the worst you would be out is the minor upfront cost and MFs you had to pay before getting rid of it.
 

FionaS

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Thanks for everyone who has provided suggestions, again very helpful.

Yes, my primary focus is on trading, as I intend to use it for personal enjoyment, not trying to make money out of the property.

I did start looking at resale weeks of GV and GC at redweek, TUG and ebay. Looks like there are very few 3br PLAT on sale, and their price is around 75K for annual usage. 2br runs cheaper, I can probably get a PLAT annual usage at 1k, but I am not quite sure about the trading power. I am still hoping that I can use the property to go to Hawaii in the summer or go skiing in the winter (with flexible dates). I am ok with getting a 2br in Hawaii or ski resort with a 3br GV or GC. I was really looking for a EOY to invest a little and test the water first. But I haven't seen any PLAT 3br EOY for either GV or GC...
 

CashEddie

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Thanks for everyone who has provided suggestions, again very helpful.

Yes, my primary focus is on trading, as I intend to use it for personal enjoyment, not trying to make money out of the property.

I did start looking at resale weeks of GV and GC at redweek, TUG and ebay. Looks like there are very few 3br PLAT on sale, and their price is around 75K for annual usage. 2br runs cheaper, I can probably get a PLAT annual usage at 1k, but I am not quite sure about the trading power. I am still hoping that I can use the property to go to Hawaii in the summer or go skiing in the winter (with flexible dates). I am ok with getting a 2br in Hawaii or ski resort with a 3br GV or GC. I was really looking for a EOY to invest a little and test the water first. But I haven't seen any PLAT 3br EOY for either GV or GC...

Those 3 BDR are rare and when they show up on ebay,they will either:

1. Be highly bidded on if listed by reputable seller, OR
2. Will receive little to no bids from a unknown seller and auction will most likely go unsold.

As "overbuilt" as Orlando is, people still come and and folks love the Marriott properties there. Grand Vista is one of the most popular Marriotts resorts in Orlando. If you do get a 2 BDR plat GV, it can be a "good" trader and I would suggest you deposit the whole two bedroom if you are looking for high demand weeks like Hawaii in summer or Ski weeks. This will increase your trading power.

The thing you have to remember about Orlando is that its a major FAMILY desitnation so for trading, you want to give II your whole 2BDR to get better trading power for those high demand weeks you are seeking. If you lock off during the summer and try to trade both sides for a prime Hawaii summer week or Ski week, you will face a tougher time getting what you want.

However, if you lock off and are requesting shoulder season places (HHI during fall) you will get uptrades for your units. I have done trades with my studio of GV gold week into Southern Spain Marriotts resorts (2 and sometimes 3 bdr) for late fall/winter/early spring. The weather there is great year around.
 

FionaS

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Before I discover TUG or marriott TS. I was paying $150~200 a night to get a 3/4/5 bedroom house in Orlando, so I would agree with you that Orlando is overbuilt.

In terms of buying on ebay, what things should I be careful about? Looks like bidding from a unkonw seller isn't a good idea.. And what do you think is the fair market value for a 3br PLAT GV?

Those 3 BDR are rare and when they show up on ebay,they will either:

1. Be highly bidded on if listed by reputable seller, OR
2. Will receive little to no bids from a unknown seller and auction will most likely go unsold.

As "overbuilt" as Orlando is, people still come and and folks love the Marriott properties there.
 

FionaS

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I was meant to ask you about "Deposits don't expire until two years after the deposited week's travel start date."

Can you explain this a bit more? Let's say I reserve a week in July 2013 and deposited in II now, it won't expire until July 2015?

This deposit is different from exchange right?


Sorry you're right, thanks for picking up in my typo :)
 

jme

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if there is strength in numbers, then I also concur that 3-BR Platinum Grande Vista is the way to go....(not 2-BR, and not 3-BR Gold). you will have many options, and the resort continues to perform as a trader, destination (it's gorgeous), and renter.

Plus you can split and do various things too.

On Ebay (which is the only place you should look because of price), I've seen 3-BR Platinum GV's go for as low as $2500-2800, and as high as $4000+. Now that the word is out, and it has been for many months, the 3-BR villas are being snatched up fairly quickly. Hope you find one.....it'll go up to around $1500-2000 early, stay still, then go higher quickly at the end.
 

Quadmaniac

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I was meant to ask you about "Deposits don't expire until two years after the deposited week's travel start date."

Can you explain this a bit more? Let's say I reserve a week in July 2013 and deposited in II now, it won't expire until July 2015?

This deposit is different from exchange right?

Yes you have till July 2015 to exchange it. The system allows you to search anytime from now to 2 years from now. Currently I can search as far as Dec 2014.
 
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CashEddie

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Before I discover TUG or marriott TS. I was paying $150~200 a night to get a 3/4/5 bedroom house in Orlando, so I would agree with you that Orlando is overbuilt.

In terms of buying on ebay, what things should I be careful about? Looks like bidding from a unkonw seller isn't a good idea.. And what do you think is the fair market value for a 3br PLAT GV?

I would start by looking under the Buying/Selling section of this board and look at some of the reviews given for ebay sellers.

I haven't closely tracked the prices for the 3 BDR units so I can't give any numbers for those.

Things you want to keep in mind with ebay:

1. When a week is listed, make note of week/unit/season. You want to verify this with seller before hand if possible. Sometimes the listings have errors so you want to be sure you have all the correct information before bidding.

2. Search seller username on TUG to get feedback. Also look at ebay feedback of seller.

3. If you win auction, work with seller to get all information in #1 verified by the resort. This info can be verified by requesting usage and financial estoppel letters. Be sure you get that upfront before paying any money. If seller gives you hard time about it, walk away.

4. If its a large sum of money, work out payment arrangements. For example, if you win an auction for prime Hawaii week for 10K, work out a deal where you send them say $1000 at contract signing and balance due at closing. (after property has passed ROFR, new deed has been drafted and reviewed by both parties, signed by owner and ready to record by county)

Try to get as much info from seller upfront as possible and if things dont look right after winning auction, walk away.
 

Quadmaniac

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On Ebay (which is the only place you should look because of price), I've seen 3-BR Platinum GV's go for as low as $2500-2800, and as high as $4000+. Now that the word is out, and it has been for many months, the 3-BR villas are being snatched up fairly quickly. Hope you find one.....it'll go up to around $1500-2000 early, stay still, then go higher quickly at the end.

I'm not sure I've ever seen one that cheap. I see 2 br GV plat going for $3K+ on Ebay.
 

BocaBoy

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Yes you have till July 2015 to exchange it - you could exchange it for something as far out as June 2017 if it appears available in your search in July 2015. The system allows you to search anytime from now to 2 years from now. Currently I can search as far as Dec 2014.

Not correct. The week you exchange into must be not later than July 2015 in this example. In fact, nothing will appear in your II search that is after the July 2015 date.
 

FionaS

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This is all great advices. One question: I notice that some ads that say season: plat, floating wks XX to XX, but under deed, they would have a specific unit and a specific week. This is the norm right? Having it deeded to a particular unit and week, I should still have the ability to reserve any week in the plat season, right?

Things you want to keep in mind with ebay:

1. When a week is listed, make note of week/unit/season. You want to verify this with seller before hand if possible. Sometimes the listings have errors so you want to be sure you have all the correct information before bidding.

2. Search seller username on TUG to get feedback. Also look at ebay feedback of seller.

3. If you win auction, work with seller to get all information in #1 verified by the resort. This info can be verified by requesting usage and financial estoppel letters. Be sure you get that upfront before paying any money. If seller gives you hard time about it, walk away.

4. If its a large sum of money, work out payment arrangements. For example, if you win an auction for prime Hawaii week for 10K, work out a deal where you send them say $1000 at contract signing and balance due at closing. (after property has passed ROFR, new deed has been drafted and reviewed by both parties, signed by owner and ready to record by county)

Try to get as much info from seller upfront as possible and if things dont look right after winning auction, walk away.
 

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Grand Chateau
I did start looking at resale weeks of GV and GC at redweek, TUG and ebay. Looks like there are very few 3br PLAT on sale.
Just in case you do not know, Grand Chateau is all Platinum (weeks 1-51) except for week 52 which is Platinum Plus and originally sold at developer prices almost twice the price for a platinum week, at least for a 3BR. There are no weeks less than Platinum.
 

Bretthart

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Are you asking about day use of the pools at Canyon Villas? Some Marriott properties allow day use, others don't. I'm not sure about Canyon Villas.

Where & when do you want to exchange? We can give you more advice if you are more specific about your plans.

Yes day use. I would like to trade to resorts mostly on the west coast during March and summer months because I have kids.
 

BocaBoy

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Grand Chateau
Fiona,

You've gotten great advice here -- one of things you need to consider is how important it is to you that it be rentable for much more than the MFs. Once you start to think about its rental potential, the acquisition price will go up accordingly, because it has value as more than just a trading property.

So...from a trading perspective, in my opinion there are only three Platinum properties that have "special qualities", and I rank them as follows.

1. Grande Vista 3BR (Special because it is a 3BR and can lock-off -- I rank it #1 because it has low MFs (~$1250))
2. Grande Chateau 3BR (Special because it locks off into a 2BR and a 1BR, but has much higher MFs (~$1750)-- but having a 1BR a is much better deposit than a Studio, so may be worth the money to you)
3. Shadow Ridge Enclaves 2BR Deluxe (Special because it locks off into two 1BR units and still has good MFs at ~1,100)

Honorable Mention: Imperial Palms 3BR -- the power of a 3BR at a reasonable MF of $1,250 -- but doesn't lock-off, which hurts it as a dedicated trader because you only get one deposit

The next tier are all excellent trading properties that would do well for your trading needs. I think any of these would allow you to get most of the trades that you've considered and would be a great starting point.

In no particular order, most with MFs between $1,000 - $1,200, and all lock-off into a 1BR and a Studio:

- 2BR Grande Vista
- 2BR Grand Chateau
- 2BR Willow Ridge (note that it has the lowest MFs -- but Branson location may impact trading power vs the others)
- 2BR Shadow Ridge
- 2BR Desert Springs Villas I/II

I'm sure there are others, but this second tier is "widely available" on eBay and would likely cost $2,000 - $3,000 to purchase. The first tier trading units seem to be quite scarce and there is competition for those few when they appear on eBay.

Please note that I've not included a number of excellent Marriott properties because of what I consider a "flaw" for a dedicated trading property -- either its MFs are too high to be an effective trader (Hawaii properties, MFC) or it doesn't lock-off into two deposits (Newport Coast, Cypress Harbour). Those are still excellent weeks to own, but I'm focused specifically on the best trading properties

So.....these are my opinion, and I welcome comments on others and any clarifications from what I have missed.

........................................

I feel that it is important to put in a balancing comment on buying a Marriott trader. The Marriott landscape continues to evolve -- with the introduction of DClub, while we have continued to see excellent trades come through, we have also noticed a difference in the trading experience. Trades seem to come in more slowly, and bulk deposits from Marriott (of unused weeks) seem to come much closer to check-in date. It's not as reliable to get a trade 8-12 months from check-in as it used to be.
Greg

Greg, I think this is one of the best and most useful posts I have seen on TUG in a long time. You approach things objectively and your post demonstrates a quality response to the question asked, not the question you decided should have been asked. It should be of great help to the OP.
 
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