[2012] Fairness on reviews of TS locations?

[TUGBrian]

also note, that resort ratings are a combination of reviews...and ratings submitted without reviews.

not just reviews.

 

[easyrider]

I use the ratings only as an indicator of overall satisfaction of the customers served. Reviews are a better indicator. On Trip Advisor there are over 1000 reviews of some resorts with a rating. I like this.

I like the TUG reviews because most of the reviewers are seasoned travelers who know what is what with timeshare resorts.

 

[GregGH]

ill see if we can perhaps establish a dual rating system...one for an overall score...and another that perhaps just takes an average of the reviews over the past 60 months.

dont hold me to this just in case its a gigantic nightmare in terms of coding...but ill see what I can do.

Bump to thread .... I see that THIS reviewer's rating of a 4/10 has moved Aviara to second place behind a Marriott ...

Also - I can't search for any other posting on the forum for 'nbraney'.

I rate wines ... ( typically 80 thru 95 thanks to Robert Parker ) ... when you get a rogue ranker - there has to be some 'offset' or adjustment ... in the mean time I have bought 2 more weeks to now have 9 weeks for 2014 ... guess I rate it higher than a 4 ....

Greg

 

[TUGBrian]

we changed the rating to reflect only reviews in the past 7 years.

 

[Bruce W]

I tend to take extreme reviews with a grain of salt. Renters and exchangers are going to get lesser accommodations than owners. Owners are going to give better reviews than renters or exchangers. That's the way it is.

Jim

I agree, saw one on the Galleon one day where the reviewer ripped the resort on their RCI comment card because:

1. It rained all week
2. They did not pick him up at the airport at 10PM with the free shuttle, even though the shuttle picks up until 6PM

 

[Beefnot]

Bump to thread .... I see that THIS reviewer's rating of a 4/10 has moved Aviara to second place behind a Marriott ...

Also - I can't search for any other posting on the forum for 'nbraney'.

I rate wines ... ( typically 80 thru 95 thanks to Robert Parker ) ... when you get a rogue ranker - there has to be some 'offset' or adjustment ... in the mean time I have bought 2 more weeks to now have 9 weeks for 2014 ... guess I rate it higher than a 4 ....

Greg

When I get around to my Aviara review, I too will be bringing down the average, though just slightly, since a "4" sure seems absurd for this resort.

 

[csxjohn]

...Even though the penalty fees are disclosed I still feel they are taking advantage of exchange guests and thus the resort deserves to get down graded scores due to those unfair expenss.

I agree, if I don't get the same thing the owner gets that I traded with to get the unit I feel I'm being unfairly treated and my scoring will reflect that.

Isn't that the suggestion that was being handed out on the Bonnet Creek transportation fee issue?

When I see an owner rank his resort with nothing at all wrong with it I take into consideration that the reviewer may be thinking of selling in the future and has a vested interest in making his resort look better than it really is.

I just read each review and see if the complaints seem valid or not and whether or not they apply to me and my family.

 

[WalnutBaron]

ill see if we can perhaps establish a dual rating system...one for an overall score...and another that perhaps just takes an average of the reviews over the past 60 months.

dont hold me to this just in case its a gigantic nightmare in terms of coding...but ill see what I can do.

Thanks, Brian, for looking into this. I'm an owner at Bay Club Waikoloa. Last year, Hilton completed a complete remodeling of all of the units and the pools and landscaping. It's like a completely new resort. The best part is that the units themselves are huge compared with more recently-built units nearby. Recent reviews of Bay Club from TUGgers reflect the change; there's a definite upswing in the overall ratings given to Bay Club since the completion of the remodeling effort. Unfortunately, this is not really reflected in the overall rating of the resort since the newer review ratings are averaged with all of the reviews done from as long as ten years ago.

Just one more thought: five years seems long to me for the second rating...I would think that reviews written within the past two or three years are more relevant.

Anyway, thanks again for looking into this!

 

[TUGBrian]

as listed, ratings over 7 years do not get included in the overall rating.

we also stopped publishing ratings of 1/2 or 9/10 without a review.

if the resort was that terrible, or that fabulous...you should at least explain why.

 

[Timeshare Von]

As someone who writes and reads reviews on various travel aspects (lodging, restaurants, attractions, etc), I have to say they should only be taken with a grain of salt in the first place. If the reader is taking the time to research something, they should be seeking many data sources and in doing so, they will obtain a better picture through the trends provided.

Yes a rogue reviewer can cause a tilt, but if you know that and they are the relative exception, move on and ignore their feedback.

 

[tombo]

Most of my exchanges have been great. Perhaps I am not as picky, or perhaps I am just reasonable and don't expect EVERYTHING to be perfect. I have never stayed in a timeshare that deserved a rating of one out of ten.

When I read the reviews I am often amazed at what minor problem "ruins" someone's vacation and leads them to posting the lowest rating possible. Often they say the resort was nice, room clean, location good, but the front desk person was rude or check in took too long. I usually only see the front desk person once or twice in 7 days, and I only check in once. They could not be rude enough to "ruin" my trip.

Others ask for a room change to better view, location, larger unit, recently upgraded, etc on an exchange and have a "ruined" trip because their request was not granted. Constant posts here about empty rooms everywhere but the front desk refused to move them. I go in on an exchange expecting the best locations, views, units to go to owners at the resort while hoping to get one of the best units as an exchanger. Some times I get lucky and that is a bonus, but I do not get mad and have my vacation "ruined" when it doesn't happen. At my resorts where I pay MF's that have floating weeks I fully expect to get the best units, not exchangers. And if I reserve a week as an owner whether I come late or leave early that is my unit I paid for and it should sit empty if I am not using it for the full week just in case I come late or decide to return. Plus the owner might have deposited a unit that was not upgraded or has a poor view. The owner would get the unit that they own if they had used it personally. Why should an exchanger expect special treatment? If you buy resort view at an oceanfront resort do you argue with the front desk that you should be upgraded to ocean view when you are checking in?

Then you have the white glove people who have their trip "ruined" if there is any dirt or dust the cleaning crew missed, a dish was not washed well, a tile on the floor is chipped, there is a stain in the sink or toilet, something breaks (even if it is fixed quickly), a dripping faucet, the wi fi is down, there is no wi-fi, charges for wi-fi, towels not fluffy enough, sheets not thick enough, beds too soft, beds too hard, a drawer handle broken, the appliances/TV's are not the newest and most modern, the counter tops aren't granite, a light bulb is blown, etc,etc,etc, etc.....

Trips are also "ruined" because there were too many kids, no activities for kids, adult only pool, no adult only pool, slow elevators, poor on site restaurants, no on site restaurants, heavy traffic, parking not near room, small lobby, too much noise, near the street, too far from everything, too close to everything, too many activities, too few activities, resort too large, resort too small, pool too small,pool too crowded, resort too spread out, resort too cramped, etc,etc,etc,etc.....

I go on vacation to have fun and relax. Minor things will never ruin my valuable time away from work. I look at the overall trip/resort rather than obsessing over minor problems. If 90% is great then I had a great trip. When I read the reviews from some people I think how miserable they must be in life if a minor problem or two in Hawaii, the Caribbean, the mountains, at the beach, ski destination, in New York, etc "ruins" their whole trip. JMHO.

 

[timeos2]

Tombo - Right on. I too am surprised how much people place importance on the tiny things that, usually, have a small impact on the overall trip to someplace they want to go (or else why are they there?). Even my wife at times tends to bemoan that our master bedroom may not face the West or pool or recreation area or whatever she thinks could be nice - who cares? As long as we're not next to the dumpsters, below ground level (there are more units than I would think with this flaw) the unit is reasonably clean & well maintained and in the general area we wanted why sweat it? I'll downgrade for dirty, poor upkeep, unwarranted fees (but not a REASONABLE wifi or other fee IF we choose to use that feature) and real issues but overall try to give a fair rating to what we find.

I do think far too many reviews tend toward the high end - there are maybe a few dozen overall "10" resorts - most are middle of the road at 5-7 ranking that shouldn't be a negative but a norm - with the nicest experiences earning an 8-9. A true 10 is a super experience you'll seldom find so far too many of those are handed out IMO. In some ways the low end is equally abused as saying anything above a Motel 6 is a "1" is seldom the case. Those extreme rankings should be reserved for truly special or incredibly poor resorts so they are correctly identified. A 2 would be a real a real bad rank while a 9 near perfection. That, and the age of the comments / ranking - once a review is a year or two old there is no guarantee it will have any relationship to the situation today, are the most important things when we read any review.

 

[GregGH]

..... snip .....I do think far too many reviews tend toward the high end - there are maybe a few dozen overall "10" resorts - most are middle of the road at 5-7 ranking that shouldn't be a negative but a norm - with the nicest experiences earning an 8-9. A true 10 is a super experience you'll seldom find so far too many of those are handed out IMO. In some ways the low end is equally abused as saying anything above a Motel 6 is a "1" is seldom the case. Those extreme rankings should be reserved for truly special or incredibly poor resorts so they are correctly identified. A 2 would be a real a real bad rank while a 9 near perfection. That, and the age of the comments / ranking - once a review is a year or two old there is no guarantee it will have any relationship to the situation today, are the most important things when we read any review.

I think there has been some good discussion on ratings by many - thank you. Much like the wine rating I mentioned earlier ) boxed into a narrow 85-92 when the the numbers available from 1- 100 ) ... I wonder if we need to re-think the whole rating system ... ?????

Points
-many rating are influenced by the beauty of the area ...fair or not???
-true - some 'small point' blown up out of proportion to deflate a rating

WHAT ... IF ... you assigned points for a variety of factors ... and in TOTAL these came to a 'combined score'

say ..... ( just rough ) ... these are key sections of the total pie ....
-ease of reservation
-first impressions
-cleanliness
-your villa features
-attention to detail & requests
-security and safety
-depth of amenities on site
-local geographical beauty and activities
- ( #9 ) open to your suggestions
- ( #10 ) " " "

Take these 10 sections -- and rate them 1-10 .... then the programer ( better to wear out than rust out I always say on programers ) add the TOTAL ... then we would get less impact for one 'small thing'

In addition -- assign a weight to reviews that are CURRENT - within 12 months ... an factor down 20% a year for each year they age .... that handles reviews a few years out but the resort has really gone down hill since then ....

This could really give us a GREAT rating system ... instead of a number so tight to the existing 8-9.5 we have ....

Extra Point --how can you assign bonus points ??? Things that could take a resort OVER the top ... for these resorts that earn it ...
-bonus points could be ..... 1/10 of 1 point for ....
-pool temp at 83 or higher
-pool attendants and /or no pool chair hogs allowed
-extremely good pillows &/or mattresses
-staff know you by name
-ability to schedule villa housekeeping at specific time each day
-(extreme) cleanliness of steam rooms & gym
-(extreme) cleanliness of parking lots and grounds
these are just a few == but how do you reward locations for that extra effort in a time of pressure on maintenance fee 'controls'

This is all meant in the best of intentions and to simulate conversions .... to getting a better rating system ...

Greg

 

[Timeshare Von]

I must say that I have rarely had a horrific timeshare stay or experience. I've had some that started out marginally or with some challenges along the way, but at the end of the day, the timeshare is really just a place to sleep and east some meals. Our needs are pretty basic and anything above that is a bonus.

 

[GregGH]

...snip .... but at the end of the day, the timeshare is really just a place to sleep and east some meals. Our needs are pretty basic and anything above that is a bonus.

So if you rate a place as a '9.5' ...someone with higher expectations would be disappointed ... do you see my point ...how do you rate a TS so the ratings reflect a QPR ( Quality Price Ratio ) to steal a wine term ... and reflect a level on a luxury scale ??

Greg

 

[Timeshare Von]

So if you rate a place as a '9.5' ...someone with higher expectations would be disappointed ... do you see my point ...how do you rate a TS so the ratings reflect a QPR ( Quality Price Ratio ) to steal a wine term ... and reflect a level on a luxury scale ??

Greg

When I'm rating on a 1-10 scale here on TUG, I keep in mind and use the scale guidelines provided. As much as I love our timeshare on Waikiki, I doubt I have rated it a 9.5 since it doesn't have onsite amenities that meet the rating scale for that high a rating/number.

Besides, I don't know that anyone expects timeshares to be rated on a QPR basis. If so, my Waikiki would be a 10 because for the MF and "price to acquire" you might not find a better deal in Hawaii.

 

[geekette]

Interesting idea, but I would downgrade a pool at 83 degrees as that's lobster-cooking temps! chair hogs are a reality in life, I would not mark down a resort for having some rude guests. Having a pool attendant doesn't score extra points with me.

I think also that the area's beauty should not impact the score of A Resort unless you are talking about resort grounds landscaping. If I fly into paradise and am enthralled by the beauty of it, that really should not be reflected in resort scores.

ease of reservation isn't a great point to be made, either, because it could be private rental, own to use, exchange ... marking down a difficult RCI trade doesn't make sense to me.

Daily housekeeping is a rare feature so I don't see that as a reasonable item to include as far as scheduling. If DH Exists, that could be a point.

attention to details, requests, knowing my name ... these are not items I would generally have exposure to. I very rarely need to ask staff for anything and like being anonymous.

I appreciate that you are trying to get the conversation going but it was very quick to get to "but we see that from exactly opposite sides" and value different things. This is what makes any rating system difficult.

I think there has been some good discussion on ratings by many - thank you. Much like the wine rating I mentioned earlier ) boxed into a narrow 85-92 when the the numbers available from 1- 100 ) ... I wonder if we need to re-think the whole rating system ... ?????

Points
-many rating are influenced by the beauty of the area ...fair or not???
-true - some 'small point' blown up out of proportion to deflate a rating

WHAT ... IF ... you assigned points for a variety of factors ... and in TOTAL these came to a 'combined score'

say ..... ( just rough ) ... these are key sections of the total pie ....
-ease of reservation
-first impressions
-cleanliness
-your villa features
-attention to detail & requests
-security and safety
-depth of amenities on site
-local geographical beauty and activities
- ( #9 ) open to your suggestions
- ( #10 ) " " "

Take these 10 sections -- and rate them 1-10 .... then the programer ( better to wear out than rust out I always say on programers ) add the TOTAL ... then we would get less impact for one 'small thing'

In addition -- assign a weight to reviews that are CURRENT - within 12 months ... an factor down 20% a year for each year they age .... that handles reviews a few years out but the resort has really gone down hill since then ....

This could really give us a GREAT rating system ... instead of a number so tight to the existing 8-9.5 we have ....

Extra Point --how can you assign bonus points ??? Things that could take a resort OVER the top ... for these resorts that earn it ...
-bonus points could be ..... 1/10 of 1 point for ....
-pool temp at 83 or higher
-pool attendants and /or no pool chair hogs allowed
-extremely good pillows &/or mattresses
-staff know you by name
-ability to schedule villa housekeeping at specific time each day
-(extreme) cleanliness of steam rooms & gym
-(extreme) cleanliness of parking lots and grounds
these are just a few == but how do you reward locations for that extra effort in a time of pressure on maintenance fee 'controls'

This is all meant in the best of intentions and to simulate conversions .... to getting a better rating system ...

Greg

 

[AbelowDS]

Could there be a required format for a review? For example, a required section on PROs, a required section on CONs, a required section for a write-up? Makes the score less relevant since my expectation for a unit is different than the next person's. (e.g., I could care less if the living room is on the small side, but someone else may mark that down because it's important to him. Pros/Cons help me see why the low scores were given and I'd throw out those issues when reading the review.)

I do like the idea of rating different categories/attributes. However, too many would be unweldy and not using the right ones might not be valuable. How about separate scores for the unit, the staff/service, the property amenities, etc. I find this helpful on II when I look at a property. Then a reader can judge if the cons are an issue for him/her.

 

[SmithOp]

I agree, I'd like to see a template to assist reviewers with what the majority think is important to review.

I tend to ignore the reviews that are trip reports on what they did (went to Costco, etc), I want to know about the rooms, beds, fees, resort activities, pools, and staff. Some of them read like a diary, not a review at all.

 

[TUGBrian]

I would actually like to change/add to the review input form to add some quick info boxes to be honest.

things like "was this an exchange?" wifi available? yadda yadda

some very simple things that people can check a yes or no to that would input that data along with the review automatically.

 

[Rent_Share]

in the mean time I have bought 2 more weeks to now have 9 weeks for 2014 ... guess I rate it higher than a 4 ....

Greg

9 weeks at FSA creates quite the MF liability, but you can bring your dog

 

[Timeshare Von]

Are you in competition with Ron as to who can BRAG the most about their holdings

HA! Nine weeks isn't enough to brag about

 

[pedro47]

I would actually like to change/add to the review input form to add some quick info boxes to be honest.

things like "was this an exchange?" wifi available? yadda yadda

some very simple things that people can check a yes or no to that would input that data along with the review automatically.

Your Suggestions are excellent. Please go forward with your ideas.

 

[VegasBella]

There is an idea -- to 'weight' the rating by date - giving older rating diminishing weight factor .... valid point as something great 5 years is almost ancient history in TS's ... vs something great in the past 12 months.

Sounds like a great idea to me!

I would actually like to change/add to the review input form to add some quick info boxes to be honest.

things like "was this an exchange?" wifi available? yadda yadda

some very simple things that people can check a yes or no to that would input that data along with the review automatically.

I was going to suggest that, too. I like to be able to scan reviews quickly to find out things like that.

My list would include things like:
free wifi
pet-friendly
heated pool
walking distance to... grocery store, restaurants, beach, etc.

 

[Rent_Share]

Sounds like a great idea to me!
pet-friendly

< 5 % of ALL TIME SHARES ARE PET FRIENDLY