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[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

truthr

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Legacy for Life

Does anyone remember when the "Legacy for Life" was first offered.
We went to one of the meetings in Edmonton but for the life of me I cannot remember the year.

We didn't buy into it so I didn't keep any of the information.

Thanks
 

GypsyOne

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Does anyone remember when the "Legacy for Life" was first offered.
We went to one of the meetings in Edmonton but for the life of me I cannot remember the year.

We didn't buy into it so I didn't keep any of the information.

Thanks

From Her Ladyship's ruling page 6-7:

2) Vacation Interval Agreements (VIAs)

[13] Fairmont leased (and then later sold) vacation intervals, or time shares, in the Resort. There are basically two types of vacation interval agreements: (a) agreements entered into prior to 2009 by which vacation interval owners acquired a 40-year leasehold interest; and
(b) agreements entered into from 2009 forward which create co-ownership interests.
In addition, from 2009, vacation interval owners who held leasehold interests were given the option of entering into a co-ownership interest agreement. (Legacy for Life)
 

truthr

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From Her Ladyship's ruling page 6-7:

2) Vacation Interval Agreements (VIAs)

[13] Fairmont leased (and then later sold) vacation intervals, or time shares, in the Resort. There are basically two types of vacation interval agreements: (a) agreements entered into prior to 2009 by which vacation interval owners acquired a 40-year leasehold interest; and
(b) agreements entered into from 2009 forward which create co-ownership interests.
In addition, from 2009, vacation interval owners who held leasehold interests were given the option of entering into a co-ownership interest agreement. (Legacy for Life)

Thanks for the reply GypsyOne. How did I miss that? :doh: Maybe because I have read so much it is hard to remember where I read it.
 

Hotpink

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Weasel in the hen house

Not sure how many of you have a rural background or know much about these little carnivores.

Weasels are the smaller cousin of the mink and are notorious for their killing ways. If one gains access to a chicken coup or a hen house then every bird in the location is killed. It s said they kill for sport ( can't prove it ) and there is no way they can eat that much. They usually kill by biting the head or upper neck until every bird is dead.

It appears that Northmont ( the weasels ) are trying to gain access to our hen house with their latest missive received today.Chicken wire just keeps chickens in and not weasels out. We have much better means of keeping the vermin out of our collective house.

Arbitrarily changing all contracts and threatening to take each and every one of us to court is sounding desperate and they still have to collect IF they do WIN.

That is a very unlikely outcome considering some of our other options which I will not say in this forum.

The Northmont missive should be in your in box by now. Happy reading
 

Punter

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Some of us do not receive correspondence from Northmont. Would it be possible for someone to post it here? Thank you in advance.
 
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Lostmyshirt

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Good luck Chuck!!

The latest email is just unbelievable. The irony is I can rent a week off Interval for $35 US a night!!! Why the heck would I EVER pay them $18000 to keep it or take it back????? Why would I pay anything when I was blocked immediately because I refused to participate in what was a breach of contract demanding $40 million on the backs of people who will never get any financial gain from it. Maybe its time to overthrow the management surely there is 51% in favor of that. These guys have happily paid themselves despite the financial hardships they have put on the backs of others. Where was the consultation process? where was there an opportunity to voice our concerns??
 

GypsyOne

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weasel in the hen house

Not sure how many of you have a rural background or know much about these little carnivores.

Weasels are the smaller cousin of the mink and are notorious for their killing ways. If one gains access to a chicken coup or a hen house then every bird in the location is killed. It s said they kill for sport ( can't prove it ) and there is no way they can eat that much. They usually kill by biting the head or upper neck until every bird is dead.

It appears that Northmont ( the weasels ) are trying to gain access to our hen house with their latest missive received today.Chicken wire just keeps chickens in and not weasels out. We have much better means of keeping the vermin out of our collective house.

Arbitrarily changing all contracts and threatening to take each and every one of us to court is sounding desperate and they still have to collect IF they do WIN.

That is a very unlikely outcome considering some of our other options which I will not say in this forum.

The Northmont missive should be in your in box by now. Happy reading

Having a rural background, I know a bit about the habits of weasels as I used to trap them for spending money. Mink are hard to trap; weasels are easy. The reason weasels are easy to trap is because they are greedy little bastards with a voracious appetite for blood. Bait a trap with blood meat and you caught a weasel if there was one in the area. Sort of like the weasels at Northmont, who now that the hen house door has been opened by Her Ladyship, they smell blood and will not stop.
 
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Weasel hunting.

owner1, I am very suspicious of posts supporting Northmont's threats. I can't possibly improve on GypsyOne's response but, I also can't keep quiet. I can't believe anyone, unless they are financially benefiting from Northmont's actions, could view them as being fair, reasonable or even in the subtlest of ways serving the interests of the TS Owners. I looked up your previous posts. Wow! We're going to get sued by the Property's creditors? Well, what's the difference? We're paying all their bills and more now. Northmont saved us? That's almost as demented and deceitful as the entrance to Auschwitz bearing the promise, "Work sets you free.".
I don't think; I know we are getting a raw deal. The costs are more expensive than other properties in BC. Oh, unless you are talking about Lake Okanagan. Yes, well, maybe then.
You ask, who is going to pay for our default? Then you say, "Not I if I have a say. I have no intention of paying for any legal cost incurred trying to get you to pay your fees." Now you sound like us. Oh, you'll be paying it alright. When you complain to Northmont you know what they'll say? They'll say, "If you sign a contract and you want out you will always pay a penalty. Try and cancel your house mortgage or your lease on your vehicle..." Sound familiar?
Some are just less tolerant of abuse than others. Word to the wise, don't lose Geldert's contact information.
 

aden2

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My biggest mistake was going to a Legacy for Life meeting in 2009 and again in 2010 here in Edmonton. I was not aware of how great Fairmont was doing until we were shown slides of their success. It was not until May of 2013 that what we were shown could have belonged to Disneyland as it was a fairy tale story!
 
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Punter

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Okay. That's just bull$hit. Why even bother having a contract at alll? Management can just 'email' out a revision to certain owners yet everyone has a new contract that suits Northmont? It's bull$*bleep*. The timeshare industry will not/ cannot survive such nonsense.
 

GypsyOne

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The arrogance!

The arrogance of this white collar band knows no bounds. Now they are not even pretending my lease/contract means nothing. They are advising me that the lease I signed in 2000 is invalid, it's the lease that was signed in 2003 that counts. With the sending of an email, they think they can nullify my contract that I signed in good faith and assumed was legally enforceable. What I agreed to in 2000 is meaningless. What counts is a lease signed by a complete stranger that I did not even know existed. But by their own statement, they are not done yet. Appears they will not be satisfied until they have, in effect, my bankcard and my pin number. Their reason for reaching for this unprecedented power is to "remove any ambiguity" that they are masters of my bank account. The question becomes, can this unscrupulous gang hold another group hostage for their own financial self-interests? If you go by the last ruling, apparently they can. All they need is a compliant Court Judge in their back pocket willing to give them everything they ask for. This cannot be allowed to happen. They must be stopped or they will be holding us in complete financial servitude.
 
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More importantly you can read the comments from the BC Courts without any selective biased editing by anyone.

Real World, we knew where you were headed. We saw you as a champion of the dark-side right off. Those were, in fact, leading questions and you, you wanted us to believe they were naive questions. Your previous indignation was all a front covering your embarrassment of having been so transparent.

Your answers are all the same, "Read the Judgement." You never attempt to argue what we see as the individual wrongs. You never point out how we benefit from the each of the steps Northmont has taken to separate us from our money and the holiday time we thought we were buying.
The Judgement to which you so desperately cling, can't see the moral forest for the legal trees. Natural law holds that law and morality are connected. The law is not simply what is enacted in statutes, and if legislation is not moral, then it is not law, and has no authority. “An unjust law is not a true law".
The sum of Northmont's actions speaks loudly.
 

Hotpink

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Legal Costs

These folks at northmont must be forthright.
If you read their 2016 pdf on the 2016 maintenance costs there is a blurb on page two (2) about legal costs.

Condensed version is that they hope that the resolution with the bad owners ( actually lease holders ) that will generate sufficient interest and legal charges to cover all the costs that northmont has incurred on behalf of all the good owners. BUT there is a Caveat . They do say that is a risk and that may not be the outcome. HERE IT COMES.

There will be a line item A ONE time charge to spread to ALL owners in 2017/ 2018. If I read that correctly those that paid to stay ( the good owners ) as we had initially contemplated they are going to get hit yet again and then let us see what the delinquency rate rises to.

I think the long term plan is to sell off the assets for the original northmont investors and we believe that crew could care less about the people that are
/ were the backbone of the original resort.

So they are telling us to expect more hands out demands ( that is forthright) but not what will really happen in the end (that would be upright)

But weasels never tell you before they kill all your poultry
 
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Real World

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Real World, we knew where you were headed. We saw you as a champion of the dark-side right off. Those were, in fact, leading questions and you, you wanted us to believe they were naive questions. Your previous indignation was all a front covering your embarrassment of having been so transparent.

Your answers are all the same, "Read the Judgement." You never attempt to argue what we see as the individual wrongs. You never point out how we benefit from the each of the steps Northmont has taken to separate us from our money and the holiday time we thought we were buying.
The Judgement to which you so desperately cling, can't see the moral forest for the legal trees. Natural law holds that law and morality are connected. The law is not simply what is enacted in statutes, and if legislation is not moral, then it is not law, and has no authority. “An unjust law is not a true law".
The sum of Northmont's actions speaks loudly.

Just Looking Around I am no one's champion; not Northmont's nor your's.

I have no idea where you come up with your comment about "previous indignation"or "embarrassment of having been so transparent".

With regards to the comment "Your answers are all the same""read the judgement" I would invite you to show me the answers reflecting that.

The way for you to do that is to click on my name on the left hand side of my posts and select posts. You then can see all the posts made by me since I registered in 2015.

Your comment "You never point out how we benefit from the each of the steps Northmont has taken to separate us from our money and the holiday time we thought we were buying." has really got me baffled. I have never thought of being sued as a benefit but maybe I have missed something.

In any event as I indicated in my previous post I think it is important for everyone to have access to information without anyone's selective editing or hyperbole added. What anyone does with that information is their business.
 

GypsyOne

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Just Looking Around I am no one's champion; not Northmont's nor your's.

In any event as I indicated in my previous post I think it is important for everyone to have access to information without anyone's selective editing or hyperbole added. What anyone does with that information is their business.

Selective editing and hyperbole are very subjective terms. It is not selective editing in a negative way if it is people highlighting the critical issues and being very, very, angry at the injustice of opportunists trampling on the integrity of a lease/contract for their own financial benefit. And why are you not equally troubled by Northmont's "selective editing"?
 

ERW

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Real World, we knew where you were headed. We saw you as a champion of the dark-side right off. Those were, in fact, leading questions and you, you wanted us to believe they were naive questions. Your previous indignation was all a front covering your embarrassment of having been so transparent.

Your answers are all the same, "Read the Judgement." You never attempt to argue what we see as the individual wrongs. You never point out how we benefit from the each of the steps Northmont has taken to separate us from our money and the holiday time we thought we were buying.
The Judgement to which you so desperately cling, can't see the moral forest for the legal trees. Natural law holds that law and morality are connected. The law is not simply what is enacted in statutes, and if legislation is not moral, then it is not law, and has no authority. “An unjust law is not a true law".
The sum of Northmont's actions speaks loudly.

I don't think Just Looking Around's comment was out of line. I read it as if you don't want Sunchaser's comments, don't go to the Sunchaser site, go directly to the BC court's site and read the actual judgment.

I think you are reading a little too much into his/her comments.
 
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Get real, Real World.

Real World, who do you think you are fooling. You've done nothing but champion Northmont's cause through your leading questions and transparent comments. You telling us to go to the Sunchaser website to, "...read the comments from the BC Courts without any selective bias editing by anyone." is the same as you telling us we are wrong. It's an indirect expression of disagreement.

WE'VE READ THE JUDGEMENT!

Despite your implication, we are not so stupid as to form our opinions without having read the original document. You are reading our opinions, based on our reading of that original. I'm sure Punter, Hotpink, Quadmaniac, GypsyOne, aden2, Scammed22, Lostmyshirt, ERW, truthr, NotWhatIPaidFor, pdoff, Southcom, James Hildec and owner1 along with the many, many others who post and those who choose just to review, have all read it.
In case you've missed it, I'm bloody mad. So when someone chirps from the sidelines, clearly on the side of owner1, with whom I am fighting, you bet I'm going to judge.

You want to promote Northmont's cause, send them an email. Stroke Northmont all you want, but we don't want to witness it.
 

Real World

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Selective editing and hyperbole are very subjective terms. It is not selective editing in a negative way if it is people highlighting the critical issues and being very, very, angry at the injustice of opportunists trampling on the integrity of a lease/contract for their own financial benefit. And why are you not equally troubled by Northmont's "selective editing"?

GypsyOne I have never stated or inferred that Northmont's summary of the BC Court Judgments were not subject to selective editing. My comment was that you could review the Judgments without selective editing and hyperbole.

In retrospect what I should have said is that you could review the Judgments without any litigants selective editing and hyperbole.
 

Real World

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Real World, who do you think you are fooling. You've done nothing but champion Northmont's cause through your leading questions and transparent comments. You telling us to go to the Sunchaser website to, "...read the comments from the BC Courts without any selective bias editing by anyone." is the same as you telling us we are wrong. It's an indirect expression of disagreement.

WE'VE READ THE JUDGEMENT!

Despite your implication, we are not so stupid as to form our opinions without having read the original document. You are reading our opinions, based on our reading of that original. I'm sure Punter, Hotpink, Quadmaniac, GypsyOne, aden2, Scammed22, Lostmyshirt, ERW, truthr, NotWhatIPaidFor, pdoff, Southcom, James Hildec and owner1 along with the many, many others who post and those who choose just to review, have all read it.
In case you've missed it, I'm bloody mad. So when someone chirps from the sidelines, clearly on the side of owner1, with whom I am fighting, you bet I'm going to judge.

You want to promote Northmont's cause, send them an email. Stroke Northmont all you want, but we don't want to witness it.

Just Looking Around it is obvious that you think that you can make any comments you like without having any way of substantiating the comments.

You go out of your way to make broad sweeping comments about my posts but cannot show what you based your comments on when I invite you to because you cannot.

I have been following the thread for over a year not less than month like you so you should think about who is chirping from the sidelines.

You have no clue about what my personal interest is in the dispute nor has anyone else who accuses me of me being aligned with the "Dark Side"

In closing if you don't want to witness what I have to say don't look at my posts.
 
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Just Looking Around it is obvious that you think that you can make any comments you like without having any way of substantiating the comments.

You go out of your way to make broad sweeping comments about my posts but cannot show what you based your comments on when I invite you to because you cannot.

I have been following the thread for over a year not less than month like you so you should think about who is chirping from the sidelines.

You have no clue about what my personal interest is in the dispute nor has anyone else who accuses me of me being aligned with the "Dark Side"

In closing if you don't want to witness what I have to say don't look at my posts.

No, it absolutely is you Real World who is chirping from the sidelines. What do you own? We don't even know what you are pretending to own. Why didn't you put down what you owned when you signed up? I mean it's not like Kirk Wankel is going to track you down and threaten you with a lawsuit. That's on this board. Did you read that? Who's money do you think he'll use to pay for that legal action?

You say you've been following for a year? That don't impress me much. I read a year's worth of posts in an evening.

Your first post was April 02. Since then you've posted 9-times. The last 7-post have been defending your first two posts. Those attacks weren't from just me. The best one was from GypseOne, who put a very fine point on it with, “Nice Try.”

Your first post, after reading the site for a year, was a Pollyannaish offering about the downside of owning a timeshare. But we know it was your veiled attempt to say, "You signed the contract, you have to pay the yearly fees." Yes, again, we know the Company Line. We get that formally from the World of Warcraft himself.

Your second post, despite having read this bulletin board for a year, was another Pollyannaish offering asking about special assessments and the reason Justice Loo's decision was overturned on Appeal. This was your way of saying, “Read your lease"; and, "You only won the Appeal on a technicality."

That's it. That's all you've said. A year in, that's the sum of your contribution. Sounds a lot like chirping to me. Tell us all again how you aren't championing Mr. Wankel’s cause.

Maybe either Punter or GypsyOne is from Edmonton. They could meet you for a game of golf. I've got an idea. I will fly to Edmonton and, I will pay for golf at either the Mayfair or the Glendale. To make it interesting, the loser has to accept the winner's Sunchaser timeshare interests. Don't have one to lose? No problem. If I lose, you can kick me in the nuts: the pain and indignation is a reminder I own at Sunchaser. It's the same thing. Except the pain passes, unlike "Legacy for Life". We could sell tickets to help fund the legal defence.

Don't worry, owning a vacation interval interest at Sunchaser is a great investment. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. You and owner1 can sit on the plastic deck furniture and share a whine. Why just yell across the office and ask Kirk Wankel. He'll probably tell you they are considered collector's items BECAUSE THEY AREN'T EVEN TRYING TO SELL ANY!
 

GypsyOne

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What's your point?

GypsyOne I have never stated or inferred that Northmont's summary of the BC Court Judgments were not subject to selective editing. My comment was that you could review the Judgments without selective editing and hyperbole.

In retrospect what I should have said is that you could review the Judgments without any litigants selective editing and hyperbole.

Your informing us that we can all read the judgement and form our own ideas is not exactly earth shaking. Of course we read the judgement and formed opinions. Then it is time to draw conclusions and summarize the salient points for public consumption in a public forum. It is not selective editing. Not everyone wants to wade through 106 pages of what sometimes is nothing more than legal mumbo-jumbo, which may appear learned and final, but in fact it is not. The legalize has to be condensed to the main message and conclusion. If you think our anger over the 100% rulings in favor of the Defendant is hyperbole, excuse us for getting angry over an egregious injustice.

You also seem to think that Fitzpatrick's ruling is somehow irrefutable truth. But, one such as me has not been a long-time inhabitant of this spinning orb without developing some healthy skepticism. I also know that where there is money there is influence; and where there is big money there is big influence. (Lawyers at Norton Rose tried to cosy up to our lawyer and even asked him "to join the team," and they would direct legal work his way, which of course he declined.) Judges are human, they can be biased, and they can be influenced. I'm not saying the judge was paid off. The Judge or Northmont would not be that stupid. But, a luncheon meeting between a high official within Northmont and a well placed B.C. government official to lay out the problem could occur. The B.C. government does not want a failed major tourist attraction on it's hands. Nor would they want to pump public money into a shoddily built failing commercial facility. The easy way out is to tap into the TS owners. So the government official then has a meeting with a high placed person within the judicial system and advises that the B.C. government would sure hate to see Northmont fail. The high placed person in the justice system then whispers into the Judge's ear that the Government does not want Northmont to fail. There are some plum court assignments and promotions coming up. Conspiracy theory? Maybe. I don't know if this happened. I'm only speculating. But, as I said, I've been on this planet a long time, part at the management level within government, and I have developed some skepticism.

Even after wading through the legalize and cherry-picked case law, I find it incomprehensible that Fitzpatrick could reach the conclusions that she did. To wit:

- Fitzpatrick's ruling holds the TS owners responsible for the re-constuction of shoddily built resort buildings, in some cases not built to code. Buildings that should have a lifetime of 50-60 years or longer are failing after only fifteen years, and Fitzpatrick says we're responsible. The thought does not seem to occur to her that the builder has a legal and fiduciary duty to market a sound product to the public built to normal construction standards, and that when they don't, it is misrepresentation resulting in fundamental breach of contract. Astonishing!
- My contract is a lease. Lessees are not responsible for capital or structural replacement. I don't buy her arguement that ours are not like ordinary commercial leases. A lease is a lease is a lease.
- My lease does not specify "capital costs" in the list of expenses. That capital replacement is somehow included in one of the other catch-all items just does not wash. For example, a relatively minor expense such as insurance is included in a separate line item. Surely, if it was meant to be, capital replacement or major reconstruction that could amount to, say, $50 million dollars would be front and center in the list of expenses so as to not leave any doubt.
- Why after the bankruptcy and the takeover by the new owners, did they try to have lessees convert to co-ownership agreements with new contracts that added the clause, "pay the cost of capital improvements that may from time to time be required." The reason is clear to everyone but Her Ladyship; the original lease agreements did not include capital costs, nor was it ever intended that lessees be responsible for capital improvements.
- My lease gives a formula for settlement in the event I default. Basically, I forfeit the timeshare and they pay me for remaining time at a discounted rate. Fairmont says they don't have to follow the clause in the agreement, but rather I forfeit the timeshare AND pay them a sum of money. In effect paying for the timeshare twice, but being done out of the timeshare.
- Fitzpatrick takes the liberty of combining all leases and co-ownership agreements into one category which, of course, is the one most advantageous to Northmont. Yet it is her that admonishes us to follow the ordinary wording in the agreement. She has, in effect, made everyone financially responsible for all costs including major construction and reconstruction as if they were owners, but without having the financial benefit of ownership. Where is the justice? Where is the common sense?
- My lease states that a Lessee's Association would be formed, or in the case of the co-ownership agreements, an Owners' Association. One was never formed - a breach of contract. Major financial responsibility without representation violates all principles of business associations.
- The latest arrogance of Northmont is, with Fitzpatrick's ruling in hand, to convert all leases prior to 2003 to the 2003 lease. With the sending of an email they think they can nullify my lease that I signed in 2000 to that of a stranger's agreement who signed in 2003. The arrogance is just astonishing.

So, Real World, I don't know what alternate universe you live in, but it's not the same one as me.
 
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