[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

[xplor]

I don't understand what you are trying to say; It's my fault? I said that. I signed the contract. I took full responsibility for making the bad decision to sign a lease at Sunchaser. I kissed my $20,000 Goodbye.

Do you have to ask if I want to leave? Maybe it's me or maybe it's you, but I'm surprised I haven't made myself clear.

Let me try to make this clear. I've lived up to my part of the bargain. The Developer and the Managers didn't live up to their part of the bargain. It's that simple. This fact has been lost in the myriad of details created by the litany of corporate maneuverings. Each single move taken by itself has just enough semblance of sense. But, when you look at them together, in their entirety over time, they lose their disguise, a very thin veneer of well-intentioned purpose. What's being disguised is a progressive erosion of the interests of the lease-holders in favor of the Developer and Managers. It's a continuous exploitation of the lease-holders by holding them for ransom, for as long as this fantasy role-playing game of Northmont's is allowed to continue. (If this is your case, I guess it is like paying anything else, buyer beware what you are buying and signing)Way more people have paid to leave or not paid at all, than have paid to stay. One doesn't have to be a Supreme Court Judge to understand: "THE VOTES ARE IN, SUNCHASER SUCKS!" (your opinion)It's conclusive; Northmont cannot successfully manage a resort property.(these issue started long before Northmont took over the mess. They were simply the deliverer of the news of the resort and the solutions only. It seems to me it is them that are managing the issues properly and well as should have been before they took in bankruptcy.) It's self-evident in the numbers. No explanation or interpretation is necessary.[/COLOR]

They have a contractual obligation, a fiduciary responsibility, to serve the interests of the lease-holders. They abrogated their contractual obligation. Tell me how that isn't a material breach of the contract? That is the definition of a prima facie case. (tell me how it is, the judge didn't think it was)
Don't feel the need to reply. I already know what you are going to say, "You won, they lost." "Read the VIA's. Read the Judgement. The Litigation Group's Lawyer did a bad job. One in four lease-holders is a lay-about just looking for a free ride." That's all you have said. (you said it, I didn't have to)The CEO of Northmont is an accountant. It's an old joke among the squints I know; you are only one entry away from balancing. Northmont would do well to remember that. Balance and justice can be just that close.

It is what it is and your new reality for your choice.

 

[Maritimer]

It is time to move past the mud-slinging. We are in this together.

The reality is that the solution proposed by Northwynd is the best alternative in a bad situation. The other options are not pretty and guarantee everyone looses. We all signed contracts and share the liabilities we never expected to become reality.

It seems like a lot of money but, it is the only reasonable alternative to excessively higher maintenance fees in the future to keep patching-up and fixing. At least this way, we will have a quality, tradable resort when the major renovations are completed. A win-win for everyone.

 

[Punter]

It is time to move past the mud-slinging. We are in this together.

The reality is that the solution proposed by Northwynd is the best alternative in a bad situation. The other options are not pretty and guarantee everyone looses. We all signed contracts and share the liabilities we never expected to become reality.

It seems like a lot of money but, it is the only reasonable alternative to excessively higher maintenance fees in the future to keep patching-up and fixing. At least this way, we will have a quality, tradable resort when the major renovations are completed. A win-win for everyone.

This is far from a win-win situation. What about the people who paid to leave? How did they win? They paid thousands of dollars to "get out", forfeiting not only a 15-20k dollar investment but a 10-20 year investment in future family vacations. That money did not go into the resort, it went straight into Northmont/REIT's pockets - 20 million$ So just one winner there.
And the people that paid to stay? With Fitzpatrick's judgement, Northmont can change the the contract and spend freely under the guise of operating expenses. They wanna put in a zoo? Guess who gets to pay for the elephants. They wanna buy houseboats? Well that one's been done. Northmont can also make the decision as to when the resort is too small to operate. Current owners are getting nervous. Have you looked at the amount of Sunchaser villas for sale? On just two sites there are over 80 listings where the asking price ranges from 600$ - 15K for their week/points. Do you know what they're worth? They're worth (minus)- 3800$ thanks entirely to Northmont's 'pay to leave' scheme. Will the people who paid to stay win? Not without a huge cost.

 

[Lostmyshirt]

Worst investment ever. May as well burn money

Up until this ridiculous reno fee we paid our fees every year and on time. We watched the resorts and boats come and go and NEVER was able to access any of it but am damn sure we contributed to it. When the reno fee was sent out or the Pay to leave option we were pissed to say the least. Because of a bunch of gross mismanagement we now pay to fix up something we don't own, something we don't get any proceeds back from as they sell off pieces of it, which if we did OWN the responsibilities of repairs do we not the OWN the revenues from it????. Should all that money paid to exit then go back into the "common fund" of remaining owners??? I don't believe the majority is happily using their timeshare and whats to stop the Wankle group from slapping more and more fees on our backs. At least when I sell my house I get the proceeds for it. Here I have to pay them to take the fricking thing and they benefit. They've pocketed all the exit fees to do what???? with??? Pay themselves first of course. If you buy a rundown piece of crap house you will pay the price accordingly. If you take on a huge resort very rundown you pay acccordingly but we sure didn't see our fees reflect that. You don't pay high prices for something needing a ton of work. BUT you take on the risk and expense. You don't take it on and try to stick all the RENTERS with the costs. If that was the case in a rental situation the RENTERS would simply move out. RENTERS/AKA leasers do not OWN OR BENEFIT FROM OWNERSHIP of the building. And you don't get your contracts changed without any consultation. Something is dreadfully wrong here. Some judge needs her friggin head examined.

 

[xplor]

This is far from a win-win situation. What about the people who paid to leave? How did they win? They paid thousands of dollars to "get out", forfeiting not only a 15-20k dollar investment but a 10-20 year investment in future family vacations. (at least they were given a choice to leave and not pay future annual maint. fees which many had stopped using TS's altogether for whatever reasons, this made them winners because they don't own 3 years of interest now as some do) That money did not go into the resort,(wild lies and speculation yet again to make people believe what you are telling them the truth, how can you prove this, other than another wild and false speculation. In fact the money went into the resort, if your auditor, accountant checked) it went straight into Northmont/REIT's pockets - 20 million$ So just one winner there. (again, shooting off at the mouth without facts, we know a investor of Northwynd and hasn't seen a dime of his investment from anything to do with Sunchasers and told us they are reinvesting that money into the resort as TS owners were promised)
And the people that paid to stay? With Fitzpatrick's judgement, Northmont can change the the contract and spend freely under the guise of operating expenses. They wanna put in a zoo? Guess who gets to pay for the elephants. They wanna buy houseboats? Well that one's been done. Northmont can also make the decision as to when the resort is too small to operate. Current owners are getting nervous. (again full 100% lies and speculation (without merit) to try to scare TS owners. If this happened, it would be a breach of the contract and a fraud. Anything to do with houseboats were under the Fairmont/Knight fiasco prior to and went into the bankruptcy., before Northmont, so you better get some facts into your posts if you are going to have any creditability other they simply spouting off).Have you looked at the amount of Sunchaser villas for sale? On just two sites there are over 80 listings where the asking price ranges from 600$ - 15K for their week/points. Do you know what they're worth? They're worth (minus)- 3800$ thanks entirely to Northmont's 'pay to leave' scheme. Will the people who paid to stay win? Not without a huge cost.

As we have seen others on this site try and sell their TS's without telling the perspective buyers about the fees owing to transfer the ownership. This is a fraud some they are attempting to pull off. If new owners paid the fees, they would be the winners if they got it at a good price, because they would have a TS to enjoy.

 

[Just Looking Around]

This is far from a win-win situation. What about the people who paid to leave? How did they win? They paid thousands of dollars to "get out", forfeiting not only a 15-20k dollar investment but a 10-20 year investment in future family vacations. That money did not go into the resort, it went straight into Northmont/REIT's pockets - 20 million$ So just one winner there.
And the people that paid to stay? With Fitzpatrick's judgement, Northmont can change the the contract and spend freely under the guise of operating expenses. They wanna put in a zoo? Guess who gets to pay for the elephants. They wanna buy houseboats? Well that one's been done. Northmont can also make the decision as to when the resort is too small to operate. Current owners are getting nervous. Have you looked at the amount of Sunchaser villas for sale? On just two sites there are over 80 listings where the asking price ranges from 600$ - 15K for their week/points. Do you know what they're worth? They're worth (minus)- 3800$ thanks entirely to Northmont's 'pay to leave' scheme. Will the people who paid to stay win? Not without a huge cost.

BAZINGA! Well said.

 

[Just Looking Around]

As we have seen others on this site try and sell their TS's without telling the perspective buyers about the fees owing to transfer the ownership. This is a fraud some they are attempting to pull off. If new owners paid the fees, they would be the winners if they got it at a good price, because they would have a TS to enjoy.

OH THE IRONY! Are you warning a TS Owner at Sunchaser that they are legally obligated to disclose physical defects in the property and if it comes with a clear title? :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:
You are sounding like the Property Manager or Developer.

 

[Just Looking Around]

It is what it is and your new reality for your choice.

Your response to my issues with Sunchaser is, "Buyer Beware." That's it? That's your comeback?

That's an admission on your part that the resort is not worth what we paid. You are directly implying your agreement that we are the victims of the misrepresentation and legal maneuverings performed by Northmont and its predecessors. You've equated the succession of Managers to a used car dealer that turns back odometers. If I buy a car from a REPUTABLE dealer, it comes with a warranty that the dealership (Property Manager) and the manufacturer (Developer) will stand behind. I don't get told 'Buyer Beware.'

You say it is only my opinion that the Sunchaser Experience Sucks! As if! Add up the number of people who have left, the number who refuse to pay and, those like me who have paid but will not ever pay another dime to Northmont. That's a veritable army. It's an army that is willing to continue this fight.

You say that Northmont is just the messenger, that these issues existed long before Northmont. ITS VIRTUALLY THE SAME PEOPLE. THEY JUST CHANGED THE CORPORATE NAMES. They morphed into yet another corporate entity to distance themselves from the past, escape legal repercussions, transfer assets and portray themselves as the savior of the Resort. (Geez, I hate to call it that, a resort. It's not a resort of course.)

You know the background. Why don't you tell us about Dunvegan Petroleum and their involvement from day one? And, why is a petroleum company not in the petroleum business? Tell us about Mr. Knight's involvement. Please, tell me I'm wrong. Tell me the same people haven't pulled the strings from day one. Didn't Mr. Knight sell it to, Mr. Knight?

 

[Punter]

Dear xplor: NOT wild lies and speculation

QUOTE=Northwynd CC;1582224]Cancellation fees have never been for the renovation and we have never suggested they are. The cancellation fee is a payment to Northmont as developer for agreeing to terminate your lease/ownership....


That response is from Northmont themselves, post #1306. The resort did not see any of that 20 million from the cancellation fees. Where do you think it went?
No need to comment on the rest of your post as its summed up beautifully above. Now go outside, find a patio and enjoy this beautiful spring weather with a nice cold beer.

 

[Hotpink]

Dunvegan

Here is the creditor list from 2010 follow the link

http://documentcentre.eycan.com/eycm... Package.pdf

You will note that the address for Collin Knight and Dunvegan petroleum are all the same

Dunvegan petroleum still lists Mr. Knight as President and CEO and MS Wong as administrative manager located in SW Calgary.

Fairmont owed a lot of money to Collin and his company. Never mind who some of the other players were.

 

[Hotpink]

link

hope this works

http://documentcentre.eycan.com/eyc...t Properties Ltd/FRP - Bankruptcy Package.pdf

 

[GypsyOne]

It is time to move past the mud-slinging. We are in this together.

The reality is that the solution proposed by Northwynd is the best alternative in a bad situation. The other options are not pretty and guarantee everyone looses. We all signed contracts and share the liabilities we never expected to become reality.

It seems like a lot of money but, it is the only reasonable alternative to excessively higher maintenance fees in the future to keep patching-up and fixing. At least this way, we will have a quality, tradable resort when the major renovations are completed. A win-win for everyone.

NO! NO! NO! The Northmont proposal is not the best alternative. You sound like we should all be joining hands, singing Kum Ba Yah, and jumping off the cliff together. You must be someone who go suckered into paying the renovation fee and now you will be partners with these white collar bandits for the remaining term of your lease if you are a lessee, or forever if you are a co-owner. Now you want more suckers to join in to keep your costs down. The Northmont proposal is the worst possible alternative. You're dreaming if you think this is the last money grab and then we all enjoy life at Fairmont forever more. Ain't going to happen. Poorly constructed buildings are still poorly constructed buildings no matter how much lipstick you apply. They will continue to rapidly deteriorate and maintenance fees and reconstruction costs will continue to escalate. Lessees should not have the responsibility of ownership but have none of the benefits. Similarly, lessees and co-owners should not have the responsibility of ownership but not have a voice in management. We bought time in a time share resort, we did not buy the resort. Northmont may temporarily have a friendly judge in their back pocket. This horrible decision needs to be fought to the gates of hell if that's what is necessary to get justice.

 

[Beaverjfw]

Northmont Makes a Settlement Offer!!

If you haven't got it yet, its coming!
Yes, a settlement offer from Northmont.
Now they are offering to let you off the hook for only $11,500.(one week TS) You can walk away from your $12,000 "investment" just by giving Northmont another $11.5 and let them have the real estate for free. Add another $1000 if your overlooked paying for 2013 fees.
If you decide to stay with the resort, its actually cheaper! Just $11,000. You won't get get back those three years of missed vacations either.
This choice lets Northmont downsize the resort and re-write your contract just about anyway they want. You can then hang in there and pay your annual dues for another 15-20 years and pay "whatever it costs" as you will be solely responsible.
What fun!

 

[Just Looking Around]

QUOTE=Northwynd CC;1582224]Cancellation fees have never been for the renovation and we have never suggested they are. The cancellation fee is a payment to Northmont as developer for agreeing to terminate your lease/ownership....


Thank you, Punter, Thank you Hotpink and Thank you GypseOne. "Cancellation fees have never been for the renovation ..." As I mentioned we didn't get a hard copy so we don't know how cancellation fees were calculated. It would be interesting to know if it included any mention of maintenance fees. Because, if it went straight to Northmont as the Developer (notice this is Sunchaser's terminology) and not the renovation, why would there be any maintenance fee attached? I would interpret it as a blatant money grab. That is of course if the Cancellation Fee included any Maintenance Fees. $20-million. Think about it. $20-million from cancellations alone.
I doubt there will ever be or they'd ever cooperate with a forensic audit but, the original investors have to be operating in the black now.

 

[Quadmaniac]

If you haven't got it yet, its coming!
Yes, a settlement offer from Northmont.
Now they are offering to let you off the hook for only $11,500.(one week TS) You can walk away from your $12,000 "investment" just by giving Northmont another $11.5 and let them have the real estate for free. Add another $1000 if your overlooked paying for 2013 fees.
If you decide to stay with the resort, its actually cheaper! Just $11,000. You won't get get back those three years of missed vacations either.
This choice lets Northmont downsize the resort and re-write your contract just about anyway they want. You can then hang in there and pay your annual dues for another 15-20 years and pay "whatever it costs" as you will be solely responsible.
What fun!

I got the email today and replied back they can go screw themselves! They can keep dreaming if they think they will see a cent of that.

 

[Ty1on]

What a mess.

 

[Just Looking Around]

Now they are offering to let you off the hook for only $11,500.(one week TS) You can walk away from your $12,000 "investment" just by giving Northmont another $11.5 and let them have the real estate for free.
What fun!

I have posted enough. I am going home this evening and we'll have that drink that was suggested. But just so you know we are not paying another dime to Sunchaser. Not a dime.

 

[Punter]

Lmfao

If you haven't got it yet, its coming!
Yes, a settlement offer from Northmont.
Now they are offering to let you off the hook for only $11,500.(one week TS) You can walk away from your $12,000 "investment" just by giving Northmont another $11.5 and let them have the real estate for free. Add another $1000 if your overlooked paying for 2013 fees.
If you decide to stay with the resort, its actually cheaper! Just $11,000. You won't get get back those three years of missed vacations either.
This choice lets Northmont downsize the resort and re-write your contract just about anyway they want. You can then hang in there and pay your annual dues for another 15-20 years and pay "whatever it costs" as you will be solely responsible.
What fun!

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

 

[TUGBrian]

clearly didnt learn the "be polite" lesson after the first suspension....so lets have another shall we!

 

[Hotpink]

Renting at Sunchaser

Stage 1
In 2012 we paid our 2013 maintenance fees and had booked to go to the resort in late June and made arrangements for the reno fee. Then came the floods and no way to get there except by going up and over the Yellowhead and down to Kamloops and a lot of backtracking to get there. Or going down to number 3 through the Crowsnest and back up. Neither being a very viable alternative. Customer service was less than helpful in helping us to solve the issue and we were told if you can't get there you will lose it and there is no option for you. Okay we had no choice but to accept that they chose not to help.

Stage 2. We have not paid any mtce fee since and have not paid either the get out of jail card or the reno feel since then.

Stage 3. We rented a unit in the 8000 building from RCI in 2014 for about $450 Cdn and the place was less than 50% occupied. The rent was about 1/2 of the mtce fee for the same week . We also took the tour of the Show suite in the 800 Building in Riverside. Our Guide was very cordial and very upbeat about the improvements in both the A& B sides. We questioned why the A side which is one bedroom needed to have TWO bathrooms. The B side had a full kitchen and was very open and airy and had an upgraded kitchen and Bathroom. The guide appeared to know nothing about the dispute between the Northmont Calgary office and many of the lessees. We felt they were being honest as we had dealt with that individual many times in the past during our many vacations in the valley.

Stage 4. In 2015 we rented in Panorama for about $475 through RCI and golfed a lot at RS and MS and noted the number of buildings that were already boarded up and not in use in both Hillside and River side and estimated occupancy well less than 40%.

Stage 5 We have looked at renting again through RCI and find that SCV has only TWO units available in April of 16 and ONE in May of 16 and then nothing until October. The other conditions on Rental is that the Outdoor pool will be under construction until June of 16and the indoor pool closed until July of 16.

Either they are booked solid in May, June, July, August and September and have no inventory to give to RCI for the rental pool. Or it may be that they have withdrawn their 42% completely and not paid the maintenance fees on those and have already begun to contact the resort.

Stage 6. If I understand correctly Northmont is offering a settlement of us lessees paying upwards of $11,000 to go and or stay which I can only conclude they want the original pay to stay or pay to go fee plus up 4 FOUR years Mtce fees
and interest at 2% per month. Now that is not much of an inducement to get keen or get into.
I do not to profess to be a financer but I do know that banks try to recoup some of their losses by selling off the possessed asset at pennies on the dollar , not at full retail price plus some kind of restocking charge. If they truly wanted to have us go away then they need to offer an incentive not an accumulative and inflated fee.

Stage 7. We will just rent elsewhere this year and take a look around again.

 

[Scammed22]

Do we live in Canada or a third world country where's the Justice?

It's simple we fight and we don't stop ....If we win we win....if we lose...we win...Because we're saying no to the scum that took advantage of us. We the people bought with a dream...to find peace from the stress at home, and to be with our loving family and friends. Did we get what we paid for? NO! I don't care what anyone says we didn't sign up for this, and neither would any Judge or any timeshare owners if they knew that they were signing up for a nightmare that we now face...which frankly is ridiculous to say the least. I think the more the public knows about this the better... If the justice system doesn't protect the people, and doesn't know right from wrong...I guess that's the real loss...

I will never stop fighting...because I'm a winner even when I'm down...sometimes they don't expect the underdogs to come up from behind...those have always been my best wins...

We need to set an example, and stop this from ever happening in our great country again!

 

[Quadmaniac]

It's simple we fight and we don't stop ....If we win we win....if we lose...we win...Because we're saying no to the scum that took advantage of us. We the people bought with a dream...to find peace from the stress at home, and to be with our loving family and friends. Did we get what we paid for? NO! I don't care what anyone says we didn't sign up for this, and neither would any Judge or any timeshare owners if they knew that they were signing up for a nightmare that we now face...which frankly is ridiculous to say the least. I think the more the public knows about this the better... If the justice system doesn't protect the people, and doesn't know right from wrong...I guess that's the real loss...

I will never stop fighting...because I'm a winner even when I'm down...sometimes they don't expect the underdogs to come up from behind...those have always been my best wins...

We need to set an example, and stop this from ever happening in our great country again!

Yep, well said. That's my thought. We will prevail.

 

[Quadmaniac]

clearly didnt learn the "be polite" lesson after the first suspension....so lets have another shall we!

Gotta give Wankel / Xplor credit for trying to beat us down with rhetoric. He doesn't give up does he ?

 

[TUGBrian]

I dont mind when folks share a different opinion, it makes for healthy debate.

however if you cant argue your point without using curse words or insults, there is no place for you here on TUG.

some folks just cant seem to understand that in an age where the internet lets you be as obnoxious as you want to be 99% of the time.

 

[Quadmaniac]

I dont mind when folks share a different opinion, it makes for healthy debate.

however if you cant argue your point without using curse words or insults, there is no place for you here on TUG.

some folks just cant seem to understand that in an age where the internet lets you be as obnoxious as you want to be 99% of the time.

My thoughts too. It's the people who can't win their argument with reasonable logic, proof, and overall sensibility, that have to resort to insults to distract from the weakness in their viewpoint. But if he can convince a few to bail out of the appeal by hammering his viewpoint, the resort could potentially earn tens of thousands if just a few are swayed by the "you're an idiot for joining the litigation in the first place and even more of a fool if you continue throwing more money down the toilet fighting as you will lose again." argument. It means big money in his pocket so I guess its worth the effort to be pretend to be "a concerned timeshare owner who paid their dues and enjoying the resort" giving his "honest" opinion.