[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

[GypsyOne]

Yes, judges can be unpredictable and you never know what other factors or politics will influence their decisions. But based on the merits of our case, I am optimistic of a favourable ruling, although I expect the final ruling will not come at the next hearing which is scheduled for July 12.

We always knew Mr. Wankel would try to pull the numbers game, as flawed as that approach might be, in order to influence the judge for a favourable ruling. But lets keep in mind the judicial system is not based on democracy, it is based on the rule of law. Therefore it doesn't matter how many of the majority remain silent, it will be contract law, precedents, and the strength of our argument that will determine the outcome. There is certainly no doubt the Companies are guilty of a number of breeches of contract and misrepresentations.

As an example of how extraneous are the relative numbers, take a real life example that occurred some time ago. I forget the exact numbers so I'll paraphrase to make the point. Some of the chartered banks were found guilty of calculating compound interest incorrectly. Out of, lets say 100,000 customers, say 99,995 were oblivious and just paid what they were billed. The other five recognized the error and took the banks to court and won. The fact that 99,995 said nothing was not proof of approval for bank policy. Ultimately it is truth and the rule of law that wins the day.

Incidentally, Mr. Wankel has filed a second affidavit with the court and the lawyers for our side have the opportunity on July 5th to depose him (interview and question him). The lawyers should have a fun day!

Let's make sure we hang in together. If you haven't signed up with one of the lawyers or groups, I understand it's still not too late. Complete a Form 67 and an affidavit and get it into the court. Together we can defeat this injustice for a quite small cost per individual.

 

[Meow]

If this turns into a class action lawsuit I believe the people that haven't signed up will be SOL. At that point they will have to hire their own lawyer and fees could be much higher for them.

I understand that not all the lawyers representing the varous groups of timeshare lessees/owners support the class action route. I hope this disagreement does not add confusion and delay in the legal process.

 

[tdjanzen]

I understand that not all the lawyers representing the varous groups of timeshare lessees/owners support the class action route. I hope this disagreement does not add confusion and delay in the legal process.

At this time, I do not believe that this suit is at all a "class action suit". the representation that I hired (to my understanding) is representing a group of us for this action and this action only. They are bringing forward the concerns of the timeshare owners that don't want to choose either Choose to Stay or Bugger off.

However, depending on what the judge rules, it will become more clear as to how timeshare owners can react. I suspect that the various iterations of the timeshare contracts may be interpreted differently as to what Northwynd can and cannot do.

As well, different timeshare owners are going to react differently. Honestly, if I can get out without having to drop additional funds. I am gone. I don't have any damages and therefore I couldn't participate in any further litigation. Legacy for Life participants probably will want to show bad faith and damages.

I feel sorry for those that want the place to continue because half of me believes that Northwynd wants us to leave and then they get the land. Can you imagine how many houses/condos that they could place on the existing footprint and even more if you include the golf course. The other half of me thinks that Northwynd is just in it for the short term money grab and will disappear long before the construction is completed (and good luck trying to get your money back from them).

Just my $0.02. Hopefully, everyone who booked for this summer will get a chance to use their reservation and at least get some money worth from their annual maintenance fee.

 

[oneworldonerace]

Past behaviour dictates future behaviour - Northwynd's greed and fraud

Mexico has pages of angry Northwynd Timeshare owners postings over fraudulent business practices and money grabs.

Below are two articles reported on the business dealings of Northwynd and Makaha Resort in Hawaii. The first article is about Northwynd selling one of the Makaha Resort 18 hole golf courses in 2011. The second article is about Northwynd's sale of the golf course, it's loan of 6.8 million and being sued by Pacific Links LLC for default in 2013.

Apr 25, 2011, 2:46pm HST
Northwynd Resort sells Makaha Resort & Golf Club
Pacific Business News
Northwynd Resort Properties Ltd., the owner of Makaha Resort & Golf Club, has sold the resort’s 18-hole golf course to Hawaiian Golf Properties LLC.
The sale closed earlier this month for an undisclosed amount; it is the first step in redeveloping the 173-room resort, according to Kelly Cuff, Makaha Resort & Golf Club’s general manager.
Cuff told PBN that plans for the resort’s renovation are currently in progress, but a start date has yet to be determined.
Separately, the 7,040-yard golf Mar 4, 2013, 7:20am HST
Pacific Links Hawaii files foreclosure on Makaha Hotel and Resort

Mar 4, 2013, 7:20am HSTPacific Business News
An affiliate of Pacific Links Hawaii, which owns the two Makaha golf courses in Leeward Oahu, has filed a lawsuit to foreclose on the shuttered Makaha Hotel and Resort after the hotel owner was unable to secure additional financing to renovate the property.
Hawaiian Golf Properties LLC, which does business as Pacific Links Hawaii, had loaned $6.8 million to the 173-room hotel's Canada-based owner, Northwynd Resort Properties Ltd., which closed the hotel in October 2011 as it worked to secure more financing for a major renovation of the property.
Pacific Links bought the 255-acre Makaha Valley West course in 2011 and acquired the 145-acre East course at the Makaha Valley Country Club from developer Jeff Stone in April 2012.
The foreclosure, filed last week, does not affect the golf operations, Pacific Links said.
"It is very unfortunate that Makaha Hotel and Resort was unable to secure the financing to reignite hotel operations," Micah Kane, chief operating officer of Pacific Links Hawaii, said in a statement. "However, we will use this as an opportunity to pursue a more comprehensive, community-based approach to developing a truly sustainable economic plan for Makaha Valley."
Read More at Pacific Business News will be temporarily closed for renovations beginning on May 14. A reopening date was not immediately available.
Calgary, Can.-based Northwynd Resort Properties Ltd. owns a total of eight resorts in Belize, Canada, Mexico and the United States.
Industries: Commercial Real Estate, Sports Business

Northwynd sold the golf course, borrowed 6.8 million, and still didn't come up with a solution for it's timeshare owners. I wonder where the money went, why they closed the entire resort, and why they are now being sued in Hawaii - coincidence?

Northwynd wants approximately 42 million for a renovation at Riverside and Hillside for a phantom project that has no back up - no engineered drawings no formal written plans, no completed estimates of the buildings to be demolished or refurbished - no guarantees of any repairs or long term viability no matter how this turns out.

I leave it with the lawyers. I lose whether I stay or go, but I will not pay because someone presents an affidavit. Presented in truth, partial truth or outright fraud, once a sworn affidavit is presented to the courts it becomes truth until proven otherwise.

Money to rebuild is not the issue - greed, lies and fraud are the issues and Northwnd is becoming a master on all counts.

 

[Meow]

Will any of this about Mexico and Hawaii be placed before the judge and if so, will it be considered relevant to our case?

 

[oneworldonerace]

I did send the links on the Hawaiian Makaha case to my lawyer. I am currently using Geldert law firm. I am not sure if it is being used at this time or not.

 

[DarkLord]

http://sunchaservillas.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Cleaner-1994-Lease-Redacted.pdf

If you look at our contract, paragraph 8, the only items Northwynd can bill the owners are things like furniture and office equipment. This is a far cry from the fondation repairment or poly B pipes replacement Northwynd is billing us now. And also a far cry from 5 star renovation of the resort Northwyn had in mind on paper.

 

[DarkLord]

Some of the chartered banks were found guilty of calculating compound interest incorrectly. Out of, lets say 100,000 customers, say 99,995 were oblivious and just paid what they were billed. The other five recognized the error and took the banks to court and won.

You are probably reffering to something like the Markson Credit.

http://www.thestar.com/business/per...ays_8_million_to_settle_credit_card_suit.html

I and many many people pay extra on interest on my MBNA card. But that doesn't mean MBNA is in the clear. One guy, Markson took MBNA to court and won. In law, size doesn't not matter.

 

[DarkLord]

Incidentally, Mr. Wankel has filed a second affidavit with the court and the lawyers for our side have the opportunity on July 5th to depose him (interview and question him). The lawyers should have a fun day!

I've read the 2nd Wankel affidavit which is not currently on Sunchaser's website. Wankel kept making arguments asking the court to release cancellation fee and renovation fee collected so far held in trust by Norton Rose. Wankel said the GST collected so far is about $369K which means the cancellation and renovation fee collected so far would be in the $7M-$8M range (out of the possible $40M).

The troubling sign is that Wankel said if Northmount couldn't get assess to this $7M to $8M, the resort will be bankrupt by 2013 Q3 which is a few months from now.

But aren't the $7M to $8M fee collected supposed to be use to renovate the resort instead of paying for ongoing expenses and some debt the resort owes Northwynd?

 

[MFD]

I am curious if there are any Riverview owners on here. To refresh everyone's memory, Riverview (not to be confused with the oldest units called Riverside) units were those closest to the bridge and were the newest having granite countertops and the most modern features. One of the selling points of those units was the exclusivity of having the option to stay in any of the units at either Riverview, Riverside or Hillside but conversely, those that bought into Riverside or Hillside could not book into the units at Riverview.

So my question is did those that bought into the Riverview units, were they also asked to contribute to the renovation plan to upgrade the older units? One could argue that the more modern units at Riverview may not need extensive renovations and could be excluded.

When we purchased our timeshare, which was only a couple of years ago, we were told we were purchasing the newest units, which would be Riverview. When we actually went to use it, they put us in Hillside, when I told them that we were supposed to be in Riverview, they said that Hillside was newer and we were getting a nicer unit. At the time, I had no idea, so didn't argue. They tell us one thing and then lie straight to our face when we inquire about it.
We also were billed the renovation fees, even though we've only been owners for a couple years, and if what Northwynd says is true about maintenance fees being too low in previous years and now they have to start charging to make up for it, how would that apply to us? Our maintenance fees have always been $850 and higher every year. They'll try and make excuses for charging these renovation fees, and the only ones who benefit from it is them.

 

[Tacoma]

Much as I love Fairmont and the valley as I started to read what was happening I came to 2 conclusions. They're crooks and they are going under and the best we can hope for is that they don't destroy our credit in the process. When I hear of people who know what is going on booking for next year at Lake Okanagan resort and thinking that this group won't pull a similar scam on them I think they're naïve. If I could I would have bailed but did not want to put this nightmare on an unsuspecting person. I'm lucky that I got my unit for free so I don't have a lot invested. Ironically I'm paying more to fight these guys.

 

[fairmontlvr]

Cash grab

When we purchased our timeshare, which was only a couple of years ago, we were told we were purchasing the newest units, which would be Riverview. When we actually went to use it, they put us in Hillside, when I told them that we were supposed to be in Riverview, they said that Hillside was newer and we were getting a nicer unit. At the time, I had no idea, so didn't argue. They tell us one thing and then lie straight to our face when we inquire about it.
We also were billed the renovation fees, even though we've only been owners for a couple years, and if what Northwynd says is true about maintenance fees being too low in previous years and now they have to start charging to make up for it, how would that apply to us? Our maintenance fees have always been $850 and higher every year. They'll try and make excuses for charging these renovation fees, and the only ones who benefit from it is them.

I feel for you and others that happened to buy into the Riverview units. They charged you a premium amount as yes they were the newest and had the granite or marble countertops and newest appliances and you were told that you had exclusive priviledges of buying at Riverview as others at Hillside or Riverside could not stay at Riverview.

They are the newest units, occupancy started in 2005 and I am sure did not have full occupancy for a few years. It defies logic that these newest units would require any form of an upgrade other than what the maintenance fees should be able to cover. At $4000 per unit x 50 weeks this equates to over $200,000 per unit! There is no way these units require this amount of repairs. Yet another reason this is merely a cash grab.

 

[fairmontlvr]

Don Seable

Does anyone have any knowledge of how Don Seable got out of Fairmont Hot Springs Resort Limited? His wife Carol, is a daughter of the Wilder family who originally developed the Fairmont Hot Spring Resort before it was sold out to the Fowler Group a few years ago. Don Seable was the founder of the development of the timeshares at Fairmont and designed the Riverside Golf Course and continued the timeshare and land development around Riverside.

Both Don and his wife Carol's names come up as starting up the timeshares at Mountainside and then later at Riverside. Don is still the president of the Mountainside Villas to which I am also an owner and can attest that there is a night and day difference of how the two are run.

Researching both Don and Carols names, it appears they are quite respected in the Columbia Valley area and are quite involved with the community and with various charitable organizations.

I did find this, http://golfriverside.com/about-us/fairmont-story/

His name is not associated, or at least I did not see it, with Northwynd or later on with FRPL. So does anyone know as to what happened, did he sell out his interest, was he or his wife silent partners?

 

[mmchili]

Darklord, would you please provide the link to Wamkel's 2nd affidavit.

Re Seable; has no connection with Northmont/Riverside and has no ownership interest. Seable is the owner of the managment company that manages Mountainside. I believe Fairmont Hot Springs Resort, Mountainside Villas and Riverside Golf course were sold by the Fowler Family a couple of years ago. NM/NW has no ownership interest in the golf course.

There are details of the renovations with costs per building on the Sunchaser website. Click on Renovation Program/Renovation Documents/Renovation Power Point. NM/NW is using the poly-b issue as their main excuse for renovating because it is "behind the wall" and since the ceilings and walls have to be removed to replace the piping, they want to do a complete renovation and of course they not anly get a renovated resort but collect the 15% management fee of $6 million. My question is, will they siphon some of the monies to renovate Lake Okanagan. The hotel portion needs a major make-over, it is in worse condition than Riverside. This resort is a money pit for NM/NW at the expense of the timeshare owners. I hope the Judge sees thru NM/NW ideas and sets them straight, if that is possible.

 

[fairmontlvr]

Darklord, would you please provide the link to Wamkel's 2nd affidavit.

Re Seable; has no connection with Northmont/Riverside and has no ownership interest. Seable is the owner of the managment company that manages Mountainside. I believe Fairmont Hot Springs Resort, Mountainside Villas and Riverside Golf course were sold by the Fowler Family a couple of years ago. NM/NW has no ownership interest in the golf course.

Don Seable married Carol Wilder and yes I think he and his wife were quite involved with not only the development of the timeshares at Mountainside but also with the golf course at Riverside and the timeshares at Riverside. At some point they either sold his/her interests in Fairmont Resort Properties Ltd or were arms length. He is indeed the president of the company managing the Mountainside timeshares.

I guess my point is that everything seemed to be going well under his and his wife's continued dream of developing the Fairmont area. At some point he no longer was involved with Fairmont Resort Properties Ltd, yet continued on with the Mountainside Villas. This seems to be about the same time that the owners started to get into trouble and here we are today. It should be noted that the Wilder family sold out to the Fowler Group. The Fowlers own the Fairmont Hot Springs Resort( Lodge and pool), the ski hill, the undeveloped land around the Fairmont area, the Mountainside Villas, the three golf courses but Not the timeshares around the Riverside Golf course.

Maybe a solution for us all would be for the Fowler Group to buy out Northwynd and get back on track of developing the potential of the Fairmont area to a point envisioned by the Wilders, by Don Seable. Treating us owners as valued customers instead of money bags and allowing us to enjoy the Fairmont area that drew us there in the first place.

 

[Chilliaces]

I will miss this place

I am right now at Fairmont for the last time. I love it here. It is such a beautiful place but the state of the resort is obvious.
When we checked in a few days ago, the staff at the front desk were "over the top" nice. Much more than usual. I am sure they were coached on their presentation.
The state of the resort is obviously in need of maintenance. There are so many things that need to be repaired and/or replaced it isn't funny.
With the amount of owners paying "extremely high" maintenance fees each year, why was it allowed to get to this state? They have been pocketing a bunch of this money I am sure.

 

[Meow]

Chilliaces:
How well is the WiFi working now?

 

[LookingForAnswers]

Chilliaces: The state of the resort is obviously in need of maintenance. There are so many things that need to be repaired and/or replaced it isn't funny.

Like what? We haven't been there for 2 years... and didn't notice any problem ourselves... other than the tiled counter-tops are a bit dated.

 

[Quadmaniac]

The troubling sign is that Wankel said if Northmount couldn't get assess to this $7M to $8M, the resort will be bankrupt by 2013 Q3 which is a few months from now.

But aren't the $7M to $8M fee collected supposed to be use to renovate the resort instead of paying for ongoing expenses and some debt the resort owes Northwynd?

What makes you think that the resort would be bankrupt by Q3 when they have already collected the 2013 MF ?

 

[Xkon]

Chilliaces:
How well is the WiFi working now?

I was there in March and it was completely unusable. Bring a hotspot with you if you do go!

 

[DarkLord]

What makes you think that the resort would be bankrupt by Q3 when they have already collected the 2013 MF ?

It's from Wankel's 2nd affidavit in which he basically says if the resort cannot use the already renovation and cancellation monies Norton Rose collected in turst so far (which I estimated to be between $7M-$8M), the resort will likely have to declare bankrupcy in Q3 2013.

 

[CleoB]

http://sunchaservillas.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Cleaner-1994-Lease-Redacted.pdf

If you look at our contract, paragraph 8, the only items Northwynd can bill the owners are things like furniture and office equipment. This is a far cry from the fondation repairment or poly B pipes replacement Northwynd is billing us now. And also a far cry from 5 star renovation of the resort Northwyn had in mind on paper.

Unfortunately if you look at 8 (i) it says repairs to the inside and outside of the villas. I hope the judge sees what Northwynd wants to do as a capital project and not a repair.

 

[DarkLord]

I hope the judge sees what Northwynd wants to do as a capital project and not a repair.

That's the gist of it. What Northwynd's trying to do is akin to putting up a new building and asking the TS owners to pay for it so that they can sell and profit from it later.

 

[fairmontlvr]

It's from Wankel's 2nd affidavit in which he basically says if the resort cannot use the already renovation and cancellation monies Norton Rose collected in turst so far (which I estimated to be between $7M-$8M), the resort will likely have to declare bankrupcy in Q3 2013.

Northwynd assumed they would get a favorable ruling from the court and started the renovation project. Now they are threatening if they don't get the favorable ruling it will drive them into bankruptcy? I have no sympathy for Northwynd if the ruling goes against them.

This would be no different then you or I giving the go-ahead to a contractor to renovate our house based on the hope of a bank giving a line of credit. Then crying the blues when the bank turns you down and you have already started the work.

 

[Chilliaces]

Update

For a short time in the 90's, I sold these timeshares. I was taught to tell people that each unit was sold 51 times. 1 week per year was set aside for maintenance that could not be done when people are in the units. I am quite sure these places are used 52 weeks per year. As I sit here and look around my unit, nothing has been changed or upgraded since they were built. Same pictures, same furniture, same crappy hide-a-beds, same crappy bent up shades on all the windows, etc. There is bubbled wallpaper, cracked window sills, poor lighting, old TV's, baseboards that need replacing, etc. Our fridge and freezer don't work very well. We put water in the ice tray the night we got here and the next morning there was a small layer of ice on top but mostly still water.
I do realized they they are well used and livable, but I guarantee you that our maintenance fees have not been used as intended.
They did upgrade the WiFi and it is much better.
I was here the first week of July last year and it is not near as busy this year. Last year you couldn't get a lounger by the pool unless you got there early. Yesterday 3/4 of the chairs were empty at 1:30 in the afternoon.
Most people I have talked to have chosen to buy their way out. There are a lot of bitter people and most who paid thought they had no choice. They didn't know about this site and didn't do any research. Thus Northwynds claim as to how many have paid.
FRP/Northwynd management must have learned their business management skills from the government, collect all the money, and then expect that the people who paid the taxes/fees just trust that the money is used wisely, even though we all know that is not the case.
I have signed up with Docken and have given his name and number to a few people although I dont know if he or any of the other lawyers are still taking clients.