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[2012] Annuity-are they GREAT??

geekette

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I have never invested in annuities for two reasons.

1) I don't like to pay fees that high (there are always better low fee options)

and

2) I could never completely understand them. I have a rule that I don't buy any financial product I can't explain to someone else myself. I could *never* completely get the concept.

Anita

I am much the same as you - be able to invest as inexpensively as possible (avoid / minimize fees) and do not invest in anything I do not understand or trust.

Annuities I somewhat understand, they fail out for me on the trust issue. Waaaaay too many varieties, they all work differently, with different fees and conditions, etc etc.
 

Clemson Fan

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There are many honest hearted financial advisers out there, but most operate under an important conflict of interest: the advice they're giving you makes money for them. If you're using a financial adviser, it's better to use a fee only based one that is CFP certified and doesn't sell you any investment products.

I'm not so sure this is a great idea. While it sounds great some of the best products out there are commissioned based which fee only advisors are forbidden from recommending and many don't bother to even learn about them. If they are salaried fee only advisors by a particular company, guess what, they can only recommend products from that particular company. It would be like going to buy a house, but you were only allowed to look at For Sale By Owner properties.

I think it's better to use an indecent advisor that works both on fees and can also recommend/sell commissioned based products. It really is a minefield out there and you really need to find somebody that's transparent and let's you know exactly how they get paid.

Again, Roccy wrote a book called Bad Advisors which you can download for free at www.roccy.org. I just read it and its a pretty quick read.
 

SmithOp

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I agree with never putting all your eggs in one basket, this sounds way too risky with no way to get 6% right now, too good to be true.

I do have a fixed annuity that was from a cash balance plan when I retired, but I also have SS, pensions, and 401k; that was one reason I selected it rather than convert to IRA.
 
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The single advantage of an Annuity is that is is like a Pension for people that don't have pensions. they provide a lifetime stream of money.

Can you do the same or better with stocks, bonds, CDs....I doubt it.

I have an annuity that I bought back in 1999 which is worth more when I die that what I could cash it out for now because they too can lose money and mine did. Essentially on this one, it will pay out the minimum of what I paid into it . . . or how it's performed over time based on investments.

Bottom line is I invested poorly at the advice of a commission seeking insurance salesman. Shame on me!

I disagree....if you were in the stock market, you would probably have panicked and sold at the bottom.

At least an annuity will provide you with a LIFETIME income stream that you can't outlive.


HI
This money is needed for retirement so it can not be lost. I do have a 403b which is aggressive trying to earn as much as possible while I am not yet retiring.

Anything that is aggressive can be LOST.....be careful as what you are saying and what you want are two different things.
 

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Guess they have loosened the rules, not a good thing! Definitely buyer beware!

I'm a retired CFP who was paid a salary by Charles Schwab and frowned on many tactics I saw commissioned salespeople use. After retirement, I went to a CPA for tax preparation. He saw how much money we had and recommended an annuity. I took the paperwork home to examine it. The Mortality & Expense fee was 1.25%; the expense for underlying mutual funds he suggested was 1.75%; on top of that he charged 1% to guide investment choices. 4% came out of the investment return before I earned anything! I was very irked that a CPA would push a product like this--and told him so. In the not-so-distant past, CPAs were forbidden to earn commissions.
 

DeniseM

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Please note that this question was asked a YEAR AGO, and it was brought out of mothballs with post #20 by someone who is probably a spammer.
 

Clemson Fan

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I'm a retired CFP who was paid a salary by Charles Schwab and frowned on many tactics I saw commissioned salespeople use. After retirement, I went to a CPA for tax preparation. He saw how much money we had and recommended an annuity. I took the paperwork home to examine it. The Mortality & Expense fee was 1.25%; the expense for underlying mutual funds he suggested was 1.75%; on top of that he charged 1% to guide investment choices. 4% came out of the investment return before I earned anything! I was very irked that a CPA would push a product like this--and told him so. In the not-so-distant past, CPAs were forbidden to earn commissions.

How did Charles Schwab afford to pay your salary? My guess is that they were making money off the non-commissioned products you were selling so they could afford to pay you. To me, how the CPA is getting paid in your example is more transparent.

The financial services industry is a minefield for which I don't think there is one best answer.
 

Passepartout

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It is an old- but durable- subject that probably doesn't hurt to revisit occasionally.

I pay my advisor an hourly rate. He advises me on no-load funds, and did put me into an immediate annuity with a top-rated company (the 'Rock') that pays me 6% based on what I bought in with. This is no longer available- no mystery why. Similar products are paying about 4.5% now.

All my eggs are not all in this or any other basket, so I try to keep it diversified. Hopefully it will weather whatever economic storm it should encounter.
 

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Agree that annuity is somewhat guaranteed lifetime stream of income akin to pension, which few of us have these days. That guarantee rests on the fate of the payer, and I have no control over their solvency. Money in my hands today is more valuable to me than a promise to give me money in the future.

~

I could potentially use my div-paying stocks as a stream of income in my old age, which is why I have them. No, not guaranteed, but since I'm mostly holding blue chips, I like my odds. The best part is that it's up to me. This is why I've done what I've done, to have FLEXIBILITY. Don't need the cash? Reinvest the dividends. Run into a cash crunch? Receive divs in cash. No reason to sell the stock unless I want to, it's like just a hunk of principle throwing off interest. bad analogy, hopefully close enough for most...

I don't agree that Von would have sold at the bottom. we don't know. She bought on bad advice, but I have no way of knowing when/why she would sell.

Any investment can be lost. Just because someone invests aggressively does not mean bigger risk of loss, could simply mean a more volatile ride. I invest mostly in stocks, which makes me aggressive, but I don't dabble in Flavor of the Day, as that is far more risky than what I'm doing.

Sure, maybe IBM, ATT, Merck, Caterpillar, etc., will all go out of business before I retire, but I feel reasonably safe in having plenty of my retirement dollars in them vs doing the Facebook, Google, Apple, etc play for a quick buck. I'm also saving boodles in trade fees by, well, not trading much. These positions keep adding to themselves. when the price is high, when the price is low. what's not to love? oh yes, the lack of guarantee, the sheer aggressiveness.

ymmv

at the end of my days, someone will receive a huge pile of stocks and can continue playing the game I set out at exactly the point I stopped playing. The endpoint is when/if a company I own goes bust. If one tanks, it doesn't take the others down.

at the end of a annuitants days, that is usually the end of the money (tho I know some have provisions to pay spouse, etc., but generally there is An End of payments that is defined). If the payer goes insolvent, that's the end.


~~

not bothering me that the thread is old, it's good discussion.

The single advantage of an Annuity is that is is like a Pension for people that don't have pensions. they provide a lifetime stream of money.

Can you do the same or better with stocks, bonds, CDs....I doubt it.



I disagree....if you were in the stock market, you would probably have panicked and sold at the bottom.

At least an annuity will provide you with a LIFETIME income stream that you can't outlive.




Anything that is aggressive can be LOST.....be careful as what you are saying and what you want are two different things.
 
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I am NOT an annuity salesman, but I own a few annuities, but they are only a part of my retirement planning.

I think the confusion occurs when people look at the cash value (the liquidation value) instead of the annualized payout value. Also, some have large fees, but not all. Also the annuity are generally linked to the stock and bond markets, so there will be swings in the cashout value, but not the annuity value if there is a step up of lockin clause.

I can only say that my annuity bought before the 2008 crash had two things happen - because it was tied into the stock market, the cash liquidation value went down hard and is still down after 7 years since I bought it (in other words if I cased out I would lose money). However, the annuity payout value has gone up almost 50% (in other words, when I turn on my income stream, the payout will be based on the higher value).

So, an annuity is good if it is bought and used property and bad if you intend to cashout or look at the liquidation value and if that is your intention, then definately do NOT buy an annuity.

If you want a lifetime income stream so you never go broke, then an annuity is generally the best thing as nothing else can match that.

Finally, some people may either be very smart or very lucky at investing, but over a long time period (20 years) they generally fail to match the S&P 500 rate. Also, do you really want to try to pick stocks when you are in your 70s and have the stress that if you buy wrong or a market crashes, you will lose your only source of income.

Market crashes can and do happen and I guarantee it will happen again. An annuity can provide a cushion and safe port out of that storm.

I am not a government worker with a fat pension, thus, I have to try to create my own and it is very difficult. Anyone with a guaranteed fixed pension plan is very fortunate.

Here are some objective links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annuity_(US_financial_products)

http://www.investopedia.com/university/annuities/default.asp#axzz2Khev7fGT

http://www.sec.gov/answers/annuity.htm

Though annuities started out as fairly simple investing and income vehicles, they've evolved into complex products that can be misunderstood and misused in the financial marketplace. Still, with the right research and due diligence, you can use annuities to give you an income stream that you can count on throughout your retirement. With the shaky state of pensions and Social Security, an annuity might be the perfect retirement income vehicle for you. Before you get involved, however, it's important to consult with a financial specialist to ensure that it's the right choice for you.
 

akp

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typo?

I'm not so sure this is a great idea. While it sounds great some of the best products out there are commissioned based which fee only advisors are forbidden from recommending and many don't bother to even learn about them. If they are salaried fee only advisors by a particular company, guess what, they can only recommend products from that particular company. It would be like going to buy a house, but you were only allowed to look at For Sale By Owner properties.

I think it's better to use an indecent advisor that works both on fees and can also recommend/sell commissioned based products. It really is a minefield out there and you really need to find somebody that's transparent and let's you know exactly how they get paid.

Again, Roccy wrote a book called Bad Advisors which you can download for free at www.roccy.org. I just read it and its a pretty quick read.

An indecent advisor would be a minefield, indeed:)
 
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Have some money invested and the market goes up and down. Before it was in money markets but changed it last year. This money is needed for retirement so it can not be lost. I do have a 403b which is aggressive trying to earn as much as possible while I am not yet retiring.

I just noticed that this was originally posted 1 year ago, so it would be interesting to see the OP chime in and tell us what they did.

To me the KEY issue is that the OP is asking for something that may NOT be possible and that is

"This money is needed for retirement so it can not be lost." AND "I do have a 403b which is aggressive trying to earn as much as possible while I am not yet retiring."

I don't think you can invest to be AGGRESSIVE and CAN NOT BE LOST at the same time.

If you can not afford any loses, then you must be CONSERVATIVE

If you are AGGRESSIVE, then you have to take increased risks and that has a extremely high probability that sometime in the next 5-20 years will suffer a crash or loss.

I wish I could time the market correctly so I can buy low and sell high, but so far nobody has perfected that with 100% accuracy.
 

bogey21

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The plus side of a fixed annuity -- When I retired in 2000 I was one of 13 employees retiring under an Early Retirement Window. The other 12 took lump sum distributions as the discount rate at the time was favorable. Because of a divorce situation I took the fixed annuity with a 50% Survivor annuity and a 3% guaranteed annual inflation adjustment.

Two of the 12 who took the lump sum distributions have done well, one so-so, and the other nine for one reason or another have little or none of their lump sums left. I just keep trucking. The inflation adjustments (one is mandatory and another is voluntrily declared each year by my ex-employer) has now built to where it is about 50% of my annual annuity payment and will continue to grow each year for the rest of my life.

George
 
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zinger1457

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I don't think you can invest to be AGGRESSIVE and CAN NOT BE LOST at the same time.

If you can not afford any loses, then you must be CONSERVATIVE

Not sure what the OP's intent is but some people use the 'bucket approach' to saving and spending down in retirement. As an example one would have a bucket for money that will be needed in the next 5 years and that would be kept in a safe (low return) investment. They then have separate buckets for years 5-10, 10-15, etc.. The investment choices for each bucket are different and become more aggressive as you move to the later year buckets.
 

pkyorkbeach

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Hello

The reason I asked about the Annuity one year ago was because the agent suggested it. My knowledge was limited so I was asking here if anyone knew more then I did. So, I just kept the money where it is....

The agent claimed guaranteed amounts of income with the annuity.


It is hard to decide what to do with retirement money as I do not know much about investing.
 

Tia

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If one takes the time you can learn about investing and that is probably the best. Years ago over 20 maybe 25 I read Money Magazine and read about the Vanguard 500 index fund and invested, later started looking at Forbes Magazine. Takes time but think people need to have a basic knowledge. There are good resources online like the Vanguard website with info. Was in a stock club for a while , but even with software and companies like Enron well.... not so good.
 

artringwald

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It is hard to decide what to do with retirement money as I do not know much about investing.

Technically, people should learn about investing when the begin to make money (i.e. 21 years or) and not when they retire as you lost 30 years of potential gains.

However, if you get a lump sum of money, learning now is better than not at all or handing it over to a stranger.

See below

If one takes the time you can learn about investing and that is probably the best. Years ago over 20 maybe 25 I read Money Magazine and read about the Vanguard 500 index fund and invested, later started looking at Forbes Magazine. Takes time but think people need to have a basic knowledge. There are good resources online like the Vanguard website with info. Was in a stock club for a while , but even with software and companies like Enron well.... not so good.

I like KISS - keep it simple strategy

My best advice....it is hard to go wrong with the following:

50% Vanguard Stock index + 50% Vanguard Bond index

I am assuming you have at least 1 year of cash in the bank.


Two books for a beginner investor that are both entertaining and informative are The Only Investment Guide You'll Ever Need and The Motley Fool Investment Guide. Investment advice can be really boring, so you need a writer with a sense of humor to get people to read the whole book.

Again great advice. Two awesome resources.
 

artringwald

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My best advice....it is hard to go wrong with the following:

50% Vanguard Stock index + 50% Vanguard Bond index

And don't forget to check once/month and rebalance if they're not 50/50 anymore.
 

geekette

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Motley Fool was where I learned a ton "back in the day", also a subscription to Kiplingers (which I like more than the Money publication). I am lucky, I started my fi ed in my 20s after suffering horrendous college debt and digging myself out of it. young and poor wasn't much fun, old and poor would be disastrous. I took it upon myself to figure out how to avoid it.

I would suggest Jane Bryant Quinn's "Making the Most of your Money" for new grads as it was a sensible reference guide whereby one can figure out what they really need, and how to get there, covering oneself through life's changes (ie, do I really need life insurance if I'm single? etc)

Things can be learned, it is never too late to have a money strategy, and it is best that YOU are the master of it. Advisors are great, but don't Just Do What They Say, understand the whys and hows and risks and benefits. They don't have to live with the outcome, you do. Make sure you are comfortable with what you are doing, don't just follow orders.

I'm not a fan of constant rebalancing, however, especially if there will be costs associated with the sells and buys. But, if it makes sense to do so in one's strategic plan, then do so.

I would also add Investopedia.com to the mix. And for those so-inclined, dripinvesting.org (crappy site, really, but good resource if you are A Dripper, which I am, and the discussion board, tho arcane, is more active than the div board on Fool.com).

SeekingAlpha.com is another site I'd recommend, but may not be for everyone. Either you share their mindset, or you don't, but the articles are by and large very well done.

I wanted to start an investing club long before the old ladies from Bakersfield got famous. Just never found enough others to Actually Do It.

Also, if you go with mutual funds, be sure you know what the expenses are. I hold stocks vs mutual funds because I control the fees.
 

artringwald

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I'm not a fan of constant rebalancing, however, especially if there will be costs associated with the sells and buys. But, if it makes sense to do so in one's strategic plan, then do so.

One nice thing about Vanguard funds is that there is no cost to exchange funds (sell one fund to buy another). You can specify the dollars so you don't have to calculate the number of shares. However, if you exchange funds in a taxable account, you have to be aware of the taxes you may owe on the capital gains.
 
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