[2011] Westgate Tower of Terror Las Vegas No More! [merged]

[billinlv]

I still have my long standing insiders at Wastegate and attend every annual meeting. Taking your "facts" from front desk or sales personnel is hardly the way to get reliable information.

John, since you obviously didn't email Michael Anderson I'll do that for you to report to him the c..p you are spreading around. A representative of TUG. Where is Brian Rogers?

I'll report back with Michael's reply.

 

[swditz]

"I, too, am tired of hearing John give out wrong information and badmouth Westgate every chance he gets. He loves to make owners who bought at Westgate/Planet Hollywood/Elara feel bad about their purchase. I've been reading his posts since I bought my property since 2007. I think we can all agree that David Seigel from Westgate is not the most upstanding man, and apparently, John has had some issues with Westgate, but it's really time to give it a rest as far as the negative comments go. It's unprofessional as a moderator, and this forum should not be used as a platform for his hatred of Westgate. I would love to know where John gets his "facts" from, as he is not a Westgate/Elara owner. Do you have some inside connection to someone who is telling you this stuff, and if so, who is it? I'd really like to know."

thank you
is it any wonder that people who bought from Westgate and are happy with their purchase wont ask questions or for advise here? if I want to hear a long diatribe I can look no further than years of past posts. beneficial answers are in short supply. like it or not there are a lot of Westgate owners here. I am new to tug, but don't imagine I will stay around long.

 

[jmzf1958]

I rented my unit out for $850 a night, split week. The rack rate is much higher than this for a four bedroom. I don't appreciate being accused of lying. There are some really mean-spirited people on this board when it comes to Westgate.

I prefer to take the facts Hilton Grand Vacation Club management tells me than from anyone else.

 

[billinlv]

I wrote Brian Rogers to complain about John Chase. Notice their motto is "Truth about Timeshares" but their moderators can give out untruths. See reply below.

Our moderators are not paid staff, but instead just volunteer owners like yourself. Sadly if we told them they would be unable to post their own opinions and participate on the forums, we would quickly have no moderators left.

I spend many thousands of dollars a year in legal fees to keep the TUGBBS and the content placed on it protected from those who would see negative comments censored. I don’t feel that minor sarcastic remarks about timeshare entities to be crossing the line in terms of general discussion…lord knows many entities in this industry have earned far worse.

I am sorry you feel offended by certain things posted, but I hope that the freedom of speech wont be a reason you discontinue visiting TUG.

Timeshare Users Group
The first and largest Timeshare community site dedicated to timeshare owners providing the Truth about Timeshares for over 19 years!

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I wrote Brian Rogers to complain about John Chase. Notice their motto is "Truth about Timeshares" but their moderators can give out untruths. See reply below.

Our moderators are not paid staff, but instead just volunteer owners like yourself. Sadly if we told them they would be unable to post their own opinions and participate on the forums, we would quickly have no moderators left.

I spend many thousands of dollars a year in legal fees to keep the TUGBBS and the content placed on it protected from those who would see negative comments censored. I don’t feel that minor sarcastic remarks about timeshare entities to be crossing the line in terms of general discussion…lord knows many entities in this industry have earned far worse.

I am sorry you feel offended by certain things posted, but I hope that the freedom of speech wont be a reason you discontinue visiting TUG.

Timeshare Users Group
The first and largest Timeshare community site dedicated to timeshare owners providing the Truth about Timeshares for over 19 years!

Bill's policy is exactly as it should be.

Let me be blunt. What you are asking is that information be removed because you think the information is false and misleading and dangerous. That, by it's very nature, is censorship. That is always the rationale used by every censorship organization to suppress "undesirable" information.

The better way is to just let people post. If someone repeatedly posts inaccurate information it is their credibility that is damaged. They way to counter inaccurate information is to post better information.

***

re moderators - they have every bit as much right to post their own opinions as you do. Or are you advocating that moderators should have less rights to post than are granted to you?


***

I realize this is not the type of response you are hoping for and it will come across as unfriendly, unwelcoming, hostile response. I regret that, but as the same time what you seem to be expecting isn't the way this board is run, nor is it the way that any other open forum board that I am aware of operates. The only boards that operate the way that you seem to be expecting are boards that do routinely censor postings.

If you want a free and open forum, then you have to accept that there are going to be disagreements among participants about what is or is not true.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Were Their Lips Moving When They Told You ?

I prefer to take the facts Hilton Grand Vacation Club management tells me than from anyone else.

Really ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[AwayWeGo]

Booting Out The Company-Controlled Captive HOA-BOD.

You are under the false impression that Hilton controls the old Wastegate units. They do not. There is a separate HOA for them that hired Hilton to manage them - but they answer to the thumb & control of the King.

Can't the owners of the WestGate units get a majority vote to throw out the company-captive HOA & install an owner-controlled independent HOA ?

If so, maybe the independent HOA could negotiate better terms with HGVC.

The key, though, is replacing the company-controlled HOA with an independent, owner-controlled HOA interested only in delivering value for money to the regular walking-around timeshare owners & not interested 1 bit in the timeshare company's profit-loss statement.

Until that happens, the deck is stacked against the regular walking-around timeshare owners -- bigtime.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[billinlv]

Can't the owners of the WestGate units get a majority vote to throw out the company-captive HOA & install an owner-controlled independent HOA ?

On November 21, 2011 LV Tower 52, LLC, an affiliate of Resort Finance America, LLC ("RFA") acquired Planet Hollywood Towers by Westgate. On this date LV Tower 52 Management Company, LLC, an affiliate of RFA, took over management responsibilities for the Resort and Association.

RFA subsequently hired Hilton to manage the property.

There is one timeshare association for Elara and it doesn't matter how each unit was purchased.

 

[timeos2]

There has been no change to this announced anywhere.

July 16, 2012, 10:44 PM #2 yumdrey


TUG Member

BBS Reg. Date: Jun 30, 08
Location: Maryland, U.S.A.
Posts: 3,017


Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeP
This is just a FYI: i bought a unit off ebay and yesterday i received my welcome packet from Westgate, cOmplete with a westgate member card. Not one mention of HGVC anywhere. I have also been receiving phone calls from westgate asking me to fill out an IRS form. I wonder how, when, or if hgvc is going to be involved.....

I have talk to an HGVC/Elara rep a few days ago regarding my newly purchased Elara week (got it from an individual owner and used First American title co.).
She said even if the resort ownership/management transferred to HGVC, it (weeks sold through westgate) has nothing to do with HGVC at all. New owners who bought the weeks from westgate owners are belong to westgate which is part of the contract between westgate and Hilton.
So if you purchased a traditional deeded planet hollywood (elara) week, you can use it as a westgate week and you can do internal exchange to other westgate resorts, space bank your week, etc...
It does not get HGVC membership automatically.
I already own three HGVC weeks and this Elara week doesn't show up on my online account.
HGVC rep said they (westgate elara weeks) don't have online account and cannot be visible on my existing HGVC accounts.
I have to call to make a reservation or to space bank the reservation.
You can use Interval International as an exchange company, as a traditional week system which has nothing to do with HGVC.

 

[billinlv]

There has been no change to this announced anywhere.

John, GeorgeP's post that you quoted is pretty much correct. My problem with you is that you are saying that the Westgate and Hilton units are separate. That is not true. There is one owner of the building, they control the association and how all rooms are upgraded. At the meeting I attended the head person at RFA jokingly indicated how HGVC is constantly coming to him to authorize more upgrade money.

Here is something we got from HGVC last Sept. 2012 on how we now need to handle exchanges with II or internal Westgate exchanges.

Dear Owner,

In continuing our commitment to ensure you are aware of the latest news and updates regarding Elara, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club, we would like to share some helpful details for your travel planning reference.

As an Owner at the resort, you may have several options available for utilizing your week(s).
Below is a list of options, including the most current procedures for exchanges and deposits:
• For exchange with Interval International (II): You must confirm a 2012 reservation at Elara prior to contacting II to deposit your week. The week you confirm will be given to II for your future exchange. If you do not have a week to deposit, you will be unable to benefit from the II exchange program. (Please note: only 7-night stays are accepted for II exchange)
• For exchange within Westgate's Internal Exchange system: You must confirm a 2012 reservation at Elara by September 30, 2012 prior to contacting Westgate to deposit your week.
• To deposit your 2012 week for use in 2013: You must confirm a 2012 reservation at Elara by September 30, 2012 in order to deposit your week for use in 2013.

 

[dougp26364]

John, GeorgeP's post that you quoted is pretty much correct. My problem with you is that you are saying that the Westgate and Hilton units are separate. That is not true. There is one owner of the building, they control the association and how all rooms are upgraded. At the meeting I attended the head person at RFA jokingly indicated how HGVC is constantly coming to him to authorize more upgrade money.

Here is something we got from HGVC last Sept. 2012 on how we now need to handle exchanges with II or internal Westgate exchanges.

Dear Owner,

In continuing our commitment to ensure you are aware of the latest news and updates regarding Elara, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club, we would like to share some helpful details for your travel planning reference.

As an Owner at the resort, you may have several options available for utilizing your week(s).
Below is a list of options, including the most current procedures for exchanges and deposits:
• For exchange with Interval International (II): You must confirm a 2012 reservation at Elara prior to contacting II to deposit your week. The week you confirm will be given to II for your future exchange. If you do not have a week to deposit, you will be unable to benefit from the II exchange program. (Please note: only 7-night stays are accepted for II exchange)
• For exchange within Westgate's Internal Exchange system: You must confirm a 2012 reservation at Elara by September 30, 2012 prior to contacting Westgate to deposit your week.
• To deposit your 2012 week for use in 2013: You must confirm a 2012 reservation at Elara by September 30, 2012 in order to deposit your week for use in 2013.

In reading this there is one major item missing. That would be how Westgate owners can exchange through RCI. HGVC does not trade through I.I. and the Westgate units at Elera appear, at least from this letter, to honor the Westgate commitment to I.I.

Also note the HGVC members/owners do not reserve a week and then deposit that week. HGVC members reserve exchanges through RCI using their HGVC points. HGVC members also reserve accomadations at HGVC member resorts using points instead of deeded floating weeks.

I question either your source or your understanding of what the source is telling you. From what you've posted it is painfully obvious to me that there is a seperation of Westgate and HGVC inventory at Elera.

This is not the first instance of a management change at a resort and it certainly won't be the first timeshare resort that is managed by one company but units are controlled by more than one company. Gatlinburg Town Square in Gatlinburg, TN has units controlled by Summer Bay and units controlled by DRI. Stormy Point Village in Branson, MO is managed by Summer Winds but has units controlled by Festiva.

The Elera as a whole may be managed by HGVC and have HGVC's sign on the building instead of Westgate but, the Westgate units are not under the HGVC membership and HGVC units are not under Westgate membership. The two are still seperate in many ways. The only thing that may be the same is HGVC manages the property and controls the unsold inventory, which will be sold under the HGVC membership. HGVC also likely now has the right to develope the remainder of the property and brand it under the HGVC flag.

If you bought under Westgate you are a Westgate owner at a property managed by HGVC. Tricky to understand maybe but, Westgate owners are not HGVC members and, the way it's looking now, never will be.

IOW, John may be blunt but John is correct.

Here's a thought, why not call HGVC and tell them that you're worried that with HGVC managing the resort and HGVC members being able to use their points to reserve units at Elera, you might not have the opportunity to reserve your deeded week.

Also ask how a Westgate Elera owner can book stays at other HGVC member resorts.

Here's what you're going to be told. Westgate inventory is kept seperate for reservations purposes so that Westgate owners will always have their promised access.

Westgate owners are not HGVC owners and do not have the ability to book HGVC member resorts. Since HGVC exchanges through RCI and Westgate exchanges through I.I., Westgate owners at Elera won't even be able to exchange into HGVC resorts using their exchange company.

I can pretty much guarentee those will be the answers and the reality of your situation.

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Are Correct, Sir.

This is not the first instance of a management change at a resort and it certainly won't be the first timeshare resort that is managed by one company but units are controlled by more than one company. Gatlinburg Town Square in Gatlinburg, TN has units controlled by Summer Bay and units controlled by DRI. Stormy Point Village in Branson, MO is managed by Summer Winds but has units controlled by Festiva.

Those aren't the only ones.

Blue Tree Resort in Orlando FL is partly WestGate & partly non-WestGate, with separate HOA's & separate check-in buildings & everything.

Who'd a-thunk ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia.​

 

[PigsDad]

In reading this there is one major item missing. That would be how Westgate owners can exchange through RCI. HGVC does not trade through I.I. and the Westgate units at Elera appear, at least from this letter, to honor the Westgate commitment to I.I.

Also note the HGVC members/owners do not reserve a week and then deposit that week. HGVC members reserve exchanges through RCI using their HGVC points. HGVC members also reserve accomadations at HGVC member resorts using points instead of deeded floating weeks.

I question either your source or your understanding of what the source is telling you. From what you've posted it is painfully obvious to me that there is a seperation of Westgate and HGVC inventory at Elera.

This is not the first instance of a management change at a resort and it certainly won't be the first timeshare resort that is managed by one company but units are controlled by more than one company. Gatlinburg Town Square in Gatlinburg, TN has units controlled by Summer Bay and units controlled by DRI. Stormy Point Village in Branson, MO is managed by Summer Winds but has units controlled by Festiva.

The Elera as a whole may be managed by HGVC and have HGVC's sign on the building instead of Westgate but, the Westgate units are not under the HGVC membership and HGVC units are not under Westgate membership. The two are still seperate in many ways. The only thing that may be the same is HGVC manages the property and controls the unsold inventory, which will be sold under the HGVC membership. HGVC also likely now has the right to develope the remainder of the property and brand it under the HGVC flag.

If you bought under Westgate you are a Westgate owner at a property managed by HGVC. Tricky to understand maybe but, Westgate owners are not HGVC members and, the way it's looking now, never will be.

IOW, John may be blunt but John is correct.

Here's a thought, why not call HGVC and tell them that you're worried that with HGVC managing the resort and HGVC members being able to use their points to reserve units at Elera, you might not have the opportunity to reserve your deeded week.

Also ask how a Westgate Elera owner can book stays at other HGVC member resorts.

Here's what you're going to be told. Westgate inventory is kept seperate for reservations purposes so that Westgate owners will always have their promised access.

Westgate owners are not HGVC owners and do not have the ability to book HGVC member resorts. Since HGVC exchanges through RCI and Westgate exchanges through I.I., Westgate owners at Elera won't even be able to exchange into HGVC resorts using their exchange company.

I can pretty much guarentee those will be the answers and the reality of your situation.

Doug,

Just because the inventory is kept separate, that does not mean that the units have to be kept separate. The inventory just needs to be properly accounted for -- what physical unit a person stays in can be managed at check-in time. As long as the inventory is properly managed, "weeks" can still be traded in II through Westgate -- that can coexist with the HGVC point system.

No one is claiming Westgate owners can reserve other HGVC properties, or that Westgate owners at Elara are somehow HGVC members. I'm not sure where that one came from.

John Chase's premise is that Westgate owners will only stay in "Westgate" units, which he claims will always be inferior physical units verses the HGVC units. Billinjax has relayed information directly from Elara / HGVC management that all of the units will be the same, and that Westgate owners will not be relegated to a sub-set of physical units when they stay there.

Billinjax's information comes from Elara / HGVC management, and he has named specific names.

John claims his information comes from "insiders", and hasn't offered up any specific names.

People can make up their own minds, but I would give more credibility to Billinjax's sources.

Kurt

BTW, it is Elara, not Elera.

 

[billinlv]

I heard back from Michael D. Anderson the General Manager Resort Operations / Las Vegas Area Resorts. See his reply below. I'll also post what the COO reports to me later.

Michael Anderson <MAnderson@hgvc.com>
11:51 AM (2 hours ago)

Thanks Bill -- i am forwarding your email to Kim Kreiger our COO, he was also at the annual meeting. You are right these statements lead only to confusion. Watch for a response ASAP.
I really appreciate the heads up.

Michael Anderson
Work: micanderson@hgvc.com
Sent from my iPad

 

[Rent_Share]

Corporate doublespeak

 

[billinlv]

Corporate doublespeak

Run up those post numbers.

 

[timeos2]

Corporate doublespeak

And note the way the "truth" from Hilton has been reported since that meaningless gobbledegook statement.

Silence. They can't "correct" what was already stated correctly. Hilton only operate the old Tower of Terror units for Wastegate - the owners are still under Wastegate rule and while Hilton as manager can ask Wastegate to fund repairs, improvements, etc it remains for the Wastegate weasels to actually approve it and pay the bill from their owners pockets. Since they hardly maintain or improve the resorts they actually manage & still sell it seems unlikely they will be willing to take the management advice to improve their now orphaned units across the country. Owning Wastegate has always been, and will always be, a total nightmare that helps give timeshare a bad name.

 

[billinlv]

Silence.

Mr Wastegate I wish you would comment on something you have an interest in or at least know something about. You're a big contributor to this group and I'm sure you mostly know what you are talking about but in this case you are wrong. I wish there was a way to have the system ignore all of your posts.

As far as getting 'silence' it took me time and a few emails to different HGVC execs to get some answers.

I was able to talk to Neil Hutchinson who is Vice President Association Management Services for Hilton Grand Vacations headquartered in Orlando, FL.

1. Neil said Westgate could foreclose any of the units they were financing if delinquent but didn't know if they still had the FROF for resales. He said Hilton would not have that for Westgate sold units.

2. There is one timeshare association with one president and board and Hilton collects dues and taxes for both clubs, HGVC and Westgate.

3. All timeshare units are being upgraded equally, paid for by the building owner RFA (Resort Finance of America). Neil thought they are working from the top down.

4. Although one association HGVC and Westgate owners have some different rules. The management agreement between RFA and Hilton requires Westgate owners, when booking a weekly stay, to book a Fri to Fri stay and to pay the next years estimated fees if the new booking goes into the next year.

5. Westgate uses an 11 month booking window for home resorts and HGVC has 12 months for Elara home resort bookings. They are looking into making it equal for both.

6. They are considering allowing Westgate owners to go to a 7 day check in on any day if booked 9 months out.

 

[Rent_Share]

I wish there was a way to have the system ignore all of your posts.

There is, and I just added you to my ignore list