2009 Maintenance Fees

[JimC]

We just got our Shadow Ridge statement

Operating $760.72
Reserve $146.68

 

[dougp26364]

Looks like my Ocean Pointe 3 bedroom Silver season unit will be around $1,405 this year. The final budget hasn't been approved so it's not set in stone yet. I believe the reserve's were going up from $220 to $240.

 

[jercal10]

are these for 1 week??

 

[AMJ]

Harbour Point 2009 MF

Replacement Reserve 214.09
Property Tax Fee 54.58
Refurb Loan Pymt 115.00
Operating Fee 605.15

Total: $988.82

 

[aka Julie]

What about maintenance fees on MVCI-owned weeks?

I was just wondering, does MVCI pay the 2009 maintenance fees on any units they bought back through ROFR and have not sold by year end? If so, that may be one more reason they are passing on so many units right now.

Also, do they pay MF on developer units that have not yet been sold? I'm thinking not.

With the economy the way it is, I'm sure there will be a higher % of defaults on MF payments for 2009.

 

[Dave M]

I was just wondering, does MVCI pay the 2009 maintenance fees on any units they bought back through ROFR and have not sold by year end?

Yes, once Marriott sells a week, the owner of that week has an obligation to pay the MFs. If Marriott repurchases that week, the obligation passes to Marriott.

Also, do they pay MF on developer units that have not yet been sold?

No. However, Marriott provides a lump sum subsidy to the HOA to balance the budget until enough weeks have been sold at the resort that the resort becomes self-sustaining. Among operating resorts in 2008, Marriott provided such subsidies for Frenchman's Reef, St. Kitts and Village d’Ile-de-France.

 

[JimC]

...With the economy the way it is, I'm sure there will be a higher % of defaults on MF payments for 2009.

Yes, that is likely with bad debt expense much higher (as I noticed in our SR budget). I suspect the HOA would need to consider the cash flow implications of unpaid fees which could result in reduced services, delayed or scaled back projects, borrowing to cover the shortfall or special assessments. We have that issue in our planned community where we live in Florida.

 

[dioxide45]

No. However, Marriott provides a lump sum subsidy to the HOA to balance the budget until enough weeks have been sold at the resort that the resort becomes self-sustaining. Among operating resorts in 2008, Marriott provided such subsidies for Frenchman's Reef, St. Kitts and Village d’Ile-de-France.

I beleive the subsidy that they pay only covers operating costs and not reserves. I beleive developers have the choice not to fun the reserves for unsold units during buildout as long as they offer a guaranty. If there are referbishment cost above what the reserve fund will cover, the developer covers the amount above what is covered.

 

[Dave M]

That's not true, at least for Marriott. If you look at any Marriott budget where there is currently a subsidy, you'll see that the subsidy has the effect of balancing the budget so that all operating expenses and reserve fees are covered by the combination of MFs and the subsidy.

If you log into your MVCI account, you can see the 2008 budget in the owners' section for each resort.

It might appear that Marriott is not covering any of the reserve additions, because the line item for the subsidy is typically included with the operating expenses section of the budget. However, the net is divided among outstanding weeks to determine the actual MF for the year. If Marriott didn't cover part of the reserve addition, that would have the effect of artificially increasing the preconstruction and early construction fees far above what they would otherwise be and scaring off potential purchasers.

 

[dougp26364]

are these for 1 week??

Yes, these are for 1 week.

 

[potchak]

MMC/MSE
Fiscal Year Description Due Date Amount Due
2009 Property Tax Fee 2009-01-16 61.83
2009 Reserve Fee 2009-01-16 160.50
2009 Operating Fee 2009-01-16 667.67
Total Charges $890.00

 

[Wahorn]

Here is the latest historical trend data for Manor Club MMC/MSE:

I'd be curious to know what trends have been at other Marriott properties. Can anyone do a similar analysis for their property?

 

[lovearuba]

great idea

We could do this for the ocean club and maybe marriott will see why we are so upset

 

[JimC]

I'd be curious to know what trends have been at other Marriott properties. Can anyone do a similar analysis for their property?

Dave M has this in the FAQ section at the top of the page for all resorts.

 

[lovearuba]

great idea

cant wait to see the updated ocean club one, I usually get my bill in December

 

[Dave M]

Wahorn -

As Jim accurately states, the information you seek is readily available in the FAQs for this forum and in the TUG Advice section - the historical database of Marriott maintenance fees.

For those 21 Marriott resorts for which we have MF data back to 2001, the average annual increase in fees has been 5.2%, from $701 in 2001 to $1,002 in 2008. The median increase was at an annual rate of 5.0%. I exclude special assessments, which are temporary and would otherwise distort the increase data.

Here is what I posted earlier this year related to the fee increases from 2007 to 2008:

I have updated the historical database of Marriott maintenance fees to include 2008 fees. Click on this link. Alternatively, you can find the chart anytime from the FAQs for this forum or in the Marriott section of TUG Advice (link at the top of any BBS page).

Some data: The median increase in fees from last year (after adjusting to eliminate special assessments) is 6.5%. The range includes two decreases (Timber Lodge and Heritage Club) and seven double-digit increases, led by Manor Club at 19%. Four resorts had special assessments in 2008 compared to three in 2007.

The median fee (again adjusted to exclude special assessments) for a high season (e.g., Platinum) week is now $935 and could exceed $1,000 by next year. The high is the Maui Lahaina 3BR at $2,059, followed by the other Hawaii resorts and the weak-dollar Euro-based resorts in France and Spain, most of which are over $1,300. The lowest fees are at Horizons Branson ($694) and Timber Lodge ($699). With back to back double-digit increases, formerly low-cost Manor's fee, at $845, is approaching the middle of the pack.

If you find any changes that should be made to the database, please send me a Private Message and I'll update the database or make the change in the next version, depending on the nature of the change. Please don't suggest changes in the format, because I'm not prepared to start over on this huge project!

I do a similar analysis each year when we have accumulated all of the increase data (usually in January or February) and after I have updated the database.

 

[Lawlar]

Good Job

Wahorn - Nice charts.

 

[ecm500]

Hi - been following along and reading lots of great advice on these boards - so first I want to say Thanks! Second, offer the fee info I just received on our 3BR Frenchman's Cove gold season:

2009 Operating Fee: $1,622.06
2009 Replacement Reserve: 169.65
(Less '09 Developer subsidy): (496.14)

Total '09 3BR Gold: $1,295.57

From what I can tell the total cost, net of subsidy, increased exactly 15.0% from 2008 MF's. We purchased in '08 but first use year is '09 so I'm relying on the comparative statement included with this bill.

 

[thinze3]

Waiohai

Waiohai 2BR platinum:

$ 130.54 reserve fee
$ 146.14 property tax
$1,204.02 operating fee

$1,480.70 total

 

[AMJ]

Barony Beach Club (Platinum)
Property Tax Fee $95.00
Reserve Fee $150.00
Operating Fee $665.00
Total Charges $910.00

Cypress Harbour (Sport)
Property Tax Fee $94.04
Reserve Fee $230.00
Operating Fee $557.60
Total Charges $881.64

Ocean Watch (Platinum)
Property Tax Fee $60.25
Reserve Fee $144.00
Operating Fee $689.75
Total Charges $894.00

 

[aka Julie]

Barony Beach Club (Platinum)
Property Tax Fee $95.00
Reserve Fee $150.00
Operating Fee $665.00
Total Charges $910.00

I own 2 silver weeks at Barony. I'm very pleased that our fees only went up a net of $15!

 

[MOXJO7282]

Maui Ocean Club - old section is up 5.6% to $1623.
Myrtle Beach Oceanwatch also up 5.6% to $894

Not bad compared to previous years.

Regards.
Joe

 

[LAX Mom]

Summit Watch
Property tax 78.78
Reserve fee 224.75
Operating fee 743.37

Total = $ 1,046.90

 

[rsnash]

2 BR Gold

Fairway Villas at Seaview

Interval Description Due Date Amount Due

FW*1019*47 2009 Property Tax Fee 2009-01-23 $65.49
FW*1019*47 2009 Reserve Fee 2009-01-23 $186.00
FW*1019*47 2009 Operating Fee 2009-01-23 $649.20

Total amount $900.69

 

[andypoole]

We own EOY at Waiohai and it looks like they're taking MF's every year. That can't be right surely?