[2009] Hyatt Highlands Inn Point Allocation Change! Increase for All Units

[heathpack]

I completely agree that this is a bad precedent set by HVC, but what can you do?

You can try to make it clear to Hyatt that you do not think this is ok and that maybe they should think twice about similar changes in the future.

You seem to think that any one who has a problem with this change is desperate to stay at Highlands Inn every year. You also seem to think that everyone within the HVC system should want to stay for a full week in the same resort year after year.

For us, a big part of the appeal of the HVC system is the ability to book 3 or 4 night stays and in order for this to be practical in regards to travel time, we'd need to have good access to nearby resorts (which for us is Sedona, Tahoe and Carmel). We have no interest in returning to the same resort every year.

More power to you if you bought exactly what will suit you ad infinitum. You may be totally pleased even if the HVC points system someday becomes a joke. However if you decide to sell your weeks down the road, you may find that without a great HVC points system your weeks are not worth nearly as much.

H

 

[ral]

...The buyer should have bought Highlands Inn in the first place if he wishes to count on using it year after year.



The playing field needs to be leveled for the cheaper resorts vs. the more expensive ones, and the ways to do it are to add in more premium seasons or to add in more unit classifications, and HVC is fully within its right to do the above as long as it has maintained the points required for owners for their deeded week at their home resorts.

I, for one, do not wish to use Highlands Inn year after year. I have not yet stayed there and don't have any immediate plans to stay there. If I did want to stay there annually, I would have purchased at Highlands Inn.

What is most important is the major change in Hyatt Vacation Club philosophy. While this change is of immediate advantage to Highlands Inn owners, it may open the door to a series of changes to the detriment of all Hyatt Vacation Club members.

The original philosophy behind the Hyatt Vacation Club was to have a program that allowed an owner six months to choose whether he wishes to stay in his purchased unit. If he chooses not to stay in his deeded unit, he can then trade into another Vacation Club unit using comparable points. The main idea was to have the same number of points for the same bedroom size unit, with differences in seasons. Point value for a two bedroom is the same for all two bedrooms in the same season in the Vacation Club. The Highlands Inn restructure is definitely a change in the philosophy of the Hyatt Vacation Club. I can recall during the developer presentation how strongly the sales staff emphasized how well this program functioned.

I still don't understand why this change in points is needed. If a Highlands Inn owner chooses to stay in his deeded week, that week is not available to the Vacation Club. If the Highlands Inn owner wishes to give up his week, he still has the number of points necessary to book at whichever Hyatt Vacation Club unit he wishes. The unit given up then becomes available to others in the Vacation Club at no loss to the original owner.

I do understand the new classifications of two bedroom premier and two bedroom deluxe at the Hyatt Siesta Key because they are actually three bedroom and four bedroom units with additional baths (the third and fourth rooms are without windows, so they are not allowed to be called “bedrooms.”)

Does anyone know how this change in point value was initiated?

 

[optimist]

The original philosophy behind the Hyatt Vacation Club was to have a program that allowed an owner six months to choose whether he wishes to stay in his purchased unit. If he chooses not to stay in his deeded unit, he can then trade into another Vacation Club unit using comparable points. The main idea was to have the same number of points for the same bedroom size unit, with differences in seasons. Point value for a two bedroom is the same for all two bedrooms in the same season in the Vacation Club. The Highlands Inn restructure is definitely a change in the philosophy of the Hyatt Vacation Club. I can recall during the developer presentation how strongly the sales staff emphasized how well this program functioned.


Does anyone know how this change in point value was initiated?

The problem with this system, of allocating the same number of points to every unit in the system, is that it results in people buying where maintenance is lowest. Those resorts where maintenance fees run higher (as in Carmel) end up having sluggish sales. Few want to buy them, many want to trade into them.

I am also not thrilled with this change but I don't see that Hyatt had much choice if their intent was to level the playing field.

If you read the Starwood boards, you will see how angry people are with their increase in maintenance fees. Now if Starwood had done what Hyatt has, which is increase the number of star options or points or whatever they are called, in the resorts with the highest fees, (allowing people to get more vacation days out of the same maintenance fees) I think they would not have such a marketing disaster on their hands, where their resorts are trading for a dollar on ebay.

The only strategies that work well in life are where everyone benefits. It has to be win win for both sides.

 

[ral]

The problem with this system, of allocating the same number of points to every unit in the system, is that it results in people buying where maintenance is lowest. Those resorts where maintenance fees run higher (as in Carmel) end up having sluggish sales. Few want to buy them, many want to trade into them.

I am also not thrilled with this change but I don't see that Hyatt had much choice if their intent was to level the playing field.

If you read the Starwood boards, you will see how angry people are with their increase in maintenance fees. Now if Starwood had done what Hyatt has, which is increase the number of star options or points or whatever they are called, in the resorts with the highest fees, (allowing people to get more vacation days out of the same maintenance fees) I think they would not have such a marketing disaster on their hands, where their resorts are trading for a dollar on ebay.

The only strategies that work well in life are where everyone benefits. It has to be win win for both sides.

If leveling the playing field is what Hyatt had in mind, and again, this is a major change from the original Hyatt Vacation Club philosophy, then we have huge problems forthcoming. We are probably looking forward to a change in the point value of the four ski resorts in Colorado, along with any other Hyatt Vacation Club Resort whose HOA feels that its owners deserve better point value than what was originally contracted.

I don't have any documentation for the following statement, but I do think that the majority of Hyatt owners purchased the location they most wanted, rather than purchasing the location with the lowest maintenance fees. Otherwise why would the Colorado ski resorts and Key West beach resorts be very strong sellers?

In any Vacation Club, there are always going to be more popular locations. That's why people purchase in those locations. But if the owners of those locations should choose not to use their purchased unit, they have an alternative, using the allocated points with internal trading or Interval International. Should Highlands Inn owners be restricted from trading into Four Seasons Aviara Resort because Four Seasons Aviara has the dubious distinction of having one of the highest maintenance fees in the timeshare industry? ($2311.18 per week including taxes for highest season two bedroom)

I would prefer not to be a pessimist, but I think this change will initiate chaos within the Hyatt Vacation Club point system.

Also, I am still wondering how this change was initiated.

 

[jkc22]

"Fixed" Point Values

I do appreciate the arguments that point values should be "fixed," and to a certain extent, I wish ALL point values are to stay constant for the life of HVC ownership for an owner. However, unless specifically stated at purchase that such point values are guaranteed to remain constant, there's not much owners can do.

I do have yet another question, mainly to those who bought directly from HVC and/or authorized resellers that allow transfer of HVC points to Hyatt Hotels Gold Passport points. What were you told about the equivalence of exchange? Were you sold that "for a given week of HVC points, you are able to stay in the Park Hyatt Tokyo for 5, 7, or 10 nights....?" If so, I would think you should have more issues with HVC (earlier) than the Highlands Inn increase.

I am a 10+ year Hyatt Diamond member, and have accumulated over 1M Gold Passport points over the past 15+ years. I've seen the point value requirement for Park Hyatt Tokyo increase from around 10K points/night to 15K points/night, to 18K points/night now. This means for whatever your 75K points you get for exchanging into Gold Passport, you were able to stay at the Park Hyatt Tokyo for 7 nights 15 years ago, 5 nights about 5 years ago, and only 4 nights now. I am surprised that no HVC members have complained about this “change” that was supposed to stay “fixed”? Wouldn’t you argue that’s you were sold 7 nights of Park Hyatt Tokyo for your week, and now you only get 4?

The Hyatt Gold Passport hotel categories change every year, and as such, HVC points will get varying number of nights depending on the category changes year after year. While I do not see HVC categories or seasons change every year, HVC has reserved all rights to do so. After all, it OWNS and OPERATES the HVC program, while the HVC owners only own the deeded weeks at their home resorts, and as members, they have exchange privileges within the HVC program.

I had been upset my Gold Passport points won’t get me as many nights at the Park Hyatt Tokyo now, but I am still an active member. I still get many free nights out of the program, and I could certainly vote with my feet as I stay over 75+ nights with Hyatt every year. All other hotel/airline/timeshare programs are changing point requirements anywhere you look. I think the important fact is to realize that the operators OWN the point programs, and if you can get over that fact (as an owner’s ownership in a timeshare has absolutely no rights over the operations of the program, but only privileges to participate and use the program), you will be less upset.

 

[heathpack]

All other hotel/airline/timeshare programs are changing point requirements anywhere you look. I think the important fact is to realize that the operators OWN the point programs, and if you can get over that fact (as an owner’s ownership in a timeshare has absolutely no rights over the operations of the program, but only privileges to participate and use the program), you will be less upset.

No it does not upset me when my FF miles or hotel points requirements change over time, as I do not pay for them and as such my expectation from them is low-- if I get something of value out of them, great. If not, well, I didn't pay anything for them, so no great loss. They are a free consqeuence of activity I would otherwise engage in.

This is in no way the same as a timeshare which I actually paid for.

And the timeshares whose points requirements keep escalating-- what has happened to their value over time? Many of them are now worthless, don't you agree? You would be happy with Hyatt going down that path?

It seems to me that there is a good chance that Hyatt's ultimate goal is to try to hike the points requirement for as many properties as possible. I don't buy the high demand argument-- I check Hyatt's website very frequently and I can tell you HI reservations are not very hard to come by. Nor do I buy the "levelling the playing field because HI MF are too high arguement" that some on this thread have proposed. HI MF are what? $1250/year? Isn't this the same as Coconut Plantation?!

You can ardently believe, jkc22, that escalating points requirements are a good thing for HVC-- to each his own. But I personally can't see many people being happy to spend thousands of dollars buying into a timeshare system if you're likely to get less by spending more. You might as well just stick with the open market and pay for lodging as you go.

I also think RAL's question is a good one-- what was it that set this change in motion?

H

 

[Carmel85]

Please write to Florida and Chicago HQ if you really are upset and do not think this Carmel Points adjustment is fair.

Ed Crovo is the man and person who Oked this point adjustment just so Carmel could sell units thhat is the facts. As people have said Ed is just a company man and not look out for all of us owners so he is useless in ever helping us owners.

Ed Crovo
Hyatt Vacation Ownership, Inc.
450 Carillon Parkway, Suite 210
St. Petersburg, FL 33716

Mark S. Hoplamazian,
President and Chief Executive Officer
71 South Wacker Drive, 12th Floor
Chicago, IL 60606

H. Charles Floyd, (Ed Crovo's boss)
Chief Operating Officer, North America Operations


So please cut and paste your posts and send them by snail mail and lets get this letter drive started!!!

Also I would suggest you copy your letters to you local Board of Directors where you own a Hyatt Timeshare.

Start writting today send it to Chicago Hyatt HQ. that will make Ed's head turn and start to listen to us owners.

c85


any Marriott,Starwood,Hilton,FourSeason owners, or prospective Hyatt owners want to write please do so we all need to work together just like all the Timeshare Companies do to us.

 

[ecwinch]

Just curious - is Hyatt selling timeshare intervals in California for any out of state properties that would require a California public report to be filed with the DRE for those offerings?

Or is it safe to assume that the HI location is the only resort that a public report has been filed with the DRE?

Just trying to figure out how California law would be invoked for those resorts outside of California. Seems like there would be a lack of jurisdiction.

 

[heathpack]

Just curious - is Hyatt selling timeshare intervals in California for any out of state properties that would require a California public report to be filed with the DRE for those offerings?

Or is it safe to assume that the HI location is the only resort that a public report has been filed with the DRE?

Just trying to figure out how California law would be invoked for those resorts outside of California. Seems like there would be a lack of jurisdiction.

Sorry to take so long to reply-- we've been sick and busy getting ready for the holidays.

When we toured and got our timeshare spiel at HI, they also pitched us Pinon Pointe in Sedona. We could have purchased PP through the Carmel sales office.

And although this does not really matter to the gist of your post: HI is not the only Hyatt property in California. Northstar is also in CA; both are registered with the DRE.

CA law does require that a multi-site timeshare company selling in the state of CA be in compliance with law in every state in which they operate. I'm not saying that Hyatt is not in compliance in any other state, just that as a point of law, the state of CA does care what a timeshare company does in other states.

Now, once again, I am not proposing suing Hyatt. I am just proposing understanding CA timeshare law.

H

 

[D2-S3]

HI points allocation

This could not have changed without the blessing of II. If I owned 2 weeks of 2BR units at HI, then the new point allocation would provide me with around 1300 total additional points, enough to give me an extra 2BR week if the points were deposited into II. There must be something in it for them if they are to be expected to sign off on this.

What might be in it for II is the same "benefit" for the non-HI Hyatt owners. That is, the availability of units to exchange into would increase. This would occur because fewer Hyatt owners would want to spend the points to exchange into it because of the increased cost. Can anyone comment on how easy it has been until now to exchange into HI?

Finally, it is worth noting that HI owners already had extra points allocated to them prior to this new change. The majority of the weeks there are listed as Platinum or Diamond season, and the rest are Gold season. This is supposed to be the way that demand is reflected within the club. No other Hyatt property has a similar distribution of weeks limited to these seasons.

I am not an attorney, and don't know if what they are doing is legal or not. If this is used sparingly and only for the stated purpose it may not cause major problems. However, I find it worrisome that this could be just the start of the devaluation of points because this change occurred shortly after Hyatt went public.

 

[luvtotravel59]

Sorry to take so long to reply-- we've been sick and busy getting ready for the holidays.

When we toured and got our timeshare spiel at HI, they also pitched us Pinon Pointe in Sedona. We could have purchased PP through the Carmel sales office.

And although this does not really matter to the gist of your post: HI is not the only Hyatt property in California. Northstar is also in CA; both are registered with the DRE.

CA law does require that a multi-site timeshare company selling in the state of CA be in compliance with law in every state in which they operate. I'm not saying that Hyatt is not in compliance in any other state, just that as a point of law, the state of CA does care what a timeshare company does in other states.

Now, once again, I am not proposing suing Hyatt. I am just proposing understanding CA timeshare law.

H

I have written to the president of Hyatt Vacation Club, Carol Hray. I am very upset about the increase. I was also told that it is supply vs demand and that because they pay higher maintenance fees, they have the right to increase their points. However, they increase the points by 50% for the standard one bedroom and put it in the same category as the two bedroom. From what I understand, Highland Inn has 1 bedroom lofts which are two stories and standard one bedroom. They have priced other HVC members out from trading into their property. Not only that, but they increased their points for themselves, with out any regard for the whole HVC point system and its members. I wish that we could all pursue this because, as I told Ms. Hray, if this continues, then all properties would do the same thing and what would be the advantage of being HVC owners? The purpose of the program is to be able to travel to other places other than your home resort. Correct?

 

[luvtotravel59]

I agree!

I, for one, do not wish to use Highlands Inn year after year. I have not yet stayed there and don't have any immediate plans to stay there. If I did want to stay there annually, I would have purchased at Highlands Inn.

What is most important is the major change in Hyatt Vacation Club philosophy. While this change is of immediate advantage to Highlands Inn owners, it may open the door to a series of changes to the detriment of all Hyatt Vacation Club members.

The original philosophy behind the Hyatt Vacation Club was to have a program that allowed an owner six months to choose whether he wishes to stay in his purchased unit. If he chooses not to stay in his deeded unit, he can then trade into another Vacation Club unit using comparable points. The main idea was to have the same number of points for the same bedroom size unit, with differences in seasons. Point value for a two bedroom is the same for all two bedrooms in the same season in the Vacation Club. The Highlands Inn restructure is definitely a change in the philosophy of the Hyatt Vacation Club. I can recall during the developer presentation how strongly the sales staff emphasized how well this program functioned.

I still don't understand why this change in points is needed. If a Highlands Inn owner chooses to stay in his deeded week, that week is not available to the Vacation Club. If the Highlands Inn owner wishes to give up his week, he still has the number of points necessary to book at whichever Hyatt Vacation Club unit he wishes. The unit given up then becomes available to others in the Vacation Club at no loss to the original owner.

I do understand the new classifications of two bedroom premier and two bedroom deluxe at the Hyatt Siesta Key because they are actually three bedroom and four bedroom units with additional baths (the third and fourth rooms are without windows, so they are not allowed to be called “bedrooms.”)

Does anyone know how this change in point value was initiated?

From what I understand, Highlands Inn has standard 1br, 1 bedroom lofts (2 story) and two bedrooms. The owners felt that it was unfair that they pay very high maintenance fees compared to other HVC resorts and that owners pay the same amount for points for the lofts as a one bedroom. Hence the vote to increase the points for 1 bedrooms across the board
With that being said, why it is okay for the standard one bedrooms to have increase 51% and have the same point value as two bedroom unit?

This is totally wrong, certainly not fair and equitable to HVC owners across the board. We have been blocked out of their resort for a week stay. Not only that, but they earned additional points for themselves that they can use in the HVC point system for other resorts, like ours. Does that seem fair? Is this legal? How does HVC corporate approve this? This does set a precedent for HVC resorts. This just seemed to slip by all of us and I have written to Carol Hray, President of HVC in Florida asking for her help to get Highlands Inn to reconsider the points for a standard one bedroom.
JB

 

[heathpack]

From what I understand, Highlands Inn has standard 1br, 1 bedroom lofts (2 story) and two bedrooms. The owners felt that it was unfair that they pay very high maintenance fees compared to other HVC resorts and that owners pay the same amount for points for the lofts as a one bedroom. Hence the vote to increase the points for 1 bedrooms across the board
With that being said, why it is okay for the standard one bedrooms to have increase 51% and have the same point value as two bedroom unit?

This is totally wrong, certainly not fair and equitable to HVC owners across the board. We have been blocked out of their resort for a week stay. Not only that, but they earned additional points for themselves that they can use in the HVC point system for other resorts, like ours. Does that seem fair? Is this legal? How does HVC corporate approve this? This does set a precedent for HVC resorts. This just seemed to slip by all of us and I have written to Carol Hray, President of HVC in Florida asking for her help to get Highlands Inn to reconsider the points for a standard one bedroom.
JB

Go get em!

I would not listen to any balderdash about HI thinking their units are worth more because of higher MF and then demanding more points. This was a move by HVC pure and simple. NOT HI owners.

Totally outrageous.

H

 

[nanette0269]

Interesting. I got married at Hyatt 2 years ago and used my Hyatt Hotel points and my timeshare to get enough rooms for all my immediate family...had no issues booking. Was the peak stature because of my wedding?