[2008] Southcape Resort

[Sou13]

"Stealth" bills

There is a discussion on TUG -- "Massachusetts signs non-judicial foreclosure bill for timeshares! Good news" -- that sees the bill that was signed into law in Massachusetts as "Good news" but that Southcape and Sandcastle owners may see as another example of a "stealth" bill. I have posted links to the text of the bill and of changes spelled out in the law which may not be all the changes in the final bill which was enacted October 6, 2010. According to the TUG discussion, if weeks are foreclosed, the Community Association loses all hope of collecting past due maintenance fees and special assessments! The beneficiaries of this law are developers and investment groups who have the financial means to bid on a large block of weeks and get them for pennies on the dollar, leaving the Community Association with little if any control of the resort. If I am mistaken about this, please set me straight!

 

[timeos2]

There is a discussion on TUG -- "Massachusetts signs non-judicial foreclosure bill for timeshares! Good news" -- that sees the bill that was signed into law in Massachusetts as "Good news" but that Southcape and Sandcastle owners may see as another example of a "stealth" bill. I have posted links to the text of the bill and of changes spelled out in the law which may not be all the changes in the final bill which was enacted October 6, 2010. According to the TUG discussion, if weeks are foreclosed, the Community Association loses all hope of collecting past due maintenance fees and special assessments! The beneficiaries of this law are developers and investment groups who have the financial means to bid on a large block of weeks and get them for pennies on the dollar, leaving the Community Association with little if any control of the resort. If I am mistaken about this, please set me straight!

The bill was designed to reduced the costs of foreclosures for Associations by reducing the costly process required to accomplish it. In ANY foreclosure all past due fees/special assessments are lost. But the owner isn't paying anyway so simply having it sit unpaid does not benefit the Association especially if it costs them thousands & a year or more to foreclose & get title.

This way they can act once it is proven the owner will never pay and get the week back & into the hands of a paying owner going forward. The Association would get the title so they have control over who & for what it gets sold.

 

[Carolinian]

The bill was designed to reduced the costs of foreclosures for Associations by reducing the costly process required to accomplish it. In ANY foreclosure all past due fees/special assessments are lost. But the owner isn't paying anyway so simply having it sit unpaid does not benefit the Association especially if it costs them thousands & a year or more to foreclose & get title.

This way they can act once it is proven the owner will never pay and get the week back & into the hands of a paying owner going forward. The Association would get the title so they have control over who & for what it gets sold.

I think the concern is that the bill will allow the HOA, controlled by a developer, to offer the weeks only in large blocks, thus cutting out individual buyers and meaning that the developer will likely be the only bidder. If this is, in fact, in the bill, it is so evil that it makes the whole bill bad. I have not read the bill to know if this is a valid concern, but it is the concern being raised, and I do hope it is NOT in the bill.

 

[timeos2]

I think the concern is that the bill will allow the HOA, controlled by a developer, to offer the weeks only in large blocks, thus cutting out individual buyers and meaning that the developer will likely be the only bidder. If this is, in fact, in the bill, it is so evil that it makes the whole bill bad. I have not read the bill to know if this is a valid concern, but it is the concern being raised, and I do hope it is NOT in the bill.

The bill leaves the sale of the recovered weeks to the control of the Association. If the Association is under Developer control then it is one more reason to change that. There was no attempt, nor should there be, to differentiate between Owner & Developer controlled Associations. That is way beyond the scope of this bill. It was designed strictly to reduce the cost burden on Associations to foreclose on delinquent weeks. It does that and is a positive for well run Associations. If the Association has other issues, such as a contentious Developer control, that is a separate issue and needs to be addressed by the owners not this type of law.

 

[Carolinian]

The bill leaves the sale of the recovered weeks to the control of the Association. If the Association is under Developer control then it is one more reason to change that. There was no attempt, nor should there be, to differentiate between Owner & Developer controlled Associations. That is way beyond the scope of this bill. It was designed strictly to reduce the cost burden on Associations to foreclose on delinquent weeks. It does that and is a positive for well run Associations. If the Association has other issues, such as a contentious Developer control, that is a separate issue and needs to be addressed by the owners not this type of law.

Resorts such as Southcape have a highly abusive developer, who would undoubtedly use this to keep control. The bill should not differentiate between developer and member controlled associations, but it absolutely should prevent developer abuse by requiring any weeks sold to be offered individually NOT as a block. Failure to do this would make this an absolutely awful bill.

 

[Sou13]

There is a discussion on TUG -- "Massachusetts signs non-judicial foreclosure bill for timeshares! Good news" -- that sees the bill that was signed into law in Massachusetts as "Good news" but that Southcape and Sandcastle owners may see as another example of a "stealth" bill. I have posted links to the text of the bill and of changes spelled out in the law which may not be all the changes in the final bill which was enacted October 6, 2010. According to the TUG discussion, if weeks are foreclosed, the Community Association loses all hope of collecting past due maintenance fees and special assessments! The beneficiaries of this law are developers and investment groups who have the financial means to bid on a large block of weeks and get them for pennies on the dollar, leaving the Community Association with little if any control of the resort. If I am mistaken about this, please set me straight!

I tried the link to the law as passed and the first time I couldn't get into it but when I went back to my post on the original "Massachusetts signs non-judicial foreclosure bill for timeshares! Good news" I was able to get into it. The law was amended before being passed and but seems to be pretty much the same as the explanatory version I tried to provide above.

Try this link to view the changes in the original bill: http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/41573436/1907943696/name/HOUSE

 

[timeos2]

Owners - VOTE and watch your Board - you need to be active or bad guys will take over

Resorts such as Southcape have a highly abusive developer, who would undoubtedly use this to keep control. The bill should not differentiate between developer and member controlled associations, but it absolutely should prevent developer abuse by requiring any weeks sold to be offered individually NOT as a block. Failure to do this would make this an absolutely awful bill.

I understand what you are saying & I agree that it isn't a good idea to give developers any new ways to take control. However I disagree that wording a law that is written to ease the cost of foreclosure for Associations to include how the recovered weeks can be resold - or especially to say they cannot be sold in blocks - is making far too many steps into controlling how an Association / Board can operate. It is way out of the scope of this type of law.

Unfortunately it is up to the owners to ride herd on the management / developers. Asking the State to legislate every action isn't going to happen nor should it. It was hard enough getting this needed tool passed - cluttering it up with other items would have guaranteed defeat.

 

[Carolinian]

I understand what you are saying & I agree that it isn't a good idea to give developers any new ways to take control. However I disagree that wording a law that is written to ease the cost of foreclosure for Associations to include how the recovered weeks can be resold - or especially to say they cannot be sold in blocks - is making far too many steps into controlling how an Association / Board can operate. It is way out of the scope of this type of law.

Unfortunately it is up to the owners to ride herd on the management / developers. Asking the State to legislate every action isn't going to happen nor should it. It was hard enough getting this needed tool passed - cluttering it up with other items would have guaranteed defeat.

The problem is that allowed bulk sales of foreclosed weeks means fewer potential bidders, not a good thing for HOA's, and a huge amount of leverage for the bad guys who are in control like NEVS at South Cape to keep control. That FAR outweighs the minor advantage of a little bit more flexibility in sales. This is made worse by entities like NEVS which claim that they do not have to pay m/f's on ''developer weeks'' and when they get title to previously owned weeks, what do you realistically think they will try to designate them as? Of course, I saw how that argue played out at Bodie Island Beach Club. The NC Real Estate Commission got involved, told the developer he DID have to pay m/f's on those weeks, made the developer resign from managing the resort, compelled the developer to reimburse the HOA for past m/f's, and revoked the developer's real estate license. One can only hope that the Massachusetts Real Estate Commission will get involved in straightening things out at South Cape.

I am afraid this poorly conceived part of the law may just lock the bad guys in power too many places, and give less chance for the homeowners to achieve democratic control. That alone makes this law horrible.

 

[Time Out]

Has anyone read the bill?

Are you kidding? It appears no one who has posted here has read the bill or knows what the bill represents.

 

[Sou13]

Wrong, wrong, wrong!

I beg your pardon? Not only have I read the bill, I've even researched and posted the parts being changed!

If Clifford Hagberg lobbied for and possibly even introduced this bill, it doesn't bode well for Southcape and Sandcastle owners.

 

[NEVMSLLC]

I beg your pardon? Not only have I read the bill, I've even researched and posted the parts being changed!

If Clifford Hagberg lobbied for and possibly even introduced this bill, it doesn't bode well for Southcape and Sandcastle owners.

OK, Sou13, enough is enough. I have no legislators "in my pocket", nor did I "pay" any of them to pass this bill. Those accusations are completely ludicrous and assume I am far more powerful that I really am! Come on!

I had absolutely nothing to do with the introduction or the passage of this bill. This bill was sponsored by ARDA and is similar to bills that have been passed in many other states.

I am amused by the completely erroneous interpretations of the bill by all of the non-lawyers here on TUG. Quite frankly, it is one of the best things that has happened for homeowner's associations in recent years. It is the owner's association that is owed the money on delinquent maintenance fees. It is the owner's association that controls the forfeiture process. It is the owner's association that has the opportunity to collect back maintenance fees. It is the association that acquires title to the forfeited weeks. It is the association that can then sell those weeks to generate new maintenance fee paying owners.

You just can't seem to accept the fact that, for homeowner's associations, it's all good.

Cliff

 

[Sou13]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisH http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=204
MA House Bill 4496

MA legislators are making corrections in MGL 183B - specifically addressing defaults on maintenance and assessment fees, making the process easier to foreclose on those delinquent accounts.

While this bill is beneficial in making it easier for those in financial straits to forfeit their unit for resale, it also gives developers the opportunity to buy and or sell large blocks of units by auction in a resulting takeover from the existing Owner's Association.

At Sandcastle in Provincetown, the current management has stated at the annual meeting that our units recouped via this new procedure or small claims court, will be offered 'in bulk' at auction - so members of the existing owners association will NOT be able to buy additional units unless purchased in '100 unit' blocks - therefore essentially allowing for developers like Festiva in our case, to overtake the units and gain majority control.

Also, a bulk sale or auction sale will not necessarily bring the owners association realistic sums of money for prime weeks. Fifty or 100 units sold at in bulk $1000 a piece, prevents most individuals from purchase and allows prime weeks to be sold at significant bargain prices, hurting owners associations financially.

Every MA timeshare owner needs to write to their representative requesting that House Bill 4496 be changed to allow your resort OWNERS ASSOCIATION to have the final say on how reclaimed units are sold and or handled. If you don’t live in MA but own a timeshare in MA, write to the representative in the district where your timeshare is located as you are a taxpayer there.

If you live in MA and own timeshare property in MA, write to both your local representative and the rep in your timeshare district.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/hous...df/ht04496.pdf



When I launched the discussion "Contact the Speaker of the Massachusetts House" I didn't see anything wrong with it, either, but was soon corrected by the Sandcastle owners who attended their annual meeting!

Upon revisiting that discussion I realized why I had been under the impression that "NEVMSLLC" may have had something to do with its introduction and passage. The reason I posted what I did was that I have been contacted by one of the new trustees at Southcape who has been reading my TUG posts and wanted to know what I see wrong with this bill. In the course of the conversation he left me with the impression that Festiva is under the impression the "NEVMSLLC" had introduced and lobbied for the passage of this bill.

So, "NEVMSLLC", if you had nothing to do with it, why don't you set Festiva straight? You and your "reputation" seem to have had a lot to do with Festiva's interest in taking over Southcape Resort according to the trustee who contacted me yesterday!

 

[Sou13]

Southcape legal documents

After more than a year of expressing frustration over not being able to view the documents at Barnstable Capeview Internet Access I have finally learned that I had the capability of viewing them all along!

What I finally learned is that I have to choose my viewing preferences before attempting to view documents. Here at the Westerly Public Library today I was prompted to accept Java and was finally able to view my own deed on a public computer!

The lab tech assistant at the computer lab at the community college showed me how to choose my preferences at the bottom of the Main Menu and told me that most public computers have the Java viewing applet installed.

Now that I'm finally able to view the documents I will post the Book/Page for all important legal documents here on TUG. If anyone is still unable to view these documents, please email me!

 

[scrjs]

Some Potential Problems with New Foreclosure Proceedings

My problem with the new foreclosure proceedings is that it puts owners at the mercy of the developer/ managers who can demand any special assessment fee they want and threaten foreclosure if they don't get it. The trustees of Sandcastle assessed a $2.9M special assessment and then completely ignored the deed when sending out his special assessment bills. First, many owners do not trust the good intentions of the trustees in making the $2.9M assessment given that their first act as trustees was to shake down owners for possibly $1M and pocket the profits in the Festiva sales scam. Second many owners were overcharged by hundreds of dollars because of the way the bill was calculated. Owners who disputed the bill were completely ignored and have never been offered any evidence from the deed or law that the calculation of the special assessment was legal. Even though sme owners paid what they owed according to the deed, they have recently received bills for the balance, late fees in the $100s, and a copy of the new forclosure legislation which appears to be a threat to foreclose. Making it easier for dishonest managers to foreclose on units was probably not the intention of the legislators, but it is an unintended consequence.

 

[e.bram]

With most(if not all) HOAs not willing to take back deeds(at no cost) from TS owners, what benefit will this law provide the HOAs.

 

[scrjs]

The resorts will not take back deeds if they feel that you will continue to pay your bills, but if they have given up ever getting money from you, they may want to try to get the unit turned over to someone who is more willing to pay their annual fees. That is clearly to the benefit of all owners, but I wrote to my legislators saying that before they passed the law, they should add more protection from arbitrary special assessment bills sent out without sufficient explanation about costs, no information about the bidding process, no access to financial records, etc. If the management is spending my money, I want to know where it is going.

 

[TheB]

Any info on SouthCape Resort

New owners to the SouthCape Resort and we are looking for an info on anyone who has stayed there recently. We have a week in November 2010 so anyone thats been there over the summer who has any info on the new owners and management?

 

[Sou13]

Reply to TheB

This discussion took off when New England Vacation Services took over Southcape Resort in 2008 and affiliated us with the Festiva Resorts Adventure Club. It takes you through all the agonies of Southcape owners who are being "coerced" into signing over their deeded weeks to "points" in the Festiva Resorts Adventure Club. In 2009 the conversion price was $3185, but now that NEVS has sold us out to the Festiva Development Group the price has gone up. There are many discussions here on TUG, the most relevant of which, in addition to this one, is "Festiva takes over resort" in the U.S. Eastern forum (you are already in it if you are reading this post).

The "Southcape Archives" link in my signature is the link to the southcapeowners Yahoogroup, where all the links are public and you can catch up with the owners who are on my elist. Be glad you found us!

 

[Sou13]

Owner update

I'm back from the last split week I'm supposed to be able to spend at Southcape. I suggest "supposed to be able" because my reading of the Master Deed suggest that float week owners should be able to split their weeks. However, since Festiva has taken over as the management company, only Festiva Adventure Club members get to split their weeks. Yet Festiva pays no more in maintenance fees to Southcape than weeks owners do!

Now that Festiva has taken over as the "developer" and the management company, here are some of the changes I've noticed:

Why Festiva toilet paper? Are we saving money by buying in bulk from Festiva? I could make some unsavory comments about what Club members can do with their contracts but Festiva seems to have supplied it for all guests instead.

Why no more shampoo and conditioner? Now that Festiva Club members have to fly to New England to use their points, isn't it logical to spare them from having to pack travel size shampoos in their carry-on bags?

What became of the alarm clocks? My unit didn't have even one, and no way to program the TV to wake me up. When I realized that I had forgotten to bring my cell phone charger, I could only hope that I'd wake up in time to check out by 10 a.m.

I checked out the new Mashpee Public Library but couldn't sign up for the Internet without paying for a guest pass, and since I don't own a laptop I opted to wait until today to post my comments.

Overall I could see no benefit to me as a deeded float week owner from the Festiva takeover of Southcape. Even the new TV in the clubhouse isn't used for any purpose other than promoting surrendering your deeded weeks to the Club. I met one former owner who did that and has opted to continue spending the same week that she already owned at Southcape. She paid New England Vacation Services/Outfield Marketing $3185 for the privilege of having a fireplace instead of a jacuzzi, paid Festiva more in Club fees than she would have paid for maintenace fees at Southcape, and now she has to pay the $400 special assessment to Festiva instead of to Southcape! Does that look like a win/win situation to anyone? ANYONE?

 

[Sou13]

2011 maintenance fee bills?

Has anyone received the MF billing for 2011? Could mine have been lost in the mail?

 

[Russ45]

Has anyone received the MF billing for 2011? Could mine have been lost in the mail?

I didn't get mine either so I called them. It's due by January 1 with a 30 day grace period I was told. I paid mine over the phone with a credit card and they emailed me a receipt.

 

[Sou13]

Did you call Southcape or Festiva?

 

[Russ45]

Did you call Southcape or Festiva?

Festiva, go to their website and call owner services. They may not answer but they did call back same day.

 

[scrjs]

Getting out of Festiva contract

After the WBZ expose, Festiva promised to return deeds to any former Sandcastle owners who felt they transferred deeds under pressure. Of course, now that the spotlight isn't on them anymore, they are again trying to fleece their members. I have learned that in order to get out of the FAC contract, Festiva is demanding that members pay the maintenance fee for next year as well as a fee of about $300 to cancel the contract. This is despite the illegal sales tactics and the fact that deeds were not transferred legally. So former owners lose the $3000 they paid in fees to transfer and now have to pay maintenance and cancellation fees on top of that. No doubt if they get their deeds back they will get a bill from Sandcastle. I hope that anyone approached with this deal will refuse to pay.

 

[Sou13]

2011 maintenance fee billing

The 2011 maintenance fee billing that was scheduled to go out in November finally arrived the week before Christmas. What a Christmas present:whoopie:!

According to the accompanying info, Southcape owners are supposed to be able to pay online by credit card, and need to register to do so. However, after having my registration confirmed, I am unable to login and keep getting the message "User Name And/Or Password Is Invalid. Please Try Again."

I've heard from another owner who tried for three days, and nothing worked!

I tried to reply to his message and am finding that today my email doesn't work, either!

A Festiva member who paid online has reported that there is no fee for paying by credit card, if only you can login!

The only consolation is that we are being given until March 31 to pay, so let's hope the problems at www.festiva.travel and www.yahoo.com get resolved by then.