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[2008] Detailed Review: Phillips Club NYC (part 1)

TPCIIOwner

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My Phillips experience has been incredible

have been an owner for exactly one year of a one bedroom. Love everything about it including staff, unit quality, maintenance, location, value. We have used our unit over 75 days and in the year have only once not been able to get a reservation. Some have been within a week, but since you can have two reservations on the books at any time for up to 7 days AND can make another reservation the minute you check out, we have not had a problem. IN ADDITION to the two reservations you can have on the books, you can reserve another reservation of up to three nights at your size level if one is available. This third reservation must be made within five days of check in. If your unit size is not available you can reserve any unit size that is available for one or two nights 48 hours before check in.

Life is not a balance sheet -- and the "rate of return" or "rates per night" are tough to calculate because use is variable and projected returns on alternative investments is so unpredictable in these times. Since the economic crash when I do my calculations (given a 25% decline in my investment values), the cost on our per night use is probably negative! :)

I think the availability is high (except for peak weeks like the week before Christmas) because most people grossly overestimate how much they are going to use second homes, even if they are a fractional.

This is one of the best decisions I have ever made in my life because I have the best of all worlds: ownership for about what I need or what without purchase of an apartment that I would never use enough to justify it. Also, no politics of coop or condo board are involved here. You deal with professional sales, reservations, housekeeping and other staff.
 
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rsnash

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A couple of you have mentioned more nights of usage over the 1/8 ownership amount (~45 days, but have used 60+ days). How does that work? Do you pay extra when you book more than you own? If no units of your ownership size are available, do they upgrade you?
 

Texan in NYC

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A couple of you have mentioned more nights of usage over the 1/8 ownership amount (~45 days, but have used 60+ days). How does that work? Do you pay extra when you book more than you own? If no units of your ownership size are available, do they upgrade you?

1. No. Usage above your 1/8th ownership is "free", subject only to the standard housekeeping and cleaning fees. There are no limits on usage, other than compliance with the reservation rules.

2. If your unit is not available within 48 hours (maybe 72 hours, I can't remember), you will be upgraded to any available unit, and will pay the applicable housekeeping/cleaning fees for the unit you are booked into.

For what it's worth, our usage for Q1 2009 looks like it will be on a 100 days/year run-rate. (This is a distorted number, however, because Q1 is the seasonally easiest time to get reservations).
 

tombo

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1. No. Usage above your 1/8th ownership is "free", subject only to the standard housekeeping and cleaning fees. There are no limits on usage, other than compliance with the reservation rules.

2. If your unit is not available within 48 hours (maybe 72 hours, I can't remember), you will be upgraded to any available unit, and will pay the applicable housekeeping/cleaning fees for the unit you are booked into.

For what it's worth, our usage for Q1 2009 looks like it will be on a 100 days/year run-rate. (This is a distorted number, however, because Q1 is the seasonally easiest time to get reservations).

Simple math tells you that this can't work indefinetelly. If 3 people use 100 days each a year, then a total of 65 days are left for the other 5 owners (averaging 13 days usage a year for the remaining 5 owners, not the 45 days they paid for). Of course there have to be days where a unit is not available for maintenance so a full 365 can't be available for owners anyway. It is impossible for 5 owners to do 75 days each because that would be a total of 375 days and 3 owners would not get to use a single day. If owners can reserve unlimited weeks and trade them, use them, or give them to family and friends,then there will be big problems ahead. No one wants to pay that kind of yearly fees and initial investment to be told when they finally can get away that there is no room at the inn.
 

Texan in NYC

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Simple math tells you that this can't work indefinetelly. ... If owners can reserve unlimited weeks and trade them, use them, or give them to family and friends,then there will be big problems ahead. No one wants to pay that kind of yearly fees and initial investment to be told when they finally can get away that there is no room at the inn.

Clearly, not everybody can overuse the asset, because usage is zero-sum. That said, it isn't clear to me what the overall usage patterns are for all members--and whether there are a small number of overusers, with a vast majority of underusers; or alternatively, whether every owner is aggressively competing to be an overuser, with only some owners being successful at this and most feeling like that asset is not worthwhile.

I suspect most people are under-users. Assuming 7-day stays, one would need to take 6.6 trips/year to fully use a 1/8th fractional interest. This is pretty high usage for anyone from out of town, let alone somebody from Florida, California, or Europe where a number of users live. I suspect that usage is directly proportional to proximity to NYC--very high usage by in-town owners like myself who use it as a guest room; fairly high usage from TriState residents; next highest usage probably from Northeast owners within a 3 hour car drive and/or people within a 2 hour flight; and then the least usage from Europeans and owners on the West Coast.

I think historically, the PC runs at around a 90% utilization, which is misleading, because weekends (particularly long weekends), and certain seasons (like Spring, Thanksgiving, Xmas/NYE, US Open, etc) the club is probably 100% full, whereas during winter, and during the week, usage is lower.

I did want to comment on your point that "f owners can reserve unlimited weeks and trade them, use them, or give them to family and friends,then there will be big problems ahead."

Owners cannot reserve "unlimited weeks"; they are limited to 2 advance reservations (max 7 days each) "on the book" at any given time, plus 1 "short term" reservation made within 72 hours of check-in, plus 1 "annual" reservation made each May.

Also, the Phillips Club 1 has been fully sold for quite a while (except, I think there are a few 3 bedroom units still unsold), and the reservation rules have been functioning quite well as far as I can tell.
 
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dexter87

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I'd also be curious to hear your experience with resale of your unit (how long, broker or FSBO, price appreciation/loss, etc.)

By the way, to the extent that anybody on the forum is interested in buying a unit, the Phillips Club maintains a website for owners in which we can list units for sale. It's password protected (and I wont share that), but I'll happily look to see if there are any units being offered for sale, and pass along the contact information of the seller.

My husband and I have been interested in the Phillips Club since it opened but are finally ready to become owners now that our children are ready to leave home and we can look forward to spending more time enjoying New York City. We are interested in studios or one-bedroom (peferred) units in both Phllips Club 1 & 2. If you could help us with any information regarding the available units for sale and any other helpful suggestions, we will be very grateful.
 

roberts270

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I have been interested in purchasing a 1 bedroom unit at Phillips Club NYC. Can you tell me if anything is for sale by owner? What price are they asking? Thanks, Robert
 

tbone586

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Question - Phase 1 vs Phase 2

Hi, appreciate advise. Considering a one bedroom purchase. Other than newer furnishings in Phase 2, could anyone please explain the pros and cons of purchasing a one bedroom in phase one (resale), vs. a Broadway or Club one br in phase two?

Any major differences in building construction, soundproofing, or other issues between the two phases, with regard to one bedrooms? Looks like the phase one 1-br is a little smaller overall vs a phase 2 club 1-br, but also looks like the older phase might have slightly larger bathroom, is that true?

Other than TV's, what has recently been updated in the phase 1 PC units?

And anyone with information on private resale of a one bedroom can feel free to respond via private message.

Thanks!
 

TPCIIOwner

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Phillips Club II website with sales prices is public now.

Go to www.phillipsclub2.com for current pricing. To my knowledge the sales office is only handling Phillips Club II sales since they want to sell out that building. Owners in TPC I appear to be selling through brokers/on their own.

Current prices are DEEPLY discounted from 18 months ago when Broadway one bedrooms sold for $220,000. Now selling for $175,000.
 
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I'd also be curious to hear your experience with resale of your unit (how long, broker or FSBO, price appreciation/loss, etc.)

By the way, to the extent that anybody on the forum is interested in buying a unit, the Phillips Club maintains a website for owners in which we can list units for sale. It's password protected (and I wont share that), but I'll happily look to see if there are any units being offered for sale, and pass along the contact information of the seller.

My husband and I have had our eye on Phillips Club for many years! We are from Florida but visit the city 4-5 times per year. We are interested in sharing the ownership of the unit with a partner but have been unable to talk any of our friends into doing it. I was wondering if there is a way to contact current owners to see if they would be interested in selling half of their share to us and forming an LLC to own the fractional ownership together?
 

zentraveler

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Phillips Club Review (September 25-October 2, 2009 as a direct trade for Four Seasons Aviara)

Overall we thought this property was lovely and perfect in many ways:
fabulous location steps from Lincoln Center and the new Alice Tully hall and
the stop for the 1 subway line, access to a state of the art gym, and
helpful staff.

Check in and pre-arrival phone calls with questions were efficiently
handled. We shipped a box ahead and it was waiting in our apartment when we arrived. We had other packages shipped to us as well. Arrangements for a departure limo were not quite as smooth, and if I had not called twice to verify there may have been a hitch. Similarly, we requested newspapers two days in a row and neither day did we get them over the weekend. It seemed to work better during the week. There was daily maid service. Towels were replaced daily and sheets seemed to be changed every 3 days or so.

Free Wi-Fi was available (password given on check in) although
disappointingly, there was a charge for every phone call made on the phones
in the unit (my least favorite nickel and time tactic) and my AT&T service
worked so badly that I could not really make calls. My husband's T-Mobile
was fine.

Our apartment was a 1 BDRM in the phase 1 of The Phillips Club (TPC) which
had been renovated a year earlier according to staff. We had a 3rd floor
unit on the West 66th St. side, but on the back side of the building that
was exceedingly quiet and peaceful. Out our windows were some trees and the equipment that was back there was shielded by lattice and was very pleasant. It was north facing, and there were tall buildings in the vicinity, but
plenty of light for what we needed. There were two closets, ample drawer
storage in the bedroom, bathroom and kitchen.

The kitchen had a full refrigerator, oven and dishwasher, microwave, basic
and minimal but adequate dishes (for 4) and very basic cooking gear. The
coffee pot was your basic glass pot automatic and the wine glasses were also basic (neither the worst I have had but certainly not the best either).

The living room was nicely furnished with sofa, chair, desk and table with 2
chairs and a very large (42 inches?) flat panel TV. There was also a nice
Bose stereo with subwoofer and inputs that allowed for playing music from
your computer or iPhone if you had the proper cable.

The bedroom had a king bed, dresser, chair, safe and another TV (35
inches?). Pillows were king foam and they brought me a feather pillow when I requested it. Linens were perfectly nice.

Bath was amply sized, with a 1 sink, a decent shower and Frette towels, but
had a lousy hair dryer and no make up mirror. Lots of storage. Full tub.

The neighborhood was terrific. We had access to the Reebok/Sports Club NY
which was 3 very short blocks away and terrific. Very full class schedule
(yoga, aerobics etc.), good pool, café, and big locker room. As good as they
come. Next door to TPC is a mid-sized, upscale grocery with a large
selection of prepared food, good cheese, fish, meat etc. Open every day
until 9 pm. There is a newsstand 1/2 block away and an AMAZING wine store at 67th and Columbus (4 short blocks) close to the gym and a large (but always busy) post office. There is a farmer's market across from Lincoln Center a few days a week and a huge Borders 1/2 block away. Many good restaurants in the area and the cross-town bus is a block away.

The property seemed to have a mix of longer term stays and shorter term Bell
staff were helpful and available.

Happy to answer questions.
 

Cathyb

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Thank you for a great review! What exchange company did you use and how much in advance did you place your request?
 

DeniseM

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WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
a direct trade for Four Seasons Aviara

Looks like this was a private exchange between 2 owners.
 

alwysonvac

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SOLD (DVC, FSRC)
What exchange company did you use and how much in advance did you place your request?

Four Seasons Residence Club and the Phillips Club have a direct exchange program.
Posts #13 thru #22 in this thread talks a little about the direct exchange program between FS and PC
 

zentraveler

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Four Seasons Residence Club and the Phillips Club have a direct exchange program.
Posts #13 thru #22 in this thread talks a little about the direct exchange program between FS and PC


Yes, this was a direct exchange that was done directly through the Four Seasons Residence Club. Exchanging directly with a TPC owner would also be possible, but not how this happened.
 

ozergroup

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Resale info

The best place to find resales is from brokers - not the TPC itself or the owner resale website. TPC charges a 20% sales commission compared to much less for brokers. In my experience, the owner website of resales is more people just testing the water for resale and not motivated sellers. Allison Connor is a broker at Brown Harris Stevens. She seems to get the largest number of these listings. There are multiple for sale right now.

As a former owner, I know this property well and would love to own again. Feel free to ask any questions.

-mark
 

letsgobobby

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this sounds very appealing. Since the 1/8 share ~45 days is truly 'yours' can you also exchange it, ie through a home exchange program? Do others rent their days out (I would not want to do that)?

What are current annual fees, and how have those evolved over time? It currently looks like ~ $9k per year + nominal per-day/stay fees (cleaning, wardrobe, etc). In about 2001, when the New York Times wrote an article about TPC, the fees were about $6k per year, implying 50% over 9 years or approximately 4.6% per year during that time frame. That's somewhat higher than inflation, but the figures are rough estimates.
 

Texan in NYC

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The annual fees for a studio are much less than $9k a year. We prepaid our 2010 HOA fees, which ran around $4000 this year. If you assume 45 days of full usage, that is another $950 in usage costs; if you assume your 45 days were spread across 9 different stays, that would be an additional $350 in checkout fees. So total cost of ownership for a Phillips 1 studio is $5300 per year, or $117 per night (excluding cost of capital charges, which would be near zero in this investment environment).
 

letsgobobby

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Thanks for the clarification on fees. What about renting or exchanging? If I am only going to need 20 days, can I offer up my remaining 25 days to someone (for free or a fee) in exchange for utilizing their flat in, say, Paris?
 

Kagehitokiri2

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yes. i dont know of any fractionals that restrict, as they are ownership. (maybe castiglion del bosco does, but nothing else comes close to it.)

* if youre looking at fractionals, look for ones that allow unlimited space available use. (with DCs, only m private residences offers that right now.)

elan might even be DC-style >
http://www.elanprc.com/FAQ/

Owner-Members may also stay at other properties within The Élan Collection on an available, flex-time basis.

Twice a year, Owner-Members will submit a priority time reservation request for their vacation residence. If they would like to stay at another property within The Élan Collection, they may exchange their guaranteed use rights for flex time. They will also benefit from unlimited additional access whenever space is available in their own residence, as well as the other residences within the portfolio, subject to the policies of The Élan Collection Reservation System.

karma also has a hybrid where you own a hotel residence (in rental pool) but have DC-style use, and possibly DC exchange.

some DCs allow anyone to use your nights, but renting for profit is officially not allowed. (like jet fractionals/cards)
 
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Any Phillips Club Members...?

Hello to all the Phillips Club Fans,
I'm a student at Juilliard graduating May 20th and although my parents stay at the Phillips Club as a hotel very, very often, I do not have access to the Library. I need a place to congregate my extended family for an afternoon and was hoping a member of Phillips Club I could write a short letter on my behalf. I understand it's quite a liability, but I hope someone will be generous enough to understand. My email is mcj@juilliard.edu . Please help and graduating Juilliard Student go out into the world! If you're a member, it'll only take a few minutes. Thank you!

Mark
mcj@juilliard.edu
 

AreAre22

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The Phillips Club

I am thinking about purchasing into The Phillips Club and cam across this thread. I see most of these entries are old and wondered what everyone's thoughts are now - and if there is any advice you could impart.

Much appreciated.
 
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