[2006] How much homework help is too much?

[3kids4me]

My son is starting high school tomorrow. He will be taking Honors English; he qualified for this class with some secret combination of test scores and grades. (He took the SATs as a 13 year old and scored a 570 on the verbal section, so he is no dummy.)

My question is this: Honors English students had to read a book over the summer, annotate a section of pages, and write an essay about how the author developes her craft to define her characters and theme. The topic is pretty vague. My son completed his essay but it could use a good proofread/edit, and some rewording in places. (It is grammatically correct, but, for instance, there are some segues that could use improving.) Is this something that a teacher would expect a parent to help with? Or do you think a student should show up with their essay as written, with no input from the parent? (By the way, this teacher has a reputation for judging kids based on that first essay, with your grade never seeming to vary for the rest of the year.)

In general, if your high schooler writes a paper at home, how much do you help him or her, if at all?

Thanks for the input!

Sharon

 

[Luanne]

In general, if your high schooler writes a paper at home, how much do you help him or her, if at all?

Not at all.

I've actually never given either of my kids a lot of homework help. I didn't do the class projects for them, even the teachers said they knew who did the projects. I didn't feel like I was doing them any favors by helping. Not to say that if they asked for assistance I didn't step in. I would do proof reading, if asked, or in some cases if it was part of the teacher's requirement to have someone proof read. But most of the time the girls did all of their homework on their own.

 

[azsunluvr]

Good question! I didn't have a problem looking over some assignments and while, praising the work in general, mentioning that I saw a couple of things that didn't flow right or whatever. Then they'd read it over again and were often able to come up with the solution. If they didn't catch a misspelling, I'd point it out and have them correct it. If, after a revision, I still felt there was a grammar or flow problem, I'd point it out, but also tell them that if they felt it was ok as is, then it was ok with me. If they didn't ask me to look it over again after a revision, that was fine, too. It's their work and they should take responsibility for it.

 

[kewanee]

I proofread and will point out spelling mistakes that the spellchecker didn't catch (like 'here' and 'hear' - he is a horrible speller and proofreader). I also
point out obvious sentences where he dropped a word when typing. I do not correct the content. In middle school, if it was really bad, I might re-read the assignment with him and ask him at each step of the directions - did you cover this? do you think you did a good job on this? what grade would you give yourself? ... We just started high school also, and I am trying hard to let him do his own work. He just had a writing assignment and I did ask him to go through the assignment and make sure he had included everything that was asked. I didn't do it for him or even look at the directions.

 

[mamiecarter]

Go ahead

It is very kosher to proof read, make sugestions, point out problems. As long as he writes it himself. Smart writers all get this kind of input when they get to the end of the writing stage.

 

[Janie]

I always offer proofreading help, and give suggestions on structure and flow. My husband and I both manage teams of writers for a living, and we know that even professionals need a second "eye" on their work.

I don't re-write, or require my kids to incorporate my suggestions on assignments.

 

[chap7]

I think it's fine to point out something that doesn't sound right and suggest that he re-word it but that's about it. In the end all the words should be his own.

 

[wackymother]

I would help on this one only because of the teacher's rep. If he/she is going to judge the kid's work based on the first paper, then you should make sure that first paper is as polished as possible.

My DH is a HS teacher and would probably disagree with this advice. He would say that the teacher is using that first paper to "place" the kid within the group in terms of writing ability, vocabulary, grammar, expressive language....and I'm sure that's true, but since I'm usually the one dealing with our kids' teachers up close and personal, I know they're not all as high-minded as DH is. I would want my kid to go in looking spectacular for that first paper. After that, the kids are on their own. But it's a good idea to make a good first impression!

 

[Fern Modena]

Proofreading is fine, although he should be using his word processing program's spell checker and grammar checker too. They aren't perfect, of course, but he should use them. He should also reread his content a few times to see if it makes sense.

As for helping him reword or rewrite, I say NO. He's taking the course, and it should be *his* work. You can suggest that he rewrite it, if you must, but that's about all...

 

[EAM]

Ask the teacher

Some teachers say that getting any type of outside help from another person is cheating or plagiarism. Others encourage students to have peers as "study buddies" or older students as tutors. Sometimes they encourage students to get outside help, sometimes that is expressly forbidden. Sometimes the teacher is the only permitted source of help, but the teacher is pleased when a student comes to him or her with a draft of a paper and asks what can be done to improve it before it is due.

If the essay is not due on the first day of school, I would suggest that he take his draft to the teacher (before or after school) and ask how it could be improved before the final version is due.

 

[3kids4me]

Thank you everyone. He left about a half an hour ago for his first day of high school (sniff sniff). The essay was indeed due today, and hopefully he is proud of what he produced.

Sharon

 

[KforKitty]

I'm a compulsive proofreader and if my DS asks me to look over his work I cannot stop myself from pointing out his errors. His ideas are always his own, although sometimes he will bounce things off me, but I do believe that we learn by our mistakes and we sometimes need help in identifying these.

So what did you decide in the end?

Kitty

 

[ctreelmom]

Hi Sharon,

In a perfect world, your son should just turn in the paper. BUT I have also learned, sometimes at my child's expense, that that is not what the majority of the kids are doing, and unfortunately, not all teachers can tell.

I'd suggest that you point out the transitions that need work, and jot some questions in the margins for him to ponder that will flesh out his thoughts without actually rewriting it yourself. That way, you are acting as his editor, helping him learn how to make his writing better on his own, without doing the work for him.

Joan

 

[pedro47]

Some, checking for grammar and misspell words. But, I would never re - write the compostion or complete a project for a student. I wish TUGS had spell-check.

 

[ellend]

I agree with this one, where the input is more like another lesson to get the student thinking, rather than a rewrite. A previous poster was also right in saying that everyone needs a second eye on their work to spot ambiguities and spelling mistakes etc (just look at our dashed off postings to prove this point).

One tip, get your son to leave it for a few days before rereading, that way, his eye is fresh too.

I proofread and will point out spelling mistakes that the spellchecker didn't catch (like 'here' and 'hear' - he is a horrible speller and proofreader). I also
point out obvious sentences where he dropped a word when typing. I do not correct the content. In middle school, if it was really bad, I might re-read the assignment with him and ask him at each step of the directions - did you cover this? do you think you did a good job on this? what grade would you give yourself? ... We just started high school also, and I am trying hard to let him do his own work. He just had a writing assignment and I did ask him to go through the assignment and make sure he had included everything that was asked. I didn't do it for him or even look at the directions.

 

[PStreet1]

As a teacher who taught honors English and A.P English for many years, my advice is to read through the essay and simply put question marks in the margin where it doesn't seem quite clear to you. Your son can then look at those spots more objectively and see if he wants to do anything about them. I used to advise my students to read the essay out loud to someone else. It's amazing what they can catch themselves if someone else is listening.

 

[merc]

I agree totally with the last post on using question marks to indicate possible problems. There is a specific context to consider here that it is a student writing for formal credit in high school; it is considered unethical in any formal education setting for any outside party to take a direct part in the final form of a paper for credit. (If it is not a document for school credit then it isn't the same type of situation.) This ethic is obviously in place for writing exams and is also expected for any work handed in for credit in high school or college. Rather than focusing on the grade for one paper or another, students need to learn the larger lessons of how to look things up, be careful and edit, be self-reliant, learn from mistakes and so on.

 

[CaliDave]

My kids teachers tell us to let the kids do thier homework on their own.
Then once done.. Proof read and help them fix any problems.
Its either going to be the parents teaching the kids the proper answers or it will be the teacher, marking up the paper. Typically the parents will have more time to go over each issue and teach the kids.
Its all about learning, whether they learn from the teacher or the parent. Why does it matter?

By the time the essay or homework is graded by the teacher, its too late. The student looks at it and goes on his way. If the parent grades it before he turns it in. I think he'll learn how to fix it and the proper way to write.

As you can see from my writing.. my parents didn't help me..lol..

 

[BSQ]

a tip to improve cathing errors while proof reading .... read it backwards.

 

[Blondie]

I teach honors English to ninth graders and here are some thoughts I have. Read and discuss the piece, but do so without a pen in your hand. Please resist the urge to write on the paper. It is not yours; it is his. Have him read the piece ALOUD to hear the flow and cadence of his words. This is also a great way to detect errors. Ultimately, kids must learn to proof their own work and he has to understand that you will not always be there to do it for him. Let him stumble just a little if need be. If he is as bright as he sounds he will learn to edit and revise himself. It drives me crazy when I mark an error or point one out in a conference only to hear a student say, "Whoops. My mom didn't catch that." It really does cause many kids to rely on someone else to catch their mistakes. When we are in the final conference stage after working on a paper for 4-6 days some kids sit down and hand me the paper. Then they say, "Just tell me what to fix." I shock them by saying, "It's is your job to know what to fix. What specific are do you need help with?" The point is that I tell them repeatedly and they keep a log of a "hit list" of what to look for and fix. I try to wean the ninth grades from the middle school mentality of the teacher or parent being the one to detect all the problems with a piece of writing. One more thing- after they get the paper back with generic comments like "Fix run on sentences" (which we have covered in great depth!!) the kids are free to do a rewrite due the very next day. Cali Dave said that the kid just looks at the grade and that is the end of it. Well, he is correct but that is not the end of it for me. The kids have another opportunity to correct the errors on their own and with the help of some reinforcement from their grammar book. Then I will re-grade the paper. And yes--it makes a mountain of correcting but it really works.

 

[merc]

My kids teachers tell us to let the kids do thier homework on their own.
Then once done.. Proof read and help them fix any problems.
Its either going to be the parents teaching the kids the proper answers or it will be the teacher, marking up the paper. Typically the parents will have more time to go over each issue and teach the kids.
Its all about learning, whether they learn from the teacher or the parent. Why does it matter?

By the time the essay or homework is graded by the teacher, its too late. The student looks at it and goes on his way. If the parent grades it before he turns it in. I think he'll learn how to fix it and the proper way to write.

As you can see from my writing.. my parents didn't help me..lol..

The difference is that the parent's involvement usually happens before the grading whereas the teacher's happens after/during the grading. By all means go over your child's marked essays, etc and help them learn then.
But if you use your skills to improve the grade in the first place, then there is an ethical problem.

 

[Gadabout]

I don't think you should help with schoolwork at all, unless your child is in special ed (the schools can't possibly cater to every single special needs child out there). If you have to help, or reinterpret, or, worse yet, actually *teach*, you might just as well save time and money and homeschool. (End of rant. )

But, unfortunately, it is an extremely rare parent that thinks this way. Most books out there in the "how to help your child succeed in school" genre pretty much subscribe to the notion that parents should be actually doing projects and such for their children, to the point where if a child actually does his/her own work it comes off as being substandard in comparison. And sadly, most teachers don't know the difference (because the practice is so prevalent), so the student doing the right thing is penalized.

 

[dgdbloe]

I agree with having them read the paper out loud- or I'll read it to them. They can hear the flow that way. I will not fix anything. High school is way too late to be doing that- I even think middle school is. If we correct papers they write- what happens when they have an in school assignment ? We just ret'd from college orientation for our 1st child. Head of student affairs hit it right on when he said when most parents help their child with schoolwork they are more often than not hurting them. These kids get to college and suddenly have problems that parents helped create. I think its okay to look over shoulder and see what/how they're doing but not to interfer. Rough drafts are usually handed in for teacher remarks and that's the way I think it should be.

 

[camachinist]

My compliments to the teachers here. Glad to read that such a commitment to the learning process still exists. I wish the OP's son's teacher was more like that (realizing that one paper does not a year-long education make).

My parents never "helped" me with any schoolwork at all. Actually, that's incorrect. They bought me an unabridged dictionary, a thesarus and procured me a library card They also enjoyed listening to my essays

Now, my wife gets mad at me because I don't correct her ("you know it's wrong so why don't you tell me?"). I say "that's not how you learn, hon, if others does your work for you". She grew up a bit differently than I did. So, I dodge the incoming brick and move on

Pat

 

[carpediem]

I take a very different view than most of the replies on this board thus far. I believe that the parent is the primary educator. I believe that it is my responsibility to ensure my children receive the best education possible and that I need to make every effort in that regard.

When my children bring home homework or classwork I look over it to see if they could do better. I suggest books to read that may stretch their abilities. I occassionally have them correct classwork that I feel warrants a second look and does not reflect their abilities.

I let the teachers know my expectations at the beginning of the school year and conference with them throughout the year. I believe in a partnership between parents-teachers-children. We are working together for the success of our children.

I have seen too many instances where children were left unchallenged by both parents and teachers with very little to inspire or aspire to. It is healthy to have expectations of your children and your teachers. It makes good sense to help them with their homework and discuss ideas, give suggestions and deliver lots of encouragement. My daughter takes some of my suggestions and tells me "no" to others (she's a middle schooler). Her writing, I believe, has improved as well as her vocabulary.

I had a situation where my son was bringing home A's and B's and the work he was producing was no where near that quality. With the help of the school staff we placed him in another class which was a bit more challenging and which helped him improve his quality of work tremendously.

Get involved and stay involved is all I can say.