13 month advantage fails

[m61376]

BUT there is that pesky "to occupy" which is never enforced, as far as I know, and in fact is completely ignored by the sales reps and Vacation Ownership Advisors. Think about it, though - how is it even possible for an owner "to occupy" two or more concurrent weeks?

Technically by occupy they mean using the owned week; weeks can be occupied by the owner, family, friends, etc..

While the 13 month rule was designed for owner use and not trading, many here have exploited the system to maximize their trade value. Years ago when making consecutive reservations you had to specifically request separate reservation numbers but, from what I've heard, they are just commonly given out now.

Unless enough owners protest loudly enough that the system is being exploited things will remain as they are. Even if an issue was made about this, other owners would contend they have a right to use their week the way they want to (use/rent/trade), so it is hard to strike a balance. Unless it affects their bottom line, Marriott is likely to continue turning a blind eye to the practice.

 

[m61376]

No one can provide this because it doesn't exist. No weeks are reserved for single week owners, see previous posts. 50% are held back from early booking by multiple week owners but that doesn't mean that only single week owners can book them.

Right- who the weeks are reserved for is not discussed- the policy is that 50% of the inventory is released at exactly 9AM EST 12 months before the first day to reserve any given week and that multiple week owners reserving 2 or more consecutive or contiguous weeks may do so at 13 months before the first week of their connected weeks. As pointed out, at some resorts (Ocean Pointe comes to mind, for ex.) where owners may own 10 weeks, the first week can be reserved several weeks before the 13 month mark, since the last week in the string would be at the 13 month mark.

 

[dioxide45]

Right- who the weeks are reserved for is not discussed- the policy is that 50% of the inventory is released at exactly 9AM EST 12 months before the first day to reserve any given week and that multiple week owners reserving 2 or more consecutive or contiguous weeks may do so at 13 months before the first week of their connected weeks. As pointed out, at some resorts (Ocean Pointe comes to mind, for ex.) where owners may own 10 weeks, the first week can be reserved several weeks before the 13 month mark, since the last week in the string would be at the 13 month mark.

Really any remaining inventory is released at the 12 month mark. There may be more than 50% still available at this time.

The first week in the reservation has to be at the 13 month mark for that week from when you are booking it. If someone is booking 8 consecutive weeks then that last week is actually booked closer to the 15 month mark from the time you make the reservation. I think this is the same as what you said, just worded differently.

 

[m61376]

Really any remaining inventory is released at the 12 month mark. There may be more than 50% still available at this time.

The first week in the reservation has to be at the 13 month mark for that week from when you are booking it. If someone is booking 8 consecutive weeks then that last week is actually booked closer to the 15 month mark from the time you make the reservation. I think this is the same as what you said, just worded differently.

Haha- I think this is a case of "is the glass half full or half empty?" I guess your wording is probably what Marriott's intent is and, yes, we are talking about the same thing. The brain doesn't always work so well early in the morning

 

[NJMOM2]

If someone books multiple consecutive weeks at the 13 month mark at the same resort, does that decrease the 50% inventory of the second week’s availability for reservation at the 13 month mark? If half the owners who reserved the July 4th week also reserved the following week at a given resort, does that mean if you want the second and third week after the July 4th week that only 25% of weeks for the week after July 4th are available at the 13 month mark? This would keep 50% of the weeks available for reservations at the 12 month mark. Who loses the inventory the 13 month people or the 12 month people?

 

[m61376]

If someone books multiple consecutive weeks at the 13 month mark at the same resort, does that decrease the 50% inventory of the second week’s availability for reservation at the 13 month mark? If half the owners who reserved the July 4th week also reserved the following week at a given resort, does that mean if you want the second and third week after the July 4th week that only 25% of weeks for the week after July 4th are available at the 13 month mark? This would keep 50% of the weeks available for reservations at the 12 month mark. Who loses the inventory the 13 month people or the 12 month people?

Well, no one "loses," but I guess from your perspective it is the 13 month people. Half of the inventory is saved to be released at the 12 month mark, so that at exactly 12 months, at least 50% of the weeks for any given date are available (the 50% saved + any leftovers from the weeks released at 13 months). Thus, as the number of multiple week owners increase, those owning and stringing together 3 , 4, etc. weeks and vying for the same weeks as a 2 week owner have advantage over the 2 week owner.

Once 12 months comes along, then single week and multiple week owners, regardless of how many weeks owned, are all on a level playing field again. Thus, although it has been suggested that once there are more multiple week than single week owners the advantage shifts back to the single week owners, that really isn't true, because multiple week owners get two bites at the apple, so to speak (at 13 months and then again at 12 months), while single week owners can only reserve at the 12 month mark.

 

[Dave M]

Here is some example wording from the Grand Chateau documents:

Owners who own more than one Vacation Ownership Interest may reserve concurrent Use Periods, meaning two or more Villas during the same Use Period, or consecutive Use Periods, meaning one or more Villas for two or more Use Periods in a row, thirteen months in advance of the first requested Use Week for the first Use Period reserved. ... However, no more than fifty percent (50%) of available non-Developer inventory for each Use Period can be reserved more than one year in advance in this manner.

That means, as discussed above, that a minimum of 50% of the weeks will be available for those who call 12 months in advance.

I have documents for four other resorts that have similar wording.

 

[ldanna]

Quoting Dave M : "...no more than fifty percent (50%) of available non-Developer inventory ...", when does Marriott reserve the weeks it has on inventory? Do we compete with Marriott when reserve a week?

Let me explain that: if MGV has 900 units or 900 weeks number 1 available and Marriott still has 300 weeks number 1, only 50% of the non-Developer inventory will be available, which means 300 weeks for the 13 months and 300 weeks for the 12 months, and not 450 weeks for each.

Is that right?

 

[Dave M]

Quoting Dave M : "...no more than fifty percent (50%) of available non-Developer inventory ...", when does Marriott reserve the weeks it has on inventory? Do we compete with Marriott when reserve a week?

The same text that I quoted has language that prohibits Marriott from reserving its own weeks more than 12 months in advance.

If a resort has 900 units for week #1 and Marriott owns 300 of those weeks, only 600 weeks are available to owners (up to 300 at 13 months), unless Marriott chooses to make some of its weeks available.

Bottom line: Since Marriott owns certain weeks, it can do as it chooses with those weeks until they are sold. Marriott typically chooses to offer many of those weeks for rent, uses some for low-cost stays for prospective purchasers and sells some to II for use as Getaways. That's as it should be. Marriott owns them. They get to use them.

 

[Cathyb]

Guess we single week owners can say good-bye forever to getting a July or August week unless Marriott puts in some stipulations like one in four years type stuff. (Are you listening Marriott?)

 

[Cathyb]

jme: OK, the multi-week owner missed at 13 months and now it is approaching 12 month. Do the multi owners have priority status over the single week owner to get a week? Or are they equal in value at that time?

 

[Dave M]

Guess we single week owners can say good-bye forever to getting a July or August week unless Marriott puts in some stipulations like one in four years type stuff. (Are you listening Marriott?)

...and...

OK, the multi-week owner missed at 13 months and now it is approaching 12 month. Do the multi owners have priority status over the single week owner to get a week? Or are they equal in value at that time?

I think you may have missed the intent of what has been posted here, Cathy. Nothing has changed. Just as it has always been, at least 50% of weeks owned by owners will be available when owners call 12 months in advance. No one gets preference at 12 months. First come, first served. So if you have been reserving at 12 months in advance in the past, your chances of doing so again are as good as they have always been.

 

[Cathyb]

davem: I guess what I meant was that Marriott multiweek-owners are getting smarter and booking the weeks before July to get a top July week and string them; say a mid-month non-desirable June week with 3 additional weeks getting ahead of pwners of just two weeks.

Anyway, I am giving up on summer weeks and will stay there in Sep/Oct. We just live 40 miles south and the weather is pretty nice then.

 

[jme]

jme: OK, the multi-week owner missed at 13 months and now it is approaching 12 month. Do the multi owners have priority status over the single week owner to get a week? Or are they equal in value at that time?

at 9 am on the 12-mo day, it's a FREE-FOR-ALL, with anyone calling (or booking online) having the same chance. At that point, they simply release all remaining inventory to the first-come, first-served callers. They have no way of holding weeks for "single-week owners".

My suggestion remains the same, if you call at 9 am you have a chance, or if you book online at 9 am, you may have a better chance. Callers at that time may not get thru, and even a short conversation with a representative will delay the booking a minute or two, and voila, they're gone.... at 12-mo day, book online! if still denied, call again every day thereafter. You may get lucky......it's happened to me....

With this type of reservation system (which happens to be the most fair, imho), it's simply being in the right place at the right time. Again, as I've said before, it's all platinum owners calling for the very few "best" platinum weeks. There are lots of platinum weeks, but only a few "best" platinum weeks. There are a lot of tomatoes, but everybody wants the red spotless ones....jme

 

[Ireland'sCall]

Wondering ...would calling Marriott Europe (in Cork ) give you a headstart in time ( 9am here is 4am in New York)

 

[GregT]

This is an interesting post -- there used to be a concern that Marriott might find a way to restrict the 13 month booking window only to weeks that were purchased directly from them, and restrict resale purchases to either the 12 month (or a shorter) period.

Have we learned anything through all of this that makes us think it would be difficult to put that change in place? If it's not in the deed, I would think they could change that?

I'm thinking of the Napili 2BR's that they are selling now -- it seems the only reason to buy it direct from them (since these would likely never be traded for MRPs) would be for a fear that a resale Napili might someday not be eligible for the 13 month booking window.

Any thoughts on Marriott's ability to restrict the 13 month booking to just direct purchases?

Thanks!

 

[taffy19]

This is an interesting post -- there used to be a concern that Marriott might find a way to restrict the 13 month booking window only to weeks that were purchased directly from them, and restrict resale purchases to either the 12 month (or a shorter) period.

Have we learned anything through all of this that makes us think it would be difficult to put that change in place? If it's not in the deed, I would think they could change that?

I'm thinking of the Napili 2BR's that they are selling now -- it seems the only reason to buy it direct from them (since these would likely never be traded for MRPs) would be for a fear that a resale Napili might someday not be eligible for the 13 month booking window.

Any thoughts on Marriott's ability to restrict the 13 month booking to just direct purchases?

Thanks!

I believe they can but only for ALL OWNERS because there is a sentence in the contract that they can, from time to time, change the reservation system. They did with us many years ago and there wasn't even a mention of the 13 months reservation window in the contract. It wasn't introduced yet.

I am still looking for my old contract because I know that we didn't throw it out but I had taken it out of the Marriott folder once before when we discussed this topic and I had promised it to Chris, when we would meet but we never met. When I find the contract, I will post the clauses about the resort we owned.

Aren't there any other TUGgers here who still have a copy of the original MDS-I contract or any other resort from the time before the change took place?

 

[SueDonJ]

... Any thoughts on Marriott's ability to restrict the 13 month booking to just direct purchases?

Uh oh, this is a can of worms that may explode so badly that the bait store will need to be closed for a week for haz-mat cleanup!

My thought is (and I'm applying this to everything, not just reservation policies) that Marriott is free to try to make whatever changes to the programs that it wants to make, so long as there is language somewhere in the contract documents that protects its right to make such changes. Everywhere in the documents you can find "... as amended from time to time ..." bombs that would possibly protect Marriott if such changes were to be contested in a court setting.

(Because this is always added to these discussions - of course I don't think the specific unit type / season / resort that is purchased can be amended by Marriott. Ever.)

Does this mean that Marriott will definitely make changes to any part of the program? Nope. Does this mean that I want them to make certain changes? Nope. Does this mean that I will be grateful for any changes they make that are legally enforceable that give me, as a direct purchaser, an advantage? You bet I'll be grateful. So would you!

 

[taffy19]

...and...I think you may have missed the intent of what has been posted here, Cathy. Nothing has changed. Just as it has always been, at least 50% of weeks owned by owners will be available when owners call 12 months in advance. No one gets preference at 12 months. First come, first served. So if you have been reserving at 12 months in advance in the past, your chances of doing so again are as good as they have always been.

I still believe that more multiple week owners are competing now for the very best weeks 13 months out or even earlier. Everyone will get their week in their season but the best weeks are longtime gone. I vote for a "fixed week" instead which you can change too by making an exchange.

It is a lot less frustration!

 

[SueDonJ]

Wondering ...would calling Marriott Europe (in Cork ) give you a headstart in time ( 9am here is 4am in New York)

I don't think so because the computers are set to update the inventory at exactly 9amEST. Everyone has to figure their own time difference - folks on the west coast have to call at 6AM their time, you have to call at 2PM your time. ( I think. Time differences give me a headache. )

 

[SueDonJ]

I still believe that more multiple week owners are competing now for the very best weeks 13 months out or even earlier. Everyone will get their week in their season but the best weeks are longtime gone. I vote for a "fixed week" instead which you can change too by making an exchange.

It is a lot less frustration!

I'd love it if I could convert my two SW float weeks to fixed gold/platinum weeks straddling the Memorial Day holiday, because even as a multi-week owner I haven't had good luck with getting those at the 13-month mark.

You may be right that there are more multi-week owners now so they face greater competition at the 13-month mark from each other, but still 50% of the "best weeks" inventory is available to everyone at the 12-month mark. At that point no individual week can be "longtime gone."

 

[thinze3]

All I can say is, Marriott really screwed this resort up as far as seasons go. Even BeachPlace, that has platinum season for both winter and summer, doesn't have this problem.

 

[taffy19]

I'd love it if I could convert my two SW float weeks to fixed gold/platinum weeks straddling the Memorial Day holiday, because even as a multi-week owner I haven't had good luck with getting those at the 13-month mark.

You may be right that there are more multi-week owners now so they face greater competition at the 13-month mark from each other, but still 50% of the "best weeks" inventory is available to everyone at the 12-month mark. At that point no individual week can be "longtime gone."

Except for 50% the way it used to be in the old days. One week owners had inventory of 100% before the change! We didn't like it so we got rid of the frustration and are very happy now. Of course, it wasn't a smart decision at our age but that is another story.

 

[SueDonJ]

... You may be right that there are more multi-week owners now so they face greater competition at the 13-month mark from each other, but still 50% of the "best weeks" inventory is available to everyone at the 12-month mark. At that point no individual week can be "longtime gone."

Except for 50% the way it used to be in the old days. One week owners had inventory of 100% before the change! ...

I think I want to change the wording here a bit, it's bugging me. So ...

"At that point (12-month mark), there is no way that all of any specific unit for an individual calendar week can be "longtime gone."

Ugh, now I'm driving myself batty but that says it better. Maybe.

And of course it makes no difference to what you're saying, that your available inventory was reduced by up to 50% when the 12/13 month reservation policy was implemented "in the old days."

 

[ciscogizmo1]

Called at the stroke of 9am EST

Actually, I think that is too late. Here's how I do it and I've never had issues. I start dialing the number around 8:55 am EST and keep hitting re-dial until the line picks up. I also log-on to my computer and hit refresh until the week is available. Lately, I've noticed the online part is a heck a lot faster but you can only do that for 12 month reservations. However, since online reservations have been available I've discovered at the resorts I own at they never book up. Waiohai has availability for every week next year up to this week. Now, not all check-in dates are available but there is at least one day available. So, I think, if you really want that July week and then, at 12 months you are going to have to have multiple phone lines going and the computer to try and snag a week.

I do the same with camping spots. It is the same game every where. I even discovered how unfair the game is at reserving Yosemite weeks. At least with Marriott, there are rules.

So, my question now is that can a fixed week owner reserve multiple weeks? From your post it sounds like all of July has been reserved. So, do fixed week owners get to start reserving a week earlier. Does that make sense? Because if that is the case, I don't think that is fair. I don't think Fixed week owners should be allowed to reserve multiple weeks.