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You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

davidvel said:
I know you were not replying to me, but admittedly I watched only about 2 minutes of the 35+ minute video. In that time I saw the car cut-off a cement truck and 2 other vehicles, failing to yield to them on an unprotected left turn, also blocking the intersection. 3 violations of the vehicle code in 1 turn. That was very similar to what I experienced in the drive I recently took, so maybe the same software version.
Click to expand...
Can you point out at what point in the video you observed this specific behavior? It's been a couple months since I watched this specific content when it was first released, but one of the reasons I subscribe to BlackTesla is that he provides a fair and pretty thorough review of FSD behavior using various challenging routes and scenarios, which is a good test of the FSD stack over time. He has several routes, like me, where he uses the same exact route to test specific edge cases where FSD has been known to inconsistently handle said scenarios. I skimmed the video and did not spy a cement truck item, but I likely just missed it since I have no specific point of reference.

Big picture though, we have gone from a FSD system that simply could not navigate any major urban area, to a system that by and large does so in a safe and reliable manner, and most of the scenarios that remain are edge cases for things like construction, road closures, and other edge cases that require more NN video content and training. We're now basically at a point where FSD handles 95% of driving without issue, and the remaining 5% of the edge cases are the focus area. IMHO, that's pretty impressive progress within a three-year time span, and this is the worst it will ever be, it's only getting significantly better over time with the super-cluster NN training from Dojo and Cortex.
 
Ralph Sir Edward said:
They will worry about immediate availability. Rush hours will not go away because of robotaxis. They are inherent with workflow timings. I find it unlikely that there will be enough robotaxis to handle peak demand - too many would be idle (sunk cost, no revenue) during that majority of non-peak times. Congestion pricing? You could say that owning would be the best answer. . .
Click to expand...

With V2I and V2V comms roughly 50% of congestion will be resolved. That is the 50% that is caused by humans driving and lack of consistency, errors and bad decisions, including accidents. Granted, this is a ways out - but that’s the goal. Add to that roughly 25% carpooling to like destinations and all of a sudden that congestion disappears. This has all been analyzed extensively via many studies and subsequently via AI and solutions have been played out in detail already. The solutions are mostly complete and in the process of being built out and implemented, it’s just most people aren’t paying attention, and will therefore miss out on a ton of wealth creation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Emmjay said:
Click to expand...
This case is already on appeal. It's worth noting that, at least to date, Tesla has a near perfect track record of winning these cases on appeal, given the simple fact is that it is an L2 ADAS system where it clearly states that the driver has to pay attention, and specifically in this case, the driver freely admitted to dropping his cellphone and taking his eyes off the road to search for his cellphone. The driver also freely admitted that he understood that what was termed Autopilot back then (this case stems from 2019), was clearly an L2 ADAS system and that he understood the use of it required constant driver monitoring. This is why these cases are all won on appeal - the facts are ignored - and this is why we have an appeals process.
 
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HitchHiker71 said:
This case is already on appeal. It's worth noting that, at least to date, Tesla has a near perfect track record of winning these cases on appeal, given the simple fact is that it is an L2 ADAS system where it clearly states that the driver has to pay attention, and specifically in this case, the driver freely admitted to dropping his cellphone and taking his eyes off the road to search for his cellphone. The plaintiff also freely admitted that he understood that what was termed Autopilot back then (this case stems from 2019), was clearly an L2 ADAS system and that he understood the use of it required constant driver monitoring. This is why these cases are all won on appeal - the facts are ignored - and this is why we have an appeals process.
Click to expand...
The plaintiff was not the driver, they were a pedestrian and parent of a deceased pedestrian that the driver/car hit and injured/killed. Undoubtedly the plaintiffs knew nothing of how the Tesla worked.
 
HitchHiker71 said:
Can you point out at what point in the video you observed this specific behavior? It's been a couple months since I watched this specific content when it was first released, but one of the reasons I subscribe to BlackTesla is that he provides a fair and pretty thorough review of FSD behavior using various challenging routes and scenarios, which is a good test of the FSD stack over time. He has several routes, like me, where he uses the same exact route to test specific edge cases where FSD has been known to inconsistently handle said scenarios. I skimmed the video and did not spy a cement truck item, but I likely just missed it since I have no specific point of reference.

Big picture though, we have gone from a FSD system that simply could not navigate any major urban area, to a system that by and large does so in a safe and reliable manner, and most of the scenarios that remain are edge cases for things like construction, road closures, and other edge cases that require more NN video content and training. We're now basically at a point where FSD handles 95% of driving without issue, and the remaining 5% of the edge cases are the focus area. IMHO, that's pretty impressive progress within a three-year time span, and this is the worst it will ever be, it's only getting significantly better over time with the super-cluster NN training from Dojo and Cortex.
Click to expand...
It was near the end. I saw the cement truck when scanning through the preview, which caught my eye.
 
davidvel said:
The plaintiff was not the driver, they were a pedestrian and parent of a deceased pedestrian that the driver/car hit and injured/killed. Undoubtedly the plaintiffs knew nothing of how the Tesla worked.
Click to expand...

Yes sorry I meant driver in both cases - post corrected. Agreed the plaintiffs in this case had no knowledge of the Tesla systems in use at the time, there’s no reasonable expectation for them to have this knowledge.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
youppi said:
Tesla shareholders sue Tesla and Elon Musk over undisclosed safety risk of Robotaxi and FSD

www.motortrend.com

Report: Tesla and Elon Musk Sued Over Self-Driving Claims

Testing allegedly revealed safety issues with the Robotaxi and other self-driving Tesla models that went undisclosed.
www.motortrend.com www.motortrend.com

Click to expand...

Typical class action lawsuit from a firm that does nothing but class action lawsuits - Pomlaw. It’s a spurious class action suit, as are the rest of the lawsuits from this grifter law firm. The only people that win anything in class action lawsuits are the lawyers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1952748020220805620


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
HitchHiker71 said:
The only people that win anything in class action lawsuits are the lawyers.
Click to expand...

This is true for the most part. The thing about Tesla is the volume of lawsuits.

Bill
 
ev_chasrg.jpg


https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/19/climate/us-electric-vehicle-chargers-china.html

China is dominating the electric vehicle market globally, accounting for more than 70 percent of global manufacturing in 2024, according to the International Energy Agency. Its E.V. makers have pulled ahead of U.S. car companies on both price and technology.

Case in point: the five-minute charger.

After traveling to China to test drive new fast-charging cars sold by BYD, Patrick George, the editor in chief of InsideEVs, said Chinese models were “pretty much a generation or two ahead of the rest of the world.”


BYD, which is now the world’s largest producer of electric vehicles, has developed a battery that has a peak charging capacity of 1,000 kilowatts, also known as a megawatt. This peak rate can add enough charge in five minutes to drive for about 250 miles. Most E.V.s on the market in the U.S. can charge at peak rates of 400 kilowatts or less.

“This was a big leap, almost a tripling of others in the industry,” said Ryan Fisher, head of charging infrastructure at BloombergNEF, a research firm.



ch1.jpg
 
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Brett said:
View attachment 114825

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/19/climate/us-electric-vehicle-chargers-china.html

China is dominating the electric vehicle market globally, accounting for more than 70 percent of global manufacturing in 2024, according to the International Energy Agency. Its E.V. makers have pulled ahead of U.S. car companies on both price and technology.

Case in point: the five-minute charger.

After traveling to China to test drive new fast-charging cars sold by BYD, Patrick George, the editor in chief of InsideEVs, said Chinese models were “pretty much a generation or two ahead of the rest of the world.”


BYD, which is now the world’s largest producer of electric vehicles, has developed a battery that has a peak charging capacity of 1,000 kilowatts, also known as a megawatt. This peak rate can add enough charge in five minutes to drive for about 250 miles. Most E.V.s on the market in the U.S. can charge at peak rates of 400 kilowatts or less.

“This was a big leap, almost a tripling of others in the industry,” said Ryan Fisher, head of charging infrastructure at BloombergNEF, a research firm.



View attachment 114826
Click to expand...
These are new 1000v superchargers and there's only a few in China at present, the vast majority of existing chargers in China, much like the US, aren't anywhere close to this capability. The reason the US hasn't rolled out this charging capability is because there are literally no BEVs sold in the US that are anywhere close to capable of this charging rate right now. BYD also hasn't proven the long-term viability of these batteries as yet, nor has Zeekr, which introduced their "golden" 800v battery last year with similar charge time claims, under ideal conditions. Kyle Connor from Out of Spec tested the Golden battery while over in China, that video is here:

Most US L3 chargers, even those that support 800v charging systems like the V4 Tesla Supercharging stations, can only charge at 350kw maximum at present, and while that's certainly an improvement over the 250kw 400v systems, we still have a ways to go to get Tesla V4 stalls and infrastructure rolled out that can support up to 1000v charging. There's only a handful of true V4 Tesla SC stations at present and those are currently only supporting 350kw rates, with plans to update to 500kw at some point, hopefully heading into next year. There are a growing number of V4 stalls installed at existing SC stations, but the actual transformers are still V3 infrastructure, and those take more effort to upgrade. The V4 platform can support up to 1000v (1000kw or megawatt) charging, however I haven't seen any substantive plans to roll this out any time soon. Considering Tesla literally only has one production model that even has an 800v architecture, the Cybertruck, that isn't selling well at all, I don't expect them to be in a hurry to roll out upgrades to the SC network any time soon. For my part, I really wish Tesla would have upgraded the M3/MY refreshes to 800v architectures, as doing so would have potentially cut the charging times by 30-50% compared to current charging times, again under ideal conditions with preconditioning. That however, continues to be my wish. I personally think this was a big miss on Tesla's part. Musk is laser focused on Robotaxi and autonomy, somewhat to the detriment of existing vehicle production even, which I'm not entirely sure is a wise decision especially in the short term. I'm a huge fan of FSD becoming unsupervised, along with robotaxi's primarily for urban centers, but the concept of displacing personally owned vehicles isn't going to happen overnight, even if it's cheaper to use a robotaxi from a monetary standpoint, people likely aren't going to be willing to give up freedom of ownership if they can still afford or want to afford a personally owned automobile. Perhaps 20 years out we might see a mass migration to autonomous vehicles and away from personally owned automobiles, but not in the next few years, therefore continued focus on producing better BEVs for personal ownership would be prudent IMHO.
 
Last edited:
It won't matter how much electricity these new charging stations are designed to provide in the US
Unless it is next door to one of the new server farms,
There will be no electrical infrastructure available to provide the power
The increase in demand for electricity is skyrocketing
The ability to get new power stations online even with elimination of environmental reviews, permitting, etc., etc
Is still going to take time
New power lines are hindered by the shortage of cable, towers, transformers
The demand at the PJM interconnect is the "canary in the coal mine" (no pun intended)
The story is beyond the scope of this thread
But interested individuals can search for "PJM interconnect demand" to see the problems
it is a good time to be involved in electrical generation at any level
Plenty of jobs coming up
 
Brett said:
View attachment 114825

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/19/climate/us-electric-vehicle-chargers-china.html

China is dominating the electric vehicle market globally, accounting for more than 70 percent of global manufacturing in 2024, according to the International Energy Agency. Its E.V. makers have pulled ahead of U.S. car companies on both price and technology.

Case in point: the five-minute charger.

After traveling to China to test drive new fast-charging cars sold by BYD, Patrick George, the editor in chief of InsideEVs, said Chinese models were “pretty much a generation or two ahead of the rest of the world.”


BYD, which is now the world’s largest producer of electric vehicles, has developed a battery that has a peak charging capacity of 1,000 kilowatts, also known as a megawatt. This peak rate can add enough charge in five minutes to drive for about 250 miles. Most E.V.s on the market in the U.S. can charge at peak rates of 400 kilowatts or less.

“This was a big leap, almost a tripling of others in the industry,” said Ryan Fisher, head of charging infrastructure at BloombergNEF, a research firm.



View attachment 114826
Click to expand...

You know why. In case you don't, it's because in the USA , to build anything like a super charger station, requires permitting and zoning, probably similar to a gas station.

Bill
 
emeryjre said:
It won't matter how much electricity these new charging stations are designed to provide in the US
Unless it is next door to one of the new server farms,
There will be no electrical infrastructure available to provide the power
The increase in demand for electricity is skyrocketing
The ability to get new power stations online even with elimination of environmental reviews, permitting, etc., etc
Is still going to take time
New power lines are hindered by the shortage of cable, towers, transformers
The demand at the PJM interconnect is the "canary in the coal mine" (no pun intended)
The story is beyond the scope of this thread
But interested individuals can search for "PJM interconnect demand" to see the problems
it is a good time to be involved in electrical generation at any level
Plenty of jobs coming up
Click to expand...
easyrider said:
You know why. In case you don't, it's because in the USA , to build anything like a super charger station, requires permitting and zoning, probably similar to a gas station.

Bill
Click to expand...


yes, I know why but in case you don't ..
(probably more than zoning and permitting ;) )

.

oil.jpg


Oil Executives were promised a Windfall


https://blog.ucs.org/laura-peterson...will-cost-public-80-billion-over-next-decade/
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/30/...dustry-tax-breaks.html?searchResultPosition=5
 
Brett said:
yes, I know why but in case you don't ..
(probably more than zoning and permitting ;) )

.

View attachment 114849

Oil Executives were promised a Windfall


https://blog.ucs.org/laura-peterson...will-cost-public-80-billion-over-next-decade/
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/30/...dustry-tax-breaks.html?searchResultPosition=5
Click to expand...

It's a good idea to support an industry, that produces a product, that is used in every industry, for almost everything manufactured and used today.

Bill
 
easyrider said:
It's a good idea to support an industry, that produces a product, that is used in every industry, for almost everything manufactured and used today.

Bill
Click to expand...

This is a political comment.
 
emeryjre said:
It won't matter how much electricity these new charging stations are designed to provide in the US
Unless it is next door to one of the new server farms,
There will be no electrical infrastructure available to provide the power
The increase in demand for electricity is skyrocketing
The ability to get new power stations online even with elimination of environmental reviews, permitting, etc., etc
Is still going to take time
New power lines are hindered by the shortage of cable, towers, transformers
The demand at the PJM interconnect is the "canary in the coal mine" (no pun intended)
The story is beyond the scope of this thread
But interested individuals can search for "PJM interconnect demand" to see the problems
it is a good time to be involved in electrical generation at any level
Plenty of jobs coming up
Click to expand...

Actually, the "clean energy" crowd is causing a shortfall in the availability of electricity by shutting down reliable and cheap coal and even gas and nuclear power plants to promote expensive and intermittent wind and solar. Ask Maryland or New Jersey. Or Spain or Portugal.
 
Carolinian said:
So more than doubling air pollution in the area of fast charging stations is now "clean energy". What language is that? Orwellian Newspeak?
Click to expand...
Did you read the article? The "doubled pollution" was just the dirt in the area being picked up by the charging station's cooling fans and blown around. In addition, the affected area was only a few meters from the charger, and a simple "fix" is to add air filters to the cooling fans. As far as harmful pollution to the environment goes, I find it hard to believe that it would be more than what is released at a typical gas station.

I know you are violently against EVs and only bring up negative articles and talking points here, but this one seems like a big "nothing sandwich". :rolleyes:

Kurt
 
Carolinian said:
I cannot see any way that easyrider's comment can be portrayed that way any more than this whole thread can be.
Click to expand...

Or that every single post you make is anti-EV, but that’s permitted here. Political comments are not.
 
Carolinian said:
Actually, the "clean energy" crowd is causing a shortfall in the availability of electricity by shutting down reliable and cheap coal and even gas and nuclear power plants to promote expensive and intermittent wind and solar. Ask Maryland or New Jersey. Or Spain or Portugal.
Click to expand...
The clean energy crowd is doing no such thing
The nuclear plants that have been shut down have reached the end of their projected useful life
The coal plants that were shut down were no longer economical to operate
All of these plants have steam generators, steam turbines, generators that wear out
Replacing these ancillary parts is expensive and time consuming
I realize that actually examining facts about the cost of energy production takes time and energy
The current mantra to bring new energy online is micro nuclear reactors, Small Modular nuclear reactors, geothermal
All are great ideas
But all unproven to date
Bringing the old nuclear plants back online is a great idea
But the worn-out components need to be replaced
Read the story about the San Onofre Nuclear Plant in Southern California to see how that went
Changed out a worn-out steam generator at the cost of millions of dollars
The new one leaked
While the nuclear reactors had plenty of usable years left
The ancillary component failed
 
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