At what point would you stop payment?

[Fredflintstone]

Every year the maintenance fees climb. Sometimes a bit and sometimes a lot.

At what point would you refuse to pay the maintenance fee bill if ever?

If one year you get a special assessment for 5 k?

Your fees went from 2500 for the week to 3k or more?

Or would you pay whatever the invoice says and try to rid yourself of it? If you can’t get rid of it, you would pay whatever they say.

Do you have a line in the sand when it comes to what resorts can charge you? Or, a contract was signed and you are bound to pay any assessment amount declared as per the contract?

Lastly, do you think that resorts know the threshold or the maximum maintenance fee they can receive without outright owner revolt so you will never be faced with this.





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[DrQ]

Been there, done that. We have 2 week at Inverness by the Sea in Galveston. After Ike, we were hit with a SA of $1,250/wk. The only mitigating factor was that if we payed early, we received 2 bonus weeks per unit if we paid by a certain date.

It is not high class, but a great location.

The anual MF are ~$700/week.

 

[am1]

Depends on rental rates. Management may raise fees in the hopes that owners abandon their weeks.

 

[DrQ]

The repairs were needed. It was a structural issue. That is why I would never own (other than a timeshare) on the coast.

The salt air really tears everything up.

 

[PigsDad]

In the years since I have owned timeshares, I believe my MFs have been rising at a lower rate than hotel prices, so I really don't have any complaints. Those that complain that MFs only go up obviously don't have a clue as to what they are paying for. You have to look at the price of equivalent accommodations to make any kind of judgement as to whether or not you can still get value out of having your timeshare. Questions like these presented here are, frankly, total nonsense without some context around them. JMO

Kurt

 

[Fredflintstone]

In the years since I have owned timeshares, I believe my MFs have been rising at a lower rate than hotel prices, so I really don't have any complaints. Those that complain that MFs only go up obviously don't have a clue as to what they are paying for. You have to look at the price of equivalent accommodations to make any kind of judgement as to whether or not you can still get value out of having your timeshare. Questions like these presented here are, frankly, total nonsense without some context around them. JMO

Kurt

Actually, I think questions like this are important on many fronts.

1. If you are truly an Owner in which you bought 1\52 of the pie, your maintenance fees should be substantially lower than a hotel room. Albeit many people bought resale but someone at some point paid 20, 30, 40, 50 k plus for a week. Most of the time 52 times the cost means the condo sold for 4 times real estate market. This upfront cost entitled you to lifetime rates that are lower. In theory, you are paying upkeep but in reality I think you are paying a reduced rate.
2. I personally know of one resort who checks places like TUG and redweek and others to get a pulse on what the market will bear for maintenance fees. So, bringing this up keeps them thinking twice about how much to raise fees. If they see a thread grumbling, they are mindful. From my resort contact, HOAs take notice too.

I think there is a line in the sand and looking at what that line is does get noticed by the right party making decisions and that comes from a CEO of a development resort company.

After all, every owner in my view should question what they are charged every year. I don’t believe any owner has given a blank check where the HOA fills in the number contrary to what the contract says.


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[Panina]

Actually, I think questions like this are important on many fronts.

1. If you are truly an Owner in which you bought 1\52 of the pie, your maintenance fees should be substantially lower than a hotel room. Albeit many people bought resale but someone at some point paid 20, 30, 40, 50 k plus for a week. Most of the time 52 times the cost means the condo sold for 4 times real estate market. This upfront cost entitled you to lifetime rates that are lower. In theory, you are paying upkeep but in reality I think you are paying a reduced rate.
2. I personally know of one resort who checks places like TUG and redweek and others to get a pulse on what the market will bear for maintenance fees. So, bringing this up keeps them thinking twice about how much to raise fees. If they see a thread grumbling, they are mindful. From my resort contact, HOAs take notice too.

I think there is a line in the sand and looking at what that line is does get noticed by the right party making decisions and that comes from a CEO of a development resort company.

After all, every owner in my view should question what they are charged every year. I don’t believe any owner has given a blank check where the HOA fills in the number contrary to what the contract says.


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Comparing the cost to maintain a hotel to a timeshare condo is like comparing apples to orange, they are different. Sure you can stay in a low end hotel room on the cheap and if you think that has value then timesharing is not for you. I agree with everything @PigsDad said. Also, Higher mf timeshares usually have higher end amenities and it costs money to maintain the high standard.

I buy timeshares and enjoy them for what value they give me in size and amenities. I own a simple lovely timeshare that is on the beach with a mf under $500. I also own a timeshare New Years week on the beach, much higher end with a mf of $1400 which is my highest mf. With your mindset you would say the $1400 mf should be the same as the $500 one. Wrong. There are so many factors that make up mfs. My $1400 includes a high percentage for reserve for updates and replacements.

Timesharing is not about nickel and diming. It’s about enjoying accommodations larger then a small hotel room, and amenities and extras most timeshares bring to the vacation experience. If you have to keep thinking of all the negatives associated with timesharing and how you are being charged too much, you should not buy again, not even hgvc as each year the mfs will go up.

 

[b2bailey]

Many years ago I owned a one bedroom unit at a small property in Palm Springs, Azure Sky. I would say mismanagement led to increasing annual fees. It reached the point where the amount billed was more than fees for 2 bedroom Marriott Newport Coast. Thats when we said: "We quit." Must have been echoed by many because the property closed a few years later. Read in the paper that it sold. Seems to be operating now as low rent apts.

 

[Carol C]

I was shocked to see maint fees at Manhattan Club are over $3K. For a one br, two ba unit. I stayed there a few times and it is nice...but not THAT nice. And yes I know NYC is expensive blah blah blah. Ah the good old days, when savvy TUGgers could exchange in using a grass shack!

 

[WinniWoman]

I was shocked to see maint fees at Manhattan Club are over $3K. For a one br, two ba unit. I stayed there a few times and it is nice...but not THAT nice. And yes I know NYC is expensive blah blah blah. Ah the good old days, when savvy TUGgers could exchange in using a grass shack!

I wouldn't pay even just $100 for a week to stay in Manhattan.

 

[WinniWoman]

For me it would be three things.

#1 would be that we simply could no longer afford to pay it no matter what the amount was- low or high.

#2 Would be that the resort was going down hill, or made it difficult to enjoy our time there, ex: management issues.

#3 We just were no longer physically able to use it and could not get rid of it in the marketplace or through the resort itself.

 

[BigRedOne]

My resort has just been bought out and the new company is trying to get everyone to trade their week for their new resort or face paying (threatening) a $7000 to $8000 special assessment to make repairs. If they follow through on their threat, I will not pay it and give them my week back as I suspect so will everyone else. Most of the owners are in their 60’s, 70’s and 80’s and I don’t think anyone that is retired or about to retire (me) is going to be willing to pay this. Haven’t got my maintenance fee bill yet so we’ll see.

Anyone know of other options if everyone would stick together?

 

[bbodb1]

I wouldn't pay even just $100 for a week to stay in Manhattan.

Not even if Manhattan paid me would I want to go there..... To each their own!

 

[bbodb1]

Fred,

Your point in the OP is a good one, but along that line of thinking you just made me realize that considering the places we actually own how long it has been since we have actually seen or stayed at them.....I point that out because in our case, we would lack the interaction required to make such a judgement call. Hopefully, we never have to deal with such a decision but we really should be prepared.

 

[Fredflintstone]

Fred,

Your point in the OP is a good one, but along that line of thinking you just made me realize that considering the places we actually own how long it has been since we have actually seen or stayed at them.....I point that out because in our case, we would lack the interaction required to make such a judgement call. Hopefully, we never have to deal with such a decision but we really should be prepared.

Yes, I hope no one is faced with this reality. Panina, you are right in that I am thinking hard on whether to buy or not. I am assuming my best bet is HGVC but the uncontrolled factors like MFs make me think twice. I suppose when I buy anything I think about future advantages and ramifications and that’s probably why I haven’t bought again.

To me, timeshares are kind of like a house of cards. If the MFs get out of hand, the default rate can spiral causing the owners left to make hard decisions. Saying that, resorts are always under pressure to upgrade often ensuring a good use rate and paying owners. However, if the cost to upgrade goes through the roof, owners are pinned between the contract and their pocketbooks.

So far, from what research I have done, one is best to own in consumer friendly states like California, Florida or South Carolina where foreclosure laws are non judicial, anti deficiency. This way, if costs go beyond a persons pocketbook, they at least have leverage to rid themselves of the problem easier without major ramifications. On the resort side where laws are shifted to consumers, they are more mindful of what they can and cannot do.









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[AllanThompson]

Every year the maintenance fees climb. Sometimes a bit and sometimes a lot.

At what point would you refuse to pay the maintenance fee bill if ever?

If one year you get a special assessment for 5 k?

Your fees went from 2500 for the week to 3k or more?

Or would you pay whatever the invoice says and try to rid yourself of it? If you can’t get rid of it, you would pay whatever they say.

Do you have a line in the sand when it comes to what resorts can charge you? Or, a contract was signed and you are bound to pay any assessment amount declared as per the contract?

Lastly, do you think that resorts know the threshold or the maximum maintenance fee they can receive without outright owner revolt so you will never be faced with this.





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I have an interesting dilemma coming up. My timeshare is not fee simple. It is a leasehold. In 2025 the lease expires and the owners will have to vote to extend or not. (The whole thing also expires in 2045, but that is another matter, further down the road. I am 71 so will probably not be around for that occurrence. And my heirs are aware that they do not have to accept it as part of my inheritance.) But if they came up with a special assessment a year or two before the 2025 deadline, to me, it would not be money wells pent to put in at that point. Right now, any year I cannot use it, the place does attract at least enough rent to pay the MFs, but a special assessment would have me looking at options to bail. Does anyone have experience with similar situations?
BTW my timeshare has a timeshare side and a hotel side. What is the connection like between the two? My week is in August in Banff and area hotels are generally full then, so I would think the hotel side would be well off to have my unit back for extra inventory in August. Can I approach them with an offer to take it back?

 

[Fredflintstone]

From what I know, BC and Alberta have draconian laws when it comes to timeshares.

For comparison, review the recent court cases of Sunchaser Resorts (Northwynd) versus their owners. Owners took the company to court regarding an outrageous special assessment. The owners lost on all fronts and are being charged between 65 to 125 k from the resort. This has caused many financial hardship.

However, saying that, it doesn’t hurt to see if the resort will take your right to use back. Yes, there have been cases where a few years before the RTU ends, owners are slapped with a huge special assessment so I can see why you would be concerned.


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[Karen G]

Most of the time 52 times the cost means the condo sold for 4 times real estate market. This upfront cost entitled you to lifetime rates that are lower. In theory, you are paying upkeep but in reality I think you are paying a reduced rate.

I don't believe paying the sometimes exorbitant costs for one week of timeshare when buying from the developer entitles the buyer to anything. A lot of the initial cost goes to the marketing costs of paying the sales people, paying for "gifts" to entice people to sit through a sales presentation, and all the other costs associated with selling the timeshares. Most of the time owners have no real say in how the maintenance fees are spent or how fast they go up because the developer controls things.

 

[Fredflintstone]

I don't believe paying the sometimes exorbitant costs for one week of timeshare when buying from the developer entitles the buyer to anything. A lot of the initial cost goes to the marketing costs of paying the sales people, paying for "gifts" to entice people to sit through a sales presentation, and all the other costs associated with selling the timeshares. Most of the time owners have no real say in how the maintenance fees are spent or how fast they go up because the developer controls things.

All good points well taken. I guess it is foolish of me to think that since someone paid 20 k plus they are entitled to reduced rates. Hence, having a timeshare is risky business where the only right you have is to continue to pay whatever they invoice.




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[BocaBoy]

In the years since I have owned timeshares, I believe my MFs have been rising at a lower rate than hotel prices, so I really don't have any complaints. Those that complain that MFs only go up obviously don't have a clue as to what they are paying for. You have to look at the price of equivalent accommodations to make any kind of judgement as to whether or not you can still get value out of having your timeshare. Questions like these presented here are, frankly, total nonsense without some context around them. JMO

I disagree. If you compare hotel rates from 2008 (just before the Great Recession) to hotel rates today, it there is no question that hotel rates have risen MUCH more slowly that timeshare maintenance fees, at least for Marriott timeshares. When hotel rates were actually going down 8-10 years ago, maintenance fee increases did not slow down and even accelerated in many cases.

 

[Oldtimer1029]

What I find especially galling is that I paid thousands of $ upfront to be an "owner" of an all access points contract, then maintenance fees increase @ substantially more than inflation. I now know, I can go to any one of several hotel sites and pay way less than I originally paid to rent a week at my resorts. The same resorts, the same rooms, etc. for rent to nonowners. Had I known this, I would have remained a nonowner. I can't sell it. Although, @ contract signing I was assured that they would buy it back if I ever wanted.

 

[klpca]

I guess that poor management would bother me enough to get rid of a week even if the fees were on the low side. Resort condition is more important to me than fees. I have sold/given away units that had maintenance issues that I thought were caused by penny-pinching. In my mind the cost to repair/replace items caused by deferred maintenance is greater than the cost of regular maintenance.

Fred, you seem pretty uncomfortable with some of the downsides of timesharing. No offense at all, but with rentals and Airbnb I don't see why you are considering a purchase at all. Maintenance fees will go up, as will exchange fees. Exchanges are always a crapshoot. Even owner reservations can be difficult. Getting rid of a unit can take awhile. Still, after all of that we still spend less than the cost of renting so I'm good with that. But that's me.

True story. We love our timeshares and travel everywhere using them. My good friend owns on Maui and in Las Vegas. She regularly loses use of her weeks - forgets to book, forgets to deposit, doesn't use an OGS and waits until the last minute to try to exchange, then can't find anything. We have opposite experiences. She should have never bought. It has been nothing but frustration for her. I've given her all kinds of tips, but planning ahead is not her forte. She can't figure out why we like it.

 

[WinniWoman]

But also- timeshare condos require a lot more maintenance than just hotel rooms.

I prefer to stay at a timeshare or condo type resort any day rather than a Home Away rental or just a hotel.

 

[Fredflintstone]

I disagree. If you compare hotel rates from 2008 (just before the Great Recession) to hotel rates today, it there is no question that hotel rates have risen MUCH more slowly that timeshare maintenance fees, at least for Marriott timeshares. When hotel rates were actually going down 8-10 years ago, maintenance fee increases did not slow down and even accelerated in many cases.[/

According to ARDA, MFs increase an average of 6 percent per year. I am not sure on hotel rates BUT I have found some awesome beach front condos in Hawaii on Airbnb for 100 to 150 a night. To be fair, they didn’t have the resort pools and amenities. But it is only 100 to 150 versus 300 a night plus.

At 6 percent a year compounded on average, there will come a time when owners will be concerned. Again, I understand people pay for the wonderful amenities but they are only willing to pay so much. That line of cost will vary by owner. I do notice many HOAs include a newsletter with their bills and many have warnings and threats aimed at delinquent owners. Almost a whip crack message. When I see that, I think HOAs are concerned about delinquency. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t need to include the warnings.


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[Fredflintstone]

I guess that poor management would bother me enough to get rid of a week even if the fees were on the low side. Resort condition is more important to me than fees. I have sold/given away units that had maintenance issues that I thought were caused by penny-pinching. In my mind the cost to repair/replace items caused by deferred maintenance is greater than the cost of regular maintenance.

Fred, you seem pretty uncomfortable with some of the downsides of timesharing. No offense at all, but with rentals and Airbnb I don't see why you are considering a purchase at all. Maintenance fees will go up, as will exchange fees. Exchanges are always a crapshoot. Even owner reservations can be difficult. Getting rid of a unit can take awhile. Still, after all of that we still spend less than the cost of renting so I'm good with that. But that's me.

True story. We love our timeshares and travel everywhere using them. My good friend owns on Maui and in Las Vegas. She regularly loses use of her weeks - forgets to book, forgets to deposit, doesn't use an OGS and waits until the last minute to try to exchange, then can't find anything. We have opposite experiences. She should have never bought. It has been nothing but frustration for her. I've given her all kinds of tips, but planning ahead is not her forte. She can't figure out why we like it.

Yes, I am concerned and yes I do sway towards non ownership. That said, I love renting from TUGGERS and find them a wonderful, engaging group. So, without timeshares, I probably wouldn’t have great conversations with nice people like you


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