• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

MgolferL

newbie
Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
48
Reaction score
93
Points
28
Resorts Owned
Fairmont Sunchaser Palm Springs Marriott
I want to circle back right to the beginning when Fairmont Vacation Villas/Properties filed for bankruptcy.

No one including MG has ever answered the following:

How can our timeshare contracts even be valid, when the company we signed with (Fairmont Vacation Villas/Properties) is Bankrupt and gone?

Yet by filing for bankruptcy (Fairmont Vacation Villas/Properties) I’m sure was able to avoid paying any bill's it owed to suppliers, contractors, maintenance people, etc. and should have made all timeshare contracts null and void as they are BANKRUPT.

Then the new owners (we know them as Kirk Wankel / Sunchaser/ Northwynd/ Northmont) come in, and I’m sure are able to dis-associate themselves from the now bankrupt Fairmont Vacation Villas/Properties and are also able to avoid all these same above mentioned people that were owed money by the now bankrupt Fairmont Vacation Villas/Properties.

Yet Kirk Wankel/ Sunchaser/ Northwynd/ Northmont is able to access the files of the bankrupt Fairmont Vacation Villas/Properties, with the names and contracts of all the people who bought with Fairmont Vacation Villas/Properties. (Is this not a breach of privacy?)

Then once the new owners have access to all the names and timeshare contracts that belonged to Fairmont Vacation Villas/Properties, the new owners claim them as their own, even though not a single person was approached and asked if they wanted to sign up with the NEW owners. (Is this legal?)

After the new owners (Kirk Wankel / Sunchaser/ Northwynd/ Northmont) self-proclaim these Bankrupt timeshare contracts as their own, they are able to magically modify and enforce these timeshare contracts with unjust improvement fees, criminal amounts of compounded 26.8% interest and try to collect from all the timeshare owners that were only involved with the bankrupt Fairmont Vacation Villas/Properties, all while avoiding to pay money owed by the bankrupt Fairmont Vacation Villas/Properties to its to suppliers, contractors, maintenance people, etc.???!!! (How is this legal???)

We have never been given the how and why Kirk Wankel / Sunchaser/ Northwynd/ Northmont were able to take over and if it was legal.

WE DID NOT SIGN TIMESHARE CONTRACTS WITH SUNCHASER/NORTHWYND/NORTHMONT!!! OUR TIMESHARE COMPANY FAIRMONT VACATION VILLAS/PROPERTIES WENT BANKRUPT!!!


Where were these most basic facts missed by the lawyers and the courts and allowed to escalate to this outright FRAUD???




Yes, ironic indeed. Where is the protection in that? Who has the money to access timeshares at the criminal price range of $20,000 to $100,000+ for maintenance, improvement and interest fees? This is FRAUD!

You are 100% correct the we DID NOT sign contracts with Sunchaser (+). When Fairmont went down, KW went on board in 2010 as VP & CFO. HE would have access to the files prior to Sunchaser taking it over as that would have been one of the tangible assets along with the land and buildings. In 2012 he became CEO.

ALL of this was not presented remotely well in the courts. In the test case it seems all that was argued was whether it was operational cost and/or capital cost....NOT whether contracts were ever signed and/or binding. We ALL should have been given a new contract and an option at the time of the new "owner" to which was not done, and their resistance to a Board of users to help direct the #NAFR.

MG should have been arguing on the validity of the contracts and that the contracts could not arbitrarily be lumped in together as there were many different contracts, so an infringement of many consumer protection clauses. He decided to put all the eggs into one basket (unfortunately the wrong one) to which was the start of where we are today. It was illegal on a lot of levels (including moral), but our council kept going down the wrong path.
 

LilMaggie

newbie
Joined
Jan 11, 2018
Messages
164
Reaction score
290
Points
73
Resorts Owned
I own Nothing!
IF we are going to pursue something like that, we better start the process now. I have to go thru the release in more detail, but think, once it's signed we are also releasing the lawyer and agreeing to a gag order against ALL parties.

We may have to go after him thru his insurance company....ALL lawyers have to carry it, just for this this reason... He gave BAD advice (do not pay) which cost us individually...... ... and most of us have emails to substantiate that. I think those complaints have to be done before paying and signing off though.

As well, spoke to someone who was familiar as to the start of this. It seems that young Mr. MG was extremely green and had never tried a major case before AKA... this was his first. The rest of the lawyers walked away because no one was playing nice in the sandbox and he had all sorts of "fresh out of school" ideas, but little to no practical experience... hence our dilemma and misguided legal advice.
https://www.lawsociety.bc.ca/compla...ek-compensation/claims-for-lawyer-negligence/
 

torqued

newbie
Joined
Jan 1, 2018
Messages
102
Reaction score
105
Points
53
Location
Virginia
Resorts Owned
Sunchaser
Would it help our case against MG if we all were citing the SAME specific reasons for bringing his name to the law society. In other words here are three or four reasons why we feel he was negligent in carrying out his duties as our attorney. Otherwise it may just look like a bunch of scattered complaints from people who lost a case? Comments or suggestions?
 

GypsyOne

newbie
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
197
Reaction score
149
Points
103
I hope this is the correct count, but from the court records it appears that nine different judges have heard arguments on the merits of this case in one form or another. On four different court cases, and three appeals. I could understand the point of judicial bias or incompetence if two or three judges had been involved. The key issue they all have agreed on is that you did not enter into a commercial lease - but that you entered into a timeshare plan.

At some point is the point at law not well settled?

The Honourable Madam Justice Kirkpatrick
The Honourable Madam Justice D. Smith
The Honourable Madam Justice Garson
The Honourable Madam Justice Loo
The Honourable Chief Justice Bauman
The Honourable Madam Justice D. Smith
The Honourable Mr. Justice Goepel
The Honourable Mr. Justice Branch
The Honourable Judge L.D. Young

Do you honestly believe so many judges in your court system are incompetent or on the take?

From the court:
In my view, there is absolutely no support for JEKE’s argument beyond the common fact that both types of relationship are governed by contract. However, unlike a time share, a commercial tenancy involves a one-on-one relationship between a landlord and a tenant that bears little resemblance to the contracts here which govern the collective nature of the interests held by the participants in a time share. The fundamental nature of a time share interest involves not only the creation of a contractual relationship between an owner and the developer, but also a relationship between all owners in the time share. This is evident in many ways.

I sure hope the nine judges are not incompetent or complicit, but the logic they followed in arriving at their decision is disturbing. Not because the TS Users (TSU) lost the case, but because the judges departed so far from the terms of the contracts/leases. Nine justices being in unanimous agreement does not strengthen the case, it weakens it. How is it possible that nine justices could review a mountain of evidence and not one find one point in favour of the TSU? Not one! It defies logic. Seems the decision had already been made in favour of the resort owners, and the duty of the justices was to dress it up in pretty sounding legalese.

I think it was Justice Loo who asked the rhetorical question, "if the timeshare owners don't pay, then who" - and inadvertently revealed her legal myopia.

You say a key issue they have agreed on is that you (we) did not enter into a commercial lease - but that we entered into a timeshare plan. Well so what? In other words, they say we do not have a lease we have a timeshare plan. The justices had to draw that distinction - it was vital to their flawed decision. The reason being that leases, lessors, and lessees have well established legal rights and responsibilities. Definition of a lease: "A contract by which one party (Lessor) conveys land, property, services, etc. to another (Lessee) for a specified time, usually in return for a periodic payment." Sounds to me like we have leases. But I know for sure I have a lease because my contract says it is a lease, and throughout the contract the resort owner is referred to as the Lessor and the TSU the Lessee. Here are some important characteristics of leases that can be found in any real estate law textbook or online: "The Lessor is bound to deliver the leased property to the Lessee in good condition." "The Lessee is not liable for loss or damage resulting from proper use." Clearly Northmont had a legal right to supply the Lessees with a property in good condition and it is their responsibility to maintain it in good condition. So what is the legal recourse if the Lessor breaches his responsibility to deliver and maintain the property in good condition: "In case the leased property is not delivered in a condition suitable for the purpose on which it is leased, the Lessee may terminate the contract." So at this point we can give credit to the nine justices for being competent because they knew the established rights and responsibilities of Lessors and Lessees was going to be problematic to their decision. So nine justices unanimously concluded that it was not really a lease in the usual sense of the word, it was a timeshare plan.

Now that the justices have rebranded the contract, they can proceed to run roughshod over its clauses, the most egregious being adding capital costs to the list of operating costs. Clause 9 lists the operating costs, but nowhere are capital costs to be found. An item as trivial as garbage disposal is included but capital costs for reconstruction of faulty buildings amounting to $40 million are not. How then do the justices conclude that we are responsible for reconstruction of faulty buildings? They simply say it is so: "I conclude that the plain reading of paragraph 9 is that all costs relating to the operation of the Resort, whether in the nature of capital costs or not, are to be borne by the owners. This applies even in the event of reconstruction of parts of the Resort as needed, whether from deferred maintenance issues or otherwise." Voila, the TSU are now stuck for maintaining the property in pristine condition - some forever and some for the remainder of their 40 year leases, unless they pay the ransom to get out.

Clause 13 in my lease, Default Of The Lessee In Any Payment, seems to be completely ignored by the justices in favour of Northmont's creative cash grab. But Clause 13 clearly states that if the Lessor takes back the timeshare, they pay the Lessee a fractional amount of the value of remaining timeshare.

Clause 38, Modification To Lease which is supposed to prevent unilateral changes to the Lease "if changes in any way prejudice the rights of existing lessees" is similarly ignored, and the courts have allowed modifications to the lease to correspond to the test case lease.

So no, I hope our judges are not complicit in a flawed decision. But were the courts somehow influenced by the Province of B.C. and possibly Alberta who don't want a major tourist destination to fail. Nor do they want to pump in public money, which has been known to defeat governments? I can't help but wonder.
 

CleoB

newbie
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
196
Reaction score
190
Points
103
You are correct, courts can only decide on the case presented. And please understand where I am coming from. Some battles have been fought and the no one likes the outcome. But what the settlement is, who it is binding upon, and the rights of those who are not represented by MG are unclear. Energy is better spent on attacking the issues the court has not ruled on, over fighting battles lost IMHO.
Yes you are totally correct on that point. I have to say though that my husband that has over 35 years of experience in property management said "we are not paying capital costs".....so it was what was presented to the first few judges that a decision was made.....and the other judges just followed suit. They were not going to over-ride the first decisions, not matter that they were wrong. IMHO.
 

CleoB

newbie
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
196
Reaction score
190
Points
103
I sure hope the nine judges are not incompetent or complicit, but the logic they followed in arriving at their decision is disturbing. Not because the TS Users (TSU) lost the case, but because the judges departed so far from the terms of the contracts/leases. Nine justices being in unanimous agreement does not strengthen the case, it weakens it. How is it possible that nine justices could review a mountain of evidence and not one find one point in favour of the TSU? Not one! It defies logic. Seems the decision had already been made in favour of the resort owners, and the duty of the justices was to dress it up in pretty sounding legalese.

I think it was Justice Loo who asked the rhetorical question, "if the timeshare owners don't pay, then who" - and inadvertently revealed her legal myopia.

You say a key issue they have agreed on is that you (we) did not enter into a commercial lease - but that we entered into a timeshare plan. Well so what? In other words, they say we do not have a lease we have a timeshare plan. The justices had to draw that distinction - it was vital to their flawed decision. The reason being that leases, lessors, and lessees have well established legal rights and responsibilities. Definition of a lease: "A contract by which one party (Lessor) conveys land, property, services, etc. to another (Lessee) for a specified time, usually in return for a periodic payment." Sounds to me like we have leases. But I know for sure I have a lease because my contract says it is a lease, and throughout the contract the resort owner is referred to as the Lessor and the TSU the Lessee. Here are some important characteristics of leases that can be found in any real estate law textbook or online: "The Lessor is bound to deliver the leased property to the Lessee in good condition." "The Lessee is not liable for loss or damage resulting from proper use." Clearly Northmont had a legal right to supply the Lessees with a property in good condition and it is their responsibility to maintain it in good condition. So what is the legal recourse if the Lessor breaches his responsibility to deliver and maintain the property in good condition: "In case the leased property is not delivered in a condition suitable for the purpose on which it is leased, the Lessee may terminate the contract." So at this point we can give credit to the nine justices for being competent because they knew the established rights and responsibilities of Lessors and Lessees was going to be problematic to their decision. So nine justices unanimously concluded that it was not really a lease in the usual sense of the word, it was a timeshare plan.

Now that the justices have rebranded the contract, they can proceed to run roughshod over its clauses, the most egregious being adding capital costs to the list of operating costs. Clause 9 lists the operating costs, but nowhere are capital costs to be found. An item as trivial as garbage disposal is included but capital costs for reconstruction of faulty buildings amounting to $40 million are not. How then do the justices conclude that we are responsible for reconstruction of faulty buildings? They simply say it is so: "I conclude that the plain reading of paragraph 9 is that all costs relating to the operation of the Resort, whether in the nature of capital costs or not, are to be borne by the owners. This applies even in the event of reconstruction of parts of the Resort as needed, whether from deferred maintenance issues or otherwise." Voila, the TSU are now stuck for maintaining the property in pristine condition - some forever and some for the remainder of their 40 year leases, unless they pay the ransom to get out.

Clause 13 in my lease, Default Of The Lessee In Any Payment, seems to be completely ignored by the justices in favour of Northmont's creative cash grab. But Clause 13 clearly states that if the Lessor takes back the timeshare, they pay the Lessee a fractional amount of the value of remaining timeshare.

Clause 38, Modification To Lease which is supposed to prevent unilateral changes to the Lease "if changes in any way prejudice the rights of existing lessees" is similarly ignored, and the courts have allowed modifications to the lease to correspond to the test case lease.

So no, I hope our judges are not complicit in a flawed decision. But were the courts somehow influenced by the Province of B.C. and possibly Alberta who don't want a major tourist destination to fail. Nor do they want to pump in public money, which has been known to defeat governments? I can't help but wonder.
Well the Federal Court of Appeal in the ruling against Club Intrawest (of which Geldert represented) ruled that the Timeshare owners merely own a right of occupancy. https://www.newswire.ca/news-releas...deral-court-of-appeal-decision-635276573.html So how is it that these judges decided we were "owners that had to pay for capital costs"?
 

CleoB

newbie
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
196
Reaction score
190
Points
103
The legal wording of the settlement clearly states that there will be a severance of all ties to Northmont and the resort as a result of paying the settlement fee. I am not worried about that aspect personally. I am just super choked that I have to pay this ridiculous settlement amount to these crooks! Appears to be no way around it from where I am standing without taking on huge risk in the future. Fortunately for me, I can pay to get out, but I'm not happy about it! I won't be paying until the last possible minute. Still praying for a miracle!
Yes the agreement is with NM but KW bough the assets from NM and NM is still a standing company....so are you fully released from all parties associated with NM?
 

CleoB

newbie
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
196
Reaction score
190
Points
103
IF we are going to pursue something like that, we better start the process now. I have to go thru the release in more detail, but think, once it's signed we are also releasing the lawyer and agreeing to a gag order against ALL parties.

We may have to go after him thru his insurance company....ALL lawyers have to carry it, just for this this reason... He gave BAD advice (do not pay) which cost us individually...... ... and most of us have emails to substantiate that. I think those complaints have to be done before paying and signing off though.

As well, spoke to someone who was familiar as to the start of this. It seems that young Mr. MG was extremely green and had never tried a major case before AKA... this was his first. The rest of the lawyers walked away because no one was playing nice in the sandbox and he had all sorts of "fresh out of school" ideas, but little to no practical experience... hence our dilemma and misguided legal advice.
So then why didn't the other lawyers advise their clients on why there weren't pursuing the case. Before we joined Geldert we were with another firm and when they backed out they indicated that MG was going forward but never indicated MG was inexperienced.
 

ecwinch

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,736
Reaction score
1,120
Points
748
Location
San Antonio
Resorts Owned
Marriott Harbour Point (HP), Kauai Beach Villas, Riverside Suites, WorldMark Pts (WM), Wyndham Pts
You can't say that the courts can only rule on what is presented; and, then say that those issues have been examined in detail by the courts. It is one or the other. Either the Defense didn't present the necessary evidence to prove their case; or, the Defense did present the necessary evidence and the court ruled against them. I very much think the Defense didn't present the necessary evidence to prove their case.

Everyone has to concede that judges can get it wrong. Juries, usually 12-people, can get it wrong.

It is not "one or the other". As you later state, the Defense can have presented all the necessary evidence AND have the court rule against them.

Which is exactly what happened based on the court records. I never said NOT everything was presented, only that court can only consider what WAS presented. Which it appears they did.
 

CleoB

newbie
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
196
Reaction score
190
Points
103
It is not "one or the other". As you later state, the Defense can have presented all the necessary evidence AND have the court rule against them.

Which is exactly what happened based on the court records. I never said NOT everything was presented, only that court can only consider what WAS presented. Which it appears they did.
Yes and this is where our lawyer failed us. He did not present what his clients said he should have......rather he choose to go his own way and we are now paying for it.
 

MgolferL

newbie
Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
48
Reaction score
93
Points
28
Resorts Owned
Fairmont Sunchaser Palm Springs Marriott
Would it help our case against MG if we all were citing the SAME specific reasons for bringing his name to the law society. In other words here are three or four reasons why we feel he was negligent in carrying out his duties as our attorney. Otherwise it may just look like a bunch of scattered complaints from people who lost a case? Comments or suggestions?
I would agree with that. Items could include:
1. Told us not to pay anything. If we had at least paid the money in trust the interest would have stopped.
2. Supplied fragmented, incomplete information throughout the process.
3. Did not allow us to see the "negotiated" agreement and vote on it.
4. Imposed an unrealistic time-frame in which to interpret the agreement.
5. Agreed to an unrealistic time-frame to complete the agreement.
6. Dropped the appeal. Without agreement from the group.
7. Not responding to clients.
8. Ignored advice throughout the process.

Any more?
 

MgolferL

newbie
Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
48
Reaction score
93
Points
28
Resorts Owned
Fairmont Sunchaser Palm Springs Marriott
So then why didn't the other lawyers advise their clients on why there weren't pursuing the case. Before we joined Geldert we were with another firm and when they backed out they indicated that MG was going forward but never indicated MG was inexperienced.
Don't know why... and would love to know.
 

ecwinch

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,736
Reaction score
1,120
Points
748
Location
San Antonio
Resorts Owned
Marriott Harbour Point (HP), Kauai Beach Villas, Riverside Suites, WorldMark Pts (WM), Wyndham Pts
I wish I understood this point more. First, we are not owners, we have leases. Please let me know what I am missing.
.....
Does someone know where and how they ruled this?

It simply comes down to the court's decision that:
"In summary, JEKE’s interest, under the JEKE VIAs, is not that of a commercial tenant, but is a part of a substantial number of other interests in the Resort which are to be collectively managed for the benefit of all owners or lessees."

AKA that you are members of a timeshare plan and not the lessee's of commercial property. That ruling was made by Judge Loo in the first case, and Judge Fitzpatrick reached the same conclusion. Decisions sustained on appeal.

Judge Fitzpatrick's reasons for that decision run from pg 27 - 31, paragraphs 99 to 115. They do not reflect that the court only engaged in a cursory review of circumstances when reaching that decision. http://sunchaservillas.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/JEKE-v.-Northmont-Judgment-Highlighted.pdf

If you have not done so, I would encourage everyone who questions the court's decision to read those sections. For those not inclined I would summarize those elements as:

1) That the fundamental nature of a time share plan is in creating an interest that is not specific, but is to be used generally in conjunction with other time share owners; as your agreement outlines. As opposed to a lease, which is for a specific property.

2) That the project was formed and regulated under the timeshare provisions of the Real Estate Act as noted in the prospectus document which contained the following bolded statement: TIME SHARING INVOLVES A CONTINUING RELATIONSHIP WITH A SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF OWNERS OF EACH TIME SHARE INTEREST. And the essence of this disclosure is also outlined in paragraph 13 of the VIA's.

3) That your usage rights "floated" as opposed to being assigned a specific unit for a specific period of time
 
Last edited:

truthr

newbie
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
286
Reaction score
294
Points
123
Location
British Columbia
I would agree with that. Items could include:
1. Told us not to pay anything. If we had at least paid the money in trust the interest would have stopped.
2. Supplied fragmented, incomplete information throughout the process.
3. Did not allow us to see the "negotiated" agreement and vote on it.
4. Imposed an unrealistic time-frame in which to interpret the agreement.
5. Agreed to an unrealistic time-frame to complete the agreement.
6. Dropped the appeal. Without agreement from the group.
7. Not responding to clients.
8. Ignored advice throughout the process.

Any more?
Can anyone say "bait and switch" more than once?
Strongly discouraged clients from interacting with each other.
Instilling fear of each other and the opponent.
#6 should be dropped the Opposition to the Trustee's Petition without our consent.
Did not take instruction but rather made demands and then passed them off as client instructions.
Not providing documents for ease of transition for clients who he defaulted to "proceed on their own".
Not revealing and providing documents for ALL court proceedings, ie., Appeal in BC and AB.
Not providing court documents in a timely fashion, ie., Judge Young's decision was available on the internet on October 20th, 2017 and not provided to us by him until October 30th.
Not providing proper accounting of joint trust account.
Treating clients differently by providing information to some and not to others.
Creating situations that caused individual emails and telephone conversations rather than putting it in an email to the entire group.

I could go on.
 

DisgustedinWA

newbie
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
13
Reaction score
13
Points
3
I would agree with that. Items could include:
1. Told us not to pay anything. If we had at least paid the money in trust the interest would have stopped.
2. Supplied fragmented, incomplete information throughout the process.
3. Did not allow us to see the "negotiated" agreement and vote on it.
4. Imposed an unrealistic time-frame in which to interpret the agreement.
5. Agreed to an unrealistic time-frame to complete the agreement.
6. Dropped the appeal. Without agreement from the group.
7. Not responding to clients.
8. Ignored advice throughout the process.

Any more?

So. if MG boxes us in with this "settlement" complete with the punitive 162% summary judgement if we don't pay the ransom, we can't pursue damages against him or his cohorts due to the gag order and he get's one more turn at the trough. Now I understand his legal strategy. I asked him what I was getting for my last $500 retainer. Now I now. This settlement was structured for his protection only. If he hadn't bound us to this "settlement" the worst we could have done was wait for a judgement on interest (that could only have been less) and we would have had the option of paying our statement and getting our timeshare back. This is my complaint.
 

Broke Mama

newbie
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Messages
22
Reaction score
6
Points
3
Location
washington
Resorts Owned
Sunchaser
So. if MG boxes us in with this "settlement" complete with the punitive 162% summary judgement if we don't pay the ransom, we can't pursue damages against him or his cohorts due to the gag order and he get's one more turn at the trough. Now I understand his legal strategy. I asked him what I was getting for my last $500 retainer. Now I now. This settlement was structured for his protection only. If he hadn't bound us to this "settlement" the worst we could have done was wait for a judgement on interest (that could only have been less) and we would have had the option of paying our statement and getting our timeshare back. This is my complaint.
Except for us that said no to settlement we don't know where we stand either. MG won't talk to us and NM won't talk to us. We don't know what we owe. NM won't give us a statement owed and MG won't write us back. So then What? Wait to get served?
 

Scammed!

newbie
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
104
Reaction score
195
Points
43
It's been mental torture for me in the last few weeks, and throughout the years not knowing or understanding what was happening, and not knowing what everyone else was doing or thinking. Not being able to talk to anyone who could explain this to me. Today I'm fighting this battle in fear and desperation, its like a movie, and I've been framed!.... Who can I trust? We were definitley brainwashed, the fear was put into each, and everyone of us, and that's how they won their game....they kept us silent. We didn't speak as the well behaved little children we were, or else, there were those threats. We all believed in one person throughout this whole dilemma no different then being in a cult. There is so much more to this injustice we have all found ourselves in. We will continue to fight united, as the strangers in the dark! Maybe one day we will all see the faces behind the masks we wear. Maybe one day our voices will be heard..........
 

FairSun

newbie
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
50
Reaction score
57
Points
18
Resorts Owned
Sunchaser in Fairmont
.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
14
Reaction score
44
Points
173
Location
alberta canada
It simply comes down to the court's decision that:
"In summary, JEKE’s interest, under the JEKE VIAs, is not that of a commercial tenant, but is a part of a substantial number of other interests in the Resort which are to be collectively managed for the benefit of all owners or lessees."

AKA that you are members of a timeshare plan and not the lessee's of commercial property. That ruling was made by Judge Loo in the first case, and Judge Fitzpatrick reached the same conclusion. Decisions sustained on appeal.

Judge Fitzpatrick's reasons for that decision run from pg 27 - 31, paragraphs 99 to 115. They do not reflect that the court only engaged in a cursory review of circumstances when reaching that decision. http://sunchaservillas.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/JEKE-v.-Northmont-Judgment-Highlighted.pdf

If you have not done so, I would encourage everyone who questions the court's decision to read those sections. For those not inclined I would summarize those elements as:

1) That the fundamental nature of a time share plan is in creating an interest that is not specific, but is to be used generally in conjunction with other time share owners; as your agreement outlines. As opposed to a lease, which is for a specific property.

2) That the project was formed and regulated under the timeshare provisions of the Real Estate Act as noted in the prospectus document which contained the following bolded statement: TIME SHARING INVOLVES A CONTINUING RELATIONSHIP WITH A SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF OWNERS OF EACH TIME SHARE INTEREST. And the essence of this disclosure is also outlined in paragraph 13 of the VIA's.

3) That your usage rights "floated" as opposed to being assigned a specific unit for a specific period of time

Okay, we can all argue and be upset with the judges decision, we all feel the judge(s) were wrong. Going past that and accepting the judgement for what it is, what troubles me is how can Northwynd justify that we all owe 26.8% interest for the past 4 years on the Renovation Project? The only argument I could see in their favor is IF they had gone ahead with renovating the buildings that reflected the numbers of those who chose to stay Plus those of us that chose to fight this. There are 8 buildings in the Riverside area, 8 buildings in the Hillside area (plus two smaller terrace buildings that have several units wholly owned), plus the Riverview building. From my knowledge only 4 of the buildings in the Riverside area have had renovations completed. It should be noted also that these Riverside buildings are much smaller in the number of units as compared to the Hillside buildings. Approximately 4000 timeshare owners chose to stay and paid the Renovation Project. 4000 out of 14000 timeshare owners is not proportional to the amount of work done thus far.

From Sunchasers' website on the renovation project the buildings completed are buildings 300, 400, 500 and 800. They are 13,263 sq ft each for a total of 53,052 sq ft. The total square footage of ALL the buildings originally planned for the renovation project amounts to 188,442 sq ft. Thus to date, 28.15 % of the planned work to the buildings has been completed. This clearly shows that there has been absolutely NO renovation work completed by those of us that chose to fight the renovation project. Again, how can they justify interest on work not done?
 
Last edited:

truthr

newbie
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
286
Reaction score
294
Points
123
Location
British Columbia
It's been mental torture for me in the last few weeks, and throughout the years not knowing or understanding what was happening, and not knowing what everyone else was doing or thinking. Not being able to talk to anyone who could explain this to me. Today I'm fighting this battle in fear and desperation, its like a movie, and I've been framed!.... Who can I trust? We were definitley brainwashed, the fear was put into each, and everyone of us, and that's how they won their game....they kept us silent. We didn't speak as the well behaved little children we were, or else, there were those threats. We all believed in one person throughout this whole dilemma no different then being in a cult. There is so much more to this injustice we have all found ourselves in. We will continue to fight united, as the strangers in the dark! Maybe one day we will all see the faces behind the masks we wear. Maybe one day our voices will be heard..........
You summed it up and you are not alone!!
WE HEAR YOU!!
 
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
34
Reaction score
73
Points
18
Resorts Owned
Fairmont
It simply comes down to the court's decision that:
"In summary, JEKE’s interest, under the JEKE VIAs, is not that of a commercial tenant, but is a part of a substantial number of other interests in the Resort which are to be collectively managed for the benefit of all owners or lessees."

Again, thank you for the response, I never understood this argument before. It looks like GypsyOne had a good post on this as well.

So the court ruled we do not have leases, we have a time share interest? I don't understand that since my contract clearly states it is a lease. How does the court re-defining my contract from "lessee" to "time share interest" change my rights as a lessee? Is there a law that changes these rights. I could not figure this out from reading the decision. If the intent is to best collectively manage the resort for the benefit of the owners or lesses's, it is obvious they failed miserably based on the current situation, and even done unbelievable harm to most.

When reading the court decision, I found myself in disagreement with many of their points. As GypsyOne said, their reasoning is disturbing. The courts interpretation of the contract is by no means what I would consider a plain and common interpretation. How would anyone be able to predict the logic of the court when buying a time share? How could this be my fault as a ordinary consumer? It appears that my goal should be to be to never sign another contract ever again.

I know it was mentioned that we should focus on things that have not been decided yet by the courts. However, I feel it is important to understand how we ended up in this mess and learn for those going forward. For me (I was option 1), with the help of my lawyer committing me to an "excellent settlement", it seems I no longer have any legal options other than pursue my lawyer (yea, figure that one out). Short or a miracle, it may be too late for me and many others, but I can speculate that there will be thousands still affected by this in the near future (some who stayed and want out, those that can't pay, option 2 people, those with another lawyer, those who ignored this mess so far) and this is by no means over. Everyone please continue to contact those lawmakers and anyone who can get laws changed to protect the consumers rights going forward. Insist they do something. Can someone that knows how update the contact list and re-post?
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
54
Reaction score
56
Points
18
MG's liability. You guys have got it wrong, as I see it.

Yes, the way he handled things in the last several months, the binding, not giving us the promised input on the settlement, the cancelation of the petition, all seem like fair game. In fact these seem less like incompetence and more like not acting in our interests.

Some of the other stuff, his poor handling of communication, there may be things there but I would guess those issues may get him in trouble but wouldn't merit any $$ being paid.

What is important are
  1. The mistakes he made in strategy, especially when instructed by the Judges!
  2. Procedural mistakes, being late, etc. that cost us to be lumped in with JEKE's contract and also caused evidence to not be submitted to the Alberta trial.
  3. The big mistake, it sounds like, which was to not pursue the Fair Trade Act. (I still think this is grounds for appeal. What the heck was Judge Young doing whispering this to MG during the trial? For the love of all things good and righteous, how do judges that know the law ignore it? It's not evidence for a bad legal team to submit, it's the law, it stands and if not used correctly in a trial then this should mean mistrial, appeal, etc.)
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
54
Reaction score
56
Points
18
We need a laywer to talk to Judge Young. We can't do it. She has to hear from legal counsel. Then we can find out if she will rule on costs, interests and these items that are about expirations. That is what we need RIGHT NOW!!! WE NEED LAWYERS TO TALK TO THE JUDGE!!!

That's it right now. That's the big priority. The rest can wait. We need to have legal representation talk to the judge. We can also understand more about the apeal through that dialog but the priority is to have legal counsel say that the group is fragmented and does not all agree with the settlement. She needs to get the sides together, with us there hopefully (yes, anyone willing to drive there), but regardless the judge and the sides need to be together as she handles the decisions on the costs, interest and expirations.
 

torqued

newbie
Joined
Jan 1, 2018
Messages
102
Reaction score
105
Points
53
Location
Virginia
Resorts Owned
Sunchaser
So possibly a dumb question but would the Alberta consumer protection act only apply to residents of Alberta in this case? Those of us in the states or BC it would not apply?
 
Top