California red light tickets - need GPS unit info

[ricoba]

Scoop,
Remind me which part of the valley you live in and the make and color of your car. I don't want to be in a rear end accident when you stop when that light turns yellow and I'm behind you. My foot is always covering the brake when I reach an intersection, but I don't know about the guy behind me...

Fern

Thanks to this thread, this afternoon I was especially careful to stop at all yellows (after checking my rear view mirror) - not to avoid a ticket, but for safety.

But as Fern really aptly points out what about the person behind you? Here in LA that person is more often not preparing to barrel through on that really stale yellow or even red?

On more than one occasion on a yellow light where there are two lanes or more proceeding, I have often stopped and the guy to the left or right of me cruises on through. On a single lane, this can be dangerous for you if the guy behind you intends on making the yellow.

 

[dougp26364]

I think the easy way to put this arguement into perspective is to say just stop at all red lights and you don't have to worry about expensive tickets. It's not a matter of right or wrong or European ways vs American ways is it? I think stopping at a red light stands the test of common sense, safty and international laws.

What I find disturbing is the thought that someone would want a device to determine which lights they can run based on risk of getting a ticket. Lights with camera's are higher risk so you don't run those. Lights without camera's are lower risk for getting a ticket and are O.K. to run. I know that's not what the OP wrote but, that seems to be the idea behind getting a device to tell you which intersection have camera's and which ones don't.

Have I ever run a red light? Yes I have. One in particular that I remember from when I was 16. It was a small town and I was on a highway. I just didn't see it. Thank goodness the other drivers saw me coming and new I wasn't stopping. Otherwise it would have been a very ugly accident. Call it a wake up call for me.

Along the lines of that being a wake up call, that incident also probably saved both mine and my wife's life. Since then I've been very aware that people run red lights. Sometimes on purpose trying to beat the light and sometimes by accident. We were coming home from Branson and there is a light at an interesection in Carthage, MO we go through. It's at a point where traffic is coming off an interstate where the speed limit is 70 MPH going into town. A semi missed this light, much like I did as a kid so many years ago. If I had just looked at the light rather than looking for traffic, we would have been nailed broadside by a semi doing 70 mph. We'd have been dead or permanetly disabled at the least.

To intentionally try to beat a red light carries the same risk as trying to beat a train. The only difference is you risk another families life when you're trying to beat a red light. Chances are, when you're trying to beat a train, the only people who will be seriously injured are those in the car.

Just treat all intersections as if they have camera's and don't worry about spending money on some electronic gismo to tell warn you about robo-cops. Any light you run you run the risk of serious injury. It's just not worth it.

 

[ScoopKona]

But as Fern really aptly points out what about the person behind you? Here in LA that person is more often not preparing to barrel through on that really stale yellow or even red?

From the California DMV:

Solid Yellow– A yellow signal light means “CAUTION.” The red signal is about to appear. When you see the yellow light, stop if you can do so safely. If you can not stop safely, cross the intersection cautiously.

Just because you and I live in states full of scofflaws does mean we need to emulate them.

 

[Fern Modena]

Well, that's nice and all, but since we are talking about *you* and *me* and Nevada, not California, how about Nevada Revised Statutes? Here's what they say:

NRS 484.325. 6. Where the signal is a steady yellow signal alone:
(a) Vehicular traffic facing the signal is thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a steady red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter, and such vehicular traffic must not enter the intersection when the red signal is exhibited.
(b) Pedestrians facing such a signal, unless otherwise directed by another device as provided in NRS 484.325, are thereby advised that there is insufficient time to cross the highway.

Yes, I know it says that you must not enter the intersection when the signal is red (and I know people do, and it is wrong). It does *not* say you should stop when the signal is yellow, and further, it does not say you cannot continue if the signal changes with you in the intersection.

That's Nevada law.

Fern

From the California DMV:

Solid Yellow– A yellow signal light means “CAUTION.” The red signal is about to appear. When you see the yellow light, stop if you can do so safely. If you can not stop safely, cross the intersection cautiously.

Just because you and I live in states full of scofflaws does mean we need to emulate them.

 

[Rose Pink]

On of my favorite movie quotes:
-- From Starman (1984) with Jeff Bridges and Karen Allen:

Jenny....... "For your information pal, that was a *yellow* light back there!"
Starman.... "I watched you very carefully. Red light - stop, green light - go, yellow light - go very fast."

I had thought of this quote also when reading this thread. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Fern Modena]

Then there's them " Pink Lights" too. Anybody ever hear of them? I first heard of Pink Lights in California a few years back.

You know, "Man, that was a PINK LIGHT!" As in, a little bit red...

Fern

 

[Rose Pink]

If you cannot make it through the intersection safely--ie the light turns yellow warning you to stop if you are not already too close to the intersection to stop--just look on the bright side. You are now the first driver in line to go when the light turns green. That's what I tell DH when he gets frustrated at missing the light. "You get to be first in line."

 

[ScoopKona]

Yes, I know it says that you must not enter the intersection when the signal is red (and I know people do, and it is wrong). It does *not* say you should stop when the signal is yellow, and further, it does not say you cannot continue if the signal changes with you in the intersection.

That's Nevada law.

And if it's being done right, it probably isn't being done in Nevada.

So, basically, unless the driver knows exactly how long the light will be yellow, it would still be a good idea to stop at yellow lights. Because it is illegal for any part of the car -- even the "truck nuts" at the back -- to be in the intersection when the light turns red.

I go through yellow lights all the time -- if the light turns yellow when I'm close to the intersection. If the light has been yellow for some time, it's obviously going to turn red soon. So I stop.

The way I look at things, drunk driving, running red lights and texting while driving are all basically the same. These actions put other drivers at risk for stupid and selfish reasons. If drunks only killed themselves (or other drunk drivers) it would be one thing. If texters only swerved into oncoming traffic and hit other texters, that would be another. But it never works out that way.

Red-light runners are the worst of the lot in my opinion. They're basically telling the world, "I'm in a big freakin' hurry. And I'm willing to risk taking life and limb in order to get where I'm going a minute or two faster. My schedule is more important than you and your family."

For some reason, leaving home a little earlier is not an option for such people.

At least drunks can argue that their judgment was impaired, and they wouldn't have gotten behind the wheel if they were thinking straight.

 

[Fisch]

My issue is with privacy and are these really just a cash cow? Citations are sent to the car owners and not punitive to the person who was actually driving the car. In most cases the driver is the owner, but not always. QUOTE]

The pictures are crystal clear. You can see who is driving. If you loan your car and your friend runs a light. A ticket will arrive in your mail, but you won't have to pay it.

 

[Ken555]

I had the great experience of having a driver honk at me because I came to a complete stop before makingg a right hand turn at a red light. There was even a person in the cross walk at the time.

That must have been in Beverly Hills. :hysterical:

 

[Ken555]

I think the easy way to put this arguement into perspective is to say just stop at all red lights and you don't have to worry about expensive tickets.

Yes! Well said!

 

[Ken555]

People should stop at yellow lights unless it is unsafe. That's the European way[...]

In some parts of Europe (not sure if it's still this way) and the Middle East, the yellow light is on during the last few seconds of the green and red, as well. This is to warn drivers that the light is about to change, in addition to the time allotted to the yellow light. I believe this started because most cars used manual transmission and this gave an opportunity to get in gear, etc. I found it to be very helpful since it gave advance warning of a signal change.

 

[PigsDad]

Because it is illegal for any part of the car -- even the "truck nuts" at the back -- to be in the intersection when the light turns red.

In the statute that Fern posted, your statement is incorrect. It only says that you cannot enter an intersection when the light is red. That does not mean that you have to be completely cleared of the intersection by the time the light is red.

That is the same as it is in Colorado. Even if your "front bumper nuts" are in the intersection before the light turns red, you can legally proceed through the intersection.

Here the stoplight cameras take two pictures: one right as the light turns red, and another shortly after. That way they can prove that you entered and proceeded through the intersection after it turned red. The ticket is sent to the registered owner, but if the picture is not of them, they are under no obligation to neither pay the fine nor identify who the driver was (even if it was your spouse).

Kurt

 

[dougp26364]

My rule of thumb is, so long as I don't have to slam on my brakes to stop at a yellow light, I stop. If I feel the need to increase my speed to make it through the intersection before the light would turn red I stop. If someone hits me from behind, at least in KS they are considered at fault.

What I hate is when the light changes at just the right time where you know you'll have to hit the brakes reasonably hard to stop but, in order to make the light you'd also have to step on the gas. It doesn't happen often but it does happen.

 

["Roger"]

In some parts of Europe (not sure if it's still this way) and the Middle East, the yellow light is on during the last few seconds of the green and red, as well. This is to warn drivers that the light is about to change, in addition to the time allotted to the yellow light. I believe this started because most cars used manual transmission and this gave an opportunity to get in gear, etc. I found it to be very helpful since it gave advance warning of a signal change.

I don't remember what happens when a light is turning red, but in England you will often (always?) see the yellow light flash the last few seconds that a light is red. That is to tell you to be ready (especially if you have a manual transmission which most drivers do) to go. With the warning, drivers take off as soon as the light changes.

Personally, I like the system. The warning means that there is no wasted time when the light changes. People go. The one danger would be some American who comes along and runs a yellow light. You absolutely have to be out of the intersection when the light turns (and not on your way through).

 

[laura1957]

As far as privacy goes - I really don't see what that has to do with the situation. Should we just abolish ALL security cameras? Banks, ATMS, convenience stores...??

I try to stop at all yellow lights, if I happen to miss and get a ticket - I will pay it and hopefully be more cautious in the future!!

I have very little sympathy for people of any economic status not being able to afford the fine - If you cant do the fine, don't do the crime.

 

[ScoopKona]

In the statute that Fern posted, your statement is incorrect. It only says that you cannot enter an intersection when the light is red. That does not mean that you have to be completely cleared of the intersection by the time the light is red.

Wow... didn't know that. That certainly goes a long way to explain the way people drive here in Las Vegas. (Hint, it's worse than Miami.)

So it's fine to be an illegal alien, driving an unregistered, uninsured vehicle*, and run through yellow lights in school zones -- so long as the car has a current smog inspection.


Yep, if it's being done right, it probably isn't being done in Nevada. We should change the state name to "NevaDUH."


* Technically illegal. The police don't enforce this one because they have been instructed not to. They only write citations for these offenses if they are already ticketing for something else.

 

[Passepartout]

.....what about the person behind you? Here in LA that person is more often not preparing to barrel through on that really stale yellow or even red?

They'll only do it once. Some people are slow learners, but the DO catch on.

Jim Ricks

 

[Elan]

They'll only do it once. Some people are slow learners, but the DO catch on.

Jim Ricks

All the more reason to not take the hitch out of the truck's receiver. I figure it sits about radiator level on most cars.

 

[Passepartout]

Right on the permanent hitch in the receiver. Makes a handy step too.

Here's Idaho's code on yellow lights. It looks the same as others in that it's legal to enter an intersection on a yellow light, but not on red.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(2) Steady yellow indication:
(a) A driver facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow signal is being warned that the related green movement is ending, or that a red indication will be shown immediately after it.

(3) Steady red indication:
(a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop before entering the intersection, as defined in section 49-110, Idaho Code, and shall remain stopped until an indication to proceed is shown except as provided in paragraph (b) of this subsection. While stopped at the intersection, the driver shall remain stopped behind the marked limit line, as defined in section 49-113, Idaho Code, or if there is no marked limit line, shall not block the crosswalk.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jim Ricks

 

[ricoba]

I find this conversation interesting.

Yes, obeying the law without a doubt is the right thing to do. Yet there are circumstances here in LA that do make that almost impossible from time-to-time. Thankfully, not always, nor all the time. But occasionally in order to be safe "skirting" the code is sometimes necessary. I am not saying that is the right thing to do, but with the traffic conditions we face, it is unfortunately the practical thing to do.

BTW Scoop, the reason you have so many drivers in LV driving like the way they do is because lots and lots of Californian's moved to Vegas and took our excellent driving skills with them.

 

[Kozman]

A couple of years ago while driving in southern Florida I stopped for a yellow light and was struck from behind and pushed through the intersection by a truck which led to a hospital visit. My new policy is to look in my rear view mirror and if someone is on my tail I'm going through the yellow.

 

[John Cummings]

I wish they'd install these in Las Vegas. I have been in a couple minor rear-end collisions stopping at red lights. The moron behind me assumed I was going to run the red light -- just like everyone else here seems to do -- and hit me. Neither time resulted in any damage. But three or four people run the red at nearly every intersection in town. It's annoying and dangerous.

In Germany, running a red light is 4 points, a $400 fine, and a one-month suspension. Even running a light that was red for less than a second is 3 points and a $180 fine. That sounds reasonable to me. In fact, I would like to take most of Germany's traffic laws and adopt them here. Particularly DUI laws.

I agree 100%. I have no tolerance for people that break the law, especially those that get caught and then blame the system. I wish they would get a lot tougher on people using their cell phones while driving. It is illegal in California but many people ignore the law.

 

[John Cummings]

I have absolutely no sympathy for red-light runners. People should stop at yellow lights unless it is unsafe. That's the European way, and it is superior to our system of "Green means go, red means stop if you have to, and yellow means go as fast as you can to beat the light."

If inconsiderate drivers are being slapped with $450 tickets, good! I wish we did that here, as well. Nevada has budget shortfalls, too. Let inconsiderate drivers subsidize my taxes. Serves 'em right.

In Germany it would be $400 and no license for a month. $450 doesn't go far enough, if you ask me.

I've heard the "red light cameras are bad" arguments before. Most of the arguments are of this variety: "Well, what happens if I'm under an intersection, and traffic stops in front of me, and the light turns red? That's unfair!"

That's called "blocking an intersection" and is a ticket in itself in most places. People who can't clear the intersection need to stop in front of it. Anyone who is under a red light deserves what they get.

The other argument I see all the time is: "Well, it's been proven that red light cameras INCREASE accidents."

True. There will be an increase in rear-end collisions. That will subside when people get it through their thick skulls that red means stop. And yellow means stop if it is safe to do so.

Since we cannot legislate courtesy, we may as well tax the hell out of inconsiderate drivers. Eventually they'll either get the message or they'll rack up enough points on their licenses that they'll have to take the bus. Win-win, if you ask me.

Very well put and I agree with you. I live in Southern California and frequently drive in Los Angeles. Actually I would rather drive in Los Angeles than Las Vegas which I have also done a lot.

 

[John Cummings]

<snip>

This one hurts. Is there even a Californian in existence that doesn't make a "California stop" when turning right on a red?

I don't!!! I come to a full stop.