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PayPal Dispute Attempt - Stunned!

BellaWyn

BellaWyn

TUG Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
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I just received an email from PayPal indicating that my renter attempted to dispute payment on the morning they checked OUT! :eek:

Gratefully, it was past the 45-day window so PayPal "deferred" it (not sure what that means). I immediately called the resort to find out if there were any issues with the guest (maintenance, guest complaints, etc). The individual at the front desk remembered them and the check-out, pleasantly. She also indicated the guest was complimentary of the room, inquired about the specific building and indicated an interest in future stays.

Other than the email from PayPal, there has been no other communication indicating dissatisfaction with the resort stay. Does this happen often or did I just get the odd ringer?:confused:
 
If you have a contract, and there is one here on TUG that is very good, the language should state that there are no refunds at all. Paypal will not fight against you, if you CYA with a contract and send them a copy with the renters' signature.
 
My advice to people renting out their timeshare is to NEVER accept Paypal. Using a contract is always a good idea but even with a contract the renter can still dispute the charge and at very least cause the landlord a headache and at the worst win the dispute.
 
PayPal isn't actually accepting the dispute, they are basically just telling me the renters tried to recover their monies (more than 100 days after payment).

But what could they be disputing!??:confused:

They went, they stayed, everything went smoothly and they want to go back. What could possibly justify a request for a refund?
 
Very curious - I'd call them!

If these people tried to stiff you, you should warn other Tuggers about them.
 
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DeniseM said:
Very curious - I'd call them!

If these people tried to stiff you, you should warn other Tuggers about them.
Click to expand...

I agree! Let us know who these deadbeats are, so we can avoid them like the plague.

We had someone claim that the resort we were renting didn't have internet service during his stay, which was a feature the resort touts that it has. This was a Colorado resort we own, and they were re-doing the internet that week. We use the contract Yvonne has posted for use, right here on TUG, and the contract states very specfically that any amenity not available is no fault of the owner, or something like that. This was a CC dispute, not Paypal. The CC company called and asked if we had a contract, so we read that line aloud. Case dropped.
 
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gmarine said:
My advice to people renting out their timeshare is to NEVER accept Paypal. Using a contract is always a good idea but even with a contract the renter can still dispute the charge and at very least cause the landlord a headache and at the worst win the dispute.
Click to expand...

What is the downside to acepting Paypal?
 
The other thing with PayPal is even if it's past 45 days if the renter pays with a CC and disputes the charge and wins with his bank PayPal will come back on you.

With a credit card you have 60 days from the time a charge shows on your statement to dispute it.
 
I know Paypal isn't perfect, but I don't think any form of payment is - well maybe cash! :D It sure is fast and convenient, and to me, it's as least as safe as accepting checks. Remember, the scammers even use fake bank checks now! YMMV
 
Really Trying to Spin it Positive Here

thheath said:
With a credit card you have 60 days from the time a charge shows on your statement to dispute it.
Click to expand...
October 2009 is farther out than that. Can they do a chargeback past the 60 days? :(

I have a record of the agreement, a record of the PayPal payment, and at least a dozen or more emails going back and forth confirming, and reconfirming the reservation. Not to mention the numerous telephone calls that transpired. Plus the resort has a record of their stay, which was without incident.

The only thing I don't have is a reason they would try to attempt this type of subversive refund. I'm not out anything except wasted anxiety and disappointment. Technically you can't really consider it a "deadbeat" situation. The most disconcerting part is that the rental came from the Rent Wish area of TUG.

The good news is that it's an anomaly.:whoopie: ("...she says hopefully as she searches for her rose-colored glasses.")
 
I'm sure there are a few people who try to work the system to their financial advantage. I'm sure that a few of those few are TUGgers---after all, there's no reason to expect that TUG isn't a microcosm of the society we live in.

That said, I suspect that using PayPal provides enough convenience to potential renters that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages of the occasional skinflint. And, provided you have a properly executed contract, someone attempting to work the system should find that they do not get very far. It might cost you a little time responding to Paypal's chargeback. But that's just part of the cost of doing business as a "landlord," just as it is to deal with the tire-kickers, mind-changers, low-ballers, etc. etc. etc.
 
Putting "no refunds" in a contract where the purchaser claims he did not received what was promised. I bought an item on Ebay that did not function and received a refund even though it stated no returns. It did not say "as is" in which case I would not have ourchased the item.
 
BellaWyn - did you contact the renter?
 
disputing a vacation

as rickandcindy23 said tuggers should know who they are in case no one thought of it by now what if someone rents inside the 60 day window w/a cc goes on their vacation and then disputes the charge to the cc company. who will win in that case ? you have to think like a crook to beat a crook !!
 
No. When I showed the PayPal email to my DH he asked if we had an email of complaint from the renter. When he found out they had not contacted us, DH said "leave it alone."

He walks away from stuff SO much easier than I do. :eek: It's killing me not to send them an email to find out what the problem is but DH thinks it's a Pandora's box!:annoyed: However, his gut is usually more spot on than mine so I'm trying to disengage the curiosity and chalk it up to Brian's tire-kicker, etc., etc., concept. :)

I was just so stunned that everything would go so smoothly start of finish and then get hit with the PayPal dispute deferment email. It was just ODD! At this point I'm just keeping my thumbs up that the PayPal email will be the last we hear of it.
 
e.bram said:
Putting "no refunds" in a contract where the purchaser claims he did not received what was promised. I bought an item on Ebay that did not function and received a refund even though it stated no returns. It did not say "as is" in which case I would not have ourchased the item.
Click to expand...

Renting a timeshare week you own is different from buying an item on eBay that might not work.

If they use the week, you cannot get that week back, so why should the owner be out the money? I have always rented my Shearwater units for $100 over the maintenance fees--max. I cannot afford to lose that much money because someone cannot deal with a small issue.

If there is a hurricane, the owner cannot be responsible for acts of God, and the renter needs to be aware of trip insurance, which can be purchased from several different companies. I make the renters aware of two different companies that would cover them in the event of illness, flood, blizzard, hurricane, etc. The cost of the insurance is very reasonable and covers airfare, too.

If they cannot go due to a death in the family, the insurance covers it.

But if they are upset because the resort's activities are not to their liking, or the internet isn't working, I am sorry, but I cannot be responsible for it. If the resort has bedbugs, the renter needs to deal with the resort's management themselves, because I cannot do a thing from where I am; I cannot see the problem.

If you rent a hotel room and have issues, you must deal with the front desk. The renter can contact me, and I will do my best to talk to the front desk in their stead, but if the resort is saying the unit is clear of bugs, I would consider my own experiences with that resort, and I would likely believe the manager over the renter who wants compensation.

Shearwater has little tiny ants that invade the kitchen as soon as food is brought in. They love coffee grounds, and every other crumb they can find. If someone insisted they had a bug invasion at Shearwater, I would ask the manager to identify those bugs, since they are probably just the common ants.

If people are expecting Shearwater to be as fancy as the Westin or the Marriott, I tell them it's not fancy at all. I tell them that PAHIO "un-decorated" the units, and the pictures on the website are from a long time ago, probably ten years, and the units have not been decorated since. The bedspreads are faded, the drapes are plain, the furniture is decent but sparse. If I tell them it rivals the Marriotts, they are going to be disappointed. If I tell them the units are plain, they are always satisfied--even thrilled.
 
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I avoid ''Paypal'' like the plague for all purposes. There is a website www.paypalsucks.com that explains some of the problems with it. There is also a class action lawsuit against them.
 
Dispute periods for credit cards depend on the card, the type of service/goods purchased, whether the balance has been paid, the state and/or country you live in and the reason for the dispute - making absolute statements such as what's below is inappropriate and very inaccurate.

thheath said:
With a credit card you have 60 days from the time a charge shows on your statement to dispute it.
Click to expand...
 
The tiny print will save your butt...

The advice I gave in the "Sticky" part of this forum above from Nov '05 is still what I use today. I'm really into renting condos and timeshares daily.

There is a cost to do business - I still like PayPal and have not had any problems with over 200+ rentals now in the past 10 years. I pay 3% to PayPal and my renters get the security of using the largest bank on the planet - PayPal.

Most of their assumptions are wrong but who am I to straighten them out.

A professionally written rental agreement is a must - the freebies are 80% of the way to covering all the bases - good enough for casual renting. You get what you pay for folks.

I only accept PayPal and occasionally will accept a company check if a company is renting from me. Personal checks are fine too if you have the lead time to screw around with them. My experience with folks and personal checks is something I don't ever want to repeat.

Disputes between landlord and renter are covered by a paragraph in the lease and PayPal or any CC bank will step aside once they see what the renter agreed to.

Best of luck,
 
I agree with Perry, no refunds under any circumstances. As long as the resort is still standing, the renter has no leg to stand on in a dispute.
 
Yep - owners should not be in the business of insuring a renter's change of plans - that's why there is travel insurance!
 
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I am not a seasoned pro at renting my timeshare out, but after the small hassle last year, I decided to accept checks for the balance of the rental. So far my renters have been older couples. None of them have been PayPal members. The $100 deposit thru PayPal is simple for them - it just goes on their credit card. The problem arises when they go to pay the balance through PayPal. It's high enough that PayPal won't let them put it on their credit card, so they have to jump through a bunch of hoops to make the payment. I require them to make the final payment within 10 business days of their confirmation. So far so good with receiving the check in that timeframe. If it is a last minute rental, then I would do it all through PayPal.

Cheers!
 
Paypal rarely rules in favor of the buyer in a dispute, unless there is material or tangible dispute that is well documented. Paypal never grants a dispute regarding the condition of good or service. So, what does it all mean? Paypal is great for sellers, but it sucks for the buyers. But the bias is somewhat understandable. The buyers usually need to first take a leap of faith and make the payment before the delivery of goods and services. Also the buyers can usually take additional precaution in order to avoid scam from shady sellers, but sellers don't have any way to detect buyers wanting to scam them. I don't see any problem using Paypal in place of cash / credit card in general. As usual, caveat emptor, and you'll be just fine. BTW I hope the renter was not a tugger.
 
I would disagree that paypal rarely rules in favour of the buyer. Even if paypal agrees with the seller then the buyer can dispute it with their credit card who is on their side.
 
This is where a contract protects the timeshare owner. Don't ever rent without a contract. I would like to see the renter try to prove they didn't get what they were promised. Contracts work!
 
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