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Is Starwood management failing owners ?

DanCali, ... Sounds like you don't like the provisions of the State statutes permitting the charging of the rental costs and housekeeping.

It's pretty hard to ignore what a State staute allows.

The HOA is entitled to the rent. Would you have Starwood forego the (passed through from HOA) rental costs and the HOA (not Starwood) forego the housekeeping?

Whose side are you on - the delinquent owner's? ... eom
 
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DanCali, ... Sounds like you don't like the provisions of the State statutes permitting the charging of the rental costs and housekeeping.

It's pretty hard to ignore what a State staute allows.

Would you have Starwood forego the rental costs and the HOA forego the housekeeping?

Whose side are you on - the delinquent owner's? ... eom

It's not an issue of whether I like it or not (I don't)... Do you like it?

The reality is that if this is the "solution" then it is not a solution because it allows Starwood to get all or the vast majority of the revenue while the HOA remains with delinquent MFs. Do we agree on this?

As long as we agree that this is not a solution then let's stop pretending that the current manner in which units are rented helps the HOAs, because it doesn't. If delinquent accounts remain delinquent, MFs will continue to go up, and the death spiral scenario will be inevitable.

I had a few hypothetical proposals which all improve on the status quo... As Fred pointed out, thay are all wishful thinking - and I agree with him because in the current situation Starwood already gets all the revenue income anyway, so why would they change anything?

And no, I'm not on the delinquent owner's side - but I am on the owners' side... are you?
 
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DanCali, ... Sounds like you don't like the provisions of the State statutes permitting the charging of the rental costs and housekeeping.

It's pretty hard to ignore what a State staute allows.

The HOA is entitled to the rent. Would you have Starwood forego the (passed through from HOA) rental costs and the HOA (not Starwood) forego the housekeeping?

Whose side are you on - the delinquent owner's? ... eom

The misunderstanding is who benefits from the housekeeping charges.
Dan assumes Starwood benefits. You assume the HOA does.
Have I stated this correctly?
 
DanCali, ... "the "solution" it is not a solution because it allows Starwood to get all or the vast majority of the revenue and the HOA remains with delinquent MFs. Do we agree on this?"

No, we do not agree. Starwood does not get "all or the vast majority" of the rent. The HOA may or may not remain with delinquent MFs. It depends on the rent collected.

The landlord, by statute, is the HOA. The rent goes to the HOA. The HOA pays Starwood for its rental costs. The HOA keeps the housekeeping cost. The delinquent account gets credited for the net rent.

If the net rent is more than the amount due, the owner gets a credit against the next year's assessment (like any overpayment). If the net rent is less than the delinquency, the owner is still delinquent. That amount can be liened and foreclosed.

I admit that in these unusual economic times, the unit may not even rent (think SDO in mid-Summer or Mountain View in mud season or SBP almost any time). And, even if it rents, the rent will probably be short of the delinquent amount of the MFs and the delinquent fees.

But, we certainly do not agree on much else about renting of delinquent accounts. ... eom
 
Anyways... I don't mean to offend you but I don't want to give up those amenties for an independently run HOA that isn't going to replace the gym equipment for 20 years plus.

I think, we might be 2 timesharers that are at different points in our lives. You probably don't have kids that care about the amenities offered at a larger resort where my kids thrive at place like WKORV. They are very social and love meeting people. At the Cliff's Club we were lucky if ran into one person the entire day. But I'm also glad there are different resorts out there so, people can have choices. I'm not happy with Starwood MF increases which are totally different from Marriot, Hilton or Hyatt increases..

You seem to think that only the chains upgrade and renovate. All of my resorts do so whether they are chains or not, and unfortunatelly the renovations and upgrades often come with assessments from both chains and independents. The difference is that at the owner controlled resorts they better justify the renovation expenses by obtaining multiple bids or the board/mgt company will be gone. Same goes with housekeeping, upkeep, mgt fees, etc. They know that they better be providing the best services they can for the least expensive cost. Most of my independents keep MF's low while building in enough reserves to prevent having to charge assessments on upgrades. Many independent resorts are very nice with regards to amenities and accomodations, it is not an either/or situation where the resort will not be nice unless it is a chain.

I am at a different point in life than you are. I am empty nest and since my kids are young adults they don't look for other kids to play with. I am at the age where it is nice to lay by the pool without a lot of screaming kids running around and splashing you. It is nice and oh so relaxing to have a pool area where the majority of people are adults.

We typically leave the resort to go hiking and exploring by 9 or 10 in the morning and don't return until dark. We eat breakfast and supper in the room more often than we eat out. When I want to eat out I usually don't eat on site because I would rather go to the highest rated restaurants in the area to enjoy local foods, and very rarely is one of those top rated restaurants on site at any timeshare.

I too want to be Ocean front at any place I go, so we are in agreement there. There are numerous non chain timeshares in Hawaii, Florida, and the Bahamas, etc that are ocean front, the chains don't have a monopoly on that.

Usually the chains are huge complexes swarming with people. Often getting a chair by the pool requires getting up at daylight to put towels on some chairs to reserve them or else by 10 am you will be out of luck until late in the day. I like smaller resorts where there aren't the masses of people crowded onto the beach or pool area like lemmings on their way to the ocean. A smaller pool is all that is required for smaller resorts because fewer people are on site. The downside to smaller resorts is that there are less amenities. This is due to occupancy levels more than whether it is an independent or a chain IMO.

I loved the Vistana Villages renovated unit I stayed in this summer but the pools were very crowded. The rooms were large and as nice as any I have stayed in at any resort. It is a resort I would like to own if the MF rises weren't double digit each year and I am afraid that in 10 years they will have another renovation costing each owner several thousand dollars in assessments. I looked on e-bay after returning and considered buying because it is a great resort, but I was too afraid that the MF's would get too high in the near future. I will probably trade for a week there again in 4 years, but I will do it with a trade that has MF's of $550 and an exchange fee of $164 which is cheaper than owning.

I like the big giant resorts and the huge pools to vacation in sometimes for a change, but overall I tend to prefer smaller resorts with fewer people where the people at the front desk know your name by the end of the week. I like coming back to the resort to eat lunch and easily getting a chair by the pool. I like parking right in front of my room. I like walking up a flight or 2 of stairs to get to my room rather than waiting in line to get on an elevator in the lobby. At check in and check out it is great to not have to queue up to get your room keys. It is nice to know that the same people will be next door to you each and every year. There are things I like better about the mega resorts, and things I like better about the smaller resorts, but if I had to pick one it would be a smaller resort.

As you said thank goodness there are different choices for different tastes. If the chains would reign in their expenses, keep MF's reasonable, and look out for the owners more than they do and I would own more chain resorts than I do. Since the chains have shown little ability or desire to control costs I don't want to own at any chains anymore. To each his own and no offense taken.
 
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FredM, ... "The misunderstanding is who benefits from the housekeeping charges. Dan assumes Starwood benefits. You assume the HOA does.
Have I stated this correctly?"

Yes.

But, it's not the only problem. DanCali is against any major amount being assumed and deducted from the rent for rental costs and housekeeping because, in his mind, it perpetuates the delinquency.

I assume that the HOA passes the rental cost on to Starwood. It may be 50% of the rent; it may be less. Neither Dan nor I know.

I assume that the HOA keeps the housekeeping costs of salaries and materials because that is a HOA expense in the budget. But, I do not know for sure. It seems like a simple accounting allocation. Any other allocation really seems quite improper. (My experience as a HOA board member indicates that, even if for only insurance purposes, the employees working at a property are HOA, not management company, employees.) But, likewise, Dan does not know that Starwood gets any housekeeping fees. ... eom
 
Starwood can rent a 2BR at SVV for roughly $150 to $200 per night. Let's be optimistic and say they do it for $200/night. On a 7 night rental they gross $1400. From that the owner or HOA or whoever pay them a 50% commission so we are left with $700. We still need to pay 7 housekeeping charges for a 2BR... how much does that cost? Since we know owners get billed $200-$400 for 1.5 housekeeping charges via MFs, I'd say $100/night is pretty optimistic. So if Starwood charges $100/night for 7 nights what's left to the HOA after this rental is a big ZERO. Note that Starwood made quite a bit of money on it though...

The misunderstanding is who benefits from the housekeeping charges.
Dan assumes Starwood benefits. You assume the HOA does.
Have I stated this correctly?

DanCali is against any major amount being assumed and deducted from the rent for rental costs and housekeeping because, in his mind, it perpetuates the delinquency.

The way I stated it is that commissions and housekeeping charges go to Starwood and the remainder covers delinquencies. I also argued that there is no "remainder" in most cases.

I believe Jarta is focusing on a technicality that net funds after commissions first go to the HOA. The HOA then pays the management company (Starwood) for housekeeping and the net is used to cover the delinquent account. This is an accounting issue which changes nothing...

If my interpretation of what jarta said is correct it's the same result... Starwood ends up with the housekeeping costs (whether or not those funds are parked at the HOA in the interim) and the "remainder" is used to cover delinquencies.

The bottom line in is that after a 50% commission and 7 housekeeping charges there isn't much left over, if anything. Jarta and I agree to disagree on this, but I also provided a simple numerical example to illustrate my argument... Housekeeping charges for a 2BR villa may be in fact more than $100, but as jarta said we don't really know this. We also don't know if commissions are 50%, but Starwood used to charge owners 50% on rentals.

And I am not against deducting rental commissions and housekeeping charges- people/companies should get paid for a service they provide. But is the the best "solution"??? Why rent daily instead of weekly? Why 7 housekeeping charges? Can we get creative with Starpoints in any way? Like I said before - almost anything is better than $0...

What I want if for us to understand that in the current situation delinquencies are covered only after a (hefty) rental commission that benefits Starwood and 7 housekeeping charges that benefit Starwood. I think that even jarta agrees with this. I also think the current arrangement will lead to the destruction of some resorts because I don't believe this helps cover delinquencies.

People can use their own numbers and will probably reach the same conclusion I did - i.e., Starwood gets most or all of the rental revenue. This is not a good solution to the delinquency problem.
 
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FredM, ... "The misunderstanding is who benefits from the housekeeping charges. Dan assumes Starwood benefits. You assume the HOA does.
Have I stated this correctly?"

Yes.

But, it's not the only problem. DanCali is against any major amount being assumed and deducted from the rent for rental costs and housekeeping because, in his mind, it perpetuates the delinquency.

I assume that the HOA passes the rental cost on to Starwood. It may be 50% of the rent; it may be less. Neither Dan nor I know.

I assume that the HOA keeps the housekeeping costs of salaries and materials because that is a HOA expense in the budget. But, I do not know for sure. It seems like a simple accounting allocation. Any other allocation really seems quite improper. (My experience as a HOA board member indicates that, even if for only insurance purposes, the employees working at a property are HOA, not management company, employees.) But, likewise, Dan does not know that Starwood gets any housekeeping fees. ... eom

I agree. We don't know any of it.
Not how much the rental fee is.
Not how much the rental amount is.
Not how housekeeping is charged, or allocated.

For anyone to be making assertions (accusations) without this information is irresponsible.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems there's a great deal we don't know and which we should try to discover. For instance, we are uncertain of:

1. The cost of the daily cleaning for Studio/1Bed/2Bed? (I believe this is different at each resort, based on the charges for optional extra cleanings.)

2. Does the revenue for the cleaning go to the HOA, which then pays Starwood, or directly to Starwood? Keep in mind that the renter pays Starwood. Jarta's comment makes sense to me:

The landlord, by statute, is the HOA. The rent goes to the HOA. The HOA pays Starwood for its rental costs. The HOA keeps the housekeeping cost. The delinquent account gets credited for the net rent.

3. Does Starwood (ever) rent the unit at a price less than the cost of daily cleaning + Starwood commission? (I certainly hope not). Are they restricted to renting at any price?

4. What is the Starwood rental commission? (50%?)

5. Is Starwood's rental commission net after direct costs (such as cleaning) or before such costs? (I assume it's based on gross revenue, before costs).

6. Does Starwood pay the HOA for cleanings for stays on StarPoints / Cash and Points?

7. Does Starwood pay the HOA any fees for rental for stays on StarPoints / Cash and Points? Does Starwood then get a 50% commission of such fees? (I suspect so)
 
I agree. We don't know any of it.
Not how much the rental fee is.
Not how much the rental amount is.
Not how housekeeping is charged, or allocated.

For anyone to be making assertions (accusations) without this information is irresponsible.

Yes, there is much we don't know. However, I tried to be conservative in my examples (e.g. only $100 to clean a 2BR condo) and based them on whatever information I did know (e.g. owners used to pay 50% rental commissions when there was a rental program). I'd actually classify that as responsible rather than irresponsible...

On top of that, I have stressed several times that was I was saying was based on conjectures and educated guesses. I also invited people who had better information (including SVO people who probably read these threads) to correct my assumptions. I would be happy to find out that I am totally off base and that there is a substantial amount of rental revenues left over to cover delinquencies.

What is irresponsible is how Starwood raised MFs through the years... and on this topic I can provide numbers based on facts, not just conjectures (but they can also be found in other threads).
 
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I agree. We don't know any of it.
Not how much the rental fee is.
Not how much the rental amount is.
Not how housekeeping is charged, or allocated.

For anyone to be making assertions (accusations) without this information is irresponsible.

I'd agree, except it's impossible to get this data from Starwood. We are deliberately kept in the dark. I've personally asked about rental income and gotten nothing back but a canned response re delinquencies. I've personally asked for an email address to contact my HOA, and Starwood has repeatedly denied me this information.

How are we to gather information if no one will respond to us? Not allowing us to contact our representatives is, in my opinion, is not only irresponsible, but unethical.
 
rickandcindy23, ... "

I doubt it is an official site. Here is the netsol "whois" information for the domain name "broadway-plantation.com."

"Current Registrar: PSI-USA, INC. DBA DOMAIN ROBOT
IP Address: 72.233.126.204 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)
IP Location: US(UNITED STATES)-TEXAS-PLANO"

In fact the domain name is currently listed for sale. It may now be a dead link or a cybersquatter hoping to make money on the domain name by reserving it and, then, selling it. ... eom
 
I'd agree, except it's impossible to get this data from Starwood. We are deliberately kept in the dark. I've personally asked about rental income and gotten nothing back but a canned response re delinquencies. I've personally asked for an email address to contact my HOA, and Starwood has repeatedly denied me this information.

How are we to gather information if no one will respond to us? Not allowing us to contact our representatives is, in my opinion, is not only irresponsible, but unethical.

Lisa, I don't know how else to say this. I have said it before, without effect. So, please forgive the lengthy response.
It is not directed toward you, but to the discussion at large.

I will use the WKORV and its Governing Documents as my point of reference.

Like it or not, all owners agreed to invest the HOA BOD with complete authority to approve budgets, and manage them.
They alone can decide on special assessments, and any other financial matters which are required to run the resort.

Individual owners do not have a "right" to all the information which is considered when the BOD makes a decision. That is their job.
It is the only way an association can be run.

It is beyond my comprehension to understand how an individual owner would expect to receive the information necessary to determine the adequacy of board decisions.

An owner may not like the end result of the decisions the BOD makes. That does not somehow give the owner a right to demand the information they deem necessary to be comfortable with it. Or, to bless the adequacy of the decision.

How is the Board to respond to the myriad of individual questions owners may have? Never mind carry on a dialog which would result from never ending questions posed by the information itself. It is literally impossible. Nor, would all interested parties derive the same conclusion from the same information.

No matter how you cut it, it comes down to some number of individuals empowered to make those decisions to make them.

Yes, the BOD has a fiduciary responsible to the membership at large. If the membership is dissatisfied with the performance of the BOD, it can be replaced. So can the resort manager. The BOD will only respond to a majority of the membership. It must be so.

I implore you consider the reality of this.
The ONLY way you will have the opportunity to judge the actions of the BOD is to solicit and obtain a majority of the owners to: 1) amend the vacation plan declaration and by-laws, and/or 2) replace the BOD and the manager.

In so doing you can then assume the responsibility of appointing a new BOD and manager, re-writing that portion of the governing documents which may be modified (as it cannot be thrown out altogether), and then define how the new BOD is to report to the general membership.

The first step is to contact all owners.
Despite statements made to the contrary, the complete and accurate member list, including current mailing address, is available to any owner upon written request.
Certain procedural requirements must be satisfied, but they are a matter of form that relate to assurance that the list will be used for membership related business and not commercial purposes.
The requesting member will be charged a copy fee for the list.

At the end of the day, this all comes down to a crisis of confidence. No amount of information will satisfy some on this board. There will always be questions about motive, etc.

There can be no half measures. Once a campaign begins to demand that the BOD be responsible to other than their own good judgment, there is no other alternative but to replace it.
That also means replacing Starwood. The resort will become independent.

Having been an elected official of a Bay Area municipality, I can tell you with some conviction who is doing whom a favor by serving on an elected board. One should be careful to understand that.

I can also tell you that it is possible to change the status quo, if need be. It does take resiliency, stamina, organization, and a certain amount of money.

Tough talk won't do it. Especially when it is repetitive, to the same choir of 50 like minded folk.
Try it on 5000 folks who do not immediately see the advantage of having Starwood's name removed from the resort. The tiring and frustrating exercise of explaining the obvious to those who do not see the campaign point of view will, if nothing else, gain an appreciation of what the BOD must think of all who criticize and demean their efforts and intentions.

Every journey begins with a first step.
The message must be constructed and distributed to ~10,000 owners. Any thought to what the message would be, exactly?

Including postage and materials, say $1 per owner for initial distribution. A hundred passionate volunteers pony up $100 each. Each is responsible for getting 50 out of 100 owners to sign a petition. The effort is in business.

All the rest of what is going on here is getting boring.
 
FredM ... Bravo! Well stated. Every word of it! And, yes, it can be done. ... eom
 
Is this King David?

Individual owners do not have a "right" to all the information which is considered when the BOD makes a decision. That is their job.
It is the only way an association can be run.

I agree with the vast majority of your post, but not this paragraph. What information exactly are owners barred from seeing? Having served on Boards we have always assumed and been told, as well as read in all sorts of regulations and bylaws, that ALL Association operating and Board documents are open to inspection by the owners. We serve FOR them as their representatives. Anything we do, anything we purchase, any documents we sign - they are all subject to review by the owners. They can't demand changes to our choices - except by voting us out - but they have every right to see the basis for it, any contracts signed and so forth. And of course the financial records are to made available to any owner on reasonable demand.

This isn't a monarchy - it is a sitting Board of Directors. They answer to the owners who supposedly voted them on and that they are supposed to represent. They do not answer to the Management - if they do something is seriously out of whack.
 
Right on, John! The assumption that a BOD of an HOA doesn't have to defend decisions they make is nonsense. Certainly, once a decision is made, it is done, but at least in smaller resorts we can vote the HOA board members out, when and if we don't like what they do. When a big company IS the governing board, what do we have as owners except big maintenance fee bills and assessments, with no reasoning behind them? They owe it to the owners to communicate the truth. Stating in a maintenance fee bill that others aren't paying, so the fees are going up, that is just too simple. I want to know what efforts are being made to force those payments. I want to know whether rental income is helping our bottomline, or if Starwood just keeps it all. I want to know what Starwood's responsbility is to US, as owners.

Fred, and this isn't intended to sound rude at all, but if you are tired of the conversation, you don't have to keep on reading it. Nor do you need to keep on reading, Jarta.
 
timeos, ... You are close to correct. Fred said no right to see all information considered when a BOD makes a decision. He is right. Also, please see the exceptions at the end of the statute. Maybe you two are actually saying the same thing.

In Florida, for example, after the decision is made, however, the decision and the information concerning the decision becomes an official record that must be made available under section 718.111(12)(c):

"(c) The official records of the association are open to inspection by any association member or the authorized representative of such member at all reasonable times. The right to inspect the records includes the right to make or obtain copies, at the reasonable expense, if any, of the association member. The association may adopt reasonable rules regarding the frequency, time, location, notice, and manner of record inspections and copying. The failure of an association to provide the records within 10 working days after receipt of a written request shall create a rebuttable presumption that the association willfully failed to comply with this paragraph. A unit owner who is denied access to official records is entitled to the actual damages or minimum damages for the association's willful failure to comply with this paragraph. The minimum damages shall be $50 per calendar day up to 10 days, the calculation to begin on the 11th working day after receipt of the written request. The failure to permit inspection of the association records as provided herein entitles any person prevailing in an enforcement action to recover reasonable attorney's fees from the person in control of the records who, directly or indirectly, knowingly denied access to the records for inspection. Any person who knowingly or intentionally defaces or destroys accounting records that are required by this chapter, or knowingly or intentionally fails to create or maintain accounting records that are required by this chapter, is personally subject to a civil penalty pursuant to s. 718.501(1)(d). The association shall maintain an adequate number of copies of the declaration, articles of incorporation, bylaws, and rules, and all amendments to each of the foregoing, as well as the question and answer sheet provided for in s. 718.504 and year-end financial information required in this section on the condominium property to ensure their availability to unit owners and prospective purchasers, and may charge its actual costs for preparing and furnishing these documents to those requesting the same. Notwithstanding the provisions of this paragraph, the following records shall not be accessible to unit owners:

1. Any record protected by the lawyer-client privilege as described in s. 90.502; and any record protected by the work-product privilege, including any record prepared by an association attorney or prepared at the attorney's express direction; which reflects a mental impression, conclusion, litigation strategy, or legal theory of the attorney or the association, and which was prepared exclusively for civil or criminal litigation or for adversarial administrative proceedings, or which was prepared in anticipation of imminent civil or criminal litigation or imminent adversarial administrative proceedings until the conclusion of the litigation or adversarial administrative proceedings.

2. Information obtained by an association in connection with the approval of the lease, sale, or other transfer of a unit.

3. Medical records of unit owners.

4. Social security numbers, driver's license numbers, credit card numbers, and other personal identifying information of any person"

Public records include names and mailing addresses and, if known, telephone numbers of owners. Also, bids for contracts and contracts let. Also, rental records when the association is acting as rental agent of properties.

Meetings are to be open unless when they discuss litigation, contracts or personnel.

Here's the link for anyone interested:

http://www.flsenate.gov/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=ch0718/ch0718.htm

Please note that the records are "open to inspection" only. They are not to be removed and are subject to reasonable limitations by the board. So, ask away for the materials you want to inspect. The statutes grant you a right to inspect documents (and a right to receive the budget and notice of the meeting). The statutes do not grant you a right to an explanation from the HOA of every detail of the operations of the resort. ... eom
 
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Individual owners do not have a "right" to all the information which is considered when the BOD makes a decision. That is their job. It is the only way an association can be run.

It is beyond my comprehension to understand how an individual owner would expect to receive the information necessary to determine the adequacy of board decisions.

An owner may not like the end result of the decisions the BOD makes. That does not somehow give the owner a right to demand the information they deem necessary to be comfortable with it. Or, to bless the adequacy of the decision.

Being answerable to your constituency is the entire POINT of a representative form of government. Answering their concerns, defending their positions even if it angers some people, communicating with the folks they were elected to represent -- these are all inherent responsibilities of our elected leaders whether they are on an HOA board or US Congress. In a true representative form of government, we don't have to bless the adequacy of our leader's decisions because we have something better -- the power to vote them out of office. Starwood has stripped us of that power because they do not allow contested elections and because they hand pick the people who appear on the ballot.

I am flabbergasted that you believe that people without a voice should just sit back and shrug their shoulders because "that is what we signed up for." I have news for you: That is NOT what I signed up for. WKORV/N is supposed to have an HOA. That is a HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATION, created for the sole purpose of representing the owners. You know and I know that Starwood does not have a real HOA, in the sense that they represent the Owners. The developer installed the first board and that board has then hand-picked their successors. In short, they represent STARWOOD. The voters at North were not even supplied with the board member's names in the last proxy, let alone their ages, occupations, or platforms. It is a sham election. The way they've controlled the HOA is unethical and indefensible.

Until my HOA board is freely elected, then I do not accept that I "willingly" signed on to allow them to govern on my behalf and should just sit down and shut up.

Bottom line: If our leaders are not answerable to us, if they are not there to represent our interests and to hear our concerns, then we don't have a representative form of government at all; we have an autocracy.
 
anything we purchase, any documents we sign - they are all subject to review by the owners. They can't demand changes to our choices - except by voting us out - but they have every right to see the basis for it, any contracts signed and so forth. And of course the financial records are to made available to any owner on reasonable demand.

I agree. And, such documents should be made available, properly requested.

Then what? Requests for the detail schedule of line items? Historical trends? Requests for why a Board member agreed with a staff recommendation based on prior experience with a vendor? Why the rental rate was not $2, instead of $1.50? Why the collective judgment of the Board decided on a certain time frame before foreclosing on an non-performing owner?

Access to non-confidential documents is one thing. Expecting satisfying answers to the questions they raise is another, entirely. The decision making process belongs to the board. It cannot be otherwise.

I say again, there is a crisis of confidence. The only way that will be washed away, is to replace the board.
Of course, no guarantee that will change the bottom line. But, it may. And, that may be a good thing. Then again, it may be fiscally imprudent. Judgment.

If you agree with most I have said (you said you did), then we really do not disagree.
 
Bottom line: If our leaders are not answerable to us, if they are not there to represent our interests and to hear our concerns, then we don't have a representative form of government at all; we have an autocracy.


Lisa, that is EXACTLY what a BOD is, while they are serving.
It is not a representative form of government.

Yes, they have a fiduciary responsibility. Unless, and until, they have violated that responsibility, it is their job to perform it.

You and every other owner can vote them out. But, I suggest that if they have violated their fiduciary responsibility voting them out is letting them off too lightly. They have personal liability. That is a grave responsibility. One that is performed as a service to the owners at large.

It is no different in a publicly held company.
The BOD is responsible to the shareholders. But, only the shareholders, at large.
Take overs are required to change the board to the liking of the stakeholder.
Timeshare owners have the same right. I already suggested a way to go about it.
 
Lisa, that is EXACTLY what a BOD is, while they are serving.It is not a representative form of government....You and every other member can vote them out. But, I suggest that if they have violated their fiduciary responsibility voting them out is letting them off too lightly.

We elect someone to represent our interests, and they vote on our behalf. That is the very definition of a representative form of government. Our HOA violates the spirit of the law that requires owner representation if not the letter of the law.

How can we possibly vote someone out when we don't even know the name of the person to vote out? We have no information on how anyone voted. We don't know anything except that our MFs are spiraling out of control.

Other HOAs have newsletters, websites, and even (gasp!) emails where you can contact your rep. We have an entire corporate department devoted to HOAs and the best we can get is a canned response, if ANYTHING.

And how can we possibly make a case that they are violating their fiduciary reponsibility when you say we're not supposed to be able to participate and demand answers?
 
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We elect someone to represent our interests, and they vote on our behalf. That is the very definition of a representative form of government. Our HOA violates the spirit of the law that requires owner representation if not the letter of the law.

How can we possibly vote someone out when we don't even know the name of the person to vote out? We have no information on how anyone voted. We don't know anything except that our MFs are spiraling out of control.

Other HOAs have newsletters, websites, and even (gasp!) emails where you can contact your rep. We have an entire corporate department devoted to HOAs and the best we can get is a canned response, if ANYTHING.

And how can we possibly make a case that they are violating their fiduciary reponsibility when you say we're not supposed to be able to participate and demand answers?

I will repeat what I have already said:

"I implore you consider the reality of this.
The ONLY way you will have the opportunity to judge the actions of the BOD is to solicit and obtain a majority of the owners to: 1) amend the vacation plan declaration and by-laws, and/or 2) replace the BOD and the manager."


"At the end of the day, this all comes down to a crisis of confidence. No amount of information will satisfy some on this board. There will always be questions about motive, etc.

There can be no half measures. Once a campaign begins to demand that the BOD be responsible to other than their own good judgment, there is no other alternative but to replace it.
That also means replacing Starwood. The resort will become independent."
 
Fred, and this isn't intended to sound rude at all, but if you are tired of the conversation, you don't have to keep on reading it.

No, I don't. I choose to read, and participate.

I am sorry if my comments go against the grain. They are intended to bring what I believe to be an uncomfortable truth to the discussion.

I understand those who prefer be told what they wish to hear, rather then what they need to know.

The frustration over this issue is palatable.
Hopefully, you will notice that I am not defending the status quo. If anything, I am suggesting a genuine course of action that can actually produce a result. In this respect, my comments are more militant than most.

The difference in my position is that it requires one to actually consider what can be done about it. And, yes, debunk misconceptions about democracy and representative government.

I find it curious there are plenty of back slapping "atta boys"
for 'victim" speeches, and not much regard for the empowering ones.

Of course, empowerment requires action. "Power to the people" slogans are a good attention-getter. To be effective, it is a really good idea to know what the viable courses of action are. A good place to start is understanding where we are. Not where we wish we were.

Everyone is entitled to vent frustration and anger over a set of circumstances. 1,2, 10 times. After a very long while one wonders what the point is.

Thought I would bring that to the conversation.
 
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Fredm,

I disagree with you that replacing BOD means replacing Starwood. Starwood (corporation, not timeshare unit) seems fine having Sheraton/Westin names on thousands of hotels it doesn't own or control. I see no problem why Starwood can not still be management company while HOA BOD being elected by the owners. Marriott seems to be perfectly fine with owner controlled HOA at its resorts as long as resorts can maintain certain quality level. I personally believe it would be stupid for Starwood to walk out of generous management contract. Of course we don't know that but there is no way to know for certain unless we replace the current board. Heck it may even turned out that the current HOA board does not need to be replaced if we force them to open a dialog with owners and they start working together with us owners to find solution for delinquencies/uncontrolled MF raises.



There can be no half measures. Once a campaign begins to demand that the BOD be responsible to other than their own good judgment, there is no other alternative but to replace it.
That also means replacing Starwood. The resort will become independent."
 
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