Dave Ramsey doesn't like timeshares

[ace2000]

I guess you think buying new cars are stupid too?

Ok, ok, ok... a new car is NOT worth 10% of it's value the moment you sign the paperwork. Yes, it's worth less... but nowhere near the 10% of a timeshare purchase - bad analogy.

If anyone is offended about calling a developer purchase 'foolish', I apologize. I know many are getting value, despite paying mega-dollars for their unit.

Dave Ramsey said it's a 'bad idea'... maybe I should have stuck with that phrase instead. sorry.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Cars & Timeshares Are Not The Same.

I guess you think buying new cars are stupid too?

Some cars are new. Other cars are used.

With timeshares, it's different.

All timeshares are used-used-used. Other people have already stayed there previously before the owner shows up & checks in, mox nix whether the owner bought at full freight from a timeshare company or paid peanuts resale.

There is no such thing as a new timeshare.

Buy timeshares resale. Save thousands of dollars for exactly the same thing as full freight, or the equivalent, or something even better.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[ace2000]

What advice is that, exactly? Where do you see me advising that everyone needs to buy timeshares in the exact same way I did? Where do you see me advising that any other way is worthy of insult? Where do you see me advising anything at all?!?!

All I did was respond to the topic of the thread which is that Dave Ramsey thinks timeshares are not a good investment. (They're not, in his book, no matter which way they're puchased.) And I would have stopped there if you hadn't decided that this thread was one more opportunity to sidetrack into insulting developer-purchasers.

Here's my statement... Buying a timeshare purchase from the developer, when it is worth 10% of its value the moment you sign the paperwork is a 'bad idea'.

Sorry, you want to make an issue about it and twist my statement into something that it was not intended to be... If you disagree with my statement about a developer purchase, state your facts, so everyone can be informed please.

If Dave Ramsey is stating that a resale purchase is a bad idea and specifically stated it that way, can you share a quote with us?

 

[davewasbaloo]

Agreed Dashulak. However in some cases it pays off - capital projects would never get built based on savings and surpluses.

Not having debt can be a solid decision (especially when it comes to luxuries). But there are some exceptions:

1. My BIL left school with no qualifications at 16. He was lucky and a hard worker, and he managed to be able to get a job on a building site, and eventually trained to drive a number of speciality construction vehicles. His earnings at the age of 25 where greater than mine at the same age (despite being a post grad). But he had been working for nearly 10 years compared to my 3). Now he is feeling the pinch in this climate as his work has been cut back. He is at a ceiling in terms of hourly wages, and now is working 1 - 2/3s the amount he used to. There is a demand for national trainers and assessors in his field and the average earning is 5 times a year more than he was earning before the cut backs (or the same as I was on in my last role). To train and qualify will cost him about 5% of his potential salary, and he has a job offer once he qualifies. He does not want go into debt to train (whereas I did for my education) and will be crying the blues for a long time that he cannot afford to go anywhere or do anything. Personally I have advised him to take out a lone.

2. In our case, I worked a business case where our overheads for MVCI would be about the same for vacations as the previous 5 years (buying direct and financing). Sure, if I wanted MVCI in florida, I could buy cheaper, but that need meet our needs. Overall, with finance, we are on top, and we can do it now rather than waiting several years to buy in (washers and driers are invaluable with small kids). so it worked for us.

But every case is different.

 

[SueDonJ]

Some cars are new. Other cars are used.

With timeshares, it's different.

All timeshares are used-used-used. Other people have already stayed there previously before the owner shows up & checks in, mox nix whether the owner bought at full freight from a timeshare company or paid peanuts resale.

There is no such thing as a new timeshare.

Buy timeshares resale. Save thousands of dollars for exactly the same thing as full freight, or the equivalent, or something even better.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Alan, somebody gets to stay in a brand-new timeshare, and your new car is only new the first time you drive it. But of course, timeshares devalue much quicker and much steeper than cars or any other thing you can think of.

If the only consideration is the upfront dollar value, then nobody can say that buying developer-direct is the way to go. Not even me. But for folks like me who have other considerations (which have been done to death on these boards, and which I'm not going into now,) resale-purchases are not the only option.

It would be nice if folks here would remember that before they go insulting developer-purchasers at every opportunity.

What is it you say? YMMV, and Is This A Great Country, or What?

 

[tombo]

I guess you think buying new cars are stupid too? I do this, knowing that once I drive my car out of the garage, it has lost significant value. But I have more rights if it goes wrong, it is to my specification, and I do a lot of miles so need reliabiltiy. To me it is good value. If my needs were to use it a few miles each day and I did not care much about make, model and colour, then a 2nd hand car would work just fine. TS is similar.

Timeshare is not similar. A new car has never been owned or driven (except on test drives) by anyone other than you. A one owner car can bring a little higher resale. A used car might have dings, dents, high mileage, engine problems, no warranty left. A new car comes with a new car warranty and a new car smell. You never know how a used car was driven or maintained. A new car will be driven only by you and if you maintain it well and don't hot rod it, the auto should last longer. A new and used car are two different things.

A developer sold timeshare is IDENTICAL to a RESALE timeshare. You stay in the same rooms whether you buy resale or retail. You swim in the same pool. If you buy garden view from the developer and another buys Ocean front resale (for 1/3 or less the price paid for the garden view), you will be staying in a lower quality room than the guy who bought resale, and you paid more for less. If the resale purchase is for a platinum week for 1/2 what you paid for a gold developer week, the resale purchaser has a better week to use each and every year than the developer purchaser owns, and they own it for 1000's less.

Once you become an owner, you are the owner of a resale week no matter whether you purchased from the developer or not. When you go to sell your week you will not get one dollar more whether you originally purchased resale or retail, because either way you are selling the identical thing.

 

[davewasbaloo]

There is no such thing as a new timeshare.

Buy timeshares resale. Save thousands of dollars for exactly the same thing as full freight, or the equivalent, or something even better.

But it is down to that scheme's economics. In the case of when we bought in Paris, there was a low supply and high demand. It meant that there was very little savings to be had in buying resale. £2000 ($3000) was worth it for a free year's Interval, 5 years of A/Cs, Trade for points every year etc.

Sure, if it was like the older properties in the US, we would have bought resale. Also, in France, there are special assurances to control the increase of maintanence fees!

 

[davewasbaloo]

Alan, somebody gets to stay in a brand-new timeshare, and your new car is only new the first time you drive it. But of course, timeshares devalue much quicker and much steeper than cars or any other thing you can think of.

If the only consideration is the upfront dollar value, then nobody can say that buying developer-direct is the way to go. Not even me. But for folks like me who have other considerations (which have been done to death on these boards, and which I'm not going into now,) resale-purchases are not the only option.

It would be nice if folks here would remember that before they go insulting developer-purchasers at every opportunity.

What is it you say? YMMV, and Is This A Great Country, or What?

Without an original buyer, there would not be resale available.

 

[RandR]

Enough already

Can we please stop the argument of resale vs direct? This has been done way too many times. Just agree to disagree.

 

[JimC]

Buying a timeshare from the developer or from the time share companies is foolish - anyone disagree? Good... we all agree with Dave and Susie then....

I disagree with that as an absolute fact. In many situations I agree wholeheartedly. However, there are too many variables, such as the resale/direct price difference, inventory available, value of incentives, and the like to simply flat out state that developer purchases are wrong all of the time.

 

[AwayWeGo]

I Know Somebody Who Actually Stayed In A New Timeshare Unit 1 Time.

Alan, somebody gets to stay in a brand-new timeshare, and your new car is only new the first time you drive it.

Ditto the timeshare unit. It's only new the 1st time somebody stays in it. After that, it's used-used-used any way you shake it, same as that formerly new car that's been driven a few times.

There's no way around it -- after people have been staying in a new timeshare unit, it's no longer new. Newish, maybe. Like new, possibly. Near new, sure. But used-used-used all the same.

I know somebody who once got to stay in a truly new timeshare unit -- the building had just been completed & nobody had ever stayed in that timeshare unit before. The man & his family were the very 1st occupants in a brand-new, never-before-stayed-in timeshare unit. After they checked out, everybody else who checked in to that same unit was enjoying a timeshare that was used-used-used -- not that there's anything wrong with that, just who wants to pay a new price for a used item? Not me.

As it happens, the family who stayed in that (rare) new timeshare unit checked in there on RCI exchange. People who stayed there after that -- the owners & the renters & the other exchangers mox nix -- were all staying in a non-new timeshare unit.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[SueDonJ]

Can we please stop the argument of resale vs direct? This has been done way too many times. Just agree to disagree.

But I don't disagree. For some folks in some situations, developer is the way to go. For other folks in other situations, resale is the way to go. Neither is more right or wrong. The developer- v. resale-purchase discussion isn't a bad discussion to have, and it's not even a problem if it comes up frequently because there are always new folks here who might not have knowledge of prior threads.

What I'd like to see stop is the infiltration of the discussion into every thread which has timeshare pricing as a tangent of the main idea, and the ever-present insults toward developer-purchasers in every one of the threads. That's the problem.

 

[davewasbaloo]

Lol, I actually enjoy the debate. And I agree, TS is not for everyone, but can be a good deal (like for us). Developer works well for new resorts, resale works well for older resorts or flooded markets (e.g. Orlando, Hilton Head etc. - why would anyone want to go to HHI anyway, I just don't get the appeal ;-)

But I do not think I am an idiot for buying from the developer and am trying to explain why. Our next purchase will be resale (unless Dubai or Tuscany do ever take off, then we would likely buy developer)

 

[RandR]

Sue, I was going more for the fact that there are some people who will just never agree that buying direct is the way to go for anyone under any circumstances. (Disclaimer: I bought resale.) The interesting thing will be if Marriott ever does put in a points system (I know, not likely) and gives direct buyers an edge like they presently do with multi-week buyers. Boy would the attitudes change then.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Thrashing Out The Everlasting Thorny Issues On T. U. G. - B. B. S.

Can we please stop the argument of resale vs direct?

Those who dislike discussions of resale or full-freight are going to hate ROFR = ROFL.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[ace2000]

What I'd like to see stop is the infiltration of the discussion into every thread which has timeshare pricing as a tangent of the main idea, and the ever-present insults toward developer-purchasers in every one of the threads. That's the problem.

Again, you're twisting what I've been saying into something that it is not. This is a forum to get advice about timeshares. Therefore, members can feel free to post their thoughts.

Please stop using the words 'insults' and 'every thread' when you know that is not true and is a major exaggeration on your part. You're taking the discussion way off-topic.

Let's agree to take any further discussion offline and send PMs - please.

I've given my thoughts and I stand by my statements... so long folks.

 

[SueDonJ]

... why would anyone want to go to HHI anyway, I just don't get the appeal ;-) ...

Aaaarrrrgggghhhh. A dagger to my heart.

 

[RandR]

Dave, are they talking about building in those two places?

Our next purchase will be resale (unless Dubai or Tuscany do ever take off, then we would likely buy developer)

 

[RandR]

I have wondered what ROFL stands for.

Those who dislike discussions of resale or full-freight are going to hate ROFR = ROFL.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

I'm surprised this thread is getting so much activity.....

 

[davewasbaloo]

Aaaarrrrgggghhhh. A dagger to my heart.

For me there is very little appeal, but I wanted to use this as an example that not everything is right for everyone! If it were driveable, it would be much more attractive (I feel this way about Palm Springs too).

Others might say they would never want own in the old beet fields near Disneyland, 25 miles from central Paris!

My winking smiley was there for a reason.

 

[SueDonJ]

Again, you're twisting what I've been saying into something that it is not. This is a forum to get advice about timeshares. Therefore, members can feel free to post their thoughts.

Please stop using the words 'insults' and 'every thread' when you know that is not true and is a major exaggeration on your part. You're taking the discussion way off-topic.

Let's agree to take any further discussion offline and send PMs - please.

I've given my thoughts and I stand by my statements... so long folks.

How about you just apologize for calling my decision which works for me, "foolish", and we'll call it a day?

 

[AwayWeGo]

R. O. F. R. = R. O. F. L.

I have wondered what ROFL stands for.

ROFL = Rolling On The Floor Laughing, as in . . .

:rofl:​

ROFLMAO = Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ankles Off.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[davewasbaloo]

Dave, are they talking about building in those two places?

Before the downturn, they were on the cards after Cancun.

 

[ace2000]

How about you just apologize for calling my decision which works for me, "foolish", and we'll call it a day?

Agreed, I apologize...