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Major Changes In Marriott Rewards

thinze3

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It's OK Terry, they'll make it all up to you with the revamped, Marriott direct purchaser enhanced, reservation system that's coming out any day now.:rolleyes:

Charles


NO. But what is OK, is the fact that my MLE developer purchased unit traded fairly easily into a 2BR KoOlina for next summer! (Most likely scenario is that there are plenty of units coming online there soon.)

Maybe next time I'll give the old Florida Club a try. Book Ocean Pointe in the winter and rent it out. :rolleyes:


Terry
 

pacheco18

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Wow
Timing is everything

Two weeks ago I booked a 250K package for next September!!!
Rome Grand FLora and air miles
Am I glad I did!
 

GetawaysRus

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OK, they change-uh the rules, so it will be necessary to reevaluate how we play-uh the game. The game is still to maximize the benefit you get, even if the points have been devalued.

In the past, many have made use of the Travel Awards (7 night stay + airline miles). Does this make as much sense now?

I currently carry both a Marriott Rewards VISA card and a Starwood AMEX card. One nice benefit of the Starwood card is that you can (at least for now...) convert 20,000 Starwood points into 25,000 airline miles on many airlines. But remember that, when you take a Marriott Travel Award package, it is one Marriott point that you are using to get one airline mile.

So, does it make sense for me to continue charging as much on my Marriott Rewards VISA, since it appears that the cost of the Travel Packages has gone up? This has forced me in the past to make 7-night hotel reservations at some locations where I might have been content with a somewhat shorter stay.

Here is a new and different strategy:
If a location that I wish to visit is not really one that would support a full 7 night stay (i.e., there's not enough to do there to keep me interested for 7 days), would it be better to book a 5-night stay. This would cost me 4 nights of Marriott Reward points and I'd get the 5th night "free." I could switch my credit card usage pattern more towards the Starwood AMEX card and use my Marriott-branded VISA card far less. That would allow me to accumulate Starwood points, which I could convert to airline miles and use towards airline awards.

What do you points mavens out there think of this? What other new strategies for use of points make sense to others?
 

CA Richard

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Just a couple observations for what they're worth:

Re the Marriott VISA: I can not understand why someone no longer thinks this is a good card to use. I still see it as my most valuable card. I'm earning more points than ever these days. I use it for everything and earn thousands of points every month. Inflation raises the cost of gas and groceries and I earn more points. Room rates are up and I earn more points. With the new +50% bonus for Platinum members I will earn even more points. The new Premier VISA earns 5x points at Marriott properties instead of the 3x points that the old card earned, in addition to 2x points for travel and dining. The new card gives credit for 15 nights and Marriott recently changed it's policy to give credit for nights at your home resort so Platinum is easier than ever to reach if you own a couple Marriott timeshares and travel a little for work as I do. Since we're earning all these points so much more easily, it makes perfect sense that they would require more points for hotel stays. The way I look at it is that I'm still getting everything I was getting before - rooms cost more points but i'm earning a lot more points so it seems to be about a wash. Kind of like wages - you get a raise and make more money but the cost of things go up and you're able to buy about the same things you bought the year before.

The second issue is points trading value of timeshares. This is where the devaluation of points is really going to hurt. Personnally, I've never thought trading your unit for points was a good idea anyway, and this will just make it worse. I remain a firm believer that you should, with very few exceptions, only buy a timeshare where you will actually use it. This recent adjustment just reinforces that.

But I would like to pass on a recent interesting sales tactic I experienced at the Grand Chateau during an "owner update" sales tour earlier this year. I bought our GC unit preconstruction (like most people, my one developer purchase before I discovered resale) and it carries a trading point value of 90,000 points. As part of the purchase agreement if I agreed to buy a second unit there, the new unit would have a trading point value of 110,000 and they would also raise the trading point value on my existing unit from 90,000 to 110,000 as well to update it. I had never heard of them doing that before! I had no interest and did not purchase, but I thought the tactic was interesting and might be a valuable negotiating point for those who do buy from the developer for point trading purposes - it might be a way to get the point values up on your existing units.
 

jscboston

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I guess since so many here feel that it is OK for Marriott to devalue the points agreement that was sold when they bought a week from the developer, then I guess it will also be fine for Marriott to devalue the week you purchased. If you bought platinum you now have gold. If you bought gold you now own bronze. After all, the economy has changed, and the dollar you paid with years ago is worth less. That scenario wouldn't be fair, just as what they are currently doing isn't right. They should sell all new weeks and new points under the new rules, but they should grandfather previous points owners under the rules that existed when they purchased. Marriott will not do this of course because they already have your money and a signed contract saying they can change anything they want to change, but guaranteeing owners that they would continue to receive what they were sold would be the right thing to do.

PS I know that Marriott can't control the air line prices so that obviously would have to be adjusted. However Marriott controls 100% of what the motels charge and they should not change the number of nights you can stay at a category x resort from the number of nights you could stay when you bought. If they want to increase the number of points to stay in a resort, then they should increse the number of point you get annually to equal the value of the points when you originally purchased IMO.

There is a fundamental difference between owning a timeshare week and participating in a rewards program. When you buy a timeshare you are buying the legal right to use a particular kind of unit (season, size, etc) forever. This right is backed by a deed and by a legally binding contract. The contract prohibits the manager (Marriott in this case) or even the board from making any changes to the core usage rights. (The board can change the rules and regs, but can't make fundamental changes to the usage rights).

By contrast, hotel rewards points are a 'fake currency.' There is no legally binding contract between the member and the hotel company. Marriott can change its program, or completely eliminate it, any time they feel like it. They change the program from time to time based on supply and demand, behavior of competitors (e.g. Starwood, Hilton), etc. As for trading a timeshare week for hotel points, an owner should make a fresh decision every year whether they think it is a good deal depending on the 'points' rules at that time. Hopefully no one who bought a timeshare week from the developer did so with the assumption that the rules would never change; anyone who did is bound to be disappointed.

A corollary to this is that points-based timeshare programs (like HGVC) can never change the points that it takes to get a week at your home property. I just bought a platinum week (7000 pts) at HGVC Flamingo That will give me the right to a 2 BR unit for one week at that property from now until the end of time. They can never raise the price to 8000 points because doing that would violate my deed ownership contract. They can, however, charge more points for a week at their new property in Manhattan, as my Flamingo deed gives me no legal rights at the Manhattan property.
 

tombo

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I know that Marriott can't change a week from Platinum to Gold, it was an "imaginary scenario" I used to illustrate my point. I said that Marriott has the right to change the points values anytime they want, any way they want, and for any reason they want to. I simply was stating that it isn't right, not that it is ilegal. The right thing to do would be to grandfather in the old points values or increase the points allocated annually to give owners the same value as they used to have. There is a big difference between what is legal and what is doing right by their customer.

I have been to several Marriott presentations and every time I was showed a chart explaining how many points I would get with my purchase annually, and how many nights the points would get me at various rated hotels. I never had a sales rep state that the points would of course be less valuable in the future and get me less nights in lower rated hotels. I know sales reps lie and I didn't buy the lies, however I am sure that many people thought that they were purchasing a lifetime week with the lifetime benefit of points as it was explained to them. Even though they aren't legally bound to do so, Marriott should grandfather people into points values that existed when they purchased from Marriott. Points inflation costs should be easily covered by the inflated MF's at the resorts the owners purchased at.
 
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thinze3

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To me it is very simple. We bought Marriott timeshares that give you a set number of points every year in lieu of a 7 night stay. Now that every Marriott will require many more points for a 7 night stay (30-40% more), we should be offered a similar increase in points for our timeshares.


Terry
 

capjak

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I believe hilton did a similar thing where they increased the Timeshare to hilton honor point conversion ratio from about 10-15% and starwood gives 4* Elites a 10% boost when they trade their unit for hotel points.

Seems like Marriott should step up and do the same.
 

winger

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To me it is very simple. We bought Marriott timeshares that give you a set number of points every year in lieu of a 7 night stay. Now that every Marriott will require many more points for a 7 night stay (30-40% more), we should be offered a similar increase in points for our timeshares.


Terry
I agree. Lots of us should convey our feelings to Marriott. Any ideas how best to do this?
 

cp73

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It looks like to me that with the hotel stays there is no break in the number of nights until you hit the fourth night. Then the fifth night is free. So nights 1-3 are all at the same number of points per night and there is no break until you reserve that fourth night. Thats also a big change....
 

ondeadlin

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Sometimes I think there are people on this forum who, if Marriott came to their house, cleaned out their fridge and kicked the dog on the way out the door would immediately post on TUG, "That's OK, let me show you how valuable it is because first-class tickets to Europe cost $10,000!"

These latest "enhancements" are nothing more than a massive devaluation for those who bought developer.

There is almost no logical case to be made now for trading for points or buying for points. The value is just not there compared to the MF cost. Oh, and there's much, much less of a case for buying points as well.

The Marriott Visa card? A joke now when you compare return-on-spend to a card such as the Delta Amex.

The only people who benefit from these changes are high-stay business travelers. If you're in that class, congrats. If you're not, Marriott just worked you over.
 

dioxide45

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It looks like to me that with the hotel stays there is no break in the number of nights until you hit the fourth night. Then the fifth night is free. So nights 1-3 are all at the same number of points per night and there is no break until you reserve that fourth night. Thats also a big change....

Actually the break doesn't happen until you reserver five nights. The fifth night being free. If you only need to stay somewhere for four nights, there is no break for you.
 

pcgirl54

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I own a Marriott non points week and stayed at Marriott hotels to earn pts. I never wanted to give up a week for points so it never mattered to me. I do enjoy our Marriott week.

I just paid off my Marriott Visa (hooray) and used the last of my MAR cc pts for a mini vacation. I was thinking of closing the account. With the new changes I have my answer since it would take forever to earn enough pts for a hotel stay it is not a value to have that card.

I primarily use Amex charge card. Not all vendors take Amex.

Glad they are eliminating the stay anytime tier.
 
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Zac495

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Saying you'll never buy from Marriott or use the Marriott Visa really only hurts yourself. EVERYTHING and every program has gone up in price. Your only other option is paying for trips using a lot more cash vs. waiting longer to accumulate more points for FREE trips.

As much as I dislike it, it's still the better value. It's interesting, though, how so many people here that put down the value of points in the past are now so upset. I remember so many posts here where people stated that points are not important to them.

There are some people who bought RESALE who say points don't matter to them. There are others who bought developer either before or after finding TUG for the points. I have stated that I don't think it's worth buying directly from Marriott for points based on the fact that you can buy them directly AND that they're becoming harder and harder to use. Other smarter Tuggers point out what the cost per point vs. cost and loss of future earnings (and other such complicated financial matters).

But many Tuggers like the points - some aquire via purchasing them per year - and those people can choose to stop buying them. Those of us who deliberately bought our timeshares for points - I was told - every other year I would have enough points for a travel package, category 6/7 (just about - 220K per year - need to aquire 30 more - easy with a credit card).

So think about it - if that was the sole reason I bought it - I would vacation every other year - then I now no longer have what I bought. That doesn't happen in any other scenerio. PRICES go up - it costs more to buy gas now. If Marriott raised the price to convert points (by a reasonable margin - let's say from 100 to 150), I would understand that. I still get my every other year vacation, but I have to pay a little more for it.

It's not right. I'm going to email my salesman and see what is being said on the sales end.
 

Zac495

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I've read the new info a couple of times and it isn't entirely clear. They didn't address outstanding certificates, only outstanding reservations.

I think you need to actually make a reservation at a hotel before Jan. 15. If you make your reservation after that, it's possible you'll be required to come up with the additional points for the nights you want.

I'm sure many others are wondering the same thing. I have a reservation for March with a cert. attached from a travel package. What happens if I decide to go somewhere else? Can I use that cert for another category 5 hotel? Will I have to pay more points to switch hotels or dates?

Yikes - I have 2 certs that I haven't attached to my reservation yet. I'd better do it before January!

If only Hilton had more locations - such a good deal and easy to book.
 

aka Julie

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It's not right. I'm going to email my salesman and see what is being said on the sales end.

Please report back if you hear from him. I would love to hear the "spin" they put on this. Marriott is surely not helping the sales people during this economic downturn.

We're going to be at Grand Chateau next month. Won't seek to do a sales presentation, but if asked, we might go just for the heck of it just to see how the sales people are approaching it now.
 

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To me it is very simple. We bought Marriott timeshares that give you a set number of points every year in lieu of a 7 night stay. Now that every Marriott will require many more points for a 7 night stay (30-40% more), we should be offered a similar increase in points for our timeshares.


Terry

I agree Terry exactly what I tried to say in a previous post on this thread. But it does not matter what we (owners) think. Marriott is a business and they are going to change programs (rental, points) with little regard to the owner.

bob
 

wuv pooh

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Please report back if you hear from him. I would love to hear the "spin" they put on this. Marriott is surely not helping the sales people during this economic downturn.

There is no "spin". Marriott is taking care of the use patterns of their core business customers, not leisure customers. They believe that business people primarily want to extend their stays by one or two nights, or stay 5 nights, but rarely go for 7 nights. If you have tried to get a hotel room in Chicago or NY and had to pay $400-$600 per night for a standard room you would see the value in the points and the no blackouts.

The reality is that Hilton and Starwood already greatly devalued their points program in years past. Marriott is the last one to devalue of the majors in this cycle. They are also making it easier to earn points - I just got ~ 20,000 for a 4 night stay because of a 10,000 point bonus and the new platinum bonus for core customers will help.

When I started timesharing 8 years ago the trade for points was fair, but still not as attractive as using your week. Read about that and you could get an around the world package for 200,000 before the devaluation before this devaluation :D

Having a fixed value of points with rising maintenance fees has made the points trade very unattractive now. I would not even consider it unless I needed a quick top off for a much bigger International trip. It will be interesting to see how MVCI responds because they will need to increase the points offered or impose an additional restriction on resales if they want to get the redemptions or compete against resale.
 

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Marriott White Lies

I haven't posted about this topic yet because I am too angry. But I just received Marriott's email about how they are "improving" the Rewards system. Their average customer who just reads the email will think that Marriott is offering them a wonderful deal. They won't realize that their points just got devalued. With Marriott the truth is always in the fine print.

Here is their email:

We appreciate your business. And to prove it, we're making Marriott Rewards® even better.
Starting January 15th, say goodbye to blackout dates*. It's our way of saying "thank you for staying with us." One of many program enhancements to, well, enhance your rewards.
Plus, these new benefits are coming your way:
Redeem 4 nights, get 5th Redemption night free. Use your Marriott Rewards points to stay for 4 redemption nights and get the 5th redemption night free.
Check out the new Platinum bonus. If you're a Platinum Elite member, your bonus will increase from today's 30% to a 50% bonus on points earned during stays.
 

cp73

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Actually the break doesn't happen until you reserver five nights. The fifth night being free. If you only need to stay somewhere for four nights, there is no break for you.

Your right dioxide.....thanks
 

Steve A

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I can book 300 days out from the January cut off date and still get it at the older rates? Right?

I know this hurts, but people complained just as bitterly the last round. What I resent is the way it was presented as if it was some bonus for us. That rankled.
 

LAX Mom

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I can book 300 days out from the January cut off date and still get it at the older rates? Right?

I know this hurts, but people complained just as bitterly the last round. What I resent is the way it was presented as if it was some bonus for us. That rankled.

As I understand it (the Marriott site only talks about reservations made prior to Jan. 15 still being valid) you can redeem points prior to Jan. 15 for a travel package and then use that hotel certificate for 1 year.

So if you have a hotel cert issued prior to the change, you should be able to use it for a full year. I don't think they'll extend the expiration anymore.
 

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Marriott Rewards "enhansment"

I know Marriott must devalue the points over time to compensate for inflation. However, there were things about the old program I preferred.

I liked the travel packages, especially the Europe sampler package. I suspect this may no longer be available, or will cost considerably more. It has been 150,000 points, but will likely increase to 240,000 (6 nights at 40,000, one free) if they still offer it. That is a big jump!

I liked being able to reduce your points per night by increasing your stay to a 7 night stay. Now you only get that benefit with a 5 or 10 night stay. Anything else and you pay a premium per night.

I'm gold, not platinum with Marriott so the 50% bonus on points doesn't help me.

I've never used the "stay anytime" awards, they were too expensive for me. So that "enhancement" doesn't help me either.

I don't like the new program and will probably switch from my Marriott VISA to a card that has a cash rebate.

My sentiments exactly, I used 7 night awards in cat. 7 hotels which were 150,000 points now the cost in points is 210,000. That is a 40% increase,I don't believe that inflation justifies this much of an increase. The increase in the bonus for platinum is of no benefit to me as I am lifetime gold.
Originally when I swapped my KBC unit for points, the 110,000 points bought 7 nights, if I remember correctly, (before categories) now it will only buy 3 nights, trading for points doesn't make sense any more unless Marriott does something to make it more attractive which I am sure they won't do.
It is time to say goodbye to Marriott::wave:
 
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LAX Mom

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Originally when I swapped my KBC unit for points, the 110,000 points bought 7 nights, if I remember correctly, (before categories) now it will only buy 3 nights, trading for points doesn't make sense any more unless Marriott does something to make it more attractive which I am sure they won't do.

Trading 7 nights in a 2 bedroom villa with kitchen for 110,000 points is crazy when that 110,000 won't even get you 3 nights in a category 8, barely 3 nights in a category 7.

I recently almost bought a Marriott to trade for points every year. I'm so glad I didn't!! I bet the Marriott timeshare sale reps hate this new point structure. It really wipes out the benefit of purchasing from Marriott. With the prices on e-bay it would be very foolish to purchase from Marriott now.
 

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Don't know if this eases any of the pain, but found this on MVCI website.



We’ve created 5-night travel packages that include your hotel stay and airline miles. Travel to nearly 2,900 Marriott hotels worldwide* and choose how you get there.

For details about the Marriott Rewards program changes, please click here.

5-Night Travel Package Rewards for Marriott Vacation Club Owners

5 Nights in Hotel Category
50,000 Airline Miles
70,000 Airline Miles
100,000 Airline Miles
120,000 Airline Miles

1- 5 165,000 185,000 215,000 235,000
6 180,000 200,000 230,000 250,000
7 200,000 220,000 250,000 270,000
8 230,000 250,000 280,000 300,000

Participating Airlines (subject to change): Air Canada, Alaska Airlines, American Airlines, British Airways, Continental Airlines, Delta Air Lines, Frontier Airlines, Mexicana, Northwest, United Air Lines, US Airways, Varig Brasil, Virgin Atlantic


5 Nights in Hotel Category
35,000 Airline Miles
50,000 Airline Miles
70,000 Airline Miles
85,000 Airline Miles

1- 5 165,000 185,000 215,000 235,000
6 180,000 200,000 230,000 250,000
7 200,000 220,000 250,000 270,000
8 230,000 250,000 280,000 300,000

Participating Airlines (subject to change): Air Berlin, Air China, Air France/KLM, Alitalia, ANA, Asiana Airlines, Cathay Pacific, China Southern, Emirates, Jet Airways, LAN, Lufthansa/Miles & More, Qantas, Singapore Airlines, SN Brussels Airlines, TAP Air Portugal


5 Nights in Hotel Category
32 Credits
48 Credits
64 Credits
80 Credits

1- 5 165,000 185,000 215,000 235,000
6 180,000 200,000 230,000 250,000
7 200,000 220,000 250,000 270,000
8 230,000 250,000 280,000 300,000

Participating Airlines (subject to change): Southwest
 
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