For those who think points are no big deal

[pacheco18]

I am fortunate to have a ton of points from purchases, referrals of friends and my Marriott credit card and I just booked a trip to Romania and Hungary for next year using points.

270k points got me the Marriotts in Bucharest and Budapest (i had to get a package plus because of the splt between the 2 countries) and 100k Delta miles (I need 90K miles for each business class ticket). I added my own Delta miles to the deal (luckily I have tons of those too) and I now have two business class tickets -- which cost $8000 each! I also have the option of a open jaw -- stopping anywhere else in Europe on the way home or on the way there.

I understand the benefits of buying resale and for most people it makes sense. But if you want to travel outside the timeshare world from time to time and you want to travel in style, then all those points are a really wonderful option.

 

[pwrshift]

Couldn't agree with you more. There comes a time in life when you want to do some travel that you might not have been able to do while raising a family and it becomes payback time. And for that, I don't mean sitting back in the economy section with some stranger snoring on my neck.

The best bargain on a cost/value basis of FF miles is with business class air (on a two class airline) which sometimes costs 5 times more than an economy fare -- but only about 60% more than the economy FF miles needed. And for that, you get admission to their lounges, priority baggage handling, considerably more comfortable seating, better meals and a nicer environment.

Brian

... if you want to travel outside the timeshare world from time to time and you want to travel in style, then all those points are a really wonderful option.

 

[Dave M]

Absolutely! Marriott Rewards points are a huge deal. The challenge, for those of us who want to accumulate and use them in the way you have related, is finding the most economical way to obtain them. Sometimes that means buying a timeshare from Marriott. Often it involves buying points directly from Marriott.

 

[Bill4728]

Sometimes that means buying a timeshare from Marriott. Often it involves buying points directly from Marriott.

Remember that anyone can buy reward points direct from Marriott at a $625/ 50,000 points/year. This is without owning a Marriott TS or giving up use of your TS.

 

[jerseyfinn]

MRPs are not for everyone. But for folks who enjoy destination travel and who possess a flexible, relativistic world view, those MRPs are a gift from the travel gods waiting to be accumulated and utilized.

Actually our TS ownership and the learning curve of Marriott TS and travel in general gave my wife and I an enlightened view of destination travel. In addition to our TS travels, we began doing long weekend runs to London and elsewhere in Europe to build up FF miles and elite status with an airline. The miles pile up and the MRPs accumulate as we roll all of it into one big string of destination trips each year enjoying the perks of an elite FFer. And along the way we do a few travel packages to enhance our travel.

I don't sit down and calculate cost per point or per mile. It's about what we can do with the points in the aggregate. It may not be everyone's defintion of how to travel, but it damned sure works for us. Presently sitting on 2.5 mil MRPs. The only reason we don't tap them at present is we're so wrapped up in our present travel schemes (and we work full time ) that we don't have the time to work the points into our travels. But we're patient folks and we will indeed use those points one day.

In the mean time, we keep on doing our travel thing. At present this means two TS trips to Spain each year ( just finishing up 2 weeks in Costa del Sol, our second visit of the year ) along with those long weekend trips which this year took us to London twice and once to Barcelona. Also throw in some time at Ocean Pointe. If there's a negative, it's that we couldn't stay at a Marriott in BCN. But we're piling up MRPs as well as scads of FF miles. As Brian suggests, business seats are the way to go (or miles for UGs ).

But it all began with Marriott TS. So Pacheco, you have yourself a great time enjoying the fruits of your ownership and your travels. Marriott TS can work any way you want it to.

Barry

 

[short]

You can also buy miles directly from airlines.

Remember that anyone can buy reward points direct from Marriott at a $625/ 50,000 points/year. This is without owning a Marriott TS or giving up use of your TS.

You can also buy miles directly from airlines. Annual purchase quantities are limited but a regular purchase program will get you to the same place. 90,000 miles for a BC ticket at 2.5 cents per mile on the average makes a BC seat worth about $2,250. If you have to double down to get a full fare changeable ticket it still would be $4,500 max. Valuing airtravel and hotels at rack rate overstates the value of Marriott reward packages. That is not to say Marriott reward packages do not have value but just that most folks overstate the value.

I just returned from Oslo/Stockholm to LAX on a business class ticket for $3,500. A 7 night stay in a nice room at the Radisson Royal Viking averaged $250 per night including breakfast with AAA rates and varying room rates. Less for Sat. night and gradually increasing by Tue. night.

So if this were a package deal it would be $250 * 7 = $1750 plus 2 BC tickets at $2250 each for $4500 for airfare. Total value would have been $6,250 for a package such as this would be a more appropriate valuation.

If you buy a timeshare for $25000 the lost interest at 5 percent($1250) plus maint. fees ($1250) plus deprec.(????) means you shoud get trip like this with 2 years worth of points for it to be a average value. If you are spending more Marriott points than 2 years worth than that it starts to look like a poor value.

Short

 

[winger]

after much thinking and reading and TUG advice, my wife and I purchased directly from Marriott just for the concept of flexibility with points. Stories from the likes of Master Powershift and others was the deciding point to spend the extra cash now to buy us more flexibility later. The only thing that is disturbing is the depreciation of points where Marriott does not increase the amt of pts a exchanged when you give up your annual TS week as they increase amt of pts required to stay at their hotels (by form of increasing hotel's category levels).

 

[Kagehitokiri]

while i personally only care about starwood points, marriott is the only program that comes close to starwood in terms of earning airline miles from hotel stays.

you can also redeem for stays at ritz carlton and other partners.

and i think its also the second largest chain after intercontinental.

definitely some great features.

 

[billymach4]

To the OP congratulations

However earned you in one shape or form have had to pay for those points. They are a form of currency in the form of Marriott points as we all well know. So long as you are comfortable with this concept I applaud you for leveraging these points into your well deserved vacation!

 

[Transit]

Clever usage of points will get you some good values even with recent devalualtions.It's a statagey game.I love playing

 

[tim]

Clever usage of points will get you some good values even with recent devalualtions.It's a statagey game.I love playing

I have played the "game" for several years now and also love it as we save big bucks. Unfortunately, I never get to fly business class as I am trying to get 5 free airline tickets for my entire family. To maximize our value, we always try to do a 3 legged trip. For example, one summer we flew from Chicago to Sweden (for 1 week) then to Germany (for two weeks) then back to Chicago. That 3 stop ticket would have cost us $1800 per person. I could never had paid $9000 for my family just in transportation costs. Indeed, we would not have gone on the trip but for the free miles from Marriott. I ended up using about 460,000 Marriott points, but got the free 5 airline tickets and two rooms at a nice Marriott property in Germany for a week (about a $3000 value). Considering what we spent to acquire the Marriott points, the trip turned out to be a great deal for us.

 

[pacheco18]

Remember that anyone can buy reward points direct from Marriott at a $625/ 50,000 points/year. This is without owning a Marriott TS or giving up use of your TS.

FYi -- 50k points does not get you much in the way of miles on Delta (eg). You need about 120k points to get 50k miles and then you need to add 40k miles to it to get a business class ticket to Europe. I am almost convinced that it might be worth exchanging a timeshare for points one year, get the 120k points and use the 50k miles that would give me toward another business class ticket. Even with MFs at $1000, if the exchange helps me get an $8000 ticket I am still ahead of the "game."

 

[Cobra1950]

Just got back from travelling in China for two weeks. The better part of the stay was in Marriotts, including the brand new Renaissance in Shanghai. Using points, cost for lodging was $0 in one of the nicest hotels I have been in.

 

[pwrshift]

People seem to forget that it takes a while to 'earn' 110,000 MR points with hotel stays and credit card purchases ... and you need 250k-270k MR points for a Cat6 or 7 pkg with 120,000 FF miles. For Europe on biz class you really need 2 pkgs for 2 weeks and biz class for two ... thus 500k to 540k MR points. Getting that many points takes some planning and a couple of years or more for most people. But the rewards are worth patience.

Forgetting elite bonus points, at 2000 MR points for a $200 a night hotel stay, to 'earn' 540k MR points takes 270 stays, say over 2 years...pretty tough to do for non-business travel. If you have 2 weeks you can turn in for 110k MR points a year you'll still need to 'earn' 100,000 more MR points (540-440) over those two years ... or to buying them from Marriott. That's a lot of points pretty quickly but there's a cost for sure -- 4 maint/taxes, fees, and loss of use (although you do get 2 luxury hotel weeks back for your Cat 7 certificate stays) and the cost of any points you might buy.

The balancing factor is not figuring out what 'free' trips you get, but what 'value' you get for your investment. If economy flights to Italy cost $1000 and biz class costs $4000 you can see the difference in value, comfort, prestige, etc. If you would stay in a 3 star hotel to save money but could stay in a 5 star on points you see another 'value' and savings over what cash it would take to do so.

That's why I have 2 of my 6 weeks traded in for points EY to replenish points I've used and at the same time still have more weeks for TS travel than I can personally use, especially with AC's from II. It was part of my plan to maximize the use of MR points and IMO a true benefit of the Marriott direct purchase plan for me. And that plan doesn't include staying in a Residence Inn on points for a couple of nights and/or not trading points for air/hotel pkgs where the best value comes.

Everyone has different holiday objectives -- early in life we do it all for our kids but when they leave the nest it's often time for a change, and the Marriott program provides that - not free, for sure, but by maximizing value you can travel in a way you might never have believed possible if paying 'cash'. Special occasions, honeymoons, anniversaries, graduations, etc., would cost a ton of money otherwise - to the point many people will economize instead.

Brian

 

[luv2vacation]

I have followed this thread avidly. I am new to TUG (only a month) but have been timesharing for over 10 years. I love staying in TS, but now that my kids are grown, I would like to branch out. We have found that the last couple of years, we stay exclusively at Marriotts (TS & hotels -Hubby is very brand loyal). I was looking to buy another Marriott week and since finding TUG, decided to go resale -since I have never traded my OP for points, thus saw the great value in resale.

However, since reading this thread, I am starting to rethink this position and might buy another developer week - something that would get me an AC and has good trading power for when I trade with II and something with low MF and a high points value for when I trade to Marriott for points.

I like to stay in very nice hotels, usually eat out when on vacation (for dinner anyway), and am looking to travel all over US and Carribbean (still trying to talk Hubby into overseas - but might never get there.

So I have a question for the experienced point users: Do you think that, wanting to travel this way (just domestic and islands), it would make sense to spend the extra $12-13K for someplace like Manor Club sequel? (I'm only in my forties so have lots of years to build those points still!)

 

[pacheco18]

Depends On A Couple Of Things -- Especially The Difference Between Resale And Developer Price -- Which Varies From Ts To Ts

Also Consider Whether Traveling Business Class To Europe Is Important To You -- It Is To Us -- When Each Ticket Is Worth Around 7k - 8k And You Get An Open Jaw And Add A City -- You Can Do The Math For Yourself And See If It's Worth It. Planning And Using Points Is Always Easier If You Have Ff Miles Of Your Own To Couple With The Points Deals.

I'm Sure Other Points Users Will Chime In On This

 

[brp]

Actually our TS ownership and the learning curve of Marriott TS and travel in general gave my wife and I an enlightened view of destination travel. In addition to our TS travels, we began doing long weekend runs to London and elsewhere in Europe to build up FF miles and elite status with an airline. The miles pile up and the MRPs accumulate as we roll all of it into one big string of destination trips each year enjoying the perks of an elite FFer. And along the way we do a few travel packages to enhance our travel.

We are in precisely the same situation. We fly American Airlines and maintain top status. Part of this is by taking long weekends to Europe, South America or the Caribbean, coupled with regular domestic weekends. As we pay for these flights to maintain status (and employ the tricks to get good deals and upgrades) we would use the MRPs for the hotels. We currently have Starwood points (and a Starwood CC for me) and have used those to offset 450-550 €/night hotels in Italy, for example). In this case, it may be worth the extra cost to buy from a developer with EY points exchange privilege...provided that the upfront points package is good as well.

Cheers.

 

[pwrshift]

If you are buying to build points I would consider buying MMC rather than MSE (price difference) or Legend's Edge -- if they both still have the points EY deal that was in some other thread a while back. That way you get the lowest priced MF and the max number of points. I'm guessing the price was just under $20k with bonus points upfront and EY trading...so it's not really another $12k over resale.

Trading a resort like OP for points is not as good a deal as the annual MF is too high and you enjoy using the resort every year. I have the same thing with BP now as its MF is too high to make trading for points worthwhile. Over time, because the amount of points you can get that way is fixed and the MF is not, they will all become less advantageous for trading for points ... other than it's a nice option if you need to cancel for some reason (illness) and can someday use the MR points. If I traded all my weeks in one year I'd get almost 600,000 MR points for about $5000 in MF. In return, I could get a biz class trip for two to Europe for two weeks in Cat 7 hotels which would certainly cost more than that. Europe iis where you'd see the greatest cost/benefit value cash vs points, more than the islands or domestic, but there are still good savings either way.

I guess what I'm saying is that the MR point system is a nice benefit now if you use it but it might not be as good a benefit in 20 years time, and there will over time be a devaluation of the points for sure. Live for today.

Brian

...However, since reading this thread, I am starting to rethink this position and might buy another developer week - something that would get me an AC and has good trading power for when I trade with II and something with low MF and a high points value for when I trade to Marriott for points.

I like to stay in very nice hotels, usually eat out when on vacation (for dinner anyway), and am looking to travel all over US and Carribbean (still trying to talk Hubby into overseas - but might never get there.

So I have a question for the experienced point users: Do you think that, wanting to travel this way (just domestic and islands), it would make sense to spend the extra $12-13K for someplace like Manor Club sequel? (I'm only in my forties so have lots of years to build those points still!)

 

[winger]

beside cost diff between msc and mmc, mmc gives more pts I think.

note it's been reported MMC MF jumped 18.5% for 2008. this on top another double digit increast for 2007. Looking like trading in MMC for pts is beginnging to look 'not too attractive' very fast

 

[Big Matt]

Where was this reported?

Was there any rationale for the increase?

note it's been reported MMC MF jumped 18.5% for 2008.

 

[KathyPet]

We have found great pleasure in our points over the last few years. our only child is on her own now and my husband and I are much more interested in traveling to other countries for vacations.We want to stay in the major cities not in a T/S 45 miles away. Our points allow us to do that. Also we are now just reaching retirement age. I can no longer deal with flights of 6 hours or more stuffed into a coach class seat. Our points allow us to go business class (does anyone have any idea how much a business class ticket costs to purchase it outright? They are very expensive.) Our points allow us to do that. Those nosayers who see no value in points always trot out their examples of how much it would cost to pay cash for the vacations people take using points but they always calculate the costs using coach tickets and then try to convince people that the points are not worth the extra costs of buying from Marriott. Those who buy resale better be sure that they are always going to want to stay in a timeshare no matter where they go or what age they reach. As for me give me my points!

 

[Transit]

I guess what I'm saying is that the MR point system is a nice benefit now if you use it but it might not be as good a benefit in 20 years time, and there will over time be a devaluation of the points for sure. Live for today.

This is a realistic veiw on any hotel based TS point system. I veiw these points as side benefit to my ownership week and credit card use I don't think I would go out and buy a developer unit simply for the points benefit. During lean times (or anytime they please) airlines and hotels could devaluate these points to uselessness.

 

[brp]

In using he points for airline award tickets, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Business class tickets are quite a bit more to purchase than coach.

For some (us included), we buy coach tickets and receive free upgrade certificates from American Airlines based on our status. Thus, we get to Business that way.

Then the question becomes- does the value of the points outweigh the cost of the MF, and some amortized value of the property purchase price, i.e. would it have been cheaper to pay for the hotel than the MF + property cost fraction? I think that creative use of the points can make this be the case- use them in high cost places such as Europe, and not for cheaper places where more points can be accumulated. But I don't think it's a given.

Then there is the point mentioned above about points devaluation. As points-based hotel programs change, it can require more points in the future to stay at the same place. The points awarded for the TS trade, though, are fixed. And the MF increase. So, it is costing more per point, and they are potentially less valuable.

Not disagreeing with your basic point at all...just something to think about.

Cheers.

 

[winger]

Where was this reported?

Was there any rationale for the increase?

see this thread http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56948 towards bottom of first page.

Not 100% sure on accuracy but a Tugger reported it. I know last Fri, MVCI did not have these figures. I do not know the breakdown

 

[wuv pooh]

see this thread http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56948 towards bottom of first page.

Not 100% sure on accuracy but a Tugger reported it. I know last Fri, MVCI did not have these figures. I do not know the breakdown

It is published on the vacation club website. No detailed breakdown, but $845. That is a 33% increase in 2 years

The GM will have some explaining to do when I arrive next week.