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Will credit crisis impact TS sales or prices?

angie

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Aug 13, 2005
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I realize most people do not finance TS purchases, but I still wonder if there is any connection between the current credit crunch in housing and TS prices or sales volume (other than the obvious fallout that people who can not make payments on their adjustable mortgages are not likely to be in the market to buy a TS). This might make people in the market to buy a TS sit on the fence for a few months. Thoughts?

Angie
 
Here's my read on the situation.

The subprime mortgage crises largely affects people who became too involved with credit or bought "more" house than they could afford, after payment amounts went up with interest rates.

The problem is estimated at costing $67 Billion in a US economy (per US News & World Report) that is now running at $1.4 trillion per year. So it is somewhat overblown by the media (what isn't?). That excludes the terrible cost of human pyschological pain for those involved.

I do feel that the consumer who signs up for an adjustable rate mortgage, that they will not be able to afford when rates rise, is also likely to buy a TS they can't afford (or use yearly) on credit. Keep in mind that the credit issued by a developer is "free money" to them as it is in addition to the credit cards and home equity lines that got them in trouble these days. It's like getting another credit card with a big credit line, something that has been cut back itself the last year or two as consumer debt expanded much quicker than the economy.

So I do think some developer sales will be lost. I further think that the attitude of "Yippee, got a new credit card, let's go on vacation" will and has been diminisghed for a year or so already, lowering the number of travellers to timeshare rentals. I think most here who rent will agree that this year is slower for rentals than last year and the past.

But the upper 5% of the population make and control the majority of the nation's money. That's why new high-end timeshares from Marriott, et al are selling like hotcakes. Those who are doing well have done great, the stock market is still way up for example.

I think those affected will be the middle class. My heart goes out for the working poor in general, but they haven't had money for vacationing to begin with, so they should not be impacted.

And the major effect will not be from those with mortgage nightmares, but from the average person who gets concerned and pulls back on spending. It's all about confidence in the economy.

People can still have money in their pockets, but if confidence wanes, the economy goes down. Perception is more important than reality sometimes, especially in economics.

That is why it is important that this plays out as quickly as possible or at least gets less media coverage. We seem to love sensational media and nightmare stories on the news, in this case, it will hurt us all if perceptions lead to fear which leads people with money to reduce spending.

What's particularly ironic is that a $67 billion dollar problem gets covered this much and no one is talking about the $400-$500 billion dollars the US will have as it's balance of trade deficit this year. That's money leaving the country that ain't ever coming back. With no change in sight. THAT is a real threat to our futures.
 
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Job cutbacks.

One of the biggest employers in my town is laying off 20 percent of their workforce locally. These folks are very well paid and the type to own houses and timeshares. Not only will some of these folks going to be selling their homes but the Company will not be subsidizing new hires trying to buy a house in our over inflated housing market.

In addition, Countrywide has some presence here and they are having layoffs. Most of these are likely spread across the country as they lay off a large part of their subprime lending unit.

As these people try to unload their houses they will also try to unload there timeshares. I would expect this fall will have a good selection of resales with fewer and lower bids.

Short
 
For all the home loans issued in 2005 & 2006, the foreclosure rate for those loans is expected to be 20%. Currently, there are 2.2 million loans in foreclosure and that rate is expected to jump substantially after January 1, 2008.

IMHO, the top 5% income bracket (mega-rich) do not purchase timeshares. That's small potatoes where the focus is on middle-to-upper income categories. That's the very group getting absolutely hammered by the economy. Health care costs alone are a huge issue.

So in my take, timeshare sales have to take a beating as there's not much discretionary income laying around, especially when one looks at what's happening in the stock market and investments. How many -100 to -200 point days have we seen in the Dow over that last 6 weeks?
 
That mean that we can load up on the premium week and points on resale market.:cheer:
 
I have seen sales increase. People who were planning to buy second homes are buying a few weeks of high end timeshares instead. Especially because they see it as a lower risk vacation purchase. My sales are up significantly.
 
The national foreclosure rate is still very small. The most problems are being felt in California and Florida where many bought homes for "flipping" or preconstruction with the intent of selling at a higher price. These people will be in many cases in the position of abandoning their deposits espiecially if it was small and enter into foreclosure. Regretably some homeowners who actually will live in their homes were put in the positon of buying in an overheated market at a price which was too great and using unconventional financing to make the purchase.

Second homes were also hot in last few years and the market has cooled. People who would have bought a second home with the hope that it would appreciate as well as provide a vacation retreat have probably rethought based on the current market. They may buy later if the prices retreat.

I can see that as Seth indicates a timeshare would be an excellent alternative. If this is correct the resale market which is becoming more well known should be hot and the developers may have to grive greater incentives to drive sales.
 
What's particularly ironic is that a $67 billion dollar problem gets covered this much and no one is talking about the $400-$500 billion dollars the US will have as it's balance of trade deficit this year. That's money leaving the country that ain't ever coming back. With no change in sight. THAT is a real threat to our futures.
I agree with you here as you don't hear this mentioned often enough. Instead of talking always about crime and car chases, why don't they educate people in economic sense?

In our area here, many lenders have been advertising constantly for a few years now to refinance the variable loans and I can't phantom out why people didn't do so? They all knew that the rates would go up one day.

What is sad for these people is that so many bought a home after prices had gone up so much already and now they owe more than the house is worth so they walk away from it. Who is really the guilty party? The lenders were giving credit away and knew darn well that this was going to happen to some of the home buyers who bought so late in the game. :bawl:
 
I have seen sales increase. People who were planning to buy second homes are buying a few weeks of high end timeshares instead. Especially because they see it as a lower risk vacation purchase. My sales are up significantly.
This is good for the sellers of these timeshares so prices must be going up. I spoke with a sales manager recently and the Marriott is still selling well and was even ahead of their own projections. Sales seem to be brisk on the Islands and they are from people too who rather buy a timeshare now than owning a vacation home and they buy multiple weeks. A timeshare is practically carefree so that is a big plus and it saves money because you don't let it sit empty for many months of the year. Not everyone wants to rent their vacation condo to strangers.
 
This is good for the sellers of these timeshares so prices must be going up. I spoke with a sales manager recently and the Marriott is still selling well and was even ahead of their own projections. Sales seem to be brisk on the Islands and they are from people too who rather buy a timeshare now than owning a vacation home and they buy multiple weeks. A timeshare is practically carefree so that is a big plus and it saves money because you don't let it sit empty for many months of the year. Not everyone wants to rent their vacation condo to strangers.

This is a great point. We bought our vacation home 3 years ago in Tahoe. We usually go every 1-2 months for 1-2 weeks at a time. The upkeep, taxes, association, utilities (phone & TV), etc. all add up. We could easily afford 5-10 more vacation homes but opted this year that it was easier to buy TSs. We seriously considered buying at Honua Kai in Maui just prior to to buying our TSs. It is nice to show up to a nice place that is cleaned with mgmt. onsite and only have to pay for the taxes, utilities, etc. that I use (or close to it). For about half (or more) the price of another vacation home, we got 5 weeks of TSs (10 if we split our LOs) in nice locations.

Ironically, we are here in the Bahamas at Harborside and we are considering a place in the Ocean Club. $10M will buy a nice place and it gives us a nice alternative to the US if we ever choose to move our permanent residence.
 
I agree with Seth. If anything, timeshare sales are driven by occupancy rates at developer sites and timeshares would be presented as an alternative to buying a second home. Credit is granted to the buyers by the developers, not by an independent financial company. They can approve anyone they want. Since it is so easy to repossess a timeshare, they can continue to grant credit without really any risk.

I just helped someone out who had no money and they were granted a consumer loan (against my personal advice) to buy a timeshare just this past month. So, money is there for discretionary items.

It is also true that the subprime mortgage market is affecting the jumbo loan market. There are less investors for those non conforming loans. So, rates are getting pretty high for a jumbo mortgage.

Also, higher foreclosure rates mean more sales at auction which will negatively impact home prices. I recall when the pundits said that home prices across the country have never had a declining year. Well, they will this year for the first time in I believe over 50 years of tracking. It's the natural blow off of the housing bubble bursting.

The interesting thing is that for me, the best time to buy is when there are no buyers. The best time to sell is when there are no sellers. No is the time to start bargain hunting. And, in a time when houses are not selling, rental markets become very strong. This is the time to pick up some distressed properties, rent them out and hold out for the rebound. I just signed up for a real estate foreclosure course for early October to learn the tricks.

If you think about, the next year or two will be the peak number of foreclosures in a long while. It will probably be considered to Golden age of foreclosure investing.

If Perry is out there, I believe it is NOW time to relook at Condo Hotels in Florida. Get them for pennies on the dollar. Bid on them like you do timeshares. It will probably work.
 
If Perry is out there, I believe it is NOW time to relook at Condo Hotels in Florida. Get them for pennies on the dollar. Bid on them like you do timeshares. It will probably work.

I totally agree with you. It is time to buy a condo or condo hotels. I can't believe how low the prices are at some of the units. I doubt the timeshare price will drop much more since they are already discounted at resale.
 
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