Ochoas,Tom and brother

[Harry]

Alright, I know there has been some discussion about these guys. In fact, Cindy had a comment recently. Any recommendations? Thanks

 

[johnmfaeth]

I have bought many timeshares from Doug and Tom Ochoa over the years. They used to sell for vacation innovations who had mostly "pay to take it" inventory. In their newest incarnation they seem to also sell a lot of trade ins.

In any event, they have always delivered as promised of fully refunded without delays. They have corrected or cancelled EBay auctions which I have pointed out as having defects.

I dislike "pay to take it" as an option for owners, but some people seem to refuse to do their research and I guess they serve a purpose, but once something is transferred that way, I might as well get the bargain is my viewpoint.

I have posted in all the Yahoo groups at resorts where I own about the negatives of "pay upfront to list" and "pay to take it" operations. That's my contribution to the cause of others getting a fair shake.

 

[JudyS]

I have bought from Thomas Ochoa once, and it went smoothly. It was a week obtained from Vacation Innovations, I believe.

...I dislike "pay to take it" as an option for owners, but some people seem to refuse to do their research and I guess they serve a purpose, but once something is transferred that way, I might as well get the bargain is my viewpoint....

This is basically my view, as well. I mentioned to my sister I had bought from this sort of operation, and she was shocked. However, I figure that my passing up their deals isn't likely to hurt these operations much. On the last timeshare I bought this way, I paid $51, and the second-highest bidder bid $50. So, if I hadn't bid, Vacation Innovations would have been out one buck -- not much compared to the thousands they were probably paid to take the timeshare in the first place.

What's pretty sad is the resort I bought this Vacation Innovations week from has an active resale program on site, and warns people in the HOA newsletter not to pay people to take the timeshare off their hands.

What's even sadder is that the only other property I bought from one of these "postcard companies" is at a RTU resort where owners are allowed to give back their RTU any time they want.

I guess there are a lot of owners out there who don't do their homework.

 

[eoneguru]

Ditto to the previous posts.

I bought from Doug on May 10th, this year, and had my deed before the end of June. Very painless. Doug and Title Outlet were very helpful throughout the whole process.

Ray

 

[pittle]

I've bought from Thomas twice and everything went very smooothly. I got great prices and quick service. I bought 2 weeks at the Sheraton Buganvillas and 2 weeks at the Mayan Palace.

I don't know where they get them, but my thought is from "kids" who cannot afford the ones they inherit from their parents. I'm sure my kids will look for a place to unload ours - the MF and airfare would make a huge dent in their budgets. Guess I will just have to live a long time.

 

[Kona Lovers]

I followed their link from a recent ebay auction, and according to the information, they say they actually buy timeshares from people. It didn't appear to be a situation of paying them to take it off one's hands.

Marty

 

[DaveNV]

Put me down as a satisfied customer. I bought a TS on eBay from each of them this year, and things have gone very smoothly in both cases. No complaints, and as I've posted earlier today in the Wyndham forum, a pleasant surprise that a purchase I thought was going to flip is going to close - earlier than I expected. Nice surprise!

I'd definitely buy from either of them again. (And Title Outlet may get a bad rap, but they've been right on target with both my deals. They get a positive feedback, too.)

Dave

 

[DaveNV]

I followed their link from a recent ebay auction, and according to the information, they say they actually buy timeshares from people. It didn't appear to be a situation of paying them to take it off one's hands.

Marty

Marty, I spoke with Doug Ochoa during my most recent eBay purchase, concerning use of the 2007 week at the resort I was buying, trading power at this late date, and so forth. Doug told me, "I have probably 25 weeks on deposit with RCI at the moment, so if nothing else, I can give you one to pay you back if the one with this purchase isn't usable. There's no problem getting you the week you want." When I pressed him a bit further about using the week at the actual resort, not a traded week somewhere else, he asked what sort of reservation date I wanted, and said he'd call me right back. Within ten minutes he called me back and said "my" week was now reserved at the resort for Thanksgiving weekend. I thanked him for the great customer service. I have no complaints about them.

Despite my initial reluctance to buy from an unknown like that, I have to say again, I'd definitely buy from either Ochoa brother again. They're two for two in my experience.

Dave

 

[rickandcindy23]

Harry, certainly a little mention of postcard companies should not have anyone running from bargains. I have been criticized here for trying to shut these guys down, and keeping bargains from people, but that is not true. I do want people to know that if you look around a little, you can find bargains elsewhere.

If people at all these resorts believe that their weeks are so devalued that they must pay someone $3,495 + paying their current MF's, surely you can find the same thing out there on the various websites to buy from owners who are desperate to sell.

I keep trying to stop being offended by these guys, but it affects our resorts and affects the way people feel about timeshare. I picture these poor people sitting down at holiday dinners, telling their families about paying that kind of money to rid themselves of their "burden." That leaves an impression; the information is spread to friends, and pretty soon, timeshare is even uglier than people already think it is.

The more informed people are, the less these guys will make. I want to stop the postcard companies at the resort level, with communication. I don't want to stop anyone from buying their bargains on eBay, even if it is Ochoas or laman34 or the many others out there. But next time you buy from one of these guys, ask where the week came from. Believe me, these guys will lie to you. But you can pretend that it was a trade in or some person contacted that reseller to list it on eBay. Believe what you want, but those companies are growing and creating more copycats.

 

[DaveNV]

Cindy, I completely understand what you're saying, but wouldn't it make more sense to educate the SELLERS who are looking to unload their "burden," that there are other ways to dispose of their TS? What would you say to those people who don't want (or can't afford) their TS anymore, and just want OUT? I'm not defending predatory postcard companies, but what do you tell the folks who truly need to bail - at any price? To those people, $3500 may be the lowest financial way to unload what they don't want anymore.

Dave

 

[rickandcindy23]

Jeepguy Dave,
Read the second post in this thread:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48145&highlight=postcard+companies

 

[rickandcindy23]

I followed their link from a recent ebay auction, and according to the information, they say they actually buy timeshares from people. It didn't appear to be a situation of paying them to take it off one's hands.

Marty

Marty, what company? This information is according to whom? They lie. They have to, because why would you want to pay for something that someone paid to get rid of. They don't talk about ongoing debt, assessments, and how there is no way out. That is what they say to those who are at their meetings in hotel conference rooms. What is their real opinion of timeshare, anyway? They say one thing to the burdened and quite another in their auctions. That is the problem.

I had Vacation Solutions lie to me not once, but twice. I asked directly where their inventory comes from. Both were very new resellers.

I think some people do contact different sellers on eBay, so I am not saying it doesn't happen. But the majority of the eBay listings are the postcard companies, and they do get the inventory the way I have outlined here on this site many times. It wouldn't be that difficult to trace the recorded deeds and see who is the owner of record. You can make a call to the former owner. Tell them how you got their names and that you are buying the week. It could be interesting.

The names of the resellers are on the deeds because two closings happen simultaneously. The reseller has the power of attorney, the unit is first recorded into that person's name, or the company's name, then it is transferred to the eBay buyer.

 

[DaveNV]

Thanks, Cindy. That makes sense, but how active ARE the HOAs at TS resorts? Owners are scattered all over the world, most don't know each other, and I'd think few are ever available to attend owners meeting or HOA Board meetings. Many TS owners are going to be pretty passive about what they own, since it's a weeklong vacation thing, not an "everyday life" thing. (And speaking as a recently retired HOA President in my neighborhood association, I can tell you a lot of owners are just plain lazy, and want someone else to do all the work.)

Your goal is certainly noble and understandable, but seems a pretty daunting task.

Dave

 

[rickandcindy23]

All it takes is for a few owners to write letters to the boards and the management companies of their resorts. Ask that the letter be sent to all owners. John Chase did this at his own resort, Cypress Pointe.

We have the ear for three of our resorts. The others are still in developer's hands, but these three are on their own. Free weeks at any of those three resorts would go quickly. Owners just have to know that the weeks are free. Our resorts don't want to give anything away, but they need to reconsider. Giving away weeks to current owners is the best way to recycle weeks for usage. Think of all the inventory that just sits vacant. It is sad, really.

 

[Kona Lovers]

rickandcindy23:

The link that I was talking about was on an auction by tochoa25 and led to a website called sellmeyourtimeshare.com. This has an ad that says they buy your timeshare, claiming they pay cash for all timeshares. Is that just a line they're trying to feed people and it ends up costing a person for them to take a timeshare? If that's the case, that's just not right.

Marty:annoyed:

 

[madherb]

Another viewpoint for the postcard guys is that they charge for the service of marketing as well as for the risk. They started out just charging an advertising/marketing fee and some still do. Others that are making bigger $ take ownership of the week so they have considerable risk involved.

It seems to me that eventually the numbrs will catch up to them. Sure they can unload the good weeks and even marginal ones but I see a lot that go with no bids. They will get stuck for a lot of maintenance fees if they can't sell in the current year. Asking for reimbursement of these fees typically more than doubles the price and since the week didn't sell for $1 +399 for closing it isn't likely to move for $1+399+595.

I assume they will try to walk but they may have enough at one resort or a number of resorts managed by the same company to justify the expense of suing for the fees. I also assume they will just move on but they will have provided a service to some owners that regardless of Cindy's well meaning efforts to protect the world.

By the way I have purchased from the Ochoa's as well and would do so again. The real way to stop them is to stop buying but the prices are too good.

 

[rickandcindy23]

rickandcindy23:

The link that I was talking about was on an auction by tochoa25 and led to a website called sellmeyourtimeshare.com. This has an ad that says they buy your timeshare, claiming they pay cash for all timeshares. Is that just a line they're trying to feed people and it ends up costing a person for them to take a timeshare? If that's the case, that's just not right.

Marty:annoyed:

Marty, some of the timeshares on eBay are owners who want to sell, so Ochoas run the auctions and give the owners a percentage of what is made. One TUGger was considering the sale of his Marriott Kauai Beach this way, through Thomas. He contacted me to see if I was interested in listing his on eBay, or if I wanted to purchase the week, but I have no experience. That is certainly a better business model.

Thomas worked for VINinc for a very long time. I am pretty sure his email address was still VINinc a few months ago, too. He sold the units for Timeshare Relief, had the week transferred to his name, then the week simultaneously is sold to the buyer. So you never see the former owners' names on the deeds. His name was on my deed three years ago. Some of you may say, as others have before, "If you bought from him, doesn't it make you a hypocrite to tell others not to buy?" I bought from Ochoa when he was at VINinc before I knew about TUG and before I found out about postcard companies.

I truly believe that Ochoas started their own postcard company. I don't know which one, but the business model was working, so why not duplicate it? I have postcards for about 8 different companies. These people are getting rich. A postcard costs about 24 cents to mail out. They get 15-20 people to attend the meetings at once, and about half of those people pay. This benefits the companies well, or they would stop doing it.

 

[rickandcindy23]

It seems to me that eventually the numbrs will catch up to them. Sure they can unload the good weeks and even marginal ones but I see a lot that go with no bids. They will get stuck for a lot of maintenance fees if they can't sell in the current year. Asking for reimbursement of these fees typically more than doubles the price and since the week didn't sell for $1 +399 for closing it isn't likely to move for $1+399+595.

They also deed weeks back to the resorts for zero cost. Uri Fried takes a lot of the bad weeks, too. Janie666 told me about Fried and his business. These guys dump the weeks that no one will buy after listing them a few times, but she had no idea how. He has some secrets.

Also, Spence reported a list of timeshares they will NOT take, even for the $3,495, because they can't sell them. So they really aren't helping THOSE people, are they?

 

[nazclk]

Doug and Tom Ochoa

Keep them ebay bargains coming and for those that don't want to buy from them, so be it, that leaves more for the rest of us.

 

[eoneguru]

Marty, some of the timeshares on eBay are owners who want to sell, so Ochoas run the auctions and give the owners a percentage of what is made. One TUGger was considering the sale of his Marriott Kauai Beach this way, through Thomas. He contacted me to see if I was interested in listing his on eBay, or if I wanted to purchase the week, but I have no experience. That is certainly a better business model.

Thomas worked for VINinc for a very long time. I am pretty sure his email address was still VINinc a few months ago, too. He sold the units for Timeshare Relief, had the week transferred to his name, then the week simultaneously is sold to the buyer. So you never see the former owners' names on the deeds. His name was on my deed three years ago. Some of you may say, as others have before, "If you bought from him, doesn't it make you a hypocrite to tell others not to buy?" I bought from Ochoa when he was at VINinc before I knew about TUG and before I found out about postcard companies.

I truly believe that Ochoas started their own postcard company. I don't know which one, but the business model was working, so why not duplicate it? I have postcards for about 8 different companies. These people are getting rich. A postcard costs about 24 cents to mail out. They get 15-20 people to attend the meetings at once, and about half of those people pay. This benefits the companies well, or they would stop doing it.

Cindy .... I'm not sure if they are using a different model now. When I bought from Doug, in May, my deed had the original owners name on it. I don't know if that means anything.

Ray

 

[johnmfaeth]

If you look at "tochoa25" current auctions he has an incresing amount of high end stuff. The postcard company stuff I believe was more the case with his last employers VIN. Now I speculate that they buy and get most inventory from tradeins with their new company they started a year or so ago.

 

[nightnurse613]

My two cents is I don't know and don't care where they get their inventory. I see inventory I am interested in all the time but rarely is the ad accurate. It will say 1 bedroom in the top half, two bedroom in the bottom; located in the east wing in one and west wing in the next. I just wish they would pay a little more attention to their business (of course, they're the ones making whatever money it is they're making). I guess I should just be quiet. I will say, when I inquire, they usually correct the ad and, based on what I've heard here, someday I may get lucky and buy another TS-from them!

 

[CatLovers]

Do your homework!

I posted something similar to this in a thread several weeks ago, so you may already know my experience with Thomas Ochoa:

While I might do business with Thomas Ochoa, I would definitely check and double-check any information he provides. He's careless about the information he puts in his Ebay listings, and more importantly, not interested in fixing the errors when they are brought to his attention. I did my due diligence for some timeshare points he had listed on Ebay, and discovered a fairly substantial error in his listing. When I brought it to his attention, he told me point-blank that he was not going to make the correction in his listing, because he didn't think it was important, and that nobody would care. And his tone with me over the telephone was pretty arrogant. The error had to do with whether the timeshare points expired or were in perpetuity, something that I thought was pretty important for a potential purchaser to know.

Anyway, I won't say don't do business with him, but I do recommend that you conduct your own due diligence in verifying any information that he provides.

 

[rickandcindy23]

If you look at "tochoa25" current auctions he has an incresing amount of high end stuff. The postcard company stuff I believe was more the case with his last employers VIN. Now I speculate that they buy and get most inventory from tradeins with their new company they started a year or so ago.

I bought a GC Hawaii two bedroom from Thomas while he was at VINinc. They do sell many high-end timeshares. Maybe that is how they market, by sending postcards to those who own at the better resorts.

 

[PigsDad]

It seems to me that eventually the numbrs will catch up to them. Sure they can unload the good weeks and even marginal ones but I see a lot that go with no bids. They will get stuck for a lot of maintenance fees if they can't sell in the current year.

Some of the postcard companies don't actually transfer ownership when they take their $3495 fee. They have the owners sign power of attorney so that if they do sell, they can do so on the owner's behalf. But if they "get stuck" with a property that won't sell, it is the original owner that is still legally responsible for the maintenance fees!

Kurt