New levels ocean pt tour

[Big Matt]

I just got asked to go to an owner update at Grande Ocean and the hook was this stuff with the two new levels. I'm here for two weeks and traded a 1BR and a studio (Grande Vista Platinum) via II. One week was ocean front and one wasn't. I'm in an ocean front unit for the next two weeks. Who says II is dead? I'm executive level in the Marriott system and these weeks are really hard to get using points even at 9:00 when the window opens. Still a lot of smoke and mirrors.

 

[daviator]

Sort of a dumb question, but I don’t really follow MVC financials. How much of their revenue is from timeshare sales vs. operations?

It seems like their bread and butter is the sizable percentage they get for operating and managing all of the properties, and thus it should very much be in their interest to make existing owners happy. But it seems like all of their efforts go into sales. Of course, like every public company, they’re always chasing growth, and the quickest way to growth is through sales I imagine. But they get a decent level of automatic growth just through increases in maintenance feee.

 

[DRH90277]

Using their sales motivated personnel to communicate changes to customers is so stupid and usually results in bad communication. Look at the confusion they have already caused. A nice clean forthright letter to all owners would be a refreshing twist for MVC. Their answer to this will be that they don't want any miscommunication.

We should tell them the secret that they have already accomplished the miscommunication over and over again. Can anyone honestly say they have received candid, fact based, and non-biased information from MVC sales personnel?

We deserve better - I'm waiting.

 

[Eric B]

One odd thing about the listing of benefits from the photo's that @Dean uploaded is the footnote saying that "Only Club Points and Enrolled Weeks purchased from or through the Developer are counted toward Reserve and Pinnacle ownership status." It's not terribly obvious what it would mean for it to be a "purchase ... through the Developer" or whether that would leave out reauthorized weeks through either an additional trust point purchase or a VSN purchase. Time will tell what that really means. This was accompanied by the sales folks being told that they would no longer be reauthorizing Vistana weeks after May 1st, which could be an indicator that previously reauthorized weeks would count.

 

[billymach4]

Using their sales motivated personnel to communicate changes to customers is so stupid and usually results in bad communication. Look at the confusion they have already caused. A nice clean forthright letter to all owners would be a refreshing twist for MVC. Their answer to this will be that they don't want any miscommunication.

We should tell them the secret that they have already accomplished the miscommunication over and over again. Can anyone honestly say they have received candid, fact based, and non-biased information from MVC sales personnel?

We deserve better - I'm waiting.

I would not hold your breath. It’s call social media buzz. Letting us stir the rumors and spreading the word on our dime. Prime the pump for the real value. Not that I agree. Actually more in agreement with your statement.

 

[DRH90277]

There are going to be a lot of us who enrolled weeks knowing they would count toward levels when converted to points. They touted this as a reason to get enrollments. This would devalue those points "in use" for many likely on the cusp of Chairman's club or another level.

 

[daviator]

Pretty sure that weeks purchased resale which have been “requalified” through a developer purchase are essentially indistinguishable from a developer purchase and will be eligible for qualification for the new elite levels.

But it’s quite possible that MVC will not allow new requalifications going forward, and so owners of resale weeks which have NOT been requalified may not have that option any more. And although MVC allowed many Vistana resale owners to enroll their ownerships in Abound when they launched that program, that wasn’t the same as requalification and so it’s very possible that those weeks would also not count toward the two new ownership levels.

So I strongly doubt that MVC will screw owners who have paid to requalify resale weeks, I think their weeks will fully qualify for achieving all elite levels. But at least according to the salesman last week, they’re not going to allow any more of those requalifications and so I think the note on the new award chart is talking about resale weeks which were not requalified.

I will be really shocked if they exclude requalified weeks from qualifying owners for the new levels.

But requalification has been a pretty effective tool to get resale buyers to make additional developer purchases, and so it remains to be seen whether a decision not to requalify weeks any more will hold up long term. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them start doing it again at some point.

 

[Eric B]

I'm hoping you're right, @daviator. If they do count those as well as RCC fractional points, I'll be Reserve. The one thing that would be really nice to have for me would be the 90 day use of holding account points because I've got some this year from a cancellation. If they do it in time, it would let me swap them out for current year points I could save. I also wonder if the same time periods will hold for StarOptions.

 

[DRH90277]

I appreciate the comment and insight of daviator. Many of us have built up our portfolios in good faith and then become easily distracted by these comments from presentations and the further dilution of information in these forums. I was an Arthur Andersen guy for quite a few years and liked the theme "think straight, talk straight." Long retired and looking back on my career, I do not remember a firm with a better focus on integrity and service. I contrast this with MVC and only hope they can be straight and fair with those of us who have invested beyond our means in their products and services.

MVC's approach to communication with owners is terrible and miserably diluted by the time we hear anything. Sure, VAC is now a public company, but they could do better with us as customers. I believe, their best people are in owner services and at the local resorts. Corporate should start communicating with those of us who are trying to make the product work and lessen the trauma caused by having sales personnel as their primary means of communication with us. How about a written memo regarding the current changes to our points and levels.

My 5 established adult children are using the trust portfolio, but I do not encourage them to buy more. The public entity, VAC, and management should want a more positive view from experienced owners. Suggestion for the BOD, go online and try to get reservations using the points system at the better resorts and seasons.

 

[daviator]

I'm hoping you're right, @daviator. If they do count those as well as RCC fractional points, I'll be Reserve. The one thing that would be really nice to have for me would be the 90 day use of holding account points because I've got some this year from a cancellation. If they do it in time, it would let me swap them out for current year points I could save. I also wonder if the same time periods will hold for StarOptions.

I’m hoping I’m right too, because even though I only own developer- purchased weeks, I’ve witnessed the promises they made when they have pushed resale buyers to buy more and requalify, and I know there are many folks here who paid good money to do so. If they essentially kneecap all those who did that, it would really eliminate the last modicum of trust I have for MVC. It would be a shitty thing to do with little benefit to them (how many owners who had paid to requalify weeks and then are told they don’t count for new elite levels are going to want to give MVC even more money? I’m thinking none.)

 

[Dean]

I'm pretty certain they can tell on their end so I'm not optimistic. I was hoping this was just going forward or at worst they would require a relatively small purchase to qualify.

 

[dioxide45]

Sort of a dumb question, but I don’t really follow MVC financials. How much of their revenue is from timeshare sales vs. operations?

It seems like their bread and butter is the sizable percentage they get for operating and managing all of the properties, and thus it should very much be in their interest to make existing owners happy. But it seems like all of their efforts go into sales. Of course, like every public company, they’re always chasing growth, and the quickest way to growth is through sales I imagine. But they get a decent level of automatic growth just through increases in maintenance feee.

It seems that contract sales are about 1/3 of total revenue. As for resort management, those customers are already captive. They only need to keep them happy enough to keep paying their maintenance fees which covers the management fee. Even if they stop paying, the rest of the owners will cover the fees through bad debt.

 

[Wahoo]

They definitely can distinguish developer-purchased weeks from 3rd party resale weeks. In my account, if I go to the "Enroll Weeks" link (under the "Use Weeks" heading) it shows me a list of all of my owned weeks. Next to each of those weeks it shows their enrollment status, and whether they were an "Internal" (developer) or "External" (3rd party resale) purchase.
I'd like to believe that they will grandfather all enrolled weeks into the new status levels, but am nervous they will distinguish between externally purchased and internally purchased weeks. I have only ever purchased 1 developer week, which I purchased to enroll 12 post-2010 resale weeks. I'm a happy Chairman's club level owner, and definitely wouldn't spend money to be promoted to the new Reserve or Pinnacle levels, but would be happy to be granted the status since my enrolled weeks equate to over 60,000 points.

 

[BigDawgTUG]

They definitely can distinguish developer-purchased weeks from 3rd party resale weeks. In my account, if I go to the "Enroll Weeks" link (under the "Use Weeks" heading) it shows me a list of all of my owned weeks. Next to each of those weeks it shows their enrollment status, and whether they were an "Internal" (developer) or "External" (3rd party resale) purchase.
I'd like to believe that they will grandfather all enrolled weeks into the new status levels, but am nervous they will distinguish between externally purchased and internally purchased weeks. I have only ever purchased 1 developer week, which I purchased to enroll 12 post-2010 resale weeks. I'm a happy Chairman's club level owner, and definitely wouldn't spend money to be promoted to the new Reserve or Pinnacle levels, but would be happy to be granted the status since my enrolled weeks equate to over 60,000 points.

View attachment 124951

Thanks for that info. I checked out the status of my weeks and, as I thought, no rhyme or reason behind what they have categorized as External and Internal. In one case, a week that I purchased on eBay from the original owner and subsequently had enrolled is listed as "Internal." In another case, a week that my father-in-law purchased prior to 2010, which was then transferred to one child, then transferred by that child to my wife and me, and subsequently enrolled is listed as "External." I would have expected each to have gone the other way.

 

[Eric B]

For all the Vistana weeks I’ve reauthorized, they had me sign a purchase agreement from the developer backdated to the original purchase date. IMHO, they haven’t got there ducks in a row to enforce exclusion of those but admitting it before the details actually come out would be losing out on a lot of FOMO sales. I don’t see actual clarity on where things really land until the last minute.

 

[Wahoo]

Thanks for that info. I checked out the status of my weeks and, as I thought, no rhyme or reason behind what they have categorized as External and Internal. In one case, a week that I purchased on eBay from the original owner and subsequently had enrolled is listed as "Internal." In another case, a week that my father-in-law purchased prior to 2010, which was then transferred to one child, then transferred by that child to my wife and me, and subsequently enrolled is listed as "External." I would have expected each to have gone the other way.

That's interesting. On my end, all 16 weeks are categorized correctly (12 external enrolled, 1 internal enrolled, and 3 external not enrolled). That said, all mine were purchased within the last 8 years, so perhaps their records get less accurate the further back in time they go.

 

[bazzap]

Website says stop at concierge to get information on new owner levels.

Strange, I have just signed in again to the owner website and I don’t see any message like this (nor on the app)?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DRH90277]

New Reserve and Pinnacle levels - I did communicate with my Marriott salesperson today. I got much more information especially about the benefits of the two new levels. We will be in the top "Pinnacle" level (50,000+ points) with our qualifying participations, so I'm not worried about that. He did share the benefits of the top level but we did not dwell on the benefits of the underlying new "Reserve" level (30,000 to 49,999 points). So, I can't identify the incremental benefits of the Pinnacle level over Reserve or over the existing Chairman levels. Some of the benefits are extensions of time for electing weeks for points, early check-in, and discounts on selected products. Seems this starts rolling out on August 1st with some aspects starting later.

We will be at Custom House for Memorial Day and may gather more insight then. There is little hope of selling us more so we may not get much beyond what applies specifically to us. We are slowly aging out of the timeshare scene and will turn the portfolio over to our children soon.

Yesterday, I did an AI search regarding our portfolio and my view of the perfect less expensive or starter portfolio. The feedback was pretty much as I expected with suggested reliance on a good base portfolio supplemented by rentals, exchanges, etc. - a value-oriented approach under about $25,000. My surprise was the level of understanding AI could compile and express, pretty comprehensive and fun.

 

[dansimms]

I don’t see this being a big incentive for current members to buy more. I think once you are at Executive or above , they should guatantee a generous buy back on any new purchases . If you hang on to it for at least 5 years , guarantee that they can relinquish that incremental purchase for 75% of what you paid. This would be a win / win for the Club and the Owner and that would drive sales in my opinion.

 

[Hindsite]

I don’t see this being a big incentive for current members to buy more. I think once you are at Executive or above , they should guatantee a generous buy back on any new purchases . If you hang on to it for at least 5 years , guarantee that they can relinquish that incremental purchase for 75% of what you paid. This would be a win / win for the Club and the Owner and that would drive sales in my opinion.

While I do think that a time-bound product offering could be worthwhile, for a 5, 10 and 15 year term, I can't imaging why MVW shareholders would want to underwrite your enduring purchase and I can't imagine the effect on maintenance fees if the HoAs have to cover the cost. Remember its the HoA that actually have the problem of unsold or delinquent inventory to deal with. Its an excellent thing that MVW routinely take on responsibility for orphaned or abandoned inventory, but I don't believe they are obliged to under the contracts.

 

[Wahoo]

Using Dean's source images ( https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/new-levels-ocean-pt-tour.381614/post-3264730 ), I created (well, AI created, truthfully) a simplified table showing all the new speculative ownership levels and benefits. The table is copied below.

For me, the most useful benefits gained at the Pinnacle level include the 50% discount within 60 days and the 120-day holding account window. The dedicated owner lounge could be interesting, but I have my doubts as to whether most resorts will actually provide such a space (and honestly, since so few members will be at the Pinnacle level, it seems frivolous to spend HOA money to create a lounge accessible to so few). Similarly, early check-in would be valuable, but I won't hold my breath that they could actually deliver.

The footnote in the original document, "Discounts are only available for owner-occupied reservations. Discounts are not available for unaccompanied guests' reservations" gives me pause. Historically, if I've had unused points nearing the end of the year that I won't be able to use myself, I'll make a last minute booking and attempt to rent it out. This would be more lucrative with the 50% discount within 60 days, but apparently renting out a booking made within 60 days of check-in would be prohibited.

*Edited to correct some errors in the table, 5/4/2026 19:00 ET

 

[SMB1]

I'm surprised and disappointed chairman/presidential club owners aren't grandfathered or granted into the top tiers respectively as they have been in the past when levels were added and points requirements changed.

 

[Eric B]

A few errors in the table, @Wahoo, (1) the Curated Luxury Hotels Access is only for Pinnacle and doesn't include Chairman's Club or Reserve, and (2) the Dedicated Owner Lounge is not just for Pinnacle but also includes Chairman's Club and Reserve, (3) The Bonvoy ratio for Reserve is 65:1 and those all should probably be noted to apply to trust points only as enrolled weeks seem to have assigned values rather than ratios, (4) the table omits the banking period and the new automatic banking option (which has a 1 year banking period), (5) the table omits the Last-Minute Point Discount percentages though they are the same as the Rental Discounts, (6) Members with an Owner's Benefit Level of Owner do not have access to Last-Minute Point Discounts, (7) Luxury Cruise Access is not available for Chairman's Club, (7) There is a Vacation Tour Club Points credit for Executive and up, and (8) There is a Cruise Club Points credit for Select and up. Might be a few others but those I noticed with a quick perusal. AI is fine for formatting stuff but leaves a bit to be desired when it comes to accuracy. Speaking of things I missed, I just noticed that there's also a new Election deadline for Reserve and Pinnacle of November 30th.

Some of the resorts already have a spot for a dedicated owner lounge. There is one at Westin St John already; it's labeled as being an Elite Owner Lounge harking back to the Vistana elite program. I'm not sure use is limited to Chairman's Club right now so this would be a step back in service if they limit it as described. It's not really all that much to write home about - some of the concierges sit in there and help out with booking reservations for restaurants, etc., and they have some minor snacks available. While the availability to more than just Pinnacle would make it more likely that some would use it, I believe that it would be funded out of the sales department rather than the HOA - otherwise you would wind up with all of the "peons" paying for the stuff they can't use and it would likely cause hate and discontent. I do find myself wondering how they will address this at resorts that are not actively selling anything - last time we were in St Kitts there wasn't even a sales office.

 

[daviator]

I'm surprised and disappointed chairman/presidential club owners aren't grandfathered or granted into the top tiers respectively as they have been in the past when levels were added and points requirements changed.

I'm disappointed but not surprised. MVC views Chairman and Presidential owners as the prime prospects to buy more in order to reach the new levels, so giving those new levels away for free (as they did in the past) would defeat the purpose of offering those levels.

I will be pretty surprised if large numbers of existing owners buy their way to Reserve or Pinnacle, but some people are really motivated by the idea of being at the top level I suppose.

 

[Wahoo]

A few errors in the table, @Wahoo, (1) the Curated Luxury Hotels Access is only for Pinnacle and doesn't include Chairman's Club or Reserve, and (2) the Dedicated Owner Lounge is not just for Pinnacle but also includes Chairman's Club and Reserve, (3) The Bonvoy ratio for Reserve is 65:1 and those all should probably be noted to apply to trust points only as enrolled weeks seem to have assigned values rather than ratios, (4) the table omits the banking period and the new automatic banking option (which has a 1 year banking period), (5) the table omits the Last-Minute Point Discount percentages though they are the same as the Rental Discounts, (6) Members with an Owner's Benefit Level of Owner do not have access to Last-Minute Point Discounts, (7) Luxury Cruise Access is not available for Chairman's Club, (7) There is a Vacation Tour Club Points credit for Executive and up, and (8) There is a Cruise Club Points credit for Select and up. Might be a few others but those I noticed with a quick perusal. AI is fine for formatting stuff but leaves a bit to be desired when it comes to accuracy. Speaking of things I missed, I just noticed that there's also a new Election deadline for Reserve and Pinnacle of November 30th.

Some of the resorts already have a spot for a dedicated owner lounge. There is one at Westin St John already; it's labeled as being an Elite Owner Lounge harking back to the Vistana elite program. I'm not sure use is limited to Chairman's Club right now so this would be a step back in service if they limit it as described. It's not really all that much to write home about - some of the concierges sit in there and help out with booking reservations for restaurants, etc., and they have some minor snacks available. While the availability to more than just Pinnacle would make it more likely that some would use it, I believe that it would be funded out of the sales department rather than the HOA - otherwise you would wind up with all of the "peons" paying for the stuff they can't use and it would likely cause hate and discontent. I do find myself wondering how they will address this at resorts that are not actively selling anything - last time we were in St Kitts there wasn't even a sales office.

Good points -- I will revise the chart and update my post, thanks!