New Marriott Vacation Club Ownership levels announced

[BigDawgTUG]

Confirmed by our rep this morning 30,000 and 50,000 however they did say that external weeks bought on the resale market even if they are already enrolled will not count towards the top two level

One of the selling points when I purchased direct to enroll my 7 weeks was I would be eligible for any future ownerships level changes given the amount of points my 7 weeks were worth. Guess that went out the window.

Yeah, bummed by this development as well! However, do we really expect that MVC will be able to calculate these numbers correctly? Do we even know what they mean by this exclusion? For example, two of my enrolled weeks were purchased by my father-in-law before 2010, never enrolled by him, transferred to my wife and me, and then enrolled by us with a very minimal purchase of Club Points. Will the family transfer make these eligible for them to be classified as purchased from or through MVC, or will these be considered external weeks not eligible towards Reserve and Pinnacle status because my wife and I did not purchase them directly from MVC?

 

[rickandcindy23]

Ultra rich people can afford to do this to attain the highest levels, but would they do it? There's a snobbery that exists against owning timeshares.

I know some of my family members think I have not invested wisely with my timeshare purchases.

They are not an investment like putting more money into our retirement accounts. I use them and love them, especially the Marriott and Westin.

Fractionals seem more logical for rich people to buy. Marriott can put that together.

 

[Eric B]

Ultra rich people can afford to do this to attain the highest levels, but would they do it? There's a snobbery that exists against owning timeshares.

I know some of my family members think I have not invested wisely with my timeshare purchases.

They are not an investment like putting more money into our retirement accounts. I use them and love them, especially the Marriott and Westin.

Fractionals seem more logical for rich people to buy. Marriott can put that together.

Fractionals are timeshares by another name. Ritz-Carlton Destination Club and St Regis Residence Club are two examples that Marriott now owns. RCDC has already been integrated to some extent in Abound; St Regis is coming for at least the top two tiers.

Sale of these took place through around 2008 or 2009, when they figured out it wasn’t a good product to sell, for them. There are other higher end fractionals out there, run using other models. This new set of tiers might work for them to spur sales, but I don’t see it capturing the ultra rich, just wannabes.

 

[Eric B]

I ran into an interesting lady here at the Waldorf Astoria Pedregal this week. She owns a business in Rancho Santa Fe and had just bought a 4 BR residence here at Pedregal that she lets the resort rent out for her when she’s not down here. She struck me as being quite well off and astute enough to take that kind of approach. I can’t see her wasting the 90 minutes sitting down with a Marriott timeshare salesman and being wowed by the Reserve and Pinnacle benefits. The target audience is the uninformed middle class masses.

 

[dougp26364]

@

Yeah, bummed by this development as well! However, do we really expect that MVC will be able to calculate these numbers correctly? Do we even know what they mean by this exclusion? For example, two of my enrolled weeks were purchased by my father-in-law before 2010, never enrolled by him, transferred to my wife and me, and then enrolled by us with a very minimal purchase of Club Points. Will the family transfer make these eligible for them to be classified as purchased from or through MVC, or will these be considered external weeks not eligible towards Reserve and Pinnacle status because my wife and I did not purchase them directly from MVC?

Keep in mind that it’s a salesman saying resale weeks won’t be counted. To date all I’ve seen are pieces of paper at the round table. Nothing official.

This is coming from the same sales staff that for years told us Hyatt would eventually be folded into the MVC family.

 

[Norcal5]

One of the selling points when I purchased direct to enroll my 7 weeks was I would be eligible for any future ownerships level changes given the amount of points my 7 weeks were worth. Guess that went out the window.

I was told this also.

 

[billymach4]

I ran into an interesting lady here at the Waldorf Astoria Pedregal this week. She owns a business in Rancho Santa Fe and had just bought a 4 BR residence here at Pedregal that she lets the resort rent out for her when she’s not down here. She struck me as being quite well off and astute enough to take that kind of approach. I can’t see her wasting the 90 minutes sitting down with a Marriott timeshare salesman and being wowed by the Reserve and Pinnacle benefits. The target audience is the uninformed middle class masses.

Yes these sort of people do exist. They can feed the Monster for our benefit

 

[jellen613]

Ultra rich people can afford to do this to attain the highest levels, but would they do it? There's a snobbery that exists against owning timeshares.

I know some of my family members think I have not invested wisely with my timeshare purchases.

They are not an investment like putting more money into our retirement accounts. I use them and love them, especially the Marriott and Westin.

Fractionals seem more logical for rich people to buy. Marriott can put that together.

Marriott has been trying to make the Abound points the currency that the buyers will use to book all their travel needs. That has been the theme at the last 4-5 presentations we have been to over the last 4-5 years. So the ultrarich can afford to use the currency and not see it as a timeshare product (whether they would choose to is another story, unlikely).
What MVC has not seemed to grasp is that the conversion rate of the Abound currency, for anything other than timeshare stays is abysmal.

We went to a presentation April 20th at Ocean Pointe, it was an Encore stay. We explained to the salesman that we had no interest in purchasing any more points/weeks, we use what we own. We have a small family, so we aren't traveling with a big group (which is when I think timeshares really have a lot of value). We chatted with him for about an hour, he didn't go over any of the changes, we just had a nice conversation, and got our 120,000 bonvoy points.

 

[sponger76]

What MVC has not seemed to grasp is that the conversion rate of the Abound currency, for anything other than timeshare stays is abysmal.

Pretty sure that MVC has grasped that; what they're hoping is that most prospective purchasers and/or users of conversion options won't grasp that until it's too late.

 

[davidvel]

Yes. The CC&Rs cover the weeks, and the seasons, and the view categories. What people don't get is that there are also view categories WITHIN the view categories and that's what MVC is looking to control.

For example, most of the ocean resorts have oceanview rooms, that's a category. If you own a week in an oceanview room and you book, that; you're guaranteed an oceanview room.

But within that category there are great oceanview rooms – unobstructed, on an upper floor, close to the water – and lousy oceanview rooms (lower floors, trees or other buildings blocking the view, etc.). MVC says: so long as we give you an oceanview room category, we've fulfilled out obligation. Within that category, we can assign rooms however suits us, including giving the BEST oceanview rooms to our best customers.

So far as I know, they can get away with that because the CC&Rs give them discretion to assign rooms within each room category. It may not feel right or fair, but they're willing to sacrifice right and fair for more profits.

I've never seen a CC&R that allows them to discriminate among owners as to the best rooms within a view category. Do you have a snip or cite?

 

[daviator]

I've never seen a CC&R that allows them to discriminate among owners as to the best rooms within a view category. Do you have a snip or cite?

I think the CC&Rs for the properties I’m familiar with, and probably most or all of the others, are silent on the subject of room assignments within view categories, leaving that for the management to work out

I think MVC takes that silence as carte blanche permission to do whatever they want with room assignments inside of view categories, including giving assignment priority to certain owners or types of reservations over others.

One could take the position that the CC&Rs don’t convey that right to them, but it would be an expensive legal fight which might well be a loser – a court might find that MVC’s position was defensible.

We also don’t know exactly how MVC does things behind the curtain. Perhaps they reserve a bunch of weeks a year in advance, every week, with the weeks they directly and indirectly control, and it’s those weeks they make available for points holders to reserve. In that case, those reservations would objectively deserve the best room assignments since they were made a year ahead, even if the points reservations were made much later.

I think they effectively get to control room assignments within view categories and, under the new management, have decided to aggressively monetize that ability.

 

[BigDawgTUG]

@

Keep in mind that it’s a salesman saying resale weeks won’t be counted. To date all I’ve seen are pieces of paper at the round table. Nothing official.

This is coming from the same sales staff that for years told us Hyatt would eventually be folded into the MVC family.

It’s printed at bottom of page 3 of the document Dean posted.

 

[dougp26364]

It’s printed at bottom of page 3 of the document Dean posted.

I know I’m a skeptic, but I’ve seen the official looking paperwork that wasn’t really official paperwork used as a sales ploy.

I don’t necessarily doubt this will happen. I also don’t necessarily believe it will happen either.

Maybe they have the updated levels on the website now. I haven’t been able to look today

 

[billymach4]

I know I’m a skeptic, but I’ve seen the official looking paperwork that wasn’t really official paperwork used as a sales ploy.

I don’t necessarily doubt this will happen. I also don’t necessarily believe it will happen either.

Maybe they have the updated levels on the website now. I haven’t been able to look today

Really wow. That paperwork looks really authentic. Then again a savvy sales sleaze with a good AI tool could really formulate that font style look and feel. If it proves to be a fake.... Just don't know.

However you did a sales gig today? You had the same spin and spiel? It is interesting that MVC has not pushed it on the website or any other official channel other than sales gigs.

 

[dioxide45]

We attended an update presentation yesterday. We felt that the benefits offered for the reserve and pinnacle levels is not worth the price.
We're at chairman level. They offered us the opportunity to buy 10,000 pts getting us to 25,000 pts, but would be grandfathered into the reserve level. Offer good until June.

I bet this wouldn't work out. The new level is 30K, what guaranty is there that they would grant you Reserve with only 25K? Unless I missed something, I am not seeing where they will "grandfather" people into Reserve who have 25K now as the level doesn't exist yet.

I ran into an interesting lady here at the Waldorf Astoria Pedregal this week. She owns a business in Rancho Santa Fe and had just bought a 4 BR residence here at Pedregal that she lets the resort rent out for her when she’s not down here. She struck me as being quite well off and astute enough to take that kind of approach. I can’t see her wasting the 90 minutes sitting down with a Marriott timeshare salesman and being wowed by the Reserve and Pinnacle benefits. The target audience is the uninformed middle class masses.

We were told at a presentation at Marco Island that rich people buy points to use for tours, cruises and such because they don't want to think about it. They just use the points to book all their travel. The actual value they get apparently doesn't matter.

 

[dioxide45]

I know I’m a skeptic, but I’ve seen the official looking paperwork that wasn’t really official paperwork used as a sales ploy.

I don’t necessarily doubt this will happen. I also don’t necessarily believe it will happen either.

Maybe they have the updated levels on the website now. I haven’t been able to look today

Since new new benefits really aren't becoming available until at least Summer 2026, we may not see any official announcement for a while. For now this is just sales fodder for them to use to prey on uninformed owners.

 

[daviator]

We were told at a presentation at Marco Island that rich people buy points to use for tours, cruises and such because they don't want to think about it. They just use the points to book all their travel. The actual value they get apparently doesn't matter.

That makes me laugh.

Rich people already own a currency that they can use to buy tours, cruises and such. It's called money, the U.S. Dollar. Furthermore, it is MUCH easier – and you have loads more choice – when booking those kinds of things with dollars as opposed to Abound points. So NO rich person is going to buy Abound points because it somehow makes booking other travel easier or better. Quite the opposite.

 

[bazzap]

I know I’m a skeptic, but I’ve seen the official looking paperwork that wasn’t really official paperwork used as a sales ploy.

I don’t necessarily doubt this will happen. I also don’t necessarily believe it will happen either.

Maybe they have the updated levels on the website now. I haven’t been able to look today

Sunday morning 3rd May over here in Europe and nothing at all showing on the Owner website when I just signed in


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[davidvel]

That makes me laugh.

Rich people already own a currency that they can use to buy tours, cruises and such. It's called money, the U.S. Dollar. Furthermore, it is MUCH easier – and you have loads more choice – when booking those kinds of things with dollars as opposed to Abound points. So NO rich person is going to buy Abound points because it somehow makes booking other travel easier or better. Quite the opposite.

Its like they want to be as preposterous as they can to just confuse and bamboozle. Or it is a test to see who they are dealing with to know how far they can go.

As usual it is patently absurd on its face. People don't become "rich people" by buying points that cost $2 (upfront over 20 years +MF) to get 25 cents in return.

 

[Red elephant]

I know I’m a skeptic, but I’ve seen the official looking paperwork that wasn’t really official paperwork used as a sales ploy.

I don’t necessarily doubt this will happen. I also don’t necessarily believe it will happen either.

Maybe they have the updated levels on the website now. I haven’t been able to look today

Website says stop at concierge to get information on new owner levels.

 

[amycurl]

Here’s the thing: timeshares are essentially a middle-class purchase. Enough disposable income and vacation time, but not so much that they can jet off to wherever they want, whenever they want. But the middle class in the US is disappearing as the economic structures that built it in post WW2 America are dismantled. And that leaves the whole industry in a quandary.

This might be MVC’s attempt at a solution, but I think they are misguided if they think the truly wealthy who could afford this would actually need it or desire it, as y’all have pointed out.


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[Hindsite]

This might be MVC’s attempt at a solution, but I think they are misguided if they think the truly wealthy who could afford this would actually need it or desire it, as y’all have pointed out.

Could it be that the 2 new levels are a bit of a red herring, a plausible response to address the concerns of the fractional owners to provide differentiation from the Vistana mandatory resale owners who got an unexpected uplift with the introduction of Abound.

The improvement to the benefits at owner and select levels seems more targeted at growing the sales organically and might just work. Time will tell.

 

[Fasttr]

Could it be that the 2 new levels are a bit of a red herring, a plausible response to address the concerns of the fractional owners to provide differentiation from the Vistana mandatory resale owners who got an unexpected uplift with the introduction of Abound.

The improvement to the benefits at owner and select levels seems more targeted at growing the sales organically and might just work. Time will tell.

And could it be something to talk about at the upcoming quarterly earnings call, that is forward looking, and an attempt to make analysts feel that good sales times are coming.

 

[Eric B]

Could it be that the 2 new levels are a bit of a red herring, a plausible response to address the concerns of the fractional owners to provide differentiation from the Vistana mandatory resale owners who got an unexpected uplift with the introduction of Abound.

The improvement to the benefits at owner and select levels seems more targeted at growing the sales organically and might just work. Time will tell.

That’s a possibility. One comment from the RCC St Thomas annual owners meeting was that there should be additional luxury exchange availability. I heard that from an RCC Aspen owner as well with regard to the loss of a couple RCC resorts over the years. This would be a way to provide St Regis access to fractional owners, but it would seem odd since they don’t actively sell those anymore.

We started out on the Vistana side and don’t have a lot of experience with Marriott going out of their way to keep current owners happy without the existence of a sales incentive. I don’t really expect that of any business organization, of course - the business of business is business, after all. Not counting enrolled resale points and weeks is understandable to some extent, but doesn’t follow the precedent from previous events, though, so I wonder if we’ll be pleasantly surprised when details are really made public vice provided via the concierges (aka body snatchers).

 

[RookWDW]

Its like they want to be as preposterous as they can to just confuse and bamboozle. Or it is a test to see who they are dealing with to know how far they can go.

As usual it is patently absurd on its face. People don't become "rich people" by buying points that cost $2 (upfront over 20 years +MF) to get 25 cents in return.

IDK about that. I work with almost only very wealthy people. I'm constantly astounded at how dumb with money most of them are. They got very wealthy doing one thing very well, then start throwing money around at "investments" that are often very poor ideas.