Embarc Resale Questions

[BrianLo]

Hi! Not enough posting mileage to PM @cd5 , but I figure this would hit the search algorithm and answer questions that I was not able to easily come across in a forum search.

I stumbled into an Embarc Panorama stay without realizing it was a timeshare, but am intrigued about the product. I'm intimately familiar with the DVC system and it does not seem that dissimilar. I live in Calgary, ski and work often on Vancouver Island where my parents are. Panorama, Whistler, Vancouver and Ucluelet as a portfolio would be a reasonably complimentary locations for me.

Now for my round of too many questions;

Resale
-It appears there is no ROFR process involved in resale Embarc?
-As an RTU, is the process relatively simple? I assume no titling is involved. What type of timeframe does it run over, is it just through member services? Is there any middle man even for paying the purchasing price?
-What are the full transfer fees / closing costs currently?
-Is the timeshare technically out of the US or Canadian? Just want to ensure I'm not getting sucked into US notaries or needing an ITIN, etc; probably none of that applies as an RTU anyways.
-Is a standard offer around 40 cents a point; or are these being more given away? I'm looking around a 10k range based on the points charts.
-Would 2026 points be paid for by the owner or expected as further reimbursement by myself the buyer?

Usage
-With some familiarity of difficult to book properties in the Disney portfolio... is Whistler semi-doable?
-What are the booking curves like for Panorama, possible to do non 6 night reservations in ski season? It seems under-occupied to me currently mid week.

Sustainability
-How have member fee escalation been, a current concern for membership, or reasonably matching inflation?
-Is there any timeframe for room refurbishments and hard-goods? The Pano room is in nice shape, the Whistler units I see online look 20 years out of style.


Thanks a ton for anyone with info! Any pitfalls I should be warned of are helpful.

 

[mountainboy]

@cd5 would be best to answer all of these.. She is on the board of Embarc & excellent resource for all things Embarc...
Seems like it is a simple xfr process & Resale Embarc has all the privileges as Retail and being in Canada & wanting access to all the Vancouver island Embarc TS's would be a positive for you (a significant limitation for a lot of us stateside folks) but will let her answer all the other related asks (I recall some of these answers from her posts here at HGVC forum)..
Best!

 

[cd5]

This is going to be very long!
ROFR - yes they could exercise it but haven't since the Hilton takeover 2 years ago. Hilton doesn't even ask for the price paid.
The sales process is very simple. There is a sales and transfer form to be completed and no notary etc required. Cost is $250usd usually paid by the buyer.
Is fairly quick, timelines are described in the document I will provide a link for which is in my One Drive.
Annual fees are paid in CAD however the $25 cancellation fee (for bookings) and the $35 transfer fee (for moving another member's points to an existing booking) are USD. We have no other transaction fees. Destination Xchange membership is free for all Embarc Members.
Our accounting is done in Canadian dollars and only those in the US are billed the annual fees in USD. Everywhere else around the world is billed CAD.
our titular head office is still in Vancouver although Las Vegas and Orlando do calls when our staff is busy and the Title office for membership sales is in Orlando (Hilton).
Standard offer would pay for paid points which would include this year's (were due Nov 30) and any banked points as well as another amount between 20-40¢ for the membership itself. The only time of the year they are for free is usually in Oct/Nov/Dec because the member doesn't want to pay the fees or is overdue. Transactions can't happen until everything is paid up to date.
Our timeshare was modeled on DVC so very similar. We can bank one year and borrow from one future year.
Whistler is Embarc most in-demand resort. Winter skiing at Whistler must generally be booked when the calendar opens 11 months out for 6+ nights, and is doable if you are "on it". We do also regularly have members in our FB group who post their week/s when they can't go and the condition of posting within our group is that the price has to be at cost (of fees) or less. Note that we only allow Embarc members/owners to join. Guest certificates are free.
Panorama is nowhere as tight as Whistler, and can be booked 5 nights or less, at 6 months out. Weekdays are easier as well.
Fees are kept as low as possible, the upward pressure has been due to staffing costs in ski areas in particular, because of the high cost of living. This year they went from 21¢ to 22¢ cad. Our clubs are very well managed and have well funded capital reserves which are invested to generate revenue. Our budgets are planned out (for renos and other major expenditures) for 30 years out so the fees remain balanced.
Renos - full reno of Whistler rooms is now complete but photos may not yet reflect that. Mont Tremblant is in 2026, and Sandestin in 2027.
Panorama is not due for a full reno but the bathrooms have/are currently being fully overhauled.
Easy to buy, easy to get rid of. Easy to get extra one-time use points from other members (you have to have already booked time to apply these to, and then your own points return to the year they came from to be reused). Every member has Destination Xchange membership for free and we can also use Interval and SFX Resorts with direct memberships with them.
Member Guidelines here:

Microsoft OneDrive

1drv.ms

Sales process here:

Microsoft OneDrive

1drv.ms

 

[cd5]

For someone interested in buying a membership, I suggest warning me first and then joining the Embarc-Hilton Exchange group on FB where I can put you in touch with members who want to sell. The Embarc ADS group (members only) is very active with transactions between members and we usually have at least a couple of members trying to sell their membership at any given time.

 

[BrianLo]

Thank you for such a detailed response, much appreciated!

 

[JW17]

How long does approval take to join the Facebook Group once applied to join?

 

[mountainboy]

How long does approval take to join the Facebook Group once applied to join?

@cd5 ?

 

[cd5]

If you're a member and answer the questions correctly, it's immediate.

 

[pzw]

Was going to start a new post but found this and will piggyback with a few questions.

Toured the Whistler property recently and was somewhat impressed with the building, mostly the location and how close it was to the Blackcomb lift. The room we saw looked great. Less impressed with the direct cost ($7.31 USD per point sticker price, one time only price of $5 p/p at 8k points, ~$4.7x at 10k points, bonus allotment of points with purchase). Looked at resale before hand so knew I wasn’t going direct.

Questions:
-Are there any restrictions? I see @cd5 said Interval is only available with direct. What else is there?
-Does resale have access to HGVMax?
-With it being an RTU across all 9 properties it means everyone has access at the same time to the most in demand times. Is walking an issue if it’s even possible?

 

[SmithOp]

Resale has access to DEX.

 

[GT75]

Does resale have access to HGVMax?

No

With it being an RTU across all 9 properties it means everyone has access at the same time to the most in demand times. Is walking an issue if it’s even possible?

Embarc is a trust point system, but your question about access, someone in the Embarc system will need to answer (@cd5). But it did look like she addressed Whistler ski season availability in post #3 above. There isn't a reservation fee to book, but there is to cancel (so I don't think that members will "walk" reservations).

I think the Embarc TS system is a very good system, but you will be limited to it (HGVC doesn't trade in Embarc and Embarc doesn't trade in HGVC). An option if you want HGVC with access to Whistler is to use a DEX trader. That is how I got booked a Whistler ski-week this year, and I already booked next year.

 

[cd5]

Was going to start a new post but found this and will piggyback with a few questions.

Toured the Whistler property recently and was somewhat impressed with the building, mostly the location and how close it was to the Blackcomb lift. The room we saw looked great. Less impressed with the direct cost ($7.31 USD per point sticker price, one time only price of $5 p/p at 8k points, ~$4.7x at 10k points, bonus allotment of points with purchase). Looked at resale before hand so knew I wasn’t going direct.

Questions:
-Are there any restrictions? I see @cd5 said Interval is only available with direct. What else is there?
-Does resale have access to HGVMax?
-With it being an RTU across all 9 properties it means everyone has access at the same time to the most in demand times. Is walking an issue if it’s even possible?

With Embarc you have access to DEX (free no fee to join), Interval ($99usd for 2 or 3 yr membership) and SFX Resorts (multi-year memberships that are cheaper the more yrs you join for).
Everyone has access across the 9 resorts (plus 4 Diamond locations in Europe) at the same time (11 months out for 6+ nights or 6 months out for 5- nights). The cancellation fee is $25usd, the only other fee is $35usd to transfer points to / from another member which makes it easy to rent points from another member if one is short or has borrowed from future yr. All other transactions are free whether they are online or by phone (guest certificates, booking etc).
You cannot walk - our booking system doesn't allow walking.
Resale does not have access to Max but that access isn't as great as they make it out to be anyway. Our members (those with Max in our 8,000 member Facebook group) report being very disappointed with the availability which looks great on paper but in actuality is poor. Max is an exchange system - you can only start booking 6-7 months out and someone has to trade out of a resort so one can trade in.
Cost to transfer a membership is $250usd, no need to notarize or involve a broker. The entire process involves 1 form which is sent to Hilton title. ROFR is generally not exercised, in fact Hilton doesn't even ask how much is being paid by the buyer.
Memberships can cost anywhere from $0 to $.70 Usd per point and many sales also offer extra "saved" points at the cost of the annual fee (16¢ usd) per point. Anything more than that is overpriced (I saw an ad yesterday for $17k for "Whistler" points which is way too much for a resale).
FYI - I put links to 2 guides in post #3 above

 

[pzw]

Thank you very much for the responses. Very helpful.

My only concern is the 9 resort portfolio. Our biggest draw is Whistler, but we don’t know how long we will be in the PNW and if we will want to commit to that trip in case we move. The other Canadian properties aren’t as much of a draw but I could see us giving them a try over the years.

I need to continue researching DEX, how the system works, and what value Embarc has when trading. If anyone can point me toward a guide that would be appreciated.

@cd5 if I do decide, I will reach out in case you can connect me with members looking to sell in the private group.

 

[cd5]

Embarc trades very well and we do have 2 locations in France (Paris & Nice) as well as 1 in Portugal and another in Italy to book with just points within our own booking system (Diamond locations made available since 2016). Our resorts are considered "premier" in Interval and in high tier in SFX. For Interval, 7000 points will get you a premier levél resort, 1 bedroom at peak season such as a Marriott or Disney location. 9000 points for a 2 bdrm. For SFX, a low season (Oct) deposit of a 1 bedroom in Whistler (~5000 points) trades into the same size room for California (Palm Desert), Hawaii (HGVC Kingsland, Grand Waikikian), Mexico, Asia pretty easily at peak at superior resorts. In fact, with SFX you can trade into Embarc (it's not blacked out) and for less points (+cash) than Embarc points value would cost.
For DEX, our points are worth as follows:
TIER
6 = 12000 points
5 = 10000 points
4 = 8000 points
3 = 6000 points
2 = 4000 points
1 = 2000 points

I'm happy to help if you have more questions.

 

[pzw]

Thank you for the explanation, it’s making a lot more sense now.

Would you say the for sale ads in the FB group are similar to what’s on here price wise:

Search Timeshares for Sale, Rent, or Exchange by Owner | Save Thousands on your next Family Vacation!TUG Timeshare Marketplace Search Results - Embarc Points For Sale Points

Search thousands of timeshares for sale, for rent, or exchange by owner. Save money dealing directly with the owners—no hidden fees, just great deals for your next vacation!TUG Timeshare Marketplace Search, Embarc Points, For Sale, Points

tug2.com

 

[SmithOp]

Thank you for the explanation, it’s making a lot more sense now.

Would you say the for sale ads in the FB group are similar to what’s on here price wise:

Search Timeshares for Sale, Rent, or Exchange by Owner | Save Thousands on your next Family Vacation!TUG Timeshare Marketplace Search Results - Embarc Points For Sale Points

Search thousands of timeshares for sale, for rent, or exchange by owner. Save money dealing directly with the owners—no hidden fees, just great deals for your next vacation!TUG Timeshare Marketplace Search, Embarc Points, For Sale, Points

tug2.com

The negotiations are private on FB.

Some of those TUG listings are bargains, avoid those $7k ads. You will want at least 6k points.

The best one is 14,600 for $1k, although his closing costs are triple what Hilton charges direct, and they want 2025 fees but I don't see the saved points listed.

 

[allsun365]

About how long does it take to sell/give away unwanted points? Are people always able to find a buyer?

 

[WorldT]

The negotiations are private on FB.

Some of those TUG listings are bargains, avoid those $7k ads. You will want at least 6k points.

The best one is 14,600 for $1k, although his closing costs are triple what Hilton charges direct, and they want 2025 fees but I don't see the saved points listed.

That depends on if everyone stick to the posted prices. Combining two purchases may actually come out cheaper.

 

[cd5]

About how long does it take to sell/give away unwanted points? Are people always able to find a buyer?

Very easy. Within a day or two usually in our ADS group. A post generally gets 4 or 5 declarations of interest within the day its posted. Of course that depends on price too. If someone is asking for an unrealistic price, it can take them a while to figure out they're going to be stuck with it and reduce it.

 

[cd5]

That depends on if everyone stick to the posted prices. Combining two purchases may actually come out cheaper.

Yes, that is often done as the cost is only $250 per transaction. The minimum that can be bought for a new membership is 6000 points however after that one can add as many or as few points as one wants.

 

[cd5]

The negotiations are private on FB.

Some of those TUG listings are bargains, avoid those $7k ads. You will want at least 6k points.

The best one is 14,600 for $1k, although his closing costs are triple what Hilton charges direct, and they want 2025 fees but I don't see the saved points listed.

If 2025 fees aren't yet paid, they're almost too late to sell. They were due at the end of November 2024. Hilton takes them back after 18 months and they're coming to that deadline in May...
Why would the closing costs be 3 times the Hilton transfer fee? As well, even if one paid the 2025 fees, the points would be unuseable, they've expired. You can't bank if you're not current in your account. That's not a very good deal...

 

[pzw]

Yes, that is often done as the cost is only $250 per transaction. The minimum that can be bought for a new membership is 6000 points however after that one can add as many or as few points as one wants.

Are most transactions just seller and buyer? Is there no title company or some sort of escrow to ensure funds are transmitted and transfer documents sent to Hilton?

 

[cd5]

Direct between buyer and seller. There's no title or escrow. The ADS group is made up of current members of Embarc and we haven't had a single report of a problem since it was set up in 2019.
The amounts aren't that large and there are precautions that can be taken such as paying 50% when the transfer fee is taken by Hilton and the rest when the account has been created and points added to it. There's also a large number of rental transactions between members with zero reported problems.
Basically though the transaction is considered "done" once Hilton has the transfer form in hand and has charged the $250. The fee is paid over the phone with Hilton, by credit card.
ps: the transfer form is just a 1 page document with the name, member #, address of seller, space to detail what is being sold (points starting in 2027, or 2026 with all paid points in the account etc and the signatures of buyers/sellers. Very simple, not at all complicated.
We have the official process posted for members to refer to and I believe I put a link for it as well in this thread.