Parking fee for non-owners at Bonnet Creek

[Arimaas]

But selling parking at $50 a space a day doesn't make nearly as much as selling hotel rooms for $500 per night.

More overhead for the rooms than a parking lot. My guess is the margins are betrer on parking fees than for a room

Also from the looks of the license plates in the lot, lots of people drive (myself included). Self driving Waymo’s will not impact that.

 

[Floridaman76]

But selling parking at $50 a space a day doesn't make nearly as much as selling hotel rooms for $500 per night.

Wyndham has made it pretty clear they are not in the business of expanding their footprint for rooms at any resorts. When was the last time they built new towers or condo buildings at ANY of their resort properties?

Or for that matter expanding their portfolio at all recently.

Well, they did CLOSE 15 resorts. I'm sure somebody got a HUGE bonus for that move.

 

[jp10558]

I could see stuff like Waymo maybe making "long term lots" like outside airports by 3rd parties more popular. I.e. if you drive down from somewhere and could park for $5 a day or something and just waymo to and from the parks from BC I imagine it'd make paying for parking at the resort and at the park, and apparently everywhere else less appealing. Heck, they might do a brisk business at $20 a day. Of course, this only matters to people who care about saving money vs convenience and I kinda doubt that's a good bet to make. The masses are all about convenience and others have pointed out - no one goes to Disney to save money.

My problem with all these junk fees is it really does make it unfair for exchangers, but I guess most systems don't want you using RCI or II anyway, they want you to own where you stay. At least using CWS points doesn't currently treat you like an exchanger ... yet.

And even for renters, I still come back to - are they going to start charging for towels because you could bring your own and why should MFs pay for those? TP?/Tissues/Dish soap/Shower suppplies (Smuggs is the only place that does this right now, I don't want it to spread). Heck, I'm waiting for the "Bed fee" (you could bring an air mattress).... The "Junk Fee" logic continuously annoys me because it's never set up truly A La Carte either - I'd not pay for the TV or cable for instance, and why is the "Fitness Center" included? I don't want to pay for that either. The pool? I only ever use a hot tub - take that off my bill. Grumble Grumble.

 

[TolmiePeak]

Wyndham has made it pretty clear they are not in the business of expanding their footprint for rooms at any resorts. When was the last time they built new towers or condo buildings at ANY of their resort properties?

Or for that matter expanding their portfolio at all recently.

Well, they did CLOSE 15 resorts. I'm sure somebody got a HUGE bonus for that move.

Yes I think many companies way over built in Orlando. I don't understand how Disney is able to charge outrageous rates for their properties. Sure they are closer but getting to the parks is still a big hassle. I prefer Disneyland where you can stay offsite and walk to the front gate in 10 minutes. Plus you don't need a car in Anaheim.

 

[geist1223]

The last 2 newly built Resorts of which I am aware (they are shared with Worldmark) are Portland, Oregon and Moab, Utah. Now part of Moab is newly Branded as Eddie Bauer.

 

[Floridaman76]

Yes I think many companies way over built in Orlando. I don't understand how Disney is able to charge outrageous rates for their properties. Sure they are closer but getting to the parks is still a big hassle. I prefer Disneyland where you can stay offsite and walk to the front gate in 10 minutes. Plus you don't need a car in Anaheim.

Somebody I work with is a Disney annual passholder and also owns DVC. Before they bought into DVC, they did one of those "preview" weekends, like Wyndham does where you get to pay to test drive DVC ownership. After they did that, they told me about this and I let them know that I owned Wyndham and they had a place at Bonnet Creek. I offered to let him and his wife tag along with us for an upgraded stay we had a few months later so they could "test drive" Wyndham.

They really liked Bonnet Creek, but one of the things that DVC offers that nobody else does is early entrance and late stays at the parks, and also free bus into the park and back to the resort.

To me, that wouldn't be worth the STEEP premium you pay for DVC, even if you buy resale...

But the ended up buying DVC. Just wanted to share the differences. I think his wife talked him into that, but that's another story.

 

[jp10558]

To me, that wouldn't be worth the STEEP premium you pay for DVC, even if you buy resale...

But the ended up buying DVC. Just wanted to share the differences. I think his wife talked him into that, but that's another story.

Yea, I guess my other cousins new boyfriend REALLY wants to stay on property and is willing to pay for it. I had offered to book a pretty cheap TS cause Orlando. I'm just not enough of a Disney person, or an early riser to want to pay the premium at all. I know the parking at the park is a lot, and IDK if you can ride some bus in or not if you're staying off property.

 

[Floridaman76]

Yea, I guess my other cousins new boyfriend REALLY wants to stay on property and is willing to pay for it. I had offered to book a pretty cheap TS cause Orlando. I'm just not enough of a Disney person, or an early riser to want to pay the premium at all. I know the parking at the park is a lot, and IDK if you can ride some bus in or not if you're staying off property.

This guy's wife is one of those really cultish type Disney people, so i'm sure that played into the decision.

 

[paxsarah]

About the same amount once Waymo comes to town. Waymo will eliminate the need to bring your own car to Disneyworld. Or a private company could come in and improve the public transportation system in Disney. Just like Brightline.

I don’t understand what Waymo will do that Uber/Lyft hasn’t already done. Specifically, 10-15 years into rideshare culture I’m not sure why a driverless option will somehow move the people who are still renting cars for Disney vacations.

 

[TolmiePeak]

I don’t understand what Waymo will do that Uber/Lyft hasn’t already done. Specifically, 10-15 years into rideshare culture I’m not sure why a driverless option will somehow move the people who are still renting cars for Disney vacations.

Because Waymo will be a far safer option than driving your own car or getting a human driven Lyft. For people concerned about their safety Waymo will be an excellent option.

 

[Floridaman76]

Because Waymo will be a far safer option than driving your own car or getting a human driven Lyft. For people concerned about their safety Waymo will be an excellent option.

I don't know whether to laugh at this or cry.

Unless you are some under 25 GenZ individual who is scared of their own shadow and can't be bothered to learn how to drive or is too scared to drive, your premise is completely bogus.

I will take my chances driving myself or even trusting a human to drive me in a uber/lyft/cab before getting into one of those driverless things.

By the way, I don't think those are even legal in Florida yet.

These companies betting their entire business model on GenZ not being bothered to learn how to drive is pretty pathetic. I have two GenZ children that we had to fight at 15/16 to learn how to drive because "I will never need to drive myself anywhere". Don't get me started.

 

[TolmiePeak]

I don't know whether to laugh at this or cry.

Unless you are some under 25 GenZ individual who is scared of their own shadow and can't be bothered to learn how to drive or is too scared to drive, your premise is completely bogus.

Driving is by far and away the most dangerous activity you do on a daily basis. 40000 people are killed in the US and millions are severely injured every year. Have you seen how people drive? Drunk, distracted, very aggressive, etc. Human drivers are not safe. Half of them are below average.

 

[dceggert]

Question: is "owner" referring to a deed holder at a Wyndham Resort or just at Bonnet Creek?

I suppose this may end up being the latest "offer" for sitting through the endless updates; free parking.

 

[paxsarah]

Because Waymo will be a far safer option than driving your own car or getting a human driven Lyft. For people concerned about their safety Waymo will be an excellent option.

It may be true, but that doesn't mean that the people who currently rent a car for their Disney vacations will be moved by that knowledge (if they're even aware of it) to completely change their habits. My son goes to college in Atlanta and took a Waymo once. He also takes Uber, frequently drives himself, occasionally rents a Bird scooter, and I don't think he's set foot on Marta since he moved there. The existence of Waymo hasn't changed his habits.

 

[Floridaman76]

Driving is by far and away the most dangerous activity you do on a daily basis. 40000 people are killed in the US and millions are severely injured every year. Have you seen how people drive? Drunk, distracted, very aggressive, etc. Human drivers are not safe. Half of them are below average.

I think the jury is still very much out on the safety of "driverless" vehicles. I have been driving for 40 odd years and have never been in an accident that was my fault. I have been in a few accidents that were other people's fault, including one serious one in 2023 that was caused by a commercial vehicle (18 wheeler) plowing into my truck. Since driverless 18 wheelers are nowhere on the horizon, I fail to see how that one would have been prevented. In fact if I was in one of those tiny autonomous vehicles, I would probably be dead now.

Like I said, I will take my chances. They are also not legal in Florida yet, so they won't be coming to Bonnet Creek any time soon.

 

[paxsarah]

tiny

They're Jaguar SUVs, fwiw.

 

[Arimaas]

Question: is "owner" referring to a deed holder at a Wyndham Resort or just at Bonnet Creek?

I suppose this may end up being the latest "offer" for sitting through the endless updates; free parking.

I’m guessing a club Wyndham deed holder. Not BC specific.

 

[jp10558]

I don’t understand what Waymo will do that Uber/Lyft hasn’t already done. Specifically, 10-15 years into rideshare culture I’m not sure why a driverless option will somehow move the people who are still renting cars for Disney vacations.

I'm assuming at least part of the thinking is eventually they'll be more available and cheaper than human rideshare drivers? I don't think that is currently the case as they're still new and high-tech and also getting a bit of the branded premium. And I don't know if it'll come out this way, but I can see a future where just like with so many other automations, they end up cheaper than alternatives.

What I'm thinking is - technically (even though I bet Uber/Lyft screw over the drivers) you need ~ 3 human drivers for 24 hour coverage(or figure for day only coverage across 2 days or whatever timeframe, I think this all holds true) with no "backup". You probably need 4-5 in reality to cover sick/vacation time etc. (While the drivers for rideshare aren't employees, they still as independent contractors need to cover their own potential sick time or time off for vacation or whatever, so at least implicitly they're including that in their pricing they're willing to accept.) With current independent contractors that means you're also implicitly covering the cost for 4-5 cars as well. Things like Waymo need 2-3 cars for the same coverage, to enable charging/fueling, repairs, and cleaning. But it's still 1-2 less cars for the same coverage.

So that's less capital to amortize. They also have no labor cost and no need for tips from consumers. (For the driving, probably still need technicians etc, but it'll be like any fleet mechanics or bus cleaners etc - way smaller numbers across a bunch of cars vs paying each owner/operator to do all the tasks on a 1 to 1 basis).

In the long term, I could absolutely see it becoming like many consumer goods where the more automated versions are rather cheap and the handmade versions are very expensive. I guess sort of like paying at a laundarymat and paying a maid to do your laundry or whatver.

 

[jp10558]

I’m guessing a club Wyndham deed holder. Not BC specific.

Probably technically a booking with Club Wyndham Points - other methods probably don't get you free parking

 

[Arimaas]

Probably technically a booking with Club Wyndham Points - other methods probably don't get you free parking

yes. Sorry I should have been more specific. A club Wyndham owner staying on their points.

 

[TheHolleys87]

Since driverless 18 wheelers are nowhere on the horizon

Actually, they’re here in Texas - https://www.fox7austin.com/news/driverless-semi-trucks-hit-roads-texas.

 

[paxsarah]

I'm assuming at least part of the thinking is eventually they'll be more available and cheaper than human rideshare drivers? I don't think that is currently the case as they're still new and high-tech and also getting a bit of the branded premium. And I don't know if it'll come out this way, but I can see a future where just like with so many other automations, they end up cheaper than alternatives.

What I'm thinking is - technically (even though I bet Uber/Lyft screw over the drivers) you need ~ 3 human drivers for 24 hour coverage(or figure for day only coverage across 2 days or whatever timeframe, I think this all holds true) with no "backup". You probably need 4-5 in reality to cover sick/vacation time etc. (While the drivers for rideshare aren't employees, they still as independent contractors need to cover their own potential sick time or time off for vacation or whatever, so at least implicitly they're including that in their pricing they're willing to accept.) With current independent contractors that means you're also implicitly covering the cost for 4-5 cars as well. Things like Waymo need 2-3 cars for the same coverage, to enable charging/fueling, repairs, and cleaning. But it's still 1-2 less cars for the same coverage.

So that's less capital to amortize. They also have no labor cost and no need for tips from consumers. (For the driving, probably still need technicians etc, but it'll be like any fleet mechanics or bus cleaners etc - way smaller numbers across a bunch of cars vs paying each owner/operator to do all the tasks on a 1 to 1 basis).

In the long term, I could absolutely see it becoming like many consumer goods where the more automated versions are rather cheap and the handmade versions are very expensive. I guess sort of like paying at a laundarymat and paying a maid to do your laundry or whatver.

Yes, I see that happening over time. But the initial assertion seemed to imply a complete and fast transition, as if humans aren't irrational actors in a lot of ways and slow to change their habits.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Somebody I work with is a Disney annual passholder and also owns DVC. Before they bought into DVC, they did one of those "preview" weekends, like Wyndham does where you get to pay to test drive DVC ownership. After they did that, they told me about this and I let them know that I owned Wyndham and they had a place at Bonnet Creek. I offered to let him and his wife tag along with us for an upgraded stay we had a few months later so they could "test drive" Wyndham.

They really liked Bonnet Creek, but one of the things that DVC offers that nobody else does is early entrance and late stays at the parks, and also free bus into the park and back to the resort.

To me, that wouldn't be worth the STEEP premium you pay for DVC, even if you buy resale...

But the ended up buying DVC. Just wanted to share the differences. I think his wife talked him into that, but that's another story.

We have been seeing reports of people paying amounts to Wyndham that are higher than what we paid for Disney, and we can book more nights with our DVC points. We paid $100K to Disney for 1,000 points. 1,000 Disney points stretches further than 300K points with Wyndham.

 

[jeff123]

I think the jury is still very much out on the safety of "driverless" vehicles. I have been driving for 40 odd years and have never been in an accident that was my fault. I have been in a few accidents that were other people's fault, including one serious one in 2023 that was caused by a commercial vehicle (18 wheeler) plowing into my truck. Since driverless 18 wheelers are nowhere on the horizon, I fail to see how that one would have been prevented. In fact if I was in one of those tiny autonomous vehicles, I would probably be dead now.

Like I said, I will take my chances. They are also not legal in Florida yet, so they won't be coming to Bonnet Creek any time soon.

It looks like they are coming to Bonnnet Creek sooner than you thought.

Waymo self-driving cars officially hit the road in Orlando

For now, the self-driving cars are operating in a 60-mile radius from Orlando to Vineland

www.wesh.com

 

[HitchHiker71]

I agree. Not a fiasco in the making, but it is likely a good indication of things to come down the road. I guess if they aren't charging owners, it could be part of the marketing on the sales floor of owning your vacation and locking in the price. I sitll think it's a slipery slope. I understand charging for parking in urban locations, but Orlando?

One could easily surmise that owners will eventually be subject to parking fees, unless of course you agree to attend a sales update!