New scientific paper: offshore wind turbines alter marine eco-system, could shift ocean currents

[emeryjre]

Brett, your repetitive posting of the same item over and over, probably at least 10 times, and always without any link to show where it came from does not make it more believable. If you claim wind or solar is so cheap, give us an example of someplace that heavily uses wind / solar with cheap electric rates. The reality is that those places pay through the nose, which is real world evidence that your repeat postings are a load of hooey.

Indeed, here is an interesting example. When the wind does not blow and the wind turbines in Ontario do not spin, then it SAVES Ontario electric customers money.

Three days of Wind Doldrums Saved Ontario Ratepayer/taxpayers Money

As most people are aware, if the wind isn’t blowing those IWT (industrial wind turbines) aren’t spinning and when that happens it reduces electricity costs. A prior look at how those IWT were spinn…

parkergallantenergyperspectivesblog.wordpress.com

Maybe you should listen to Dr. Patrick Moore, co-founder of the environmentalist organization Greenpeace, again as he explodes your myth:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1989789662362452166

When has anyone here claimed that wind and solar will REPLACE other forms of electricity generation

Sometimes you just dig up videos without regard for the concept

Especially if you think the speaker has somehow changed his stance

 

["Roger"]

And here is a good piece by Dr. Bjorn Lomborg, president of the think tank Copenhagen Consensus Center, and former Director of the Danish government's Environmental Assessment Institute, on how reliance on wind and solar led to the massive blackout across Spain and Portugal earlier this year:

Certainly not clear cut...

Renewables Did Not Cause Spanish Blackout, Investigations Find

e360.yale.edu

Fact VS Fiction: Did Renewable Energy Cause the Spain Power Outage? – Utah Clean Energy

utahcleanenergy.org

https://www.npr.org/2025/10/08/nx-s1-5534949/spain-blackout-misinformation-renewable-energy

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/spains-grid-operator-release-own-report-april-blackout-2025-06-18/

Investigation finds renewables not responsible for Spain’s April blackout

Spain has released the results of its investigation into the April blackout, which ruled out renewables as the cause of the disruption.

www.pv-tech.org

Joint Statement: Spanish Government report on the Iberian Blackout

 

[Carolinian]

I don’t live in Australia
I don’t live in Europe
I don’t care what happens there

I do care what happens in US

Similar policies bring similar results. Smart people take account of the results of policies elsewhere in deciding what to do in their own backyard.

Land intensive wind and solar are a threat to farmland as well as to forests:

Young farmer’s crusade to protect vanishing farmland pits her against solar developers in New York

A social media influencer bought a farm in upstate New York. She says her investment is now threatened by the "aggressive" tactics of solar developers who are buying up farmland where ever they can find it, and New York's siting regulations make little room for public participation in the process.

justthenews.com

 

[Carolinian]

Certainly not clear cut...

Renewables Did Not Cause Spanish Blackout, Investigations Find

e360.yale.edu

Fact VS Fiction: Did Renewable Energy Cause the Spain Power Outage? – Utah Clean Energy

utahcleanenergy.org

https://www.npr.org/2025/10/08/nx-s1-5534949/spain-blackout-misinformation-renewable-energy

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/spains-grid-operator-release-own-report-april-blackout-2025-06-18/

Investigation finds renewables not responsible for Spain’s April blackout

Spain has released the results of its investigation into the April blackout, which ruled out renewables as the cause of the disruption.

www.pv-tech.org

Joint Statement: Spanish Government report on the Iberian Blackout

Yeah, the socialist and globalist Spanish government has been working hard in denial and coverup, and the climate industrial complex has been heavily engaged, too. And with all the corruption scandals in Spain rocking its governing party and even relatives of its prime minister, they aren't the most trustworthy bunch. It was a "green energy" related corruption scandal that brought down the last Socialist government in neighboring Portugal and that party has continued hemoraging voter share since.

At least the self-styled "wind and solar superpower" state of South Australia was more honest about the only statewide blackout to ever occur there. They admitted it happened when strong spring storms caused some wind turbines to automatically shut down, which cascaded through the grid, taking the whole thing down.

 

[Brett]

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.

 

[Carolinian]

When has anyone here claimed that wind and solar will REPLACE other forms of electricity generation

Sometimes you just dig up videos without regard for the concept

Especially if you think the speaker has somehow changed his stance

What do you call posts about countries going 100% "renewable"? And intermittent sources of power start to screw up the system a long time before getting to that point

The videos I post come from people MUCH more well versed in this subject than you. Maybe that is why you resent them.

That last video with an Australian journalist who has taken a good hard look at this issue and a former Australian deputy prime minister has a lot of very good information, for example. It is a bit long but well worth listening to.

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So what that the international organization of the climate industrial complex, IRENA makes such a claim? As usual, you do not identify who IRENA is.

 

[emeryjre]

I would be willing to bet I am as qualified to discuss electricity pricing in the US as they are
I am not qualified to discuss electriciy pricing in other countries
Nor do I care how they choose to run their electric companies and grids

 

[emeryjre]

So what that the international organization of the climate industrial complex, IRENA makes such a claim? As usual, you do not identify who IRENA is.

What are you talking about??

 

[easyrider]

There you go again Bill, with your conspiracy style citation of a tiny snippet of minisule truth to try to support a much broader concept which is wholly unsupported by your snipped info.

I (and most others here) have been talking about standard PV solar panels. Some have referenced other technology, but that is not what the day/night discussion is about.

Your cite references an experimental proof in concept panel that produced 50 milliwatts under perfect conditions. That wouldn't power a tiny LED (like on a TV remote) for more than an hour or 2. It is a meaningless amount of energy. You actually could store infinitely more energy using a small battery or even a capacitor.

So no, there are no nighttime PV panels (or even these experimental ones) that produce any meaningful amounts of electricity at night. You can thank my posterior who explained this to you like a 4 year old.

You often use smear instead of admitting you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. I will try to explain it to you. You are wrong again.

Bill

 

[emeryjre]

Another cost of electricity from Coal Story
From Forbes

It may be behind a paywall, but I get 3 stories a month free for being registered with them
I have no subscription

Coal Power Costs Soar 28% Since 2021, Rising Faster Than Inflation

Coal power costs skyrocketed 28% since 2021, as aging plants and fuel get more expensive, forcing consumers to pay billions in higher energy costs.

www.forbes.com

 

[Carolinian]

What are you talking about??

Brett posted one of his big headlines, as usual without any link or substance, and the headline itself referred to the claim coming from the largest trade group of the climate industrial complex, IRENA. Self serving and tooting their own horn, while still ignoring the overall system costs.

The Green Lobby's Dishonest Crusade for Solar and Wind

You wake up to an alarm, flick on the light, brew coffee, and drive to work. Every step requires energy – the stuff that shares the coin of physical reality with matter, the E in E = MC2.

www.realclearmarkets.com

 

[Carolinian]

I would be willing to bet I am as qualified to discuss electricity pricing in the US as they are
I am not qualified to discuss electriciy pricing in other countries
Nor do I care how they choose to run their electric companies and grids

The principles are the same everywhere - intermittency versus dispatchable base load power.

 

[Carolinian]

Here is one of the pollution impacts of wind turbines. When one blade of an offshore wind turbine shattered off Nantucket and littered the beach and ocean with debris, some of them hazardous, the manufacturer had to pay out $10.5 million in a settlement for damages.

Town, GE Vernova agree to $10.5 million settlement over wind turbine blade failure

(July 11, 2025) In a first-of-its-kind agreement, Nantucket has secured a $10.5 million settlement from GE Vernova over last year’s offshore wind turbine blade failure, an incident that littered the

www.ack.net

That was for one blade disintegrating in rather calm weather. Imagine the damage if a hurricane took out a whole wind farm or a series of wind farms..

These things shattering on land can also make farmland unusable.

 

[emeryjre]

The principles are the same everywhere - intermittency versus dispatchable base load power.

Tariffs rates, grid costs, local, municipal, state taxes all vary by country
Cost of fuel, transport costs, wages, retirement contributions, benefits costs
Etc., etc.
These are all variable inputs in an electric cost structure

But go ahead tell me these are uniform from country to country

The European Countries are not flush with fossil fuel
This is a huge factor in the cost of gasoline, and home heating oil
And in the costs of electricity production

But this has never fit your view of electrical costs

It is all because of wind and solar that electrical prices vary

 

[emeryjre]

Here is one of the pollution impacts of wind turbines. When one blade of an offshore wind turbine shattered off Nantucket and littered the beach and ocean with debris, some of them hazardous, the manufacturer had to pay out $10.5 million in a settlement for damages.

Town, GE Vernova agree to $10.5 million settlement over wind turbine blade failure

(July 11, 2025) In a first-of-its-kind agreement, Nantucket has secured a $10.5 million settlement from GE Vernova over last year’s offshore wind turbine blade failure, an incident that littered the

www.ack.net

That was more one blade disintegrating. Imagine the damage if a hurricane took out a whole wind farm.

These things shattering on land can also make farmland unusable.

It is never a nice thing to have a failure of a part
They paid the bill
Life moves on
The energy firms make improvements to the blades and do everything within advancing science to make them better

While transporting fuel and oil, some of which is used in fossil fuel plants
There are plenty of accidents
This one from MSN
A failure of a pipeline Washington State

MSN

Here is one in North Dakota
A real mess
About 55 Million dollars on losses and damages

Crack along weld caused Keystone Pipeline spill, company says

The operator of the Keystone Pipeline says a crack along a weld caused an oil leak in southeast North Dakota earlier this year.

www.aberdeennews.com

Here is an example of the cost of real big fossil fuel screw up

https://www.noaa.gov/explainers/deepwater-horizon-oil-spill-settlements-where-money-went

 

[emeryjre]

Brett posted one of his big headlines, as usual without any link or substance, and the headline itself referred to the claim coming from the largest trade group of the climate industrial complex, IRENA. Self serving and tooting their own horn, while still ignoring the overall system costs.

The Green Lobby's Dishonest Crusade for Solar and Wind

You wake up to an alarm, flick on the light, brew coffee, and drive to work. Every step requires energy – the stuff that shares the coin of physical reality with matter, the E in E = MC2.

www.realclearmarkets.com

Wow,
A lobbyist tooted his/her own horn
I am sure glad the oil lobby, the natural gas lobby, the coal lobby, the nuclear lobby, the geothermal lobby, the butterfly lobby, the malted milk lobby have always been squeaky clean in their allegations

I am glad the cost of the new power links are always included in the cost of every power plant

The cost of electricity has been calculated without including the cost of the grid because the grid is a separate element

It is broken down on electric bills as a separate line item

I realize politicians and energy planners are really not very smart
It is only because you and the people that think like you have figured out
When it is dark
When the wind isn't blowing
Solar and "windmills" do not produce power
You consistently never look at the "blended" cost of electricity
It is what other people do that have to make decisions about fulfilling our energy needs
If the oil industry lobby had its way
It would only be done with oil
They would flare the natural gas as a waste product

As for California and solar
The market went sideways after the shutdown of Sempra Energy's San Onofre Nuclear plant
A plant I lived near for many years
The Paradise Fire
The San Diego Fires
Many smaller Fires
Have contributed significantly to the cost of electricity in the State
Without Solar power (most of which is located on Residential Homes)
The energy bills would be much higher for everyone

But I realize you have read some headlines and are an expert on the state of power in California

 

[Carolinian]

Tariffs rates, grid costs, local, municipal, state taxes all vary by country
Cost of fuel, transport costs, wages, retirement contributions, benefits costs
Etc., etc.
These are all variable inputs in an electric cost structure

But go ahead tell me these are uniform from country to country

The European Countries are not flush with fossil fuel
This is a huge factor in the cost of gasoline, and home heating oil
And in the costs of electricity production

But this has never fit your view of electrical costs

It is all because of wind and solar that electrical prices vary

I have posted materials from people a lot smarter than you or I on this subject who point to the intermittency of wind and solar as the factor pushing up the rates. You may not get it, but they and a growing number of others, DO. Again, the basic principles are the same everywhere - dispatchable base load power that can be depended on versus chaotically intermittent wind and solar.

Lack of oil and gas in Europe means that choose other sources of conventional electricity. With France, it is nuclear. With Poland, it is coal. But those countries smart enough to get on with fracking are finding gas, like Hungary. Some like the UK have found it but the politicians won't let them develop it with fracking. The UK and Norway do have the large North Sea oil / gas fields. Romania also has substantial oil and gas resources.. When Finland powered up a big nuclear power plant this year, electric rates fell by 70%, and that is constant power, not on and off wind and solar.

For countries that went heavy on wind and solar, they saw their electric rates skyrocket from what they had previously been. In one of the videos, I posted, for example, it was pointed out that British electric rates tripled due to the "Net Zero" policies pushing wind and solar. No wonder the party leading by double digits in the polls calls that "Net Stupid" and one of the two parties jockeying for second place has also formally come out against Net Zero.

 

[Brett]

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.

.

.

 

[Carolinian]

Wow,
A lobbyist tooted his/her own horn
I am sure glad the oil lobby, the natural gas lobby, the coal lobby, the nuclear lobby, the geothermal lobby, the butterfly lobby, the malted milk lobby have always been squeaky clean in their allegations

I am glad the cost of the new power links are always included in the cost of every power plant

The cost of electricity has been calculated without including the cost of the grid because the grid is a separate element

It is broken down on electric bills as a separate line item

I realize politicians and energy planners are really not very smart
It is only because you and the people that think like you have figured out
When it is dark
When the wind isn't blowing
Solar and "windmills" do not produce power
You consistently never look at the "blended" cost of electricity
It is what other people do that have to make decisions about fulfilling our energy needs
If the oil industry lobby had its way
It would only be done with oil
They would flare the natural gas as a waste product

As for California and solar
The market went sideways after the shutdown of Sempra Energy's San Onofre Nuclear plant
A plant I lived near for many years
The Paradise Fire
The San Diego Fires
Many smaller Fires
Have contributed significantly to the cost of electricity in the State
Without Solar power (most of which is located on Residential Homes)
The energy bills would be much higher for everyone

But I realize you have read some headlines and are an expert on the state of power in California

"Blended cost of electricity" ???? You must not have been paying attention. That is what makes wind and solar cost so much, because conventional plants have to be ramped up and down to cover the voids from weather dependent wind and solar, something those conventional plants were not designed for, and which makes them much more expensive to operate than if they were running normally. Having to have extensive backup for intermittent wind and solar makes the system costs much higher. That is also explained in links and videos I have posted. Even one of Brett's useless undocumented posts mentioned cycling coal plants up and down to make up for wind and solar gaps made the coal plants wear out faster.

If the grid has to substitute expensive power from the spot market or from peaker plants when wind and solar crap out, that higher power costs raises the bills of ratepayers.

"Lobbyist"?? No, IRENA is an industry organization of the climate industrial complex.

And the loss of forest and farmland to these land intensive wind and solar operations is also a huge negative.

 

[Carolinian]

It is never a nice thing to have a failure of a part
They paid the bill
Life moves on
The energy firms make improvements to the blades and do everything within advancing science to make them better

While transporting fuel and oil, some of which is used in fossil fuel plants
There are plenty of accidents
This one from MSN
A failure of a pipeline Washington State

MSN

Here is one in North Dakota
A real mess
About 55 Million dollars on losses and damages

Crack along weld caused Keystone Pipeline spill, company says

The operator of the Keystone Pipeline says a crack along a weld caused an oil leak in southeast North Dakota earlier this year.

www.aberdeennews.com

Here is an example of the cost of real big fossil fuel screw up

https://www.noaa.gov/explainers/deepwater-horizon-oil-spill-settlements-where-money-went

Oil is used very little in making electricity any more, but a lot of oil is used elsewhere for energy.

 

[Carolinian]

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View attachment 119129


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View attachment 119130




.View attachment 119131


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Brett, do you have the skill set to post a link??????? Or the actual body of an article????? When your sources can be ascertained, which is rare, they tend to be very biased. Put another way, your posts are undocumented.

 

[Carolinian]

Here is an interesting scorecard for different electric power sources from the Mackinac Center for Public Policy and Northwood University called "Grading the Grid":

Grading the Grid

A national energy report card

www.mackinac.org

 

[Brett]

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.

 

[Carolinian]

More undocumented material from a source you refuse to share with us. Wonder why? And the same stuff constantly repeated. Brett, its like you are a character out of the movie Groundhog Day.

 

[davidvel]

You often use smear instead of admitting you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. I will try to explain it to you. You are wrong again.

Bill

You said I was talking out of my posterior, and yet you do not refute anything I said about your post's lacking any meaningful information about PV panels (or even the silly little experiment of using a tiny amount of residual heat under particular conditions to create a miniscule/meaningless amount of power.) But I smeared you?

Your reference to these little silly panels is like a science report by a grade schooler. A 4th grader would have received a C for citing to something.