Elderly mom was scammed — can you help a complete newbie who knows nothing?

[JHG123]

Hi there. Just found out that my 84yo mom, who lives on Social Security, signed a contract a month ago with Worldmark by Windham. She paid something like $4500 down, and appears to have financed around $20k. She has never used the service. Is there any way to get out of this? I know nothing about nothing, except that literally the only way to pay this would be to mortgage her condo, her one asset. Yes, I have a bigger problem re: dealing with my mom's mental decline that led to this, but if anybody has advice about where to start in offloading this horrendous burden, I'd be most appreciative.

 

[Luanne]

Since she is past the recession period she has a couple of options. See if Wyndham will take it back (probably unlikely) or just don't make any payments. This might affect her credit rating, but at her age is that an issue?

 

[JHG123]

The money is being electronically deducted from her account. So just...close the account?

 

[Tia]

The money is being electronically deducted from her account. So just...close the account?

Terrible, I'd be talking to the bank and seeing what they say on how to stop this scam of a sale. Do you have POA?

 

[Luanne]

The money is being electronically deducted from her account. So just...close the account?

I would say yes, close the account, unless there is some way she can stop the automatic payments.

 

[davidvel]

The money is being electronically deducted from her account. So just...close the account?

Bank or CC? Tell bank/CC not to debit anymore or close account. No reason to waste $20,000 over an 84 year old's credit. A financial elder abuse attorney may take the case on a contingency.

 

[dioxide45]

You could also contact https://www.tarda.org/. They are a self help non profit organization to help guide you through the process of self advocacy. You may or may not be successful in pleading the case to Wyndham/Worldmark, but it won't hurt and @Irene Parker hosts a weekly podcast on YouTube (and other outlets) talking to people who feel they were taken advantage of.

 

[HudsHut]

Welcome to TUG @JHG123

Thank you for helping your Mom.

If the $4500 was charged on a credit card, dispute the charge.

Ask her bank how to stop the direct debit. Explain that she was exploited by timeshare sales and she needs to stop the payments.

What state does your Mom live in? Look for Elder Law services to see if you can get her out of the contract.

Elder Abuse and Financial Exploitation:

• Legal representation to address elder abuse, neglect, or financial exploitation, including scams, fraud, or misuse of powers of attorney.
  
  
  
• Intervention to recover assets or secure protective orders in cases of abuse or exploitation.

If you do not yet have power of attorney for your Mom, get that done.

 

[dioxide45]

If you do not yet have power of attorney for your Mom, get that done.

Power of attorney won't necessarily prevent these kinds of things from happening. Mom can still go out and spend her money even if she has provided POA to someone else.

 

[sue1947]

Yes, I have a bigger problem re: dealing with my mom's mental decline that led to this,

and

If you do not yet have power of attorney for your Mom, get that done.

Given your statement above, Hudshut advise is your next step. I'm a little further along on your journey (my mother is 98). Getting that POA for both legal, and especially health decisions is your first order of business. It can be a difficult discussion, but you need that before she ends up in the hospital with a stroke (as with my mom). She came out of the stroke eventually, but I wasn't able to make the necessary decision on her insurance coverage. Then she broke her hip and her memory is gone so the POAs and access to her financial accounts became essential. I also suggest getting yourself, or whoever is appropriate, listed as co-owner on her financial accounts. Make sure you know how to access her financial accounts and that any multi-factor authentication phone numbers are ones you can access (not her landline). If she needs to move to assisted living/memory care, you don't want that landline tied to her accounts if you have to sell her house to pay for care.

For this situation, follow Hudshut's steps. Do what you can to get that money back and stop the bleeding by cutting off those payments. But you also have a lot on your plate and a lot of stress. Let a lawyer take care of trying to get that $4500 back so you can focus on helping your mom. If the lawyer can't do anything, you may need to accept that $4500 loss as an expensive lesson and cut your losses and move on. There's a lot to juggle and you will need to pick your battles.
Hang in there and thank you for helping your mom.

 

[Tia]

POA will give the bank approval to speak to you about accounts when presented to them otherwise they can't. Worked for me once several years back anyway.

 

[sue1947]

POA will give the bank approval to speak to you about accounts when presented to them

In theory, but not the reality with one financial institution. The rest have been easy, but this one is not. I did get my account tied to hers and I can sell it all, but can't change the phone number; idiotic.
Back to the OP, who seems to be in the early stages of sorting this all out. It can be overwhelming. The more of this you can take care of in advance when your parent still has enough memory to answer the identifying questions (what was your last address, phone number, social security number etc) the better. Waiting until a hospital stay/rehab/assisted living/memory care move makes it all more complicated.

 

[WorldT]

Hi there. Just found out that my 84yo mom, who lives on Social Security, signed a contract a month ago with Worldmark by Windham. She paid something like $4500 down, and appears to have financed around $20k. She has never used the service. Is there any way to get out of this? I know nothing about nothing, except that literally the only way to pay this would be to mortgage her condo, her one asset. Yes, I have a bigger problem re: dealing with my mom's mental decline that led to this, but if anybody has advice about where to start in offloading this horrendous burden, I'd be most appreciative.

Step one: Talk to Wyndham, tell them she does not have the mental capacity to make a decision such as these and you will like the contract cancelled and the down payment returned. Be polite but firm. Give them a week or two, but watch the calendar, some credit card only give you sixty days to dispute the charges.

Step two: Get the credit card company (hopefully this was a credit card) to issue a charge back. Claim fraud against an elderly person or something similar to that. If was a debit card or direct debit, this is tougher but still worth a shot.

Step three: block any future payments. Close the account if you have to, but you need to be specific that no future payments should be allowed. I have seen instances were payments from an old card were carried over to the new account since it was a "recurring charge" from a reputable "company".

 

[TUGBrian]

would also pursue the "taking advantage of an 84/yo widow" strategy with wyndham as well!

id also bet your state has an elder abuse hotline or similar (likely within the state attorney generals office) to file a complaint on as well. not that this itself will result in action taken against wyndham, but a call or email from a state investigator can produce results in your ongoing attempt to get them to nullify this contract...or should you choose the non-payment option would provide a bit more ammunition on your side if the collections/delinquencies notices begin!

 

[JHG123]

Coming back here to say that we succeeded in getting the contract canceled and the money refunded. It wasn't fun and it took a while, but we made some noise re: elder financial abuse and then while they were considering it, we went ahead and canceled her credit card. Surprise, surprise - things moved more quickly once that credit card was no longer being charged.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Coming back here to say that we succeeded in getting the contract canceled and the money refunded. It wasn't fun and it took a while, but we made some noise re: elder financial abuse and then while they were considering it, we went ahead and canceled her credit card. Surprise, surprise - things moved more quickly once that credit card was no longer being charged.

Thanks for the update, and so pleased that you were able to get it rescinded. Sorry, though, that you have to go through so much work and hassle to get it resolved.

 

[Passepartout]

Coming back here to say that we succeeded in getting the contract canceled and the money refunded. It wasn't fun and it took a while, but we made some noise re: elder financial abuse and then while they were considering it, we went ahead and canceled her credit card. Surprise, surprise - things moved more quickly once that credit card was no longer being charged.

Thanks for your return. So often, folks come here, distraught when family members make financially disastrous moves, and we never find out how it works out. Still, you handled it. Congrats, and we hope your mom is well and you now are able to help her navigate these pitfalls.

Thanks again!

Jim

 

[RX8]

@JHG123 Great job being persistent and congrats on getting out of the contract!

I know I am late to the party but am curious as to Worldmark/Wyndham’s tactics in signing up your 84 year old mom for a timeshare. Was she traveling and did a sales presentation or was this a phone call?

 

[rapmarks]

@JHG123 Great job being persistent and congrats on getting out of the contract!

I know I am late to the party but am curious as to Worldmark/Wyndham’s tactics in signing up your 84 year old mom for a timeshare. Was she traveling and did a sales presentation or was this a phone call?

Yes, I had the same question.

 

[HudsHut]

@JHG123

congratulations on perservering, and thank you for helping your Mother.

 

[JHG123]

@JHG123 Great job being persistent and congrats on getting out of the contract!

I know I am late to the party but am curious as to Worldmark/Wyndham’s tactics in signing up your 84 year old mom for a timeshare. Was she traveling and did a sales presentation or was this a phone call?

She wasn't traveling at the time, but because she adores travel, she was rooked into attending a local sales presentation because they dangled some sort of free trip offer in return. When she was younger and more with-it mentally, she'd attended a couple of these types of events, always strong enough to resist the hard sell and instead just reap the benefit. This time she clearly wasn't. And clearly she knew it was wrong up front, which is why she waited several weeks to confess that she'd done it. She felt the shame of it, even if she couldn't completely articulate how it all went down.

 

[JHG123]

I realized I wanted to come back and add one more thing, just in case it's helpful for someone else later: When my mom confessed to signing the contract, it was well past the rescission date. However a close read of the contract (by a lawyer friend of ours) revealed that we were still within the period during which we could formally opt out of arbitration. We did that -- in writing, mailed to the relevant address, with a return receipt. I don't know if this contributed to our success, but I'm guessing it didn't hurt that it kept open our option to sue them.

 

[TUGBrian]

Coming back here to say that we succeeded in getting the contract canceled and the money refunded. It wasn't fun and it took a while, but we made some noise re: elder financial abuse and then while they were considering it, we went ahead and canceled her credit card. Surprise, surprise - things moved more quickly once that credit card was no longer being charged.

very happy you had such a positive outcome!

 

[JHG123]

She wasn't traveling at the time, but because she adores travel, she was rooked into attending a local sales presentation because they dangled some sort of free trip offer in return. When she was younger and more with-it mentally, she'd attended a couple of these types of events, always strong enough to resist the hard sell and instead just reap the benefit. This time she clearly wasn't. And clearly she knew it was wrong up front, which is why she waited several weeks to confess that she'd done it. She felt the shame of it, even if she couldn't completely articulate how it all went down.

Oh, one more thing: in retrospect, I was able to deduce that this sales presentation went on for many, many, many hours -- I looked back at my calendar and realized that she was several hours late to a family event that day. I suspect they got her fatigued enough that all of her mental barriers were worn down. She also has that generational "niceness" that many older women were trained in, growing up in the 40s and 50s. So I can absolutely imagine that she didn't want to "cause a fuss" by simply getting up and leaving. And once they'd gotten her tired enough, she fell for their tactics.

 

[RX8]

@JHG123 Thanks for sharing more details. So it was a phone call to attend a local presentation? I don’t own Worldmark or Wyndham but that seems unusual. Maybe an owner can respond to see if that is something they are doing around the county.

I have no doubt that opting out of arbitration caused Wyndham to reconsider letting your mom rescind. I would love to attend jury trial about how big bad Wyndham lured your elderly mom to an on-site presentation and used intense pressure to make a sale (pressure in both time and verbal). Wyndham probably stays up at night worrying about that exact scenario happening.

Interestingly, I have not heard of timeshare contracts having an extended arbitration opt-out period. That is an excellent no-cost tactic one could try when outside of the rescission period to give themselves more leverage.