Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[Jan M.]

One of the questions I had though is - for lower MF deeds you usually have to pay something up front, and it can also be hard(er) to find low MF / larger point sales, at least on ebay IME. It's also harder to adjust / resell a large MF obligation, whereas smaller ones are easier to re-home. I guess I'm trying to figure out what the negative (outside of maybe transfer fees) to having 10 87,000pt contracts at low MF/point rations and likely $0 purchase cost, vs 1 870,000 contract that's harder to find at low MF/pt ratios and going to be harder IMHO to unload because of the larger MF "chunk".

I wouldn't want or recommend deliberately going for a lot of smaller point contracts (less than 100-154k points) vs two or three larger point contracts (200k ish and up). Although as long as you had say two larger point contracts and something small but highly desirable maintenance fee wise came along, I'd go for it. If you found something for 300-600k points or even 700-800k points with one of the lowest maintenance fees, I'd take that in a heartbeat for the right price. A lot of what you see on eBay is being sold by resellers, not the owners. If you see something with a lot of points at a low maintenance fee resort, don't hesitate to message the a reseller with a lower offer. You could end up getting a really good deal.

A few things to consider with owning mutiple small contracts. It's likely they won't all have the same use year. For anything that's not a January 1 use year, Wyndham might or might not readjust the use year to January 1. You'll have no idea if they gave you the.points for the year or not when they did it and they don't give you a paper trail accounting about how they calculated it. The lack of transparency when owners get readjusted has been a source of complaints for years. When we went through that they gave us some goodwill points, but the readjustment was at my request which made then very happy.

Why would I request a readjustment? I didn't want them to do it at some later date and then tell me it had been done. I wanted to know where I stood with our points balance at that time and until it was done to know if they gave us the points for the year or not.

If you have contracts with different use years you'll have more than one use year point bucket to manage. That's a p.i.t.a. The bulk of our points had a January 1 use year and we had a small contract with a July 1 use year. When I'd used all the points in both use years and needed to borrow points from the January 1 use year, the system wouldn't let me do that until after July 1. It would look at that empty July 1 point bucket and tell me I didn't have any points in it to borrow. I'd have to call in, get put through to Owner Care, and they could override it to make reservations for me. If I found something really good outside if Owner Care's working hours it would be gone by the next morning when I could call in. Or get taken while I was waiting to get put through to Owner Care.

After the readjustment that July 1 use year empty point bucket didn't just go away. It takes 2 years for it to fall off. Owner Care put in a ticket to get it removed. I'd get emails that my ticket was being worked on. At the end if two years it fell off automatically. I got an email saying they'd fixed my issue. No they didn't, it fixed itself. Grrrrr

Another thing about having contracts with different use years. As a resale owner you only have the first 3 months of your use year to move points from a particular use year to one of the next two use years. With more than one use year you have to make sure you don't miss the different deadlines.

Each resort you own at, those points have UDI, undivided interest. Here's what that means to you. You have ARP, Advance Reservation Priority, at your home resort prior to 10 months when we say points are points. Say you need 224k points to book the week you want at one of your home resorts at 13 months. You can only use the points deeded at that resort. If you have more than one contract at that resort, those points can be combined. Points from contracts deeded at other resorts can't be combined to make that reservation.

You're hoping the owner will pay the closing costs and transfer fee on those low maintenance fee listings. You might get lucky but typically there's enough demand for points at the low maintenance fee resorts that the seller doesn't have to do that. Pay attention on eBay listings to who pays the closing costs and how much they are. Some resellers charge a hefty amount for the closing costs. If the seller is paying them, they typically build that into their asking price. They can set a reserve price to insure it sells for at least a certain amount. Sellers have been known to cancel a sale if the bid didn't go high enough.

If you have a lot of contracts vs a few, when the time comes you want to downsize your account, that's a lot of fees you could be paying.

Yesterday I called LT Transfers about a non Wyndham timeshare week I'm thinking of re-homing. It's in Las Vegas and Nevada is cheaper than other states. Hawaii is more. For National Harbor in Prince George County someone has to physically go to the courthouse so that's even more. She told me their fees are going up but not for Nevada.
Here's the Nevada charges
$295 LT's fee
$55 Recording fees
$20 Postage
Add $399 for Wyndham's Transfer fee.
That adds up to $769 for each contract at today's costs.

 

[Double U]

Not posting the exact wording from the directory in the hope people genuinely interested will be the ones who take the time to actually read this in the directory. Because that is what matters. It will happen the way it is written no matter who does or does not agree.

Go to page 319 and begin at the final paragraph and read it through page 320. It discusses "force majeure" which likely applies here. Section (ii) allows it to come into play due to "action by a governmental authority". That authority will be the bankruptcy.

Argue all you want, this is what matters.

 

[Floridaman76]

I wouldn't want or recommend deliberately going for a lot of smaller point contracts

A few things to consider with owning mutiple small contracts. It's likely they won't all have the same use year. For anything that's not a January 1 use year, Wyndham might or might not readjust the use year to January 1. You'll have no idea if they gave you the.points for the year or not when they did it and they don't give you a paper trail accounting about how they calculated it. The lack of transparency when owners get readjusted has been a source of complaints for years. When we went through that they gave us some goodwill points, but the readjustment was at my request which made then very happy.

I don't think Wyndham lets owners have multiple use years anymore. And unless someone has a non-January use year and is buying a EOY contract, their other contracts should not be changed to January. Because all EOY contracts have to be January UY, and they re-align everything else to that.

If you have a September UY (like me) and buy something with April or January, it gets moved to September. I was worried when this happened I would lose that year's points but at least for me, it didn't happen.

 

[bamasteve]

I received my notice from Fairfield Bay today for the special meeting to liquidate the property to be held September 25th to determine the fate of the Mountain Meadows HOA.

Very interesting. I own at the Bay - can't remember my HOA and I haven't received anything yet.

 

[Double U]

There is now a disclaimer on the resort page

 

[afk324]

The minutes from the Orlando International September 10 Special Membership Meeting says they intend to honor Week 52 reservations. No new reservations starting after December 31, 2025 and no reservation continuing beyond January 3, 2026.

One bit of surprise from the attendees (in person, via Zoom, or telephone call-ins). Most, at least the ones who raised their hand, were apparently fixed week owners and had no concept of how points work. Also, they were clueless about Club Wyndham Access. There were questions about the seventy CWA resorts -- are they just hotel rooms? are they as roomy and comfortable as OIRC? And so on.

One guy complained about the lack of communication regarding the proposal to sell the property. Turns out he ignored the proxy notice for the August 5 meeting, thinking it was just for the annual meeting, approve previous meeting minutes, election of BoD replacements, etc. The only thing that made him pay any attention was the proxy for the second meeting. He wondered why he got two so close together and read the second one. He still complained about the lack of a notice!

I was interested if CWA Select contracts ( Converted Fixed Week ) were discussed with owner options ?

 

[donno]

Yesterday I called LT Transfers about a non Wyndham timeshare week I'm thinking of re-homing. It's in Las Vegas and Nevada is cheaper than other states. Hawaii is more. For National Harbor in Prince George County someone has to physically go to the courthouse so that's even more. She told me their fees are going up but not for Nevada.
Here's the Nevada charges
$295 LT's fee
$55 Recording fees
$20 Postage
Add $399 for Wyndham's Transfer fee.
That adds up to $769 for each contract at today's costs.

Due to the reason you stated above, LT Transfers is charging $935 for their services on my recent National Harbor resale purchase.

 

[makersforme]

Very interesting. I own at the Bay - can't remember my HOA and I haven't received anything yet.

We got the paperwork for the Proxy vote just today. I have been talking to my wife about who we should handle this. My wife (prior to us being married) was gifted this 182,000 contract to Fairfield Bay from her grandparents who bought a fixed week and converted to points I would guess in the mid 80s. I personally have been paying the fees for 27 years. We have always used it yearly but we are done. Not going to accept CWA points. With AirBNB and VRBO we can still vacation in a condo or home probably at a higher cost, but any location we so choose. The last handful of years we have struggled with the selection within an acceptable driving distance. I don't fly

Now a question:

The wording in the paperwork indicates among other things:
1. Suspend the collection of 2026 maintenance fees
2. Refund 2026 maintenance fees

I assume in 2025 I paid 2026 maintenance fees, am I correct in that statement?

 

[Jan M.]

Due to the reason you stated above, LT Transfers is charging $935 for their services on my recent National Harbor resale purchase.

Whoa, the cost for National Harbor has about doubled since I began the process of rehoming our 2 NH contracts in February, 2022!

 

[bnoble]

I assume in 2025 I paid 2026 maintenance fees, am I correct in that statement?

I believe that converted weeks pay fees in the year prior to use, so I believe you are correct. I am not 100% sure of that though.

 

[Jan M.]

I don't think Wyndham lets owners have multiple use years anymore. And unless someone has a non-January use year and is buying a EOY contract, their other contracts should not be changed to January. Because all EOY contracts have to be January UY, and they re-align everything else to that.

If you have a September UY (like me) and buy something with April or January, it gets moved to September. I was worried when this happened I would lose that year's points but at least for me, it didn't happen.

Back in 2017 with Voyager all the contracts in our account were readjusted to January 1. The EOY we had at that time was an April 1 use year but everthing else was July 1. I was told that with the way new system was set up, EOYs could only be read as January 1. I did understand their explanation but at that time wasn't happy about losing our July 1 use year. They did give us goodwill points and my concerns about dealing with a January 1 use year didn't come to pass.

At that time they were saying that no one could have multiple use years in their account anymore and that everyone would eventually be switched to a January 1 use year.

There are still owners who have multiple use years in their accounts and owners with use years other than January 1 who were never readjusted to January 1. However not those with an EOY, at least that I've heard of. Once Voyager went live, there were so many problems, many taking months and months to resolve, I think they had bigger fish to fry.

I've seen people posting here and in the FB groups that their account didn't get readjusted when they added a contract with a different use year. We know things sometimes fall though the cracks with Wyndham, that's nothing new. But I've wondered if their accounts were eventually readjusted. After the dust settled with Voyager, I'm sure that department was cut back to just a few people.

 

[paxsarah]

Back in 2017 with Voyager all the contracts in our account were readjusted to January 1. The EOY we had at that time was an April 1 use year but everthing else was July 1. I was told that with the way new system was set up, EOYs could only be read as January 1. I did understand their explanation but at that time wasn't happy about losing our July 1 use year. They did give us goodwill points and my concerns about dealing with a January 1 use year didn't come to pass.

At that time they were saying that no one could have multiple use years in their account anymore and that everyone would eventually be switched to a January 1 use year.

There are still owners who have multiple use years in their accounts and owners with use years other than January 1 who were never readjusted to January 1. However not those with an EOY, at least that I've heard of. Once Voyager went live, there were so many problems, many taking months and months to resolve, I think they had bigger fish to fry.

I've seen people posting here and in the FB groups that their account didn't get readjusted when they added a contract with a different use year. We know things sometimes fall though the cracks with Wyndham, that's nothing new. But I've wondered if their accounts were eventually readjusted. After the dust settled with Voyager, I'm sure that department was cut back to just a few people.

I'm not sure anyone has multiple use years in their accounts anymore. (Except owners with bonus points because that's a longer "use year" that ultimately goes away.) I feel like we'd hear about it, and I don't really think I've heard about it since around the Voyager time. Think about things like points deposit, if people had multiple use years they'd have multiple points deposit deadlines and fees - how confusing! And I've never heard it.

What I do hear about on Facebook is people who weren't aware that buying a resale with a different use year will cause Wyndham to align your use years and often leave you with an unexpected lack of points for some months. I had a resale with a different use year transfer earlier this year (my first ever - I'd been able to stick with January otherwise so far) and it was adjusted immediately, before I even logged in to see it for the first time - but I got lucky and Wyndham gave me my current use year points anyway.

 

[Arimaas]

Not posting the exact wording from the directory in the hope people genuinely interested will be the ones who take the time to actually read this in the directory. Because that is what matters. It will happen the way it is written no matter who does or does not agree.

Go to page 319 and begin at the final paragraph and read it through page 320. It discusses "force majeure" which likely applies here. Section (ii) allows it to come into play due to "action by a governmental authority". That authority will be the bankruptcy.

Argue all you want, this is what matters.

I didn’t look up the line, so forgive me for chiming in maybe prematurely but this is not force majeure (which is “an act of God” or war or something beyond the parties control) and I don’t think this would really be an action of a government authority. That was likely thrown in to cover COVID style shutdowns since it isn’t force majeure. That being said I’m not ruling out that bankruptcy voids Wyndhams contractual duties with respect to reservations.

 

[Arimaas]

There is now a disclaimer on the resort page

Good !

 

[paxsarah]

I didn’t look up the line, so forgive me for chiming in maybe prematurely but this is not force majeure (which is “an act of God” or war or something beyond the parties control) and I don’t think this would really be an action of a government authority. That was likely thrown in to cover COVID style shutdowns since it isn’t force majeure. That being said I’m not ruling out that bankruptcy voids Wyndhams contractual duties with respect to reservations.

I agree it doesn't seem to fit the definition of force majeure, but I'll also add that that same verbiage regarding governmental actions has been part of the directories since long before COVID.

 

[Arimaas]

I agree it doesn't seem to fit the definition of force majeure, but I'll also add that that same verbiage regarding governmental actions has been part of the directories since long before COVID.

$160k in law school loans says it’s not force majeure and likely not government actions either way

 

[Jan M.]

I'm not sure anyone has multiple use years in their accounts anymore. (Except owners with bonus points because that's a longer "use year" that ultimately goes away.) I feel like we'd hear about it, and I don't really think I've heard about it since around the Voyager time. Think about things like points deposit, if people had multiple use years they'd have multiple points deposit deadlines and fees - how confusing! And I've never heard it.

What I do hear about on Facebook is people who weren't aware that buying a resale with a different use year will cause Wyndham to align your use years and often leave you with an unexpected lack of points for some months. I had a resale with a different use year transfer earlier this year (my first ever - I'd been able to stick with January otherwise so far) and it was adjusted immediately, before I even logged in to see it for the first time - but I got lucky and Wyndham gave me my current use year points anyway.

Unless I'm losing it, entirely possible, lol, there were people who said they didn't get their use year realigned and they had more than one use year in their account. I was, and to some extent still am, cranky about that, given that Wyndham was so insistent that everyone would eventually be a January 1 use year. Back when people were posting about having been realigned and losing points, I was corrected by at least one person who said they weren't realigned and had more than one use year. And since then I've seen a few people say they added a contract with a different use year and it wasn't realigned. They said maybe Wyndham will eventually catch up to them and do it.

Maybe someone who Wyndham eventually caught up with will post about how long it took. If Wyndham hasn't caught up to them yet, I'd sure keep quiet about it. Lol

Most of us here on TUG know that everyone trying to deposit points in RCI or move points to a future use year, in the last day or two of the year would most definitely not go well. That was one of my main concerns when they were saying that everyone would eventually be a January 1 use year and we had to be moved to January 1 because of the EOY contract. With all the problems when Voyager went live, Wyndham was focused on that. After that was somewhat resolved, Wyndham cut the staffing. There's always things that fall through the cracks.

 

[donno]

Proxies for Fairfield Bay's Fairways and Mountain Ridge HOAs received yesterday with Sept. 24 and 25 meeting dates, respectively. Accompanying information mentions that a requisite number of members of the "Association" have requested the Board call a meeting to vote on the sale and that the 2025 occupancy rate at Fairways has been 35% and that a 4% increase in reserves is needed over the next 3 years with a 3% increase in following years. The Mountain Ridge information mentions a 45% occupancy for 2024 and 2025 and the need for a $2.2 million special assessment ($800/interval by my calculation) and a 5% increase in reserves from 2026-2029.

 

[chapjim]

I was interested if CWA Select contracts ( Converted Fixed Week ) were discussed with owner options ?

It was discussed in the HOA meeting and has been discussed here in this thread. CFW owners can opt for the equivalent number of points in Club Wyndham Access or they can wait out the sale process and take a pro rata share of the residuals.

 

[geist1223]

We have been following this thread. We are not owners at any of the Resorts or of Wyndham. We are Worldmark Owners. Over the years Wyndham has placed a number Units at several of these Resorts into the Worldmark Inventory. I have not seen anything that says what is planned for the Worldmark Units. Wyndham owns the Development Rights in Worldmark (thus sale Worldmark Credits) and as a separate matter the Worldmark BOD retained Wyndham as the day to day Manager of Worldmark Resorts. But Ownership of the Resorts and Individual Units is in Worldmark's name.

 

[paxsarah]

There is now a disclaimer on the resort page

And today I got a phone call from a very nice person at Wyndham corporate in Orlando about canceling my OIRC reservation next April. She had a bit of a script about lower usage and demand and the choice for the resort to move forward with bankruptcy. She also noted that I also had Bonnet Creek booked for the same dates and I explained I had heard the news and was making sure I had a backup booked. So we had a bit of a chat and she went ahead and canceled my reservation.

I wonder if the meeting dates are being strategically spaced out so they don't get too backlogged on the calls they have to make to owners with existing reservations. I expect they won't all be as brief as mine was if further explanation is needed, or finding a new reservation (which she said she would have offered to help me with). And I would guess OIRC is one of the smaller resorts under discussion - maybe another reason it went first, to ramp up slowly and solidify the process.

 

[Double U]

That being said I’m not ruling out that bankruptcy voids Wyndhams contractual duties with respect to reservations.

You said it much better than me!

 

[Floridaman76]

We have been following this thread. We are not owners at any of the Resorts or of Wyndham. We are Worldmark Owners. Over the years Wyndham has placed a number Units at several of these Resorts into the Worldmark Inventory. I have not seen anything that says what is planned for the Worldmark Units. Wyndham owns the Development Rights in Worldmark (thus sale Worldmark Credits) and as a separate matter the Worldmark BOD retained Wyndham as the day to day Manager of Worldmark Resorts. But Ownership of the Resorts and Individual Units is in Worldmark's name.

I think the only resort in question that Worldmark has explicit inventory at is Shawnee. So that should be a non-issue. What units at Shawnee that have inventory in Worldmark, i'm sure could just be shifted to units which are staying in Wyndham.

I'm sure they already thought of this.

 

[paxsarah]

I think the only resort in question that Worldmark has explicit inventory at is Shawnee. So that should be a non-issue. What units at Shawnee that have inventory in Worldmark, i'm sure could just be shifted to units which are staying in Wyndham.

I'm sure they already thought of this.

They just added Patriot's Place inventory to Worldmark earlier this year. I don't know if there were any others that are on the list. I wonder for PP, if whatever mechanism they used to add that inventory can basically be reversed?

 

[Floridaman76]

They just added Patriot's Place inventory to Worldmark earlier this year. I don't know if there were any others that are on the list. I wonder for PP, if whatever mechanism they used to add that inventory can basically be reversed?

I thought that was Kingsgate, not PP... pretty sure i'm right.