Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[bizaro86]

This option would only apply to those resorts where, as you pointed out, Wyndham doesn't own the underlying real estate in all cases - such as with Wyndham Shawnee for example.

I'm not that familiar with Wyndham's history, but there isn't any particular reason why a property couldn't change management.

The board at Cave Creek fired Vistana, Marriott let go some phases at Streamside, and Sunset Cove on Marco Island actually switched from Hilton to Holiday Inn. Just 3 examples off the top of my head, but it isn't that uncommon.

If Wyndham doesn't own enough units to control the HOA vote then then the HOA can do what it likes after Wyndham quits. I think in all of these cases it probably does control it, and most owners will be happy to get out with cash anyway. But resorts can and do switch management firms.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I'm not that familiar with Wyndham's history, but there isn't any particular reason why a property couldn't change management.

The board at Cave Creek fired Vistana, Marriott let go some phases at Streamside, and Sunset Cove on Marco Island actually switched from Hilton to Holiday Inn. Just 3 examples off the top of my head, but it isn't that uncommon.

If Wyndham doesn't own enough units to control the HOA vote then then the HOA can do what it likes after Wyndham quits. I think in all of these cases it probably does control it, and most owners will be happy to get out with cash anyway. But resorts can and do switch management firms.

Basically there are resorts labelled "Wyndham Exit" for the disposition type on the table in the first post - these are the resorts where Wyndham may not own all of the underlying real estate and therefore they are simply exiting the resort management in these cases. The HOAs were informed that Wyndham will no longer be managing the resort inventory for these particular HOAs after 12/31/2025 - so the HOAs are then tasked with determining how to move forward. Wyndham Shawnee is actually a mixed bag - Wyndham built and owns the Crestview units - which they're planning to sell - but doesn't own or only owns partial intervals for some of the remaining HOAs to the best of my understanding. In these cases, exactly how those HOAs choose to handle things after 12/31/2025 remains to be seen - and only the HOAs will make this determination - though Wyndham at least in many cases from what we've gathered does have majority interval ownerships in hand - which means they can also influence the HOA BOD votes that are held - which may mean they control the disposition outcomes in some cases.

 

[Floridaman76]

I'm not that familiar with Wyndham's history, but there isn't any particular reason why a property couldn't change management.

The board at Cave Creek fired Vistana, Marriott let go some phases at Streamside, and Sunset Cove on Marco Island actually switched from Hilton to Holiday Inn. Just 3 examples off the top of my head, but it isn't that uncommon.

If Wyndham doesn't own enough units to control the HOA vote then then the HOA can do what it likes after Wyndham quits. I think in all of these cases it probably does control it, and most owners will be happy to get out with cash anyway. But resorts can and do switch management firms.

That could certainly happen, but in almost, if not EVERY case of the specific resorts closing, Wyndham has a majority of seats on the HOA board, as well as (in theory) has a majority ownership of the intervals/deeds at the resort. So a majority ownership, plus a majority on the HOA board makes this largely a foregone conclusion

 

[bizaro86]

That could certainly happen, but in almost, if not EVERY case of the specific resorts closing, Wyndham has a majority of seats on the HOA board, as well as (in theory) has a majority ownership of the intervals/deeds at the resort. So a majority ownership, plus a majority on the HOA board makes this largely a foregone conclusion

For sure - in this case I would think that most of them will end up with the property sold. But there is another path that any non-controlled HOA could choose and since someone asked about it I thought I'd provide a few example. I think that would almost certainly be a mistake so hopefully none of the HOAs choose that path.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Basically your statement is accurate, that at this mark, in approximately 90 days give or take, approximately 12 resorts will unofficially close on 12/31/25.

- Wyndham still has not communicated anything to owners at these resorts

Wyndham addressed the communication aspect in their original statement on 7/15:

In other words, Wyndham corporate isn't going to communicate with the impacted owners - the HOA will do so. Stop attributing to Wyndham that which is not their responsibility to deliver, which in the majority of cases is legal in nature. We may not like it, but it's not as if they haven't set out a path forward over a month ago on this topic.

- Wyndham still has not publically announced which resorts will be closing, when or why

Nor will they until the HOAs determine the path forward for resort disposition and communicate that intent legally as required by the bylaws, and local and state laws.

- The resorts are still bookable past 12/31/25

Agreed - I would have liked a temporary block to be put in place - but perhaps there are limiting factors here for reasons we do not really understand. This is my assumption given it's not hard for Wyndham to block off inventory in the back end reservation system - Wyndham does this constantly for various legitimate reasons.

- Employees at the "known" resorts have been notified that the resorts will be closing on 12/31/25 and most of them will be out of a job as of that date

Yes, because Wyndham can choose to stop managing resorts at their own discretion, as has been repeatedly outlined in previous posts.

- The sales team has ramped up their lying trying to get people to "buy more to keep their ownership", even though it has been speculated that Wyndham will offer a free conversion to CWA

It's more than speculation - this was directly stated by Wyndham in their original communication on this item:

 

[bnoble]

find a past example where a timeshare company sold their interest in a resort and deeded owners were not offered their portion of sale proceeds but rather forced to keep their ownership and transition into a new timeshare company or system.

So, there are four different ideas, each separate, but each important:

Idea #1: Which resorts are affiliated with the "Club Wyndham" points system. A resort that is part of this system is one in which some owners either (a) grant the usage rights of their underlying timeshare in exchange for points or (b) buy an "undivided interest" of a very small fraction of the total resort, for which they are granted points as a symbol of their ownership. Individual owners have voting rights that are in some way in proportion to their ownership.

Idea #2: Wyndham is the operations manager of some resorts, also sometimes called the management company. The management company is the one that provides local services at the resort--front desk, housekeeping, maintenance, etc.--in exchange for a fee charged to owners of that resort.

Idea #3: Wyndham (or one of its closely related entities) is the owner of record for some parts of some resorts---either becuase they were never sold, the owners defaulted on payments and they were foreclosed, or owners gave their owned portion back to Wyndham via Certified Exit. As the owner of record, Wyndham has voting rights that are in some way in proportion to what they own.

Idea #4: Broadly speaking, Wyndham has two different things they sell: deeded real estate (that is usually managed by Wyndham and part of the Wyndham points system), and interests in a trust, which they call Club Wyndham Access, or CWA. People who buy CWA do not own property, but instead have a contract with Wyndham that awards them symbolic points each year to use for Wyndahm's inventory. These points are backed by a large pool of inventory at a broad cross-section of resorts. Importantly, Wyndham retains the voting rights for any inventory that is part of the trust.

------------------------

As of today, all of the resorts in the table on Page #1 are currently "in the system" (idea #1). Some of them are managed by Wyndahm (idea #2), but some are not---for example Star Island in Orlando has a different management company. Wyndham presumably owns a significant fraction of deeds at each of the impacted resorts, and in some cases owns a large enough fraction to control the outcome of any vote, through either direct ownership (Idea #3) or retained voting rights (Idea #4).

Wyndham has more or less complete discretion to remove a resort from the points system (Idea #1). This is true whether or not Wyndham is the management company, and does not require a vote of the owners, so Wyndham does not need a controlling interest to make this happen. If a resort is removed from the points system, direct owners have their ownership "dis-enrolled" from the Club Wyndham point system, and their ownership reverts to whatever it was before its usage rights were assigned. For any resort with a status of WYNDHAM EXIT or COMPLETE EXIT, the owners will be disenrolled from the point system. We are told these owners will be offered the chance to convert their ownership to Club Wyndham Access, for an equivalent number of points. The annual fees may go up, or they may go down, it will depend on an owner's specific circumstances.

Some of those resorts may continue to operate as timeshares, but either as stand-alone resorts or as part of some other timeshare system, depending on how the owners and Board wish to proceed. However, those labeled COMPLETE EXIT are expected to be sold, with proceeds distributed to any owners left standing---and these are resorts at which Wyndham presumably has a controlling voting interest. In contrast, any resort that is listed as CONSOLIDATING will remain in the Club Wyndham system (Idea #1), but at a smaller number of bookable units than are in the system today.

Yes, because Wyndham can choose to stop managing resorts at their own discretion, as has been repeatedly outlined in previous posts.

We aren't really talking about being the management company (Idea #2). We are talking about system affiliation (Idea #1), and Wyndham does have the unilateral authority to de-affiliate a resort or a specific HOA within a larger resort.

 

[chapjim]

For those of us who have reservations in late 2025 at one of the soon-to-be disaffiliated resorts, should we expect a degradation of service at the resort? Employees may be jumping from the sinking ship, so to speak.

 

[TRVLISGOOD]

Basically there are resorts labelled "Wyndham Exit" for the disposition type on the table in the first post - these are the resorts where Wyndham may not own all of the underlying real estate and therefore they are simply exiting the resort management in these cases.

Hi, In the online news article for the first resort listed, Fairlfield Glade it said ...".....leadership will work with the HOA board to initiate the process to sell the resort." ...that resort is listed as Wyndham Exit. Very confusing? Are they selling it or just changing ownership?

 

[hjsweet2002]

Currently at Bentry Brook. Met a HOA board member. He is not happy about BB closing. Stated that Wyndham holds voting power over the rest of us owners. As a result basically it’s a done deal. I will definitely vote no at the special HOA meeting whenever it takes place. Staff id committed to providing great service to the end. Most are not jumping ship

 

[HitchHiker71]

Hi, In the online news article for the first resort listed, Fairlfield Glade it said ...".....leadership will work with the HOA board to initiate the process to sell the resort." ...that resort is listed as Wyndham Exit. Very confusing? Are they selling it or just changing ownership?

Because the HOA at FF consists of more than just the Wyndham timeshare buildings, it's a much larger resort area than just what Wyndham owns, hence the "Wyndham Exit" nomenclature. Every resort that exits by end of year is going to have somewhat unique circumstances and outcomes - and it's all but impossible to capture the unique circumstances in a concise table format. This is at least in part why Wyndham has not provided more explicit guidance, because it's not a simple answer even for any one impacted resort.

If you're confused and here on TUG, then many more who aren't privy to the TUG table data in this thread are even more in the dark and more confused, and would likely be even more confused if Wyndham were to attempt to provide additional guidance given each resort exit is going to be uniquely managed for many reasons, to include by-laws, local and state legal requirements, to say nothing of how Wyndham itself approaches the resort exit (OIRC being one explicit example). This is why Wyndham has explicitly indicated that the HOAs will handle the comms for the impacted owners, given each resort will choose unique outcomes to vote upon, based upon the legal requirements in scope, and the paths forward that the HOA itself investigates and pursues on behalf of the interval owners.

 

[HitchHiker71]

For those of us who have reservations in late 2025 at one of the soon-to-be disaffiliated resorts, should we expect a degradation of service at the resort? Employees may be jumping from the sinking ship, so to speak.

I think that is a safe assumption yes. If impacted employees can find another gig, they're going to leave. Should be interesting when we're at Wyndham Shawnee the week of Christmas.

 

[bnoble]

For those of us who have reservations in late 2025 at one of the soon-to-be disaffiliated resorts, should we expect a degradation of service at the resort? Employees may be jumping from the sinking ship, so to speak.

Not necessarily. Often in these situations, mangement will offer a "completion bonus" who finish out their time. It's not unlike what many seasonal operations do to keep workers in the last few weeks.

 

[jp10558]

For those of us who have reservations in late 2025 at one of the soon-to-be disaffiliated resorts, should we expect a degradation of service at the resort? Employees may be jumping from the sinking ship, so to speak.

I would certainly expect staff to be leaving, though perhaps temporary staff may be hired in their place.

 

[paxsarah]

In other words, Wyndham corporate isn't going to communicate with the impacted owners - the HOA will do so.

Or at least, the HOA will do so first, and there's a whole process to carry out there. But wouldn't we expect the eventual offer of a CWA swap to come from Wyndham corporate and not the HOA?

 

[HitchHiker71]

Or at least, the HOA will do so first, and there's a whole process to carry out there. But wouldn't we expect the eventual offer of a CWA swap to come from Wyndham corporate and not the HOA?

Hard to say, but I suspect the decision will need to be made with the HOA. So the initial HOA vote first - on the disposition of the resort itself - where Wyndham likely holds a majority of the interval votes as has been previously debated in this thread. Then a second communication will come, again from the HOA, on how the owner wants to handle the disposition of their ownership - each owner's disposition vote in essence. If the owner opts for the CWA points swap - then some kind of process likely will be provided on how to pursue that option if chosen - either as part of the actual voting materials - or subsequently in some fashion via the HOA on behalf of Wyndham (perhaps as simple as a phone contact number or a website link, etc.). If the owner opts to not do the points swap to CWA and to hold their contract for outpayment and/or some offer to convert their ownership to another timeshare system - then those steps and expectations on the process would also be provided by the HOA. Point being, I think the comms will be HOA centric from this point forward, not Wyndham centric, but only time will tell.

 

[DeniseM]

I don't know if this is related, but Wyndham notified the board at Kauai Beach Villas that they are terminating the Pahio management contract with the resort at the end of the year. (Pahio is owned by Wyndham.)

As you may recall, Kauai Beach Villas is the Kauai resort that is falling apart due to poor construction and maintenance issues, with an estimated $67 million dollar special assessment needed to correct all of the issues. 2 of it's 3 oceanfront buildings have been closed, stripped of their landscaping and irrigation systems, and allowed to fall into serious disrepair.

The board is holding an election on Sept. 19th for owners to vote on Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I don't know if this is related, but Wyndham notified the board at Kauai Beach Villas that they are terminating the Pahio management contract with the resort at the end of the year. (Pahio is owned by Wyndham.)

As you may recall, Kauai Beach Villas is the Kauai resort that is falling apart due to poor construction and maintenance issues, with an estimated $67 million dollar special assessment needed to correct all of the issues. 2 of it's 3 oceanfront buildings have been closed, stripped of their landscaping and irrigation systems, and allowed to fall into serious disrepair.

The board is holding an election on Sept. 19th for owners to vote on Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

What makes this different than the others on the list? Curious why not include it?

 

[DeniseM]

I haven't read the rest of the thread, and that's why I wrote: "I don't know if this is related."

 

[HitchHiker71]

What makes this different than the others on the list? Curious why not include it?

It’s not directly related. There’s a very large thread elsewhere about KBV IIRC. It’s a long drawn out story with a ton of history. The fact that it is being removed at year end doesn’t necessarily tie this particular resort into the actions specific to this thread. That likely has to do with the fact that 12/31/2025 is the end of the fiscal year, which would be the case for almost any action taken to remove a resort from the system in an effort to minimize complexity. I will confirm with my Wyndham contacts to be sure.

 

[robbie0001]

Where did the Chicago and Bosten rumor come from?

A Wyndham sale associate in Williamsburg, VA

 

[robbie0001]

For those not taking the exchange for CWA points. Be aware that whatever money you do eventually receive will also get a tax form and be reported to the IRS.

For those who originally purchased from the developer, they may receive a long-term capital loss which will reduce their tax liability depending on how the timeshare has been used (ie, for "business purposes").

 

[robbie0001]

I didn’t imply any such thing. You stated above that large companies (Wyndham is a large company and the subject of this thread) lose in court every day. I simply asked you how many times Wyndham has lost in court this century. You named 1. In 25 years. That’s hardly losing every day. To me, and a few others here, it appears that Wyndham is being very careful in how they are handling these few resort closings/downsizings. You think it’s because they’re doing something shady or illegal. I think it’s because they are following the legal process and will make announcements, or the HOA’s will make announcements, when the votes have been counted, and thus, the decisions have actually been made. Like it or not, you’re going to have to wait for that process to play out.

Wyndham is using the word "decommissioned"...it's all in how things are framed. Doesn't sound so bad.

 

[robbie0001]

View attachment 114762

View attachment 114763

You're referencing the original Declarations...there have been 13 or so modifications. Only 20% of intervals week owners are required (in person or by proxy) for a quorum, and measures require 2/3 vote to pass.

Interval ownership was approved last year for 10 years, hence the reason why bankruptcy is needed now.

 

[robbie0001]

This right here is why I said what I said in another Wyndham thread where buying up contracts at impacted resorts was proposed in an effort to "time the market" and receive payouts. We don't yet know the disposition of any of these resorts for certain just yet, and particularly for resorts like Wyndham Shawnee where multiple HOAs exist where Wyndham only provides management services, it's entirely possible these HOAs may end up voting to have another timeshare company take over their management contracts and call it a day. So while Wyndham may exit, there may not be any payout for a subset of these HOAs, so please be careful when considering ideas like this. Even with resorts like Bentley Brook where we think privately owned condos are likely, we simply don't know what the disposition will end up looking like just yet.

True, but for OIRC, Wyndham owes ~60 of interval weeks, and the HOA has retained the same firm which represents Wyndham, and Wyndham wants to proceed with bankruptcy to sell the property, so it is virtually guaranteed that a sale will occur. For some reason, Wyndham has pushed the idea that sale will happen in the next 6 months.

 

[comicbookman]

A Wyndham sale associate in Williamsburg, VA

So an unreliable source.