Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[dioxide45]

I am wondering who will pay the property taxes on the land and buildings? Who will pay the utility bills. If the timeshare owners no longer own there, who owns the property. I mean the big deal is that you can’t walk away from a timeshare because of contractural obligations, what happens to the obligation?
I apologize if this was already answered, it’s a long thread.

I would think the property has a few options. They take out a loan to cover the costs to operate the resort. I don't know how this works with Lemonjuice, if they finance the ongoing costs for the properties they help wind down or if the properties go to a traditional lender. The balance of the loan and any interest has to be paid out of the sale proceeds. It could also be possible that in the case of Wyndham properties that Travel + Leisure steps in to help finance the wind down of the resorts. They of course earn fees and interest from this, but that is to be expected. There may also be money in reserves and if owners are paying maintenance fees in advance, perhaps it can come from that. Though I don't think the properties see those fees until the maintenance fees are billed.

 

[rapmarks]

Fairfield Glade and Fairfield Bay have groupings of condos within a very large homeowners community. They have an arrangement with the golf courses for tee times. They are allowed to use indoor pool . They must pay to use outdoor pools which apparently belong to homeowners HOA. So either another management company would have to come in or the units would be sold as condos or as rental property.

 

[Double U]

IIRC, OIRC (that's confusing) was not developed by Fairfield. So the underlying documents could be different than how Fairfield set theirs up. Maybe this made it necessary or simply a safer, more efficient process? Or maybe a combination?

 

[TUGBrian]

owner on facebook said they checked into patriots place today and were told the resort is ending operations on 12/31.... still pretty baffled there hasnt been any public notice of this (nor had the owner gotten any notice prior to check in)

 

[Pennytx]

I can confirm that’s true
I am here right now and that’s what they are telling me also

 

[Twenty20]

Fairfield Glade and Fairfield Bay have groupings of condos within a very large homeowners community. They have an arrangement with the golf courses for tee times. They are allowed to use indoor pool . They must pay to use outdoor pools, they apparently belong to homeowners HOA. So either another management company would have to come in or the units would be sold as condos or as rental property.

I'm trying to think of what kind of market there would be for those condos at FF Glade. I guess they could be sold off as condos but I just don't see the market for that many units in aging buildings with outdated floor plans.

I guess some other resort operator could try to make a go of it. But honestly seems like a longshot.

 

[Floridaman76]

I'm trying to think of what kind of market there would be for those condos at FF Glade. I guess they could be sold off as condos but I just don't see the market for that many units in aging buildings with outdated floor plans.

I guess some other resort operator could try to make a go of it. But honestly seems like a longshot.

I've been there several times and it's nice for what it is, but it's in the middle of nowhere and the area does not have a lot going on for it. There's some boating and some hiking, but even inside the Wyndham timeshare system there's a lot more locations that have more going for them as far as "nature" is concerned. That is, if you don't golf. The golf courses look very nice and i'm not a golfer so I could be way off.

Looking back in time, it makes me wonder what Fairfield saw in locations like Fairfield Bay and Fairfield Glade, or places like Villa Rica and New Bern. I say time has passed these locations by... but when was the time when these locations were desirable, other than maybe because there were no other options?

 

[rapmarks]

I'm trying to think of what kind of market there would be for those condos at FF Glade. I guess they could be sold off as condos but I just don't see the market for that many units in aging buildings with outdated floor plans.

I guess some other resort operator could try to make a go of it. But honestly seems like a longshot.

It was a terrific vacation for us when we would play golf every day in the morning, each day on a different course. Then have the afternoons to explore the area.
When we were searching for a place for retirement,we went to several places south of Orlando with really dated condos along golf courses. Lots of retired couples were happy to have them as second homes and they were relatively cheap.
We also rented sight unseen in Green Valley. The housing was awful, about 600 square feet and furnished with Salvation Army rejects. . But everyone there was older and it got them out of the cold.
Those condos flipped easily and neighborhoods were well kept, possibly because of age restrictions.

 

[TUGBrian]

I can confirm that’s true
I am here right now and that’s what they are telling me also

are they saying the resort itself is shutting its doors? or just ending its relationship with wyndham?

 

[Pennytx]

are they saying the resort itself is shutting its doors? or just ending its relationship with wyndham?

I received two different answers
Frankly even the employees are confused
I truly feel sorry for them
Two said they were informed that it would be shutting down on December 31
Another said she was informed it was changing management companies on December 31
I have a walk, uodate whatever you want to call it at noon on Tuesday
We were supposed to go today but had friends in town and went to Busch gardens instead
I do know that a owner here went to an update this morning at 9 am an was told “they are closing on December 31”
He might have been who posted that on Facebook. I don’t do Facebook so I have no way to verify that.
As I stated earlier, I’m more than happy to ask any and all ?
Just let me know what to ask and I’ll do it

 

[TUGBrian]

no worries, i think everyone would love to see something officially written or printed from wyndam or the resort itself confirming things one way or another.

it is a shame that the resorts own employees appear to be as much in the dark as we are

 

[Jan M.]

I received two different answers
Frankly even the employees are confused
I truly feel sorry for them
Two said they were informed that it would be shutting down on December 31
Another said she was informed it was changing management companies on December 31
I have a walk, uodate whatever you want to call it at noon on Tuesday
We were supposed to go today but had friends in town and went to Busch gardens instead
I do know that a owner here went to an update this morning at 9 am an was told “they are closing on December 31”
He might have been who posted that on Facebook. I don’t do Facebook so I have no way to verify that.
As I stated earlier, I’m more than happy to ask any and all ?
Just let me know what to ask and I’ll do it

You'll hopefully get a more accurate answer depending on how you phrase the questions. First ask if the resort is being dropped by Wyndham from our roster of resorts. Then ask if the resort is solely a Wyndham resort or there are units and sections that aren't part of the Wyndham system that will remain in operation. If a resort is solely a Wyndham resort then it would seem the resort will be ceasing operations entirely as of 12/31/25.

CO skier in his posts told how things were handled with the Pagosa Mountain View Assn. I think the company he mentioned that came in to handle things was Lemonjuice? It sounds like there are companies that come in, maybe from day one of the closing, to take over and do everything that needs done while the resort is changing hands or being sold off.

The employees and salespeople probably don't know much more than their jobs are ending on 12/31/25 and owners will be offered a CWA swap for their deeds.

 

[CO skier]

Two said they were informed that it [Patriot's Place] would be shutting down on December 31
Another said she was informed it was changing management companies on December 31

Wow. Now we know exactly what we knew on July 10th in post #28 -- the day this whole thing started.

 

[bnoble]

I would think the property has a few options.

I'm trying to decide if you are being strategically obtuse, or you really are not appreciating the strategy.

Of course there are options. Some are more expensive and/or require more time than others. If I am reading the note Jim received correctly, this option is being considered and put to a vote because it short-circuits the process of clearing the individual deeds. Yes, there are other ways to do that, but if those other ways are more expensive (in money and in time) then it is to the current owners' advantage to pursue this path. It means fewer costs incurred during the wind-down, which means more residual value to the owners after the sale is complete.

These resorts are not going to be part of Wyndham, one way or the other. The only remaining options are (a) continue operating as a timeshare with a new management company (possibly in a new mini-system) or (b) wind down the resort. If a property is pursuing option (b), this is a clever way to do it.

As I've mentioned upthread, I'm enmeshed in a similar (but not identical) situation at KBV. The strategy the Board is pursuing there is not bankruptcy, but it does take advantage of a provision of Hawaii law to similarly short-circuit the wind-down process. As an owner, I am thrilled they found such a provision, because it means a few more dollars more quickly for me.

 

[bnoble]

Exactly! Some people seem to be surprised and/or upset that Wyndham will probably be the major decision maker in voting to close, sell or file chapter 11 bankruptcy for properties all bearing the Wyndham name, mostly purchased directly through Wyndham, and mostly managed by Wyndham. I’m surprised anyone is surprised.

What's more, Wyndham is fully entitled to vote their ownerhsip interests however they choose. That's part of the deal of ownership---and it is one of the reasons CWA is structured the way it is; Wyndham retains voting rights for all of the properties within it. I know a lot of folks at TUG are very keen on owning only at independently managed resorts to avoid exactly this situation, and that's a reasonable position. But, for me, I'd rather cut my losses on a resort nearing the end of its useful life rather than try to keep it going with gum and bailing wire.

It's probably a lot easier for me to think this way given that I've only bought resale. I spent next to nothing to acquire my Wyndham account, so if it disappears tomorrow, that's fine. I imagine I'd be less happy if I'd bought retail.

 

[HitchHiker71]

So who pays expat. It takes time to sell property

Not if you already have buyers lined up - just saying - if this was all planned in well advance over a period of years - does anyone really think that buyers aren't already lined up for these "sure thing" property sales?

 

[HitchHiker71]

no worries, i think everyone would love to see something officially written or printed from wyndam or the resort itself confirming things one way or another.

it is a shame that the resorts own employees appear to be as much in the dark as we are

Per Wyndham corporate, it is unlikely due to legal limitations that any further communications will occur until all resort HOAs have been thusly informed and those HOAs are beyond a certain point in their own legal processes for the actions in scope.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Wow. Now we know exactly what we knew on July 10th in post #28 -- the day this whole thing started.

Yes, nothing new has been reported - we have HOA BOD contacts providing backchannel information from PP - if there's a substantive update we will be made aware of it.

 

[HitchHiker71]

You’re right, legally they don’t owe the property owners a thing. But Wyndham is the company the vast majority of owners think owns the property (except for of course any legacy owners who bought the property from someone else). Most owners are not as knowledgeable as us. They went to a sales meeting somewhere, and bought property, quite possibly never even visiting it. They likely don’t even know about an HOA. So, you’re right, legally Wyndham owes the owners nothing, But that doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do.

Wyndham has to follow the bylaws, governing documents, and all applicable state/county/township/local laws. If "the right thing to do" directly conflicts with the established legal process, then what do you really expect Wyndham to do here? Wyndham cannot supercede the law, and if they do, then they can be sued by the HOA or other entities for breaking the law. I don't think it's as simple as many would like to believe it is here. It's not a simple binary process or decision. People being uninformed is not a good enough reason to violate legal process. One thing we can be utterly certain about, Wyndham is going to follow the law, they have an entire legal department that ensures this is the case, especially when it comes to complex actions like we are seeing play out at present. Once Wyndham can legally provide more detailed communication, they intend to do so, but not until the legal processes permit. As @TUGBrian said, there are many mixes of legal requirements that seemingly make little to no sense (and he sits on HOA BODs), yet they still have to follow these laws. Wyndham is no different with this in mind. Not saying I like it, but I can understand the reasoning.

 

[HitchHiker71]

The page 1 chart "CONFIRMED?" status could/should be "upgraded" to reflect this; something like "Bankruptcy vote August 5, 2025"

Done.

 

[jp10558]

I've been there several times and it's nice for what it is, but it's in the middle of nowhere and the area does not have a lot going on for it. There's some boating and some hiking, but even inside the Wyndham timeshare system there's a lot more locations that have more going for them as far as "nature" is concerned. That is, if you don't golf. The golf courses look very nice and i'm not a golfer so I could be way off.

Looking back in time, it makes me wonder what Fairfield saw in locations like Fairfield Bay and Fairfield Glade, or places like Villa Rica and New Bern. I say time has passed these locations by... but when was the time when these locations were desirable, other than maybe because there were no other options?

That is my question too - like somewhere near 70% of TS I've been to are in or near or next to a golf course - often with a lot more to also do in the area. I'd looked at those because they are often in RCI as a last call, but I don't golf and there was nothing else to do. If I was into Golfing, I'd still probably go for one of the cheaper inland on a golf course locations on Hilton Head or Massanutten, or one of the golf things near the PGA place in FL. So even if you golf, there's just seemingly better locations, and many (like Massanutten) ALSO often show up in Last Calls...

 

[jp10558]

What's more, Wyndham is fully entitled to vote their ownerhsip interests however they choose. That's part of the deal of ownership---and it is one of the reasons CWA is structured the way it is; Wyndham retains voting rights for all of the properties within it. I know a lot of folks at TUG are very keen on owning only at independently managed resorts to avoid exactly this situation, and that's a reasonable position. But, for me, I'd rather cut my losses on a resort nearing the end of its useful life rather than try to keep it going with gum and bailing wire.

It's probably a lot easier for me to think this way given that I've only bought resale. I spent next to nothing to acquire my Wyndham account, so if it disappears tomorrow, that's fine. I imagine I'd be less happy if I'd bought retail.

Yea, the one thing that annoys me would just be the time it takes to pick up another CWS, but you have about just enough time to get it through before 2026. Or of course just take CWA if for you the MFs don't go up.

 

[Silverdollar]

Can anyone answer for me how Club Wyndham Access (CWA) members that only own developer points (not resale) are affected by the shutting down of these resorts; other than not being able to vacation at those particular locations?

It seems to me those most affected are those who own a deed at one (or more) of the resorts shutting down and could lose VIP status and/or no longer able to vacation at one (or more) of their favorite resorts. Am I getting that right?

 

[HitchHiker71]

Today's updates:

Please note an additional column has been added to track DISPOSITION - meaning how the resort will be dispositioned after it exits the Club Wyndham system effective 12/31/2025. The values of this column are documented in red text above the table itself. Basically, it's either TBD (we don't yet know), COMPLETE EXIT - such as OIRC where the resort is planned to be closed and sold off, WYNDHAM EXIT - meaning there are non-Wyndham HOAs and therefore Wyndham plans to exit the resort but the other HOAs will remain behind (such as Wyndham Shawnee), and CONSOLIDATION - meaning Wyndham is downsizing their presence at the resort - but that resort will remain in the system - typically via removal of inventory represented by a subset of the HOAs in scope.

 

[paxsarah]

Can anyone answer for me how Club Wyndham Access (CWA) members that only own developer points (not resale) are affected by the shutting down of these resorts; other than not being able to vacation at those particular locations?

It seems to me those most affected are those who own a deed at one (or more) of the resorts shutting down and could lose VIP status and/or no longer able to vacation at one (or more) of their favorite resorts. Am I getting that right?

Yes, only that you won’t be able to vacation there, and the blended maintenance fee for CWA will adjust as these resorts’ inventory are removed from the CWA trust. I’m not sure that will be super visible - I’ve seen some speculation that because these resorts are high MF it will cause CWA to decrease, but there are a lot of other high-MF resorts still in CWA that aren’t going anywhere so I’m guessing it may reveal itself as a smaller annual increase instead of a decrease.