Misrepresentation by salesman

[Venka51]

We were told by a sales rep that we could deposit our timeshare points with a financial company and a financial rep would get in touch with us to set up an account. When I called Branson they had no idea what we were talking about. Has anyone else had this happen

 

[jp10558]

Unfortunately the salespeople lie a lot. So I'm not sure how many people have heard this specific made up plan, but we have heard many tall tales offered by salespeople.

 

[andre10056]

We were told by a sales rep that we could deposit our timeshare points with a financial company and a financial rep would get in touch with us to set up an account. When I called Branson they had no idea what we were talking about. Has anyone else had this happen

Not only have I never heard of that, but I have no idea what he was even suggesting. That you can "deposit" your points with a financial company and a financial company rep would get in touch. Meaning what? What would the financial company allegedly do with your points? Would they allegedly pay you for them? Would they allegedly rent something out for you? Would they send you a nice account statement saying you had such and such amount of points in your account?

 

[pedro47]

Was that salesperson lips moving and was he/she smile. They told you a big fat untrue.

 

[Venka51]

Not only have I never heard of that, but I have no idea what he was even suggesting. That you can "deposit" your points with a financial company and a financial company rep would get in touch. Meaning what? What would the financial company allegedly do with your points? Would they allegedly pay you for them? Would they allegedly rent something out for you? Would they send you a nice account statement saying you had such and such amount of points in your aa

Yes it would be like a saving account and you make enough in a year to pay your fees. When I called they had no idea what he was talking a out. The only have vacationshare

 

[dioxide45]

Yes it would be like a saving account and you make enough in a year to pay your fees. When I called they had no idea what he was talking a out. The only have vacationshare

When you say VacationShare, it sounds like Wyndham and Wyndham isn't know for telling the truth all that often and is akin to downright lies to try and make a sale.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Lies from timeshare salespeople are the rule, not the exception. If their lips are moving...there's a reason we call them sales weasels on TUG.

 

[Venka51]

When you say VacationShare, it sounds like Wyndham and Wyndham isn't know for telling the truth all that often and is akin to downright lies to try and make a sale.

Now what do I do. It was in April but the salesman said it would be around 60 days before we heard from this supposed financial adviser. Of course we did not hear anything

 

[dioxide45]

Now what do I do. It was in April but the salesman said it would be around 60 days before we heard from this supposed financial adviser. Of course we did not hear anything

You were deceived. Your course of action may be limited since you are outside the cancellation/rescission window. You can try pushing back, but your contract has a verbal representation clause that indicates you weren't relying on anything the salesperson told you as part of the purchase and that only what was in the contact was used for consideration of the purchase. You may want to reach out to tarda.org. They may be able to provide you with some self advocacy guidance on how to proceed.

 

[andre10056]

Yes it would be like a saving account and you make enough in a year to pay your fees. When I called they had no idea what he was talking a out. The only have vacationshare

Wow! So you would be earning "interest" on your points sitting in your account. And apparently many times the interest rate that is paid on the national average checking account which is .07% (7/100ths of a percent). In fact, your interest rate somehow paid on the points sitting in your account would even pay the entire year's maintenance fee! Sounds lie SUCH a great deal to me.

I'm just a little tiny bit confused why he didn't identify the financial company so you could talk things over with them. Get your questions answered, etc. Why you had to wait until after you bought to thereafter be contacted by a financial rep. Why keep such financial company a secret when EXISTING owners of points would be lining up in droves to take advantage of that sweet deal? Instead, nobody's ever heard of this brilliant opportunity. Nobody.

 

[andre10056]

I didn't see until just now that you had actually purchased. I thought maybe you had just attended a presentation and had thereafter tried to confirm with the resort. And then tried to confirm with us. It makes me sick to hear about such fraud. Those salespeople are the lowest of the low.

 

[dioxide45]

I didn't see until just now that you had actually purchased. I thought maybe you had just attended a presentation and had thereafter tried to confirm with the resort. And then tried to confirm with us. It makes me sick to hear about such fraud. Those salespeople are the lowest of the low.

It is very common. Another problem is that people believe these salespeople and spend tens of thousands without doing any independent research. We live in a world of buyer beware. You always need to do your due diligence, especially before plunking down tens of thousands of dollars.

 

[andre10056]

Salespeople are constantly reading the people sitting in front of them in order to adjust their presentation as needed. At some point during the presentation, you must have shown some concern about the maintenance fees. So he came up with a "solution" that responded to that concern. Someone else might have been uneasy about something else. And the presentation would have been altered to invent something to respond to that concern.

 

[RX8]

Unless you want to be stuck with the timeshare, this is the time to shout from the top of the mountain.

Send Wyndham a email with your complaint requesting cancellation.
Post on their social media accounts.
Post on forums (like you did here).
File a complaint with the BBB.
File a complaint with the state AG.
Attend another sales presentation and be very loud with your complaint so all can hear.
Contact your local news watch dog.

While Wyndham will likely deny any responsibility, this is a question for the attorneys here. Can one file a small claims lawsuit against the salesperson who blatantly lied? It would be capped at $10K and would be a he said/she said but a judge may be able to see through the BS by the salesperson. I would love to see Judge Judy have her way with a timeshare salesperson. It is also possible that Wyndham would not want to see one of their employees personally sued and become a permanent public record. They just may offer a rescission to avoid it going to court.

 

[andre10056]

Unless you want to be stuck with the timeshare, this is the time to shout from the top of the mountain.

Send Wyndham a email with your complaint requesting cancellation.
Post on their social media accounts.
Post on forums (like you did here).
File a complaint with the BBB.
File a complaint with the state AG.
Attend another sales presentation and be very loud with your complaint so all can hear.
Contact your local news watch dog.

While Wyndham will likely deny any responsibility, this is a question for the attorneys here. Can one file a small claims lawsuit against the salesperson who blatantly lied? It would be capped at $10K and would be a he said/she said but a judge may be able to see through the BS by the salesperson. I would love to see Judge Judy have her way with a timeshare salesperson. It is also possible that Wyndham would not want to see one of their employees personally sued and become a permanent public record. They just may offer a rescission to avoid it going to court.

Excellent advice. Print out this and other threads and show Wyndham that you're already letting people know on timeshare forums.

 

[dioxide45]

We say that if a salespersons lips are moving, they are lying. However, the sales people have a term "buyer's are liars". In other words, since this is verbal representation, chances of wining in court are low. Winning in the court of public opinion and with social media and other complaints may be more successful.

 

[WorldT]

Unless you want to be stuck with the timeshare, this is the time to shout from the top of the mountain.

Send Wyndham a email with your complaint requesting cancellation.
Post on their social media accounts.
Post on forums (like you did here).
File a complaint with the BBB.
File a complaint with the state AG.
Attend another sales presentation and be very loud with your complaint so all can hear.
Contact your local news watch dog.

While Wyndham will likely deny any responsibility, this is a question for the attorneys here. Can one file a small claims lawsuit against the salesperson who blatantly lied? It would be capped at $10K and would be a he said/she said but a judge may be able to see through the BS by the salesperson. I would love to see Judge Judy have her way with a timeshare salesperson. It is also possible that Wyndham would not want to see one of their employees personally sued and become a permanent public record. They just may offer a rescission to avoid it going to court.

It will be a question of he said/she said . I seriously doubt the sales person created a paper trail of their lies. That will be a tough one to win

 

[RX8]

We say that if a salespersons lips are moving, they are lying. However, the sales people have a term "buyer's are liars". In other words, since this is verbal representation, chances of wining in court are low. Winning in the court of public opinion and with social media and other complaints may be more successful.

It will be a question of he said/she said . I seriously doubt the sales person created a paper trail of their lies. That will be a tough one to win

You are both probably right. A small claims lawsuit may be the last resort but I see some reasons to follow through. The cost is reasonable to file though there may be some costs to travel and one’s time. Just the act of filing may result in Wyndham granting a rescission. If it goes to court, the judge just needs to see that it was more likely than not that the salesperson lied. This is likely a lie used previously and if the OP could find just one more person/witness (asking through social media) that was told the same lie, that would be the tipping point in my view for a positive outcome. If the small claims lawsuit was successful, that could be used for leverage with Wyndham for a full rescission.

 

[DrQ]

Not a lawyer, but there is a danger in taking a corporation to small claims court in Missouri (since Branson was mentioned), but I'm sure that this holds true in other states.

IF the defendant files a counterclaim that exceeds the authority of the court (Small Claims), they can request that the case be moved to a court that has authority (Civil Court). If it gets elevated to Civil Court, you have kicked the fire ant mound and you may get stung.

 

[dioxide45]

It is also possible that the contract has an arbitration clause. If you lose there is can get expensive if you also have to cover the companies legal expenses.

 

[DrQ]

It is also possible that the contract has an arbitration clause. If you lose there is can get expensive if you also have to cover the companies legal expenses.

Arbitration can get expensive JUST to get it heard in the venue.

 

[RX8]

It is also possible that the contract has an arbitration clause. If you lose there is can get expensive if you also have to cover the companies legal expenses.

Not a lawyer, but there is a danger in taking a corporation to small claims court in Missouri (since Branson was mentioned), but I'm sure that this holds true in other states.

IF the defendant files a counterclaim that exceeds the authority of the court (Small Claims), they can request that the case be moved to a court that has authority (Civil Court). If it gets elevated to Civil Court, you have kicked the fire ant mound and you may get stung.

But I am talking about suing the salesperson personally. Since not suing Wyndham the arbitration clause wouldn’t apply. I’ve never seen this discussed before. The timeshare industry doesn’t have a good reputation and if you can gather enough proof that leans 51% on your side you may have a chance with a judge. Granted, you may not get your judgement but if it was me I would spread the fact all over social media that I proved their salespeople lie to customers to make a sale and Wyndham doesn’t care. Eventually, I would think Wyndham would rescind the contract to make this bad publicity go away (which is the ultimate goal).

 

[jp10558]

But I am talking about suing the salesperson personally. Since not suing Wyndham the arbitration clause wouldn’t apply. I’ve never seen this discussed before. The timeshare industry doesn’t have a good reputation and if you can gather enough proof that leans 51% on your side you may have a chance with a judge. Granted, you may not get your judgement but if it was me I would spread the fact all over social media that I proved their salespeople lie to customers to make a sale and Wyndham doesn’t care. Eventually, I would think Wyndham would rescind the contract to make this bad publicity go away (which is the ultimate goal).

That's a new one on me, suing a salesperson directly for something did on the job. I was going to say, most small claims top out at like $5,000 from what I know. I suppose getting a $5,000 bill for "doing my job" would make me sit up and take notice that's for sure. It's a novel theory anyway, no idea if a judge would entertain it. Still doesn't get them out of the contract.

As for Wyndham, I sincerely doubt a small claims case against an employee would convince them to do anything at all. The public already has all the info possible about the retail sales being a bad deal. It's in the news relatively often. Even if it penetrated for any large number of people, the obvious reply is just "it's one employee out of tens of thousands. They did something wrong, but our other salespeople are great!".

 

[DrQ]

That's a new one on me, suing a salesperson directly for something did on the job. I was going to say, most small claims top out at like $5,000 from what I know. I suppose getting a $5,000 bill for "doing my job" would make me sit up and take notice that's for sure. It's a novel theory anyway, no idea if a judge would entertain it. Still doesn't get them out of the contract.

Exactly. In TX, there are some cases where Small Claims damages CAN be $10K, but the contract is still in excess of that limit. Small Claims does not have the damage limit to address most timeshare contracts.

 

[andre10056]

Just got home to see follow-up responses. I'm not an attorney, will never pretend to be one, but can at the very least make mention of "issues" that I'm aware of that may allow you to make appropriate inquiries. Again, I would never say that the state of the law "is" (quote unquote) something. I don't think any good attorney would ever do so. Lawyers that I know oftentimes joke that the outcome of a case or any issue within a case, assuming a non-jury trial, may hinge on what the judge had for lunch that day. Ya never know how the judge will respond to any argument/set of arguments.

Issue: in what jurisdiction must you sue? I'm assuming it would have to be where the resort entity and the resort entity's sales office would be. Remember that the alleged purpose of the legal system is justice and fairness, and it would be both unjust and unfair to force any defendant to defend in a state distant from where the defendant does business. Maybe you could argue that Wyndham might do business in your state, but might Wyndham (assuming you choose to sue it) prevail by telling the court that our witnesses don't live in your state, the activity complained of did not occur in your state, it's not the proper site for this type of lawsuit. That argument could possibly be made by Wyndham prior to a trial actually beginning, as they would likely file a Motion to Dismiss (making arguments why it should be dismissed due to the improper forum).

Parties: The timeshare salesperson is an agent of Wyndham. Hence, it appears to me that principal (Wyndham) and agent (the salesman) law would apply. And most times a plaintiff would prefer to sue both because the principal most often has the deep pockets. A suggestion has been made that you just sue the salesperson. In that case, it's pretty certain (in my opinion) that the suit would have to be brought where the salesperson resides.

Principal-agent law: Someone has suggested that Wyndham might say, "The salesperson made a mistake but our other salespeople are great". As far as I know, a principal is responsible for the actions (or inaction) of his agent. Hence, the likelihood is that Wyndham would never say such a thing as that to me appears to be an admission that may very well lead to a judgment for the plaintiff.

Proof: I believe that the standard of proof in a civil case is "more likely than not". In a criminal case, I believe the standard of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt". Therefore, the standard of proof which must be satisfied to prevail is not as difficult as it is in a criminal trial. It's still not insignificant, however. I leave it up to you as to how you might establish "more likely than not". But, again, in a non-jury trial, it would be the judge who would make that decision, and his decisions would be made based upon not only on all his prior knowledge of the industry, etc., etc. and whatever evidence you provide (including your personal testimony that he may or may not find "credible", but also whether or not he likes you and what he had for lunch that day.

Attorney's fees. Some jurisdictions award attorney's fees to whomever prevails in the litigation. Some jurisdictions never award attorney's fees to either party. And some will leave it up to the discretion of the judge.

Small claims court. Aside from whatever the damage award limits might be (although you're really looking for the termination of your contract in addition to the return of whatever amount of money has already been paid), there may be limitations on who you can subpoena to come to the court and testify. For example, if you sue only Wyndham, you might not be able to subpoena the necessary salesperson witness, as the short but sweet small claims court case may not allow any more than the parties to appear. I would also check on whether ANY small claims court case ever involves the award of attorney's fees to either party.

Can you appeal a Small Claims Court case? I believe you can. The Small Claims Court, as far as I know, reduces the number of cases that would involve the Civil Court, but doesn't preclude you from filing in the Civil Court if the result may not have been satisfactory to you.

Judge or jury? That's tough one. Normally, when an industry has such a bad reputation, you might choose a jury trial in that juries are oftentimes more sympathetic to the little guy than the big corporate behemoth (assuming you sue the principal, Wyndham, as well as the agent). But, in this case, the more knowledgeable and informed judge may be more aware of how crooked the timeshare industry is. Maybe the jury might not have that knowledge, and may think the timeshare entity is just your normal business that gets lied about by gold diggers. Tough call. But if it's going to be Small Claims Court, jury trial will likely not be an option.

But before going the "court" route, I would exhaust every other possible means. State Attorney General, Better Business Bureau, any Consumer Fraud office, etc.

Maybe first send a letter to the District Manager of that Wyndham district, tell him what you were told, say you're still waiting to be contacted by the financial firm's rep, and ask why it's taking so long. And then see how (or if) he responds.

And if it does go the court route (whatever court), it might be a good idea to look into Legal Services Plans to have all your questions answered at no additional charge (after first paying for the legal services plan, annually or whatever).