Change to Redweek process and all those extra fees... And not in a good way....

[TUGBrian]

Hope that continues, because I'd obviously love to be able to rent our unit here than on Redweek (that was always the case, really). The new fees are whatever, but holding payment until after the stay... I've got a huge issue with that. I'm not in the business of giving Redweek a personal loan with a 0% interest rate.

we hope so too, though it could also just be the summer rush for rentals!

 

[NTP66]

Tacking on an additional 9.5% to a listing to cover Redweek's fee is rough. I'm always surprised by how much units in Maui go for, but I don't know how many would be willing to eat an additional $500-600 because of this. Outside of this past winter, I've had the same renter the last two times I put it up. Really hoping that they will be returning to Maui the next time I'm looking to rent because I can avoid all sites entirely.

 

[JohnnyO]

Except when do you actually get your money? There is a risk you won't if the renter backs out last minute.

I’m not really worried about it. I’ve gotten my money for many years now. And I’m close enough to go use the week itself if it happens. And I would be due 100% of the rental if the renter cancels at the last minute.

Redweeks rental agreement re cancellation:

• 4. Cancellations
  Renter and Owner agree to the following Cancellation Policy once RedWeek issues the Confirmation: If Renter cancels at least 65 prior to check-in, 50% of the total rental amount will be paid to the owner as a cancellation penalty, less agreed-upon fees. For cancellations less than 65 days prior to check-in, the penalty is 100% less fees.
  • 4.1. Any challenges or withdrawal of the Rent Payment are strictly prohibited per section 3.4 and will result in a cancellation of the reservation and cancellation penalties and fees will apply. RedWeek will pursue collection of these funds through all available means, including collection agency and/or legal proceedings, and maintains the right to report the unpaid debt to credit agencies.
  • 4.2. If the Owner modifies the reservation after Confirmation or neglects responsibilities required to maintain the reservation, resulting in the Unit being unavailable for Renter during the Rental Period, Owner shall be liable for any and all costs and damages incurred by the Renter and/or RedWeek for securing re-accommodation.
  • 4.3. All check-in and cancellation dates will use Pacific Time, regardless of the time zone of Owner, Renter, or Resort.
  • 4.4. All cancellations must be completed through RedWeek.com. Cancellations completed through any other channel will result in a 100% cancellation penalty.
  • 4.5. If transportation or other services are canceled by the seller of travel, all sums paid to the seller of travel for services not performed in accordance with the contract between the seller of travel and the purchaser will be refunded within thirty days of receiving the funds from the vendor with whom the services were arranged, or if the funds were not sent to the vendor, the funds shall be returned within fourteen days after cancellation by the seller of travel to the purchaser unless the purchaser requests the seller of travel to apply the money to another travel product and/or date.

 

[chapjim]

Not to insult anyone, but Kola holds the money until AFTER the renter checks in, same as Redweek. Personally, I have a HUGE problem with that. Tomeshares are not hotels. Cancellation and changes are not usually an option.

There used to be a rental site (might even have been RedWeek) that held funds until the renter had checked out (!), which encouraged trivial complaints. As a former owner-renter, I figured my responsibility ended when the renter successfully checked in. The owner shouldn't be responsible if the renter complains about being dissed by someone at the front desk.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I think RW used to do that. @chapjim

I cannot think of any other site that would have done it this way. RW does not seem to do that anymore. Koala sends money right away.

DVC Rental Store is awesome. They pay 75% upfront, 25% additional a day after the guests check in.

 

[andre10056]

I, like I'm sure others, had the hope that Redweek would reverse their "no more do it yourself" change. But they haven't done so. So it looks like they'll stick to always being involved in the rental payment which means, for the owner, the initial listing fee ($49 or $59) PLUS $99 for a successful Redweek rental. For the person renting the unit (i.e., the guest), it means paying the weekly (or whatever time period) rental rate PLUS lodging taxes of multiple hundreds of dollars PLUS Redweek service fees of multiple hundreds of dollars. Big change from DIY whereby the owner paid only the modest listing fee and the guest paid only the weekly rental rate...period.

So I understand why their change is attractive to Redweek. It might not be if Redweek had some real competition and lost a good bit of business but nobody's on their level of "familiarity by the consumer". Redweek stands alone at the top of the mountain.

My question is this, though. The weakness of DIY listings was always that it was a tremendous leap of faith by the prospective guest to send a check or make a Zelle payment to a stranger who might be a scammer. So let's theoretically assume, for the sake of argument, that we all helped myresortnetwork gain searches through our supporting posts on facebook, etc. Is there any way that we can receive payment for a DIY listing whereby the guest would have complete confidence that their money was indeed being paid to a legitimate owner? And not just make a payment to a legitimate owner, but be sure that the legitimate owner would create a guest certificate on that guest's behalf? Because I've racked my brain trying to figure out a way to have that certainty, without success. Paypal will apparently not cover commercial real estate transactions, so timeshare rentals are not covered for fraud (or so I understand). Zelle similarly provides no fraud insurance to the buyer.

Is there any way to satisfactorily respond to a prospective guest if he/she asks, "How can I be sure I will actually get what I'm paying for?".

I just had a thought. How 'bout ebay? I believe that ebay has fraud protection for anything "purchased" from their website. Might that include timeshare rentals?

 

[dioxide45]

I, like I'm sure others, had the hope that Redweek would reverse their "no more do it yourself" change. But they haven't done so. So it looks like they'll stick to always being involved in the rental payment which means, for the owner, the initial listing fee ($49 or $59) PLUS $99 for a successful Redweek rental. For the person renting the unit (i.e., the guest), it means paying the weekly (or whatever time period) rental rate PLUS lodging taxes of multiple hundreds of dollars PLUS Redweek service fees of multiple hundreds of dollars. Big change from DIY whereby the owner paid only the modest listing fee and the guest paid only the weekly rental rate...period.

So I understand why their change is attractive to Redweek. It might not be if Redweek had some real competition and lost a good bit of business but nobody's on their level of "familiarity by the consumer". Redweek stands alone at the top of the mountain.

My question is this, though. The weakness of DIY listings was always that it was a tremendous leap of faith by the prospective guest to send a check or make a Zelle payment to a stranger who might be a scammer. So let's theoretically assume, for the sake of argument, that we all helped myresortnetwork gain searches through our supporting posts on facebook, etc. Is there any way that we can receive payment for a DIY listing whereby the guest would have complete confidence that their money was indeed being paid to a legitimate owner? And not just make a payment to a legitimate owner, but be sure that the legitimate owner would create a guest certificate on that guest's behalf? Because I've racked my brain trying to figure out a way to have that certainty, without success. Paypal will apparently not cover commercial real estate transactions, so timeshare rentals are not covered for fraud (or so I understand). Zelle similarly provides no fraud insurance to the buyer.

Is there any way to satisfactorily respond to a prospective guest if he/she asks, "How can I be sure I will actually get what I'm paying for?".

I just had a thought. How 'bout ebay? I believe that ebay has fraud protection for anything "purchased" from their website. Might that include timeshare rentals?

The main issue is that owners want payment methods where the renter can't easily chargeback or dispute and the renters want payment methods where they can easily chargeback or dispute.

 

[heathpack]

The main issue is that owners want payment methods where the renter can't easily chargeback or dispute and the renters want payment methods where they can easily chargeback or dispute.

The thing is that renters want cheaper prices compared to what they’d pay through the hotel chain but they don’t want to give up the features that go with that- ie being able to cancel or reschedule, being able to complain and get some kind of compensation. The basic transaction is that the renter gets something for a discounted price and instead of paying entirely for their lodging with $, they pay with a combo of $ + risk assumption. We all knows there are ways of “vetting” the other party and most rental transactions go smoothly. But it takes educating yourself and a little bit of effort.

When I was in LA and occasionally could not use a VGC reservation at Disneyland, I’d rent the reservation. My approach was to go to the DL website and look at Disneys total cost- nightly rate, taxes, resort fee, and parking- for the cheapest hotel room at the resort. Then I’d price my rental at 60% of Disneys price- so my renter would get something a little better (studio vs hotel room) at a great price. Eventually I started to list an option with generous cancellation policy for 20% discount over Disney- to make the point that you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

So I’m not that sympathetic to the renters need for eliminating risk because there’s already a way to do that. Book directly through Disney. Otherwise pay me by check or money order well in advance.

Renting has never been a big part of my timeshare ownership strategy and Redweek never worked well for me when I did rent. It’s a shame Redweek is gone as a viable option but basically their changes are designed to meet that renter desire to have their cake and eat it too. It’s not unreasonable for that to cost renters more. However Redweek has to play their role flawlessly (not even close), they need to assume some of the complaint compensation cost, and they need to leave the timeshare owner out of paying the price for the renters “assurances”. It’s sad that there’s no venue for the previous model- in which renters could get a really good price if they could tolerate some risk.

 

[LMills]

I think RW used to do that. @chapjim

I cannot think of any other site that would have done it this way. RW does not seem to do that anymore. Koala sends money right away.

DVC Rental Store is awesome. They pay 75% upfront, 25% additional a day after the guests check in.

The last I looked at Kola, the rules stated they held the rental until 48 hours after checking in. If this has changed I will go to them for my advertising.

 

[dioxide45]

The last I looked at Kola, the rules stated they held the rental until 48 hours after checking in. If this has changed I will go to them for my advertising.

I think @rickandcindy23 meant that Koala paid out immediately after guest checked in vs. after checkout.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Why wouldn't you list with Koala? It's free and no risk. Redweek requires a fee upfront to list, and they guarantee absolutely nothing for that money.

 

[DeniseM]

I will never list with a company that holds the funds - that's a deal killer for me.

 

[dioxide45]

I will never list with a company that holds the funds - that's a deal killer for me.

Where do you list now that even Redweek no longer offers full DIY and the ability to collect payment upfront?

 

[rickandcindy23]

You can still advertise a float period of time for any resort and collect the money yourself.

 

[NTP66]

You can still advertise a float period of time for any resort and collect the money yourself.

Really? I’m going to have to look into that. I wonder what happens if you go that route and specify the week in the description. Wonder how much RW cares.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Really? I’m going to have to look into that. I wonder what happens if you go that route and specify the week in the description. Wonder how much RW cares.

They do not care. They still get the listing fee.

 

[andre10056]

Really? I’m going to have to look into that. I wonder what happens if you go that route and specify the week in the description. Wonder how much RW cares.

Well since Redweek made the change in order to maximize income, I'm sure they will care once they see multiple owners circumventing their "full service " listings. So, to the extent this methodology is now being advertised on TUG, expect to have that loophole removed very soon.

Loose lips sink ships.

 

[dioxide45]

The problem is, will potential renters really even see those float listings?

 

[BigDawgTUG]

Why wouldn't you list with Koala? It's free and no risk. Redweek requires a fee upfront to list, and they guarantee absolutely nothing for that money.

I really, really, really would like to see Koala succeed, but I've just given up on them. Over the past couple of years, I've listed scores of rentals and not one single success story. In contrast, many, many successful rentals on Redweek. In my opinion, Koala just doesn't have enough traffic. If they've not been able to develop the traffic in two years, they either do not know what they are doing or they are underfunded. So why not list with Koala? I guess I just got tired of wasting my time.

 

[andre10056]

I really, really, really would like to see Koala succeed, but I've just given up on them. Over the past couple of years, I've listed scores of rentals and not one single success story. In contrast, many, many successful rentals on Redweek. In my opinion, Koala just doesn't have enough traffic. If they've not been able to develop the traffic in two years, they either do not know what they are doing or they are underfunded. So why not list with Koala? I guess I just got tired of wasting my time.

Same here. I could have truthfully said everything you said. Everything....with the exception that I'm still wasting my time, hoping for my first success. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Isn't that the definition of insanity?

 

[NTP66]

The problem is, will potential renters really even see those float listings?

This is one of my main concerns. I don't have to post another rental until next year, so I guess I have time to see how others have done in the meantime.

With regards to posting on other sites, if the site is free, I'll post on it. No brainer there. I still post on MyResortNetwork even though I have never had a single hit on it, because you never know.

 

[richardm]

Koala has improved the last 60 days. Some of that is likely just increased summer demand, but my lead activity on Koala has trended up while Redweek has fallen sharply. I'm seeing far more Koala advertising on Google and Facebook, but it currently is geared to timeshare owners and not renters. Hopefully they'll keep up the marketing budget but convert some of those ads to target renters instead of just timeshare owners.

At this point, I think people check Redweek quickly first because it is what they are used to using. Then, when they see the big reduction in adverts- they go elsewhere.

Do understand, though, that this Redweek decline varies by timeshare brand. Redweek's policies REALLY hurt them in regards to the Wyndham brand- and that was the most active of the timeshare systems on the rental market. Other brands like Disney, Marriott, Hilton, and Westin are not being impacted as much- but as those brands get more aggressive in stopping owner rentals they may follow Wyndham's lead with increased restrictions and blackouts.

The true concern for timeshare owners should be that it is an industry that seems to be shifting from selling timeshare loans to rental operations. As timeshare buyers continue to decline, developers keep focusing more on rentals for income. [Take a look or listen at your resort developers last earnings call and compare those numbers and ratios from prior years and you'll see how their income streams are changing.] And thus, they are now looking at by-owner rentals as "competition" to be eliminated. With so many timeshare systems now operating from point based "internal exchange" systems and thereby facing fewer legal hurdles and penalties in restricting owner usage- the trend to use heavy handed tactics will only increase. If you are a timeshare owner, really take a hard look at your own personal usage expectations over the next five to ten years. If you plan on using more than you are renting (or trying to rent), great! If not, get that timeshare ownership isolated into a trust so you have a little insulation from potential future changes that may really restrict your options in a few years.

 

[richardm]

MyResortNetwork has been disappointing to me as well. When it was acquired/partnered by Seth Nock , I was told there were serious plans to invest in the website- in operation and design as well as marketing. Unfortunately, I haven't see any indication of that yet.. Hopefully, it is still something that happens.. In my opinion, however, it is probably just being used as a piece in a bundle of websites/companies that he's shopping to investors. I hope I'm wrong....

 

[NTP66]

I legit thought MyResortNetwork was a fake site at first because of how dated it looked, lol. Doesn't seem to have progressed at all over the last 5+ years.

 

[rickandcindy23]

MyResortNetwork has been disappointing to me as well. When it was acquired/partnered by Seth Nock , I was told there were serious plans to invest in the website- in operation and design as well as marketing. Unfortunately, I haven't see any indication of that yet.. Hopefully, it is still something that happens.. In my opinion, however, it is probably just being used as a piece in a bundle of websites/companies that he's shopping to investors. I hope I'm wrong....

I had no idea Seth Nock partnered with MRN. I haven't gotten a single inquiry for my listings.

I did know that Sam Rodriguez, salesperson with sellingtimeshares.net, Seth's website, advertises heavily on MRN. I see his listings.

Koala takes seconds to put up a listing. It's not a waste of time. More listings drives more renters. That's how Google works, is my understanding. Key words in a search produce results.

I think Koala should organize listings better. RW is easier to navigate. Koala could fix it.