Email - notice of CLUB WYNDHAM plus Rule Violation

[gottashiner]

Anybody else receive this? I have done nothing different than I’ve done in the last 15 years.

Dear ,

You are in receipt of this letter as a means to inform you that your Account has been associated with reservations and/or activities that could be in violation of the CLUB WYNDHAM PLUS Member’s Directory and Program Guidelines (the “Guidelines”). The Guidelines provide that the “Program is for a Member’s own personal use and enjoyment and not for any commercial purposes” (the “Commercial Use Prohibitions”). As further stated in the Club Wyndham Directory, Wyndham “reserves the right at its sole and reasonable discretion to restrict CLUB WYNDHAM PLUS program services/access to members who engage in behaviors that negatively impact the CLUB WYNDHAM PLUS program, its members and resort guests, its resort properties and/or Wyndham employees”.

If any of your future reservations include commercial use, they need to be cancelled immediately. If commercial use is identified with any of your future reservations, all such reservations will be cancelled.

Any additional violations of the Commercial Use Prohibitions or other violations of Club rules may subject your Membership to additional penalties such as restricted use of Guest Confirmations, restricted membership rights up to and including privileges being suspended or terminated.

Please sign and return the attached acknowledgement to the address and/or email address provided within fifteen (15) calendar days.
If you have questions regarding the above violations, please contact Owner Resolution & Strategy at 1-833-542-2155 or Accountinformation@wyn.com.

 

[jp10558]

I think this is the well known anti-renter letter. You can't rent out Wyndham reservations except through their Extra Vacations system, and I don't think they'll let you run it as a business. Lots of posts about this. So you should have a large proportion of stays checked in by you personally, I think I've seen people say at least half, but there's no hard and fast rule.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

If you keep renting you’re going to likely see your reservations get cancelled and your ability to book rooms suspended for a time. There can be other punitive measures as well. @rickandcindy23 can probably talk a little bit more about all the bad things Wyndham can do with you post-warning.

 

[dioxide45]

I think this is the well known anti-renter letter. You can't rent out Wyndham reservations except through their Extra Vacations system, and I don't think they'll let you run it as a business. Lots of posts about this. So you should have a large proportion of stays checked in by you personally, I think I've seen people say at least half, but there's no hard and fast rule.

You can certainly rent Wyndham reservations through outlets other than Extra Vacations. Lots of people do it. What they are likely finding with the OP is a pattern of activity that looks to be commercial activity. That is what is prohibited. Commercial activity can be detected in several ways.

• Guest certificates are added to reservations that constitute a large percentage of your total points.
• Lots of guest reservations year after year.
• Speculative reservations. Meaning many reservations are cancelled close to the 15 day prior to checkin mark.

 

[paxsarah]

• Guest certificates are added to reservations that constitute a large percentage of your total points.
• Lots of guest reservations year after year.
• Speculative reservations. Meaning many reservations are cancelled close to the 15 day prior to checkin mark.

I’ll add just from prior waves of letters I’ve seen reported on Facebook, advertising that can easily be traced back to your real name/account. There was at least one owner who received a letter who had only rented once, but had posted that rental in a public FB group.

 

[RENTER]

You can certainly rent Wyndham reservations through outlets other than Extra Vacations. Lots of people do it. What they are likely finding with the OP is a pattern of activity that looks to be commercial activity. That is what is prohibited. Commercial activity can be detected in several ways.

• Guest certificates are added to reservations that constitute a large percentage of your total points.
• Lots of guest reservations year after year.
• Speculative reservations. Meaning many reservations are cancelled close to the 15 day prior to checkin mark.

 

[chapjim]

You can certainly rent Wyndham reservations through outlets other than Extra Vacations. Lots of people do it. What they are likely finding with the OP is a pattern of activity that looks to be commercial activity. That is what is prohibited. Commercial activity can be detected in several ways.

• Guest certificates are added to reservations that constitute a large percentage of your total points.
• Lots of guest reservations year after year.
• Speculative reservations. Meaning many reservations are cancelled close to the 15 day prior to checkin mark.

This sums it up well. I got "the letter" in October 2021. At the time, I had thirty free guest confirmations per year. I ran out the third week in February and bought 53 more (for $5,247) before being shut down. Rental activity in 2021 was typical of the previous few years.

Speculative reservations. I booked most reservations at thirteen or ten months before check-in. Two months before check-in, I tried to re-book and/or upgrade. If successful, I had forty-five days max to complete a rental transaction. If a rental was not completed, I canceled the reservation somewhere between fifteen and twenty days before check-in. (I do something for our own use that might be mistaken for speculative reservations (in a way, they are speculative). Next fall, I have a HVC reservation close to home. I have reservations at Panama City Beach (Studio LL) and Emerald Grande (1 BR Deluxe) for the same week. Two of the three reservations will be cancelled, depending on upgrades at PCB or EG, most likely at or shortly after the two month discount/upgrade window opens, not at fifteen days before check-in.)

I have always thought that large-scale listing was something that tipped off Wyndham to commercial use. Now I'm not so sure. The three items listed by @dioxide45 are easily searched by Wyndham in its own records. No need to search eBay/RedWeek/Facebook listings.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I can reiterate what @chapjim said.

We received the first letter such a long time ago. I know new letters go out regularly. I have heard that from someone "in the know" on these warnings. What I also know is that Wyndham will never let rentals go again because they clearly believe they get to do the rentals, whether through RCI, which is quite blatant, and through Extra Holidays, or whatever it's called.

I love a few of the Wyndham resorts, but most are just so-so. We are keeping one Founder's account with barely enough points with our PIC to keep it as Founder's. I am loving Marriott and Westins for most of our 22 weeks a year of travel. I still want to venture east and stay in those resorts a few times. We do love Shearwater. I can trade into that one. We love Bonnet Creek.

I wanted to try the Avon resort, but Rick is negative on that because of the parking fees.

 

[easyrider]

Rick is negative on that because of the parking fees.

I'm not a fan of parking fees either but will pay them if there is nothing else in the area available to us. We like Waikiki but I'm not willing to pay the $420 a week self parking fees so we bought resorts that include the parking.

Bill

 

[rickandcindy23]

I'm not a fan of parking fees either but will pay them if there is nothing else in the area available to us. We like Waikiki but I'm not willing to pay the $420 a week self parking fees so we bought resorts that include the parking.

Bill

There are options in Avon/ Vail that do not have parking fees. That is the crux of the problem with Wyndham in Avon and in Atlanta. I realize they have limited garage space, but I have options in most places. We can stay at a nice Marriott hotel in Atlanta.

If we get a 3 bed for our kids to join us in Avon, we have to take two cars, two parking fees. I think the fees per car are up to $45. It's Avon, so lots of Marriott, Hyatt, and of course Westin, and no parking fees.

We live 90 minutes away from Avon. We have options, and the Wyndham has no real swimming pool. It's the size of a hot tub. Our grandkids wouldn't enjoy that. Westin works for us. Free parking, beautiful pool area.

 

[Floridaman76]

Step 1: use the timeshare for yourself
Step 2: don't rent your timeshare


It's really that simple

 

[RENTER]

Step 1: use the timeshare for yourself
Step 2: don't rent your timeshare


It's really that simple

 

[Eric B]

Step 1: use the timeshare for yourself
Step 2: don't rent your timeshare


It's really that simple

... not what the Wyndham timeshare salesmen say...!

 

[HitchHiker71]

... not what the Wyndham timeshare salesmen say...!

That's true - we attended an update last week while at TOTG - they pitched buying more points and using vacationshare.com for rentals and the allotment of additional points we were purchasing would pay all of our MFs. After debating the finer points, and forcing them to show their work - you know - basic mathematics - it turns out they were assuming we would rent roughly 1/3 of our points and that would cover roughly 50% of our MFs. Problem is, we use almost 100% of our points allotments for our own vacations, and the 90k additional CWA points we were pitched to purchase wouldn't come close to covering our MFs (not even 10%). We left with our gift shortly thereafter LOL.

 

[WManning]

That's true - we attended an update last week while at TOTG - they pitched buying more points and using vacationshare.com for rentals and the allotment of additional points we were purchasing would pay all of our MFs. After debating the finer points, and forcing them to show their work - you know - basic mathematics - it turns out they were assuming we would rent roughly 1/3 of our points and that would cover roughly 50% of our MFs. Problem is, we use almost 100% of our points allotments for our own vacations, and the 90k additional CWA points we were pitched to purchase wouldn't come close to covering our MFs (not even 10%). We left with our gift shortly thereafter LOL.

Wyndham math never adds up! Let me ask what was cost on the 90,000 additional points? How would you get a return on the sunk cost of the additional points??? I'm sure there was a lot of scribble on thier offer sheet.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Wyndham math never adds up! Let me ask what was cost on the 90,000 additional points? How would you get a return on the sunk cost of the additional points??? I'm sure there was a lot of scribble on thier offer sheet.

I don't recall the discount rate on the CWA points - I do have the puke price at $316/1000 points - this is the current MSRP for CWA. IIRC the "discount rate was around $218/1000 but don't quote me. It was an equity trade deal giving us the "original" cost of our 210k points - plus adding 90k points for a total of 300k points or VIPB without our PICs. They were trying to make the age old argument that we could lose our PIC contracts at any point in time (sure, technically true - but it rarely happens in reality). We were really just playing around with them. We rarely attend sales updates these days and if I was ever serious about buying more points it wouldn't be from any retail sales location. The only reason we did was because we were there for two weeks and it was raining the morning we went.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Step 1: use the timeshare for yourself
Step 2: don't rent your timeshare


It's really that simple

If you want to avoid any/all risk - I'd modify these rules as follows:

1. Use your timeshare primarily for personal vacations
2. Rent a minority of your total timeshare allotted points using EH/vacationshare.com (Wyndham's rental arms).

If you do the above, I'd conservatively estimate you will never run into the dreaded rental "cease and desist" letter that is the topic of this post. Folks like @RENTER that don't use the blessed Wyndham rental arms likely have what I'd generally state is temporarily flexibility because they bought up to VIPP/VIPF with Wyndham, and if you're going to spend that much on retail timeshare purchases these days, Wyndham is likely going to give you some "space" for a while to help recoup the considerable amount of dollars involved. I'd also surmise that "space" won't last forever - and eventually - as others have experienced - the party comes to an end - at least for third party rentals outside of the Wyndham rental arms. In my view this isn't altogether a bad thing, as folks like RENTER - whenever that threshold that no one can define is crossed - then just rent through EH/vacationshare.com and get what you can get.

 

[Floridaman76]

... not what the Wyndham timeshare salesmen say...!

That's true - we attended an update last week while at TOTG - they pitched buying more points and using vacationshare.com for rentals and the allotment of additional points we were purchasing would pay all of our MFs. After debating the finer points, and forcing them to show their work - you know - basic mathematics - it turns out they were assuming we would rent roughly 1/3 of our points and that would cover roughly 50% of our MFs. Problem is, we use almost 100% of our points allotments for our own vacations, and the 90k additional CWA points we were pitched to purchase wouldn't come close to covering our MFs (not even 10%). We left with our gift shortly thereafter LOL.

We all know that people renting through the officicial mechanism (Extra Holidays/Vacationshare or whatever it's called now) are not the ones getting the letters...

It's the ones renting either personally or through some other unsanctioned mechanism.

It's been almost 4 years since the hammer came down some it's time to stop pretenting that Wyndham's sales people are advocating renting your points in any other way except through Wyndham. Claiming otherwise is being obtuse or intellectually disingenuous.

I was at an update this weekend and played dumb when they were asking about renting, actually trying to get the sales guy to tell me that I could rent my points and this one, for all his other faults, was pretty firm to that line.

Yes, the math is beyond ridiculous and unless you are founders, get a discount and an upgrade and hit the jackpot, it's not very appealing to me to even try to mess with renting at this point.

Admittedly I would bet there are some people who get the letters in error, and that sucks. But playing dumb about this is beyond tiring at this point.

 

[am1]

I am glad I rented out thousands of reservations at half the cost of the smallest unit. When the guest fee was first introduced I focused on the larger units as the guest fee was easier to factor into the pricing.

With a way to get extra free guest confirmations and Wyndham depositing millions of points in my accounts by error/unknown reason and even after bringing it to their attention they had no way to undo it or explanation. I figured out what caused it.

Wyndham got their strikes in as though by cancelling my rooms in error giving away my room in AC one weekend when I actually showed up. There was only one 4 bedroom presidential to stay in and a model so I made them give us the model unit.

One NYE I had over half of skyline tower booked but possibly because it was mid week demand was low so I had dozens of rooms sit empty but I could only correspond by email at the time so I sent the email in to cancel the rooms but was received after so Wyndham ended up eating the empty rooms not me.

I checked in 100s of guests on site to avoid the guest confirmation fee. For a short time I called the resorts to avoid the fee. Then at ocean walk check in all guests for the week when I drove over from Bonnet Creek. Then I could only do day of so check in guests December 30th at Bonnet Creek, drove to Daytona for the same drive to Pompano Beach for to do that, Orange Bowl. The next day back to Daytona then Orlando to watch the fireworks from building 6. Good times.

I always believed the commercial activity was in regards to the use of the actual room while staying there. Apparently the sales team and management agreed with when I first purchased as well as when I was pushed out of the airplane. But with few people to fight them over it they do what they want.

This website, or a few people on here probably did more harm to being able to rent than anything else. If one has a good thing going go about it quietly. I'd rather money in the bank than people on a message board thinking I am knowledgeable.

 

[Floridaman76]

Regardless of how you did it, or how under the radar you think you flew. You and everyome else that did it did damage to everyone's owership. People like you hastened the removal of our ability to use resale points with VIP privlages. There's no denying that. Was that day going to come? Yeah, I think we all knew it would, but people using millions of resale points making commercial bookings and running their own personal AirBNB while owners can't get a week somewhere led directly to the music stopping.

We all know that "if their lips are moving..." line, and I find it ultimately hypocritical and hilarious how some of you hide behind "the salesmen said we could", but literally know every single thing they say is a lie. And you didn't buy most of your points which you used for your rental businees from Wydham anyway.

Be real, be honest, because you arent. Cool story though

 

[am1]

Regardless of how you did it, or how under the radar you think you flew. You and everyome else that did it did damage to everyone's owership. People like you hastened the removal of our ability to use resale points with VIP privlages. There's no denying that. Was that day going to come? Yeah, I think we all knew it would, but people using millions of resale points making commercial bookings and running their own personal AirBNB while owners can't get a week somewhere led directly to the music stopping.

We all know that "if their lips are moving..." line, and I find it ultimately hypocritical and hilarious how some of you hide behind "the salesmen said we could", but literally know every single thing they say is a lie. And you didn't buy most of your points which you used for your rental businees from Wydham anyway.

Be real, be honest, because you arent. Cool story though

I got a ceast and disist letter early on for the email name Wyndhamrentals.

I agreed to no longer be an owner once I was backed up against the wall and knew the waitlist was coming. I did everything I could to get the points as cheap as possible and then the reservations using the less points possible.

When a value week was beside a prime week I would do split reservations so most of the week was value and the last 2 days prime.

I know how hard I worked and the risk I took to make it work. Also the luck of walking through the Florida Mall and touring Bonnet Creek the next day. First staying at a Knights Inn for a night helped opened the eyes of potential.

I still have Wyndham Rewards points from when I transferred from club Wyndham. Poor conversion but worked out well.

My only regret is I did not find a way to make more money when I could.

 

[CO skier]

It is a mystery to me why megarenters of yore still post about their defunct rental businesses ten nine years after Wyndham took away the punch bowl and the police raided the party.

Are they really that self-centered?

 

[rickandcindy23]

It is a mystery to me why megarenters of yore still post about their defunct rental businesses ten years after Wyndham took away the punch bowl and the police raided the party.

Are they really that self-centered?

I guess time is dragging for you. It hasn't been quite that long. About half that.

 

[CO skier]

I guess time is dragging for you. It hasn't been quite that long. About half that.

OK. Nine years. The point remains exactly the same.

[2016] Account review email [Accts. suspended]

Has anyone ever received and email from Wyndham like this and what does it mean Acting in our capacity as manager for CLUB WYNDHAM Plus, we have identified unusual activity on your account. We are currently in the process of reviewing and reconciling your account. During this period, your...

tugbbs.com

[Accts. reviewed/frozen] Please see the poll ABOVE this thread

PLEASE VOTE IN THE NEW AND IMPROVED POLL HERE: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246057 Please only vote in the poll if you are a Wyndham points owner. Please note that it is multiple choice - you can choose multiple answers. Your vote will be PRIVATE (your name will not show.)

tugbbs.com

 

[chapjim]

It is a mystery to me why megarenters of yore still post about their defunct rental businesses ten nine years after Wyndham took away the punch bowl and the police raided the party.

Are they really that self-centered?

It's over. Why does it still bother you so much?

Some of us like to talk about old times now and then.