I'm baaaaaack! And considering re-entering the TS world

[LisaRex]

Welcome Back!
.....Now run for the exit!

We are in a similar, but different situation. Similar in that we are nearing 60 (2026) and looking at snowbird options. Living on the East coast, we have decided to buy a home in Florida (We are still big Disney people) but not near the Parks.

We have scaling back are DVC points to around 1700 and would like to get rid of Atlantis after this summer (wish me luck on that). We are keeping the WSJ units.

Instead of buying, why not look into renting from Owners here, Redweek or similar websites?

After a bit of searching around, we’ve decided that you’re right and renting from owners is the way to go. Hoping we can rent multiple OF weeks and have then daisy chain them at check in.

 

[LisaRex]

We gave away our WSJ weeks (!!!) a few years ago. It had become too expensive for overall travel to StJ (Air/Car/MFs), plus following H.Irma it had become less desirable with the hard corals destroyed (snorkeling-wise). We also moved to NorCal (Sonoma County) and bought a home that is like a mini resort. We miss StJ, but was time to move on.
Good luck in your search.

I get it. WSJ snorkeling was so sweet before the hurricane.

Welcome back. I for one can't comprehend why you would want to get back into TS after making a successful escape. As others mention there are a few nuances that have transpired in the years you've been away. I'm in the minority but not having access to Abound would be a drawback in your life situation.

Thx for your perspective. I was motivated by the idea that I could daisy chain multiple ownership weeks with one phone call for a 4-6 week stay. Since that doesn’t seem an option, owning loses some of its appeal.

Sad to hear that Maui has lost some of its appeal after the horrendous fire. It was such a special place.

 

[Henry M.]

I just stayed 23 days at WKORVN in April/May and have a four week reservation for October. I plan to stay 1-2 months at various times going forward. I have not had any issues making reservations multiple weeks in a row, particularly if you're not going to Maui at the height of summer or whale season.

I would find it hard to deal with many owners to string long vacations together. Ideally you would find someone with a lot of weeks willing to do the reservation work for you. The Vistana web site allows you to reserve 21 days at a time 8 months before arrival.

 

[WahooWah]

After a bit of searching around, we’ve decided that you’re right and renting from owners is the way to go. Hoping we can rent multiple OF weeks and have then daisy chain them at check in.

It works until it doesn't. Once the market bounces back you will wish that you were an owner and not a renter.

 

[Ken555]

It works until it doesn't. Once the market bounces back you will wish that you were an owner and not a renter.

It’s easy to buy, and difficult to sell.

 

[LisaRex]

I would find it hard to deal with many owners to string long vacations together. Ideally you would find someone with a lot of weeks willing to do the reservation work for you. The Vistana web site allows you to reserve 21 days at a time 8 months before arrival

It used to be that using star options meant that you lost the OF view that we owned. But I believe they increased the number of SOs you got for OF units which enabled you to reserve an OF unit after the owners window closed. Is that still the case? The biggest downside to waiting now is that the early bird gets the better view in their view category.

I just stayed 23 days at WKORVN in April/May and have a four week reservation for October. I plan to stay 1-2 months at various times going forward. I have not had any issues making reservations multiple weeks in a row, particularly if you're not going to Maui at the height of summer or whale season.

I would find it hard to deal with many owners to string long vacations together. Ideally you would find someone with a lot of weeks willing to do the reservation work for you. The Vistana web site allows you to reserve 21 days at a time 8 months before arrival.

My goal is multiple weeks in winter, which would require diligently calling 365 days out for multiple weeks in a row. That’s not ideal.

I will try renting multiple weeks from different owners and see if I can convince the check in folks to assign me the same room the whole time. I’ll let you know how it goes.

 

[LisaRex]

It’s easy to buy, and difficult to sell.

True! And it’s become very easy to rent on Maui. Part of the reason we were thinking of buying a condo is that prices have softened and OF places we used to dream about are actually affordable…until you consider the HOA fees and property taxes you’d have to pay on a place that would sit empty a good deal of the year.

Renting from an WKORV owner is probably the best move for us.

 

[LisaRex]

It works until it doesn't. Once the market bounces back you will wish that you were an owner and not a renter.

Nah. I’ve been both and there is virtually no difference in level of enjoyment between the 2.

And, you know, the world's a big place.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

It used to be that using star options meant that you lost the OF view that we owned. But I believe they increased the number of SOs you got for OF units which enabled you to reserve an OF unit after the owners window closed. Is that still the case? The biggest downside to waiting now is that the early bird gets the better view in their view category.

My goal is multiple weeks in winter, which would require diligently calling 365 days out for multiple weeks in a row. That’s not ideal.

I will try renting multiple weeks from different owners and see if I can convince the check in folks to assign me the same room the whole time. I’ll let you know how it goes.

OF are very rarely available to reserve using SO at the 8 month mark. They do often pop up around the 2 month mark as owners cancel the reservations that they were unsuccessful in renting in order to retain unrestricted SO back to their account.

I think getting the check in staff to daisy chain 2-3 rental weeks together is quite unlikely but as they say, you'll never know if you don't try.

 

[Ken555]

It used to be that using star options meant that you lost the OF view that we owned. But I believe they increased the number of SOs you got for OF units which enabled you to reserve an OF unit after the owners window closed. Is that still the case? The biggest downside to waiting now is that the early bird gets the better view in their view category.

I only had one OF unit years ago using SOs at eight months, and that was a studio in building 5 overlooking the restaurant for a few days. I wasn’t that impressed.

Since the SO valuation changed for OF and they added views to the reservation process, now I know exactly what view category I will have when I arrive. I’ve been able to book OF twice at south, in a studio, yet I’ve seen one beds available numerous times. I don’t search for two beds regularly, so no idea if those are as readily available.

Keep in mind there’s a very small risk associated with booking OF, or other view categories with only a limited number of units. Now that we have Marriott managing the resort in a much more bureaucratic manner, there are policies that irk me at times. In particular, I had a studio deluxe unit in the south that should never have been cleared for occupancy and to remedy the issue they spent hours and hours…and though I requested a regular studio instead anywhere management refused to move me since it was a different category and Marriott has decided that there shall be no movements between categories. So, with OF, there are also limited number of units available for checkin on the same day, so let’s hope there isn’t a similar issue. Admittedly, this is an extreme example of a low risk possibility, and yet…now we know resort management is constricted for helping beyond moving you to a unit in the same exact view category.

 

[rickandcindy23]

The view matters for a "daisy chain" of weeks at Westin South. If you rent multiple weeks that are labeled oceanfront, there are two types of OF. There are the center OF units, and there are the units that are on both sides of the center, which are also OF. If you rent a combination of those units, you aren't necessarily going to stay in the same unit. Even so, the resort is very accommodating about holding your items until your unit is available to occupy.

This is one of my beefs with Redweek. They have Oceanfront only and no way to tell them it's center oceanfront. I have mentioned in my comments when listing that the studios we are renting are center oceanfront. Big difference between the two location-wise. RW has never added our specific unit type in the ad in the comments. They add a bunch of stupid fees to the ad, which hurts the rental (parking fees and housekeeping fees that aren't charged to our guests).

 

[Henry M.]

I forget, at KOR South, is there a difference in the number of Staroptions needed for the center units, vs the corner units? There's a significant size difference for the 1BR side of the unit.

 

[WahooWah]

No difference.

I forget, at KOR South, is there a difference in the number of Staroptions needed for the center units, vs the corner units? There's a significant size difference for the 1BR side of the unit.

And as a response to renters, wait until the market rebounds and see what rental rates will be then. 2023 was a good barometer. Not 2025.

 

[WahooWah]

If you plan on returning to Maui frequently you will see. Things will change.

Nah. I’ve been both and there is virtually no difference in level of enjoyment between the 2.

And, you know, the world's a big place

 

[rickandcindy23]

I forget, at KOR South, is there a difference in the number of Staroptions needed for the center units, vs the corner units? There's a significant size difference for the 1BR side of the unit.

Same SO's.

 

[LisaRex]

If you plan on returning to Maui frequently you will see. Things will change.

Change will absolutely happen. Our 1st visit to Maui was 2004 and I rented a OF suite in Wailea Marriott for $2100 and used Delta SkyMiles to book free airfare. SkyMiles are worthless now and that hotel doesn’t even exist any more but lodging rates skyrocketed over the next 20 yrs…, as did MFs. Started at $1700 and was maybe $3700 when I sold.

However, the pendulum did swing and rental/purchase prices for condos are down considerably from last time I looked 4 yrs ago.

Anyway, I considered buying because I hoped I could stay 1 month in the same unit with 1 phone call, which it turns out is not possible. But the economics of buying 4 weeks v renting is at WORST a wash given I'll be 60 next year and can only reasonably snowbird for 15-20 more yrs. Split the difference and call it 18 yrs for the calculation:

WKORV OF 2 bdrm are going for ~$35.000/wk to clear ROFR, so I’d have to take $140,000 out of investments now and lose ~18 yrs of compounded interest.

$140,000 @ 5% over 18 yrs is ~$343,000. Assuming I recoup my entire $140,000 purchase price in 2048, I lost $203,000.

As long as I can rent at WKORV for $203,000 ABOVE THE COST OF MFs over those 18 yrs, the worst I do is I break even. That’s $11,277/yr or $2800/wk. I doubt it’ll be difficult to find an owner willing to rent for MFs + $2800, even in 18 yrs, unless things REALLY change.

 

[dioxide45]

Change will absolutely happen. Our 1st visit to Maui was 2004 and I rented a OF suite in Wailea Marriott for $2100 and used Delta SkyMiles to book free airfare. SkyMiles are worthless now and that hotel doesn’t even exist any more but lodging rates skyrocketed over the next 20 yrs…, as did MFs. Started at $1700 and was maybe $3700 when I sold.

However, the pendulum did swing and rental/purchase prices for condos are down considerably from last time I looked 4 yrs ago.

Anyway, I considered buying because I hoped I could stay 1 month in the same unit with 1 phone call, which it turns out is not possible. But the economics of buying 4 weeks v renting is at WORST a wash given I'll be 60 next year and can only reasonably snowbird for 15-20 more yrs. Split the difference and call it 18 yrs for the calculation:

WKORV OF 2 bdrm are going for ~$35.000/wk to clear ROFR, so I’d have to take $140,000 out of investments now and lose ~18 yrs of compounded interest.

$140,000 @ 5% over 18 yrs is ~$343,000. Assuming I recoup my entire $140,000 purchase price in 2048, I lost $203,000.

As long as I can rent at WKORV for $203,000 ABOVE THE COST OF MFs over those 18 yrs, the worst I do is I break even. That’s $11,277/yr or $2800/wk. I doubt it’ll be difficult to find an owner willing to rent for MFs + $2800, even in 18 yrs, unless things REALLY change.

Is that calculation assuming that the week is worth $0 resale at the end of those 18 years? It might be or it might not still be worth $30,000. In either case, it is still hard to make the math work.

 

[LisaRex]

This is one of my beefs with Redweek. They have Oceanfront only and no way to tell them it's center oceanfront. I have mentioned in my comments when listing that the studios we are renting are center oceanfront. Big difference between the two location-wise. RW has never added our specific unit type in the ad in the comments. They add a bunch of stupid fees to the ad, which hurts the rental (parking fees and housekeeping fees that aren't charged to our guests).

I have a love/hate relationship with RW and I agree! When looking at purchasing at WKORV, it’s hard to tell, but at least you can deduce by the MFs. I am certain that there is a resale buyer or 2 who didn’t realize that their sweet OF Center 2 bdrm could not be locked off because of the non-partitioned lanai.

A few years ago I was looking to buy a Marriott Monarch TS in Hilton Head. Same frustration because the building and unit number is not a required field and that’s an essential piece since most units were sold as fixed week/fixed unit. If owners don’t list it in the comments, you have to send a query and hope for a response.

1 owner paid RW to act as the agent, and I knew more about the resort than the RW agent did. Gave me completely false information! Listed a unit as a floating OF week, but when I knew with 100% certainty that no OF units were sold as float weeks, only garden view. Big difference, right?

When pressed, she insisted that the ad was correct, even though the deed listed a non-OF building. Said it didn’t matter bc it was float week.

So I contacted a Marriott reseller who confirmed that only 2 bldgs were sold as float weeks, and they were all garden view. He said that many owners were confused and assume they can market their unit as OF because it's an OF RESORT.

Agent didn’t respond to me after that but changed the ad.

Had I bought that unit, I don’t know what my recourse would have been when I my OF marketed as OF had no view at all.

 

[LisaRex]

Is that calculation assuming that the week is worth $0 resale at the end of those 18 years? It might be or it might not still be worth $30,000. In either case, it is still hard to make the math work.

No, it assumes it’s worth the $140,000 paid in 2025, which I agree is hard to predict. I know that I sold OF WKORV-N for ~$25,000 8 yrs ago and it’s within that same ballpark today, but that’s only 1 data point.

You can make a case that older TSa are ripe for expensive SAs to keep up with new bldg codes and energy requirements, but you can also argue that older TSa are usually in prime locations with bigger space vs newer, swankier ones.

I was actually surprised that the sheer number of units added with North and Nanea haven’t brought resale and rental rates down farther. There are thousands of units listed on RW but very few rental bargains. I know when I rented out my unit, I only asked $500 or more above MFs because I wanted a guaranteed sale.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

No, it assumes it’s worth the $140,000 paid in 2025, which I agree is hard to predict. I know that I sold OF WKORV-N for ~$25,000 8 yrs ago and it’s within that same ballpark today, but that’s only 1 data point.

You can make a case that older TSa are ripe for expensive SAs to keep up with new bldg codes and energy requirements, but you can also argue that older TSa are usually in prime locations with bigger space vs newer, swankier ones.

I was actually surprised that the sheer number of units added with North and Nanea haven’t brought resale and rental rates down farther. There are thousands of units listed on RW but very few rental bargains. I know when I rented out my unit, I only asked $500 or more above MFs because I wanted a guaranteed sale.

You are correct about the lack of rental bargains. There are one or two to be had but they are usually require last minute (<60 days) flexibility on being able to travel. For instance, in the next 60 days there are 2-3 listings of what we own, a 2BR IV at WKORVN, for about 75% of what we paid in MFs.

I'm also never sure on RW if posters actually verify what they have listed or how much for (even when using RWs V&P service). For example there is currently a 1BR IV at WKORVN listed for 7 nights at $1,429/night in July. That's only $1,000/night more than some OV/OF are listed for

 

[LisaRex]

I'm also never sure on RW if posters actually verify what they have listed or how much for (even when using RWs V&P service). For example there is currently a 1BR IV at WKORVN listed for 7 nights at $1,429/night in July. That's only $1,000/night more than some OV/OF are listed for

Hope springs eternal! RW ads often have me scratching my head. I guess they think they can ask what the hotel rents these units for, with no cancellation policy or guarantee that it’s a legit owner. I’ve also run into quite a few people who post ads but never respond to questions, like “Is this a fixed or float week?”

I also scratch my head at the number of owners who let weeks go unused. My friend recently bought a nice Myrtle Beach Marriott TS from her aunt, who hadn’t used it since her kids left home a decade ago. What?! I’ve literally given weeks away to my family and friends vs letting it go unused.

 

[4TimeAway]

What?! I’ve literally given weeks away to my family and friends vs letting it go unused.

Agreed.

Some sysyem allow for saving to geting future credits to use, but even those have to be used.

HGVC has worked for us fairly well. There's just too many options on which system, where and so many rules. Renting is the easy call and if you ever want to buy, its only a a few dollars away.

 

[rickandcindy23]

You can buy an ocean view unit for $9-10K via Syed at Westin South, rent the studio every year for $1800 or so in MF's and stay in the 1 bedroom cheaply. Just an idea.

Too many people are renting Westin right now to get a good deal of cash from the studios, even OF. I had to reduce my price to a ridiculously low amount to get it rented for July 4th week. So much competition.

 

[LisaRex]

You can buy an ocean view unit for $9-10K via Syed at Westin South, rent the studio every year for $1800 or so in MF's and stay in the 1 bedroom cheaply. Just an idea.

Too many people are renting Westin right now to get a good deal of cash from the studios, even OF. I had to reduce my price to a ridiculously low amount to get it rented for July 4th week. So much competition.

Thank you so much for the suggestion. But we are targeting OF because we spend so much time on the lanai enjoying the ocean. Being landlocked 11 months of the year, it's pretty important for us. North's lanai worked out fine, but South OF Center was dreamy and spacious. (Not sure about Nanea because it wasn't completed the last time we visited.) F irst world problems, as they say.

We are fine paying for 2 bdrms even if it sits empty some of the time because we hope that our friends and family can join us occasionally.

Glad you were able to find a renter. Like I said, the few times I rented, I listed it for just $500 above MFs, because I was most concerned with recouping my MFs, not making money on it.

PS I think you can daisy chain reservations at the Marriott TSs if you're a multi-week owner, but I'm so spoiled by the Westins and (IMO) its superior location, that I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do.

 

[dioxide45]

North's lanai worked out fine, but South OF Center was dreamy and spacious. (Not sure about Nanea because it wasn't completed the last time we visited.) F irst world problems, as they say.

The lanai at Nanea is quite large, but they have most of it taken up by a large table to seat 6. Great for those that want to dine out on the lanai, but not great for just lounging.