Cars Are Rolling Computers Now. So What Happens When They Stop Getting Updates

[DrQ]

Cars Are Rolling Computers Now. So What Happens When They Stop Getting Updates?​

Phones are supported well beyond their average ownership lifetime. In stark contrast, automakers are struggling to work out how long their “smartphones on wheels” can be kept on the road.

Cars Are Rolling Computers Now. So What Happens When They Stop Getting Updates?

Phones are supported well beyond their average ownership lifetime. In stark contrast, automakers are struggling to work out how long their “smartphones on wheels” can be kept on the road.

www.wired.com

This was the tipping point in replacing our 2015 Hyundai Genesis. I loved the car and babied it, but I also loved the telematic features:

• Hands-free google search for POI's that could be directly loaded into the navigation system or call on phone
• Push-button concierge / Crash notification / SOS (Like Onstar)
• Remote access via app or web to start/stop car and check its location and status

This was all done over the cellular network over 3G. GM has its own inhouse telematics service, Toyota, Honda, and others sub it out. GM has a large financial stake in keeping thes subscriptions going, other manufacturers, maybe not so much.

 

[joestein]

Can updates be done through USB sticks?

 

[DrQ]

Can updates be done through USB sticks?

If it's just a S/W issue.

This is a H/W issue. The modules in the cars were built around 3G technology. These models are out of production and the manufacturer (or 3rd party) would have to re-engineer, test and probably certify a 4G replacement which would be VERY expensive. The 3G chips are probably buried in a module which contains other car functions, so 3rd party solutions would have to totally reverse engineer the module first and then run into patent/copyright issues.

ETA: All the features I listed RAN over the cellular network, so when they retired 3G, they no longer work. Tommy can you hear me?...

 

[jp10558]

Yea, the quick retirement of 3G and what must be a plan to kill 4G now that they already have 5G would make me very nervous to a) build something like a car that required something that's changing hardware standards so fast (or I'd insist it be a tiny module I can change out like an air filter) or b) buy anything where I'm planning to use those features unless there's an easily changed module.

I'm sure in 2015 the car makers thought 3G would be around as long as 2G, which was like 30+ years. Hopefully in 2024 they're making the modules easy to change out.

 

[Elan]

They could make a good portion of the HW modular such that it could be upgraded for minimal cost. But where's the money in that??

 

[jp10558]

They could make a good portion of the HW modular such that it could be upgraded for minimal cost. But where's the money in that??

Well, the money is in not tarnishing your brand to be thought of as "disposable". I know the car manufacturers would love everyone to buy a new car every 3 years, but that's a pipe dream of theirs. If they get the reputation of crapping out some major feature in a short amount of time, that will hurt the sales somewhat. The question always is - is it enough to matter? IDK, somehow Stellantis is still holding on as did Kia so what do I know?

 

[rickandcindy23]

Our car is 21 years old, it's a Toyota Avalon. The car's computer for date on the display expired a few years back. In order to see the current date, we had to find a year in the range of years that matched the current year, so it would say the correct day of the week, but if you click through to see the year, it's not 2024, I can tell you that. I don't remember what year we put into it for 2024. We had to change the year on 2/29/2024 once again because it was showing as 3/1 (leap year).

 

[Elan]

Well, the money is in not tarnishing your brand to be thought of as "disposable". I know the car manufacturers would love everyone to buy a new car every 3 years, but that's a pipe dream of theirs. If they get the reputation of crapping out some major feature in a short amount of time, that will hurt the sales somewhat. The question always is - is it enough to matter? IDK, somehow Stellantis is still holding on as did Kia so what do I know?

Agree, maybe not planned obsolescence, but I'm quite confident many update/upgrade vehicles to get the latest infotainment features -- bigger screen, wireless connectivity, etc.

 

[easyrider]

It's about $600 for a new infotainment system installed. I added one to the Lincoln Towncar. If I had a do over I would get the Kenwood with 4 camera outputs. My Sony only has the rear camera.

Bill

 

[gravityrules]

It's about $600 for a new infotainment system installed. I added one to the Lincoln Towncar. If I had a do over I would get the Kenwood with 4 camera outputs. My Sony only has the rear camera.

Bill

Does your Town car have a somewhat standardized DIN or double DIN opening? The recent vehicle infotainment systems don't appear to be standardized mechanically or electronically. Doesn't that mean most newer vehicles don't have a non OEM option?

 

[Carolinian]

I'll stick with classic cars where I do not have to worry about computers. And my MGB is a lot more fun to drive.

 

[easyrider]

Does your Town car have a somewhat standardized DIN or double DIN opening? The recent vehicle infotainment systems don't appear to be standardized mechanically or electronically. Doesn't that mean most newer vehicles don't have a non OEM option?

It's double din. I had an option to go with a larger screen size but like that the screen on my stereo fits the opening.

Bill

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

This is my 2013 Cadillac XTS-4 Premium. I now have 150,000-ish miles on it. The first tech issue is, 2005-2015 OnStar systems ran on 2G wireless, so once that ended, all the Onstar systems were "bricked". The 1999-2005 OnStar systems ran on Analog, they were bricked when that system ended. On 2016 and up, they run on either 3G or 4G, and once those systems end, those OnStar systems will also be bricked. The second tech issue is the CUE (aka infotainment) system, it blanks out after 45 minutes. The only fix is to replace the HMI (aka "computer"), that costs $800 for the part and a dealer will charge 2 hours including programming. The third issue is the automatic headlight aiming, which costs $1500 per headlight, or I can ignore the warnings and manually adjust the headlight if needed (something mechanics did for decades).

The car is paid off, I call it a tribute to my late wife. The color is officially called "Sapphire Blue", which is my birthstone (September), and we were married in September 2009.

 

[DrQ]

... The first tech issue is, 2005-2015 OnStar systems ran on 2G wireless, so once that ended, all the Onstar systems were "bricked". The 1999-2005 OnStar systems ran on Analog, they were bricked when that system ended. On 2016 and up, they run on either 3G or 4G, and once those systems end, those OnStar systems will also be bricked. ...

I'm wondering if after the 2G OnStar fiasco, GM would make the communication module a stand alone/upgradable component. GM make a lot of money off OnStar subscriptions and they would do well to keep that portion future proof.

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

I'm wondering if after the 2G OnStar fiasco, GM would make the communication module a stand alone/upgradable component. GM make a lot of money off OnStar subscriptions and they would do well to keep that portion future proof.

We speak logic, but carmakers look at $$$. Think about it, if a major part is bricked, instead of replacing the part for $1000, the owner could buy a new car for $50,000, putting more money into profits. The newer GM cars have software-based 3G or 4G systems, so they can be upgraded. All 1999-2016 GM cars are hardware-based, which is why they're bricked.

TS

 

[DrQ]

We speak logic, but carmakers look at $$$. Think about it, if a major part is bricked, instead of replacing the part for $1000, the owner could buy a new car for $50,000, putting more money into profits. The newer GM cars have software-based 3G or 4G systems, so they can be upgraded. All 1999-2016 GM cars are hardware-based, which is why they're bricked.

TS

3G is not software based:

Can a 5G SIM work in a 3G phone?​

No, a 5G SIM is not compatible with a 3G phone due to differences in network technology requirements.​

​

Compatibility of 5G SIM cards with 4G phones:​

Yes, a 5G SIM will work in a 4G phone. While 5G SIM cards are designed to work with 5G-enabled devices, they are also backward compatible with 4G phones. This means that you can insert a 5G SIM card into a 4G phone and still use it to access 4G networks. However, you won't be able to take advantage of the faster speeds and other benefits offered by 5G technology.​

It looks as if 4G is a subset of 5G.

IDK what OnStar did with its digital platform, but I do know that OnStar is a sizable: $2 billion in annual revenue with a projected growth to $6 billion in annual revenue. It is to their best interest to keep the suckers on the hook (for the record, I am one). As we get older, the telematic services are attractive for older demographics to maintain independence.

 

[JudyH]

We have a 2013 Suburban. It had OnStar which saved us when we broke down in 2015 high above Moab Utah with no cell service.
But that was 2G or 3G and now it is no longer available and we have no more OnStar in the truck ( which we hope to keep forever, 75,000, 3/4 ton no longer made).