Buying a vehicle

[VacationForever]

You know, when my Outback got to 6.5 years old and started having an oil leak, I was like, ehh, I don't go in to the office daily anymore so I don't need the "always ready to go" that used to keep me trading cars relatively frequently. Then it started just not being ready to go for trips and I realized that while I don't need a car ready to go every day of the week, or even every month necessarily, I do want to be pretty sure I can get in and go *sometimes*. I still think there's a 50/50 chance the shop I went to for the oil leak massively screwed up the car in a subtle way, or else I ended up with a lemon that showed it's spots nearing 7 years old. Either way, after ~6 times basically in a row not being able to use it, for various levels of issues, I lost confidence in the car, or well, the shops ability to fix the car anyway. After 4 stints at the local shop and 2 at the dealer, one for 1.5 months, it might have been fixed. I was able to successfully go to Myrtle Beach and back without it having a drive stoppage issue. It just didn't feel right though, and it did that before the first dealer trip that started various big replacements. So I thought, better trade it while I can get something out of it.

IDK if I have a point here exactly, this was the first Subaru in the family to scare us off before 10 years old. I know people talk up Toyota / Lexus, but the up front cost is way too much more IMHO. I looked at a Highlander but it quickly fell out of the running because of a few things.

1. no off road model like Honda or Subaru offer.
2. I'm not sure they even had a spare donught tire.
3. only offered in 4cyl turbo - I really didn't like the turbos in the Outback 23 I had as a loaner, it didn't get better gas mileage and was a lot more to go wrong IMHO.

I asked the Toyota salesman if they had anything comparable to the Pilot Trailsport and the Grand Highlander was what he showed me. I'm kind of thinking he should have showed me a 4Runner or Sequoia IDK, but I didn't feel the Grand Highlander really was at all comparable. It felt more like a competitor to like the Telluride or standard Pilot.

Anyway, I still miss the bang for buck up front for Subaru, the top of the line Ascent with every add on package was around the price of the Trailsport which doesn't have a bunch of the Black edition features. Just the Ascent was really uncomfortable to sit in. I might have gritted my teeth on the turbo 4 and annoying driver aid and infotainment system and small concern now about the CVT transmission, but it just wasn't comfortable so I wasn't going to go to a less comfortable vehicle than my Outback.

And like someone else said, for $20,000 for an Acura or more for a Lexus, I can live with less fancy leather and maybe needing one extra repair.

We are on our 4th Subaru, currently an Ascent (2020) and it is waaaay more comfortable than the Outback. We had the Legacy (2011), Outback (2012) and Outback (2015). We cheated on Subaru and bought a Lexus ES350 (2018) and hated the fake adaptive cruise control and dumped it within a year and went back to Subaru. Subaru's adaptive cruise control is superior to most brands. We lost $22K on the Lexus after a year and will absolutely never buy a Toyota or Lexus in the future. We owned 3 BMWs before the Subarus and may go back to a BMW. BMWs are wonderful to drive but suck at reliability.

 

[jp10558]

We are on our 4th Subaru, currently an Ascent (2020) and it is waaaay more comfortable than the Outback.

IDK what to say, the front seats when we sat in the 2024 Ascent vs the 2023 or 2018 Outback were just bad. The weird slidy thing under the thighs in the drivers seat was kind of the death knell. The second row captain's chair seats were slightly too small for us and very firm and quickly to use felt like sitting on a cheap banquet chair (the metal kind with the thin pad). We are a range of body types and sizes. To be fair, of the three it went (on a 1-100 scale) 35 for the Ascent, 75 for the Outbacks, 90 for the Pilot and 95 for the Grand Highlander. I do somewhat regret the rest of the Grand Highlander was such a let down for what I wanted.

Subaru's adaptive cruise control is superior to most brands.

This I can believe. The 2025 Pilot is roughly equivalent to the 2018 Outback. It detects non painted road edges which the Outback wouldn't do, but it only lets you set the speed to 25 vs 20 in the Outback, and the 2023 Outback was the stand out - I could lock it in on the highway and do things you shouldn't do, and it'd would stay in the lane and going near perfectly. The Pilot won't do that, OTOH I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage me to take both hands off the wheel and focus on say eating for a couple seconds, or my phone or the like.

 

[VacationForever]

IDK what to say, the front seats when we sat in the 2024 Ascent vs the 2023 or 2018 Outback were just bad. The weird slidy thing under the thighs in the drivers seat was kind of the death knell. The second row captain's chair seats were slightly too small for us and very firm and quickly to use felt like sitting on a cheap banquet chair (the metal kind with the thin pad). We are a range of body types and sizes. To be fair, of the three it went (on a 1-100 scale) 35 for the Ascent, 75 for the Outbacks, 90 for the Pilot and 95 for the Grand Highlander. I do somewhat regret the rest of the Grand Highlander was such a let down for what I wanted.

This I can believe. The 2025 Pilot is roughly equivalent to the 2018 Outback. It detects non painted road edges which the Outback wouldn't do, but it only lets you set the speed to 25 vs 20 in the Outback, and the 2023 Outback was the stand out - I could lock it in on the highway and do things you shouldn't do, and it'd would stay in the lane and going near perfectly. The Pilot won't do that, OTOH I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage me to take both hands off the wheel and focus on say eating for a couple seconds, or my phone or the like.

IDK what to say as well. With the longer wheel base, the ride in the Ascent is very comfortable and smooth. Every once in a while the dealer will give us a latest model Outback as a loaner and we then realize how uncomfortable is the Outback. We give rides to our friends in our Ascent when we go timesharing and they love the comfort of the Ascent. Our regular guests when we timeshare is a wife of about 300 lbs and the husband is about 200 lbs. They have an Audi Q5 SUV. I wonder if the 2024 Ascent has become uncomfortable.

 

[Bucky]

Bucky...I sure hear you!!!
I guess that as you age you have more experiences to help with your decision making.
All those GM vehicles we owned sure did the job. They were pretty basic and so maintaining them was pretty easy. The few things that went wrong were mechanical.....easy to fix....although an inconvenience.
Now, the cars are so complex...computer this...turbocharged that....and the time of the backyard mechanic is pretty well over.
And so...our choices are pretty varied. My husband is a car buff and appreciates well made cars. And when luxury cars go on sale second hand...they tend to be well looked after. We do not buy new....so the depreciated Acura or Lexus is usually a good financial decision.
And they...all our hard earned knowledge is thrown out the window when a pretty little Mustang GT catches our eye.
And there you go.....put a smile on your face...you have worked hard...enjoy life the best you can.
I keep on saying I want a lovely little Lexus SC....a sporty cute convertible....but I look at the back seat and figure nope...don't need it that badly.

This is what my son wants me to buy...a 2014 Highlander with 41 thousand Km. What a practical purchase eh? But...I still love my TL.
View attachment 92144

We owned 2014, 2016 & a 2018 Highlanders. Just check out the safety features that matter to you before purchasing one of these. All 3 model years had new safety features that were mportant to us. The 2014 was an XLE, the 2016 was a Limited and the 2018 was a Platinum.all of them were great vehicles with no problems.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

IDK what to say as well. With the longer wheel base, the ride in the Ascent is very comfortable and smooth. Every once in a while the dealer will give us a latest model Outback as a loaner and we then realize how uncomfortable is the Outback. We give rides to our friends in our Ascent when we go timesharing and they love the comfort of the Ascent. Our regular guests when we timeshare is a wife of about 300 lbs and the husband is about 200 lbs. They have an Audi Q5 SUV. I wonder if the 2024 Ascent has become uncomfortable.

The Subaru Ascent is a beautiful vehicle but it's too bad that it doesn't share the same reliability of the Subaru Forester. Not sure why Consumer Reports doesn't speak more favorably about the Ascent. Maybe you can shed a little light on that?






.

 

[VacationForever]

The Subaru Ascent is a beautiful vehicle but it's too bad that it doesn't share the same reliability of the Subaru Forester. Not sure why Consumer Reports doesn't speak more favorably about the Ascent. Maybe you can shed a little light on that?






.

It has been very reliable. There was one recall on a transmission issue where they took almost 2 years to have a software upgrade to fix it. Our Ascent only had 10K miles on it when we got the recall notice, but without a fix. We were told that we could bring the vehicle in for a "visual" inspection to check the transmission. We did, and the transmission had to be replaced because it showed wear and tear, due to the recall issue. It was replaced without cost. When the software fix was released, we took the vehicle for another check and it was fine. They could not quite explain it but I think when we got the new transmission, the software that went with it was not the problematic one.

We are now in our 5th year, bought in Dec 2019, and it has about 38K miles on it. Still love the ride and and it performs well. Its turbo is really powerful too. You step on the accelerator when you need to overtake the vehicle in front and it does it very quickly and smoothly on a 1-lane (on each way) highway. We commute 3 times a year between California/Arizona and Nevada for our drive-to vacations.

We won't buy a Forester as it is really an entry-level vehicle for the Subaru brand.

 

[Brett]

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/...ions-4a4c3d63?mod=personal-finance_lead_story


The company has a team of five professional negotiators and makes about $200,000 in revenue a month.

Payam Amiri spent weeks studying Mikula’s videos before walking into a dealership to buy his first new car. Once there, he focused on negotiating the outthe-door price, instead of debating monthly payments, which can obscure the true cost of a vehicle.

Pitting dealers against each other forces them to cut into their own margins to win business, rather than simply passing along standard rebates funded by automakers

Armed with competing quotes and market data, many negotiations end quickly once a dealer agrees to compete on price.

 

[TolmiePeak]

His videos are great.

 

[easyrider]

I was convinced that Toyota has the best lineup but their newer vehicles went hybrid, e v, or worse yet the small turbo engines. The new Highlander for 2027 is e v. I guess the best Toyota SUV could be the 2022 - 2024 4runner with the 6 cylinder engine and 5 speed transmission. The Limited is pretty nice.

Bill

 

[Elan]

I was convinced that Toyota has the best lineup but their newer vehicles went hybrid, e v, or worse yet the small turbo engines. The new Highlander for 2027 is e v. I guess the best Toyota SUV could be the 2022 - 2024 4runner with the 6 cylinder engine and 5 speed transmission. The Limited is pretty nice.

Bill

4 of our 6 cars are turbo. From a 1.6L sports car to a 3.5L twin turbo full size truck. I've never had a turbo issue.

Sent from my Pixel 9a using Tapatalk

 

[easyrider]

4 of our 6 cars are turbo. From a 1.6L sports car to a 3.5L twin turbo full size truck. I've never had a turbo issue.

Sent from my Pixel 9a using Tapatalk

We tend to keep vehicles for a long time and I would rather have a naturally aspirated v-6 or v-8 than a turbo 4 or 6. It's just two less thing to worry about. With a 4runner I would rather have the v-6 with 5 speed transmission.

Bill

 

[Bucky]

View attachment 123251

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/...ions-4a4c3d63?mod=personal-finance_lead_story


The company has a team of five professional negotiators and makes about $200,000 in revenue a month.

Payam Amiri spent weeks studying Mikula’s videos before walking into a dealership to buy his first new car. Once there, he focused on negotiating the outthe-door price, instead of debating monthly payments, which can obscure the true cost of a vehicle.

Pitting dealers against each other forces them to cut into their own margins to win business, rather than simply passing along standard rebates funded by automakers

Armed with competing quotes and market data, many negotiations end quickly once a dealer agrees to compete on price.

Brokers have been around for a long time but really started to thrive during Covid and the addendum stickers that were showing up on many vehicles. Anyone that is uncomfortable negotiating might want to consider them. I belong to many car forums and it always amazes me when people post asking if they are getting a good deal or not. If one has to ask they should probably consider a broker. Paying up to $1000 to save 4-5K you cannot get on your own just makes sense for some. Most of these brokers are doing nothing that an informed buyer cannot do on their own. They just have a wider market of dealers and in many cases dealing with a fleet sales manager who is most often able to make deals that no salesperson can.

 

[jp10558]

Brokers have been around for a long time but really started to thrive during Covid and the addendum stickers that were showing up on many vehicles. Anyone that is uncomfortable negotiating might want to consider them. I belong to many car forums and it always amazes me when people post asking if they are getting a good deal or not. If one has to ask they should probably consider a broker. Paying up to $1000 to save 4-5K you cannot get on your own just makes sense for some. Most of these brokers are doing nothing that an informed buyer cannot do on their own. They just have a wider market of dealers and in many cases dealing with a fleet sales manager who is most often able to make deals that no salesperson can.

If I thought someone could save me $4,000 heck yes I'd pay them $1,000. But I think a lot of that is in cars that aren't that in demand so there's lots of negotiation to do. For me, from Subaru I was specifying the package in detail so would wait for it to come in from the factory - I doubt there's a lot to do there. With Honda, if I go that way again (I'm actually pretty on the fence - the Pilot Trailsport is ... acceptable, but has a number of kinda annoying issues) now that I know any options are installed at the dealer, then I suppose you could cross compare more easily.

 

[Brett]

If I thought someone could save me $4,000 heck yes I'd pay them $1,000. But I think a lot of that is in cars that aren't that in demand so there's lots of negotiation to do. For me, from Subaru I was specifying the package in detail so would wait for it to come in from the factory - I doubt there's a lot to do there. With Honda, if I go that way again (I'm actually pretty on the fence - the Pilot Trailsport is ... acceptable, but has a number of kinda annoying issues) now that I know any options are installed at the dealer, then I suppose you could cross compare more easily.

But one would still need quotes from a couple of dealers which is a hassle

 

[easyrider]

If I thought someone could save me $4,000 heck yes I'd pay them $1,000. But I think a lot of that is in cars that aren't that in demand so there's lots of negotiation to do. For me, from Subaru I was specifying the package in detail so would wait for it to come in from the factory - I doubt there's a lot to do there. With Honda, if I go that way again (I'm actually pretty on the fence - the Pilot Trailsport is ... acceptable, but has a number of kinda annoying issues) now that I know any options are installed at the dealer, then I suppose you could cross compare more easily.

I love our Honda but I doubt we buy another but it could happen. We were on the fence with the Lexus RX 350 but have since decided that maybe a 4runner Limitted would be a better for what we do. I'm thinking 2024 v-6 with 5 speed transmission.

Have you test drove the Pilot Trail Sport yet ? I think it has the same v-6 that our Ridgeline has so it would be zippy. The one thing I like about Honda over Toyota is the acceleration.

Bill

 

[silentg]

Years ago my husband wanted to buy a Lincoln Continental, I found one on sale low miles and reasonably priced. When I call the dealership they said they sold it. We were disappointed. A few days later they told us the deal fell thru and asked if we were still interested, we went and test drove it. We still have the car, it is a beauty. Not sure if there was another deal that fell thru but we have been pleased with the car. It is a 2011 but has a lot of life left in it!

 

[easyrider]

Years ago my husband wanted to buy a Lincoln Continental, I found one on sale low miles and reasonably priced. When I call the dealership they said they sold it. We were disappointed. A few days later they told us the deal fell thru and asked if we were still interested, we went and test drove it. We still have the car, it is a beauty. Not sure if there was another deal that fell thru but we have been pleased with the car. It is a 2011 but has a lot of life left in it!

I think I remember a picture of it. A dark pearl blue Lincoln. Very nice color and car. We bought a 2010 soon after seeing yours. Unfortunately, a deer hit it so we need some work done. We love the ride on road trips.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

Unfortunately, a deer hit it so we need some work done. We love the ride on road trips.

So what did your insurance decide on your loss? Repair or total loss?

 

[easyrider]

So what did your insurance decide on your loss? Repair or total loss?

It has been kind of odd. Originally they wanted to tow the car 3 1/2 hours away to an inspection facility which is next to the IAA. So I think they wanted to total it off the get go. A live adjuster did get a hold of me earlier this week and requested more info. That's where we are as of now. It looks like repair costs might be over $5000. I had thought there was under 60,000 miles on the car but it's at 73,000 which brings the KBB price down to about $9,400 on the high end and $7,800 on the low end of private party. Trade in value is as low as what I spent on tires last November, lol.

No word yet. It's interesting that the tires , wheels, window tint and stereo system might be worth more than the car, lol.

Bill

 

[jp10558]

I love our Honda but I doubt we buy another but it could happen. We were on the fence with the Lexus RX 350 but have since decided that maybe a 4runner Limitted would be a better for what we do. I'm thinking 2024 v-6 with 5 speed transmission.

Have you test drove the Pilot Trail Sport yet ? I think it has the same v-6 that our Ridgeline has so it would be zippy. The one thing I like about Honda over Toyota is the acceleration.

Bill

Oh, I've owned it since April of 2024. I don't think it's that zippy it's got a 10 speed automatic so a bunch of gears to get going. Though TBH I drive in economy mode and don't try and do anything too sudden in such a big and tall SUV. The thing I like about it over a 4Runner is it's less truck like (though maybe just barely) and bigger. At the time I wanted something at least as good a Subaru's off road on the occasional use of that and the bad roads around here. So paying a lot more for the TRD package in a Sequoia didn't seem worth it. But the V6 is 285HP which seems like plenty to me for my use. I really think what lets Honda down is the half baked electronics - the mechanicals seem as rock solid as Subaru, and maybe better not being a CVT.

The sensors seem flummoxed by rain, snow, falling leaves, and spring vegetation fluff. And the door locking is the most random and least consistent I've EVER had. We joke that it "does what it wants". Subaru was easy since IDK 2012 or so. Fob in pocket, walk up to door, hand on door handle, door unlocks, open door and get in. Leaving hand on door handle, open door, hit lock all button, close door. I only touched the fob to put in my pocket in the morning and to put on my table at night.

Honda requires you hit the button 95% of the time to lock or unlock. It fails in various random ways if you don't, while making a dinging noise.

 

[DrQ]

No word yet. It's interesting that the tires , wheels, ... stereo system might be worth more than the car, lol.

That's the sad truth about older cars. They are WORTH to us much more than their actual cash value (ACV) for which we pay an arm and a leg to insure for comprehensive/collision.

 

[silentg]

It has been kind of odd. Originally they wanted to tow the car 3 1/2 hours away to an inspection facility which is next to the IAA. So I think they wanted to total it off the get go. A live adjuster did get a hold of me earlier this week and requested more info. That's where we are as of now. It looks like repair costs might be over $5000. I had thought there was under 60,000 miles on the car but it's at 73,000 which brings the KBB price down to about $9,400 on the high end and $7,800 on the low end of private party. Trade in value is as low as what I spent on tires last November, lol.

No word yet. It's interesting that the tires , wheels, window tint and stereo system might be worth more than the car, lol.

Bill

Yes I did post a photo of our Lincoln, we have had good luck with it so far. Sorry about your encounter with a deer.
It’s the most comfortable car for long trips.

 

[WinniWoman]

That's the sad truth about older cars. They are WORTH to us much more than their actual cash value (ACV) for which we pay an arm and a leg to insure for comprehensive/collision.

We still have collision coverage on our 2013 and 2016 SUV's. LOl! Our insurance on both is under $1000 annually total.

 

[joestein]

4 of our 6 cars are turbo. From a 1.6L sports car to a 3.5L twin turbo full size truck. I've never had a turbo issue.

Sent from my Pixel 9a using Tapatalk

But the Turbos all require premium Gas. By me - Premium is expensive. The Exxon I go to often is $3.73/gallon regular but Premium is $5.19/gallon. That is a 39% premium. NO WAY!

Costco is a bit better at $3.65/gallon regular and $4.31/gallon premium. That is only an 18% premium - but I am not waiting on those huge lines. Sometimes each line is 10 or 15 cars deep.



ALSO..... wanted to mention that late last year, I finally brought my 2020 MDX into Acura for the fuel rod recall. They kept the car overnight and provided a loaner. Luckily, my fuel rods or whatever they actually check were not defective. I guess they opened up the engine and then probably examine what is going on and then they replace some parts and close it back up.

I was pretty nervous about having the engine taken apart for the recall - but I actually think the car gained some 'pep' after the recall - even though they didn't replace much. MY wife also noticed it.

 

[Elan]

But the Turbos all require premium Gas. By me - Premium is expensive. The Exxon I go to often is $3.73/gallon regular but Premium is $5.19/gallon. That is a 39% premium. NO WAY!

Costco is a bit better at $3.65/gallon regular and $4.31/gallon premium. That is only an 18% premium - but I am not waiting on those huge lines. Sometimes each line is 10 or 15 cars deep.



ALSO..... wanted to mention that late last year, I finally brought my 2020 MDX into Acura for the fuel rod recall. They kept the car overnight and provided a loaner. Luckily, my fuel rods or whatever they actually check were not defective. I guess they opened up the engine and then probably examine what is going on and then they replace some parts and close it back up.

I was pretty nervous about having the engine taken apart for the recall - but I actually think the car gained some 'pep' after the recall - even though they didn't replace much. MY wife also noticed it.

Actually, two are Ford Ecoboost (3.5L and 1.6L) powered and they run on 87. The BMW and Lotus are both tiny engines (2.0L and 1.6L) and they use premium. Also helps that I'm at a reasonable altitude (2700' ASL), making premium less of a necessity.

The impact on overall fuel cost of having 2 vehicles that run on premium is negligible and at least somewhat offset by the increased mpg of having the smaller displacement turbo engines.

Sent from my Pixel 9a using Tapatalk