Westin via Marriott or Vistana

[Gemini Chica]

I understand that Westin can still be booked under the old Vistana website/system as well as the MVC. Do they have different inventory or all the same pot?

 

[Eric B]

The developer allocates inventory to the VSN, Abound, II, and non-VSN ownerships as separate buckets based on the estimated demand per the timeshare governing documents.

 

[Gemini Chica]

The developer allocates inventory to the VSN, Abound, II, and non-VSN ownerships as separate buckets based on the estimated demand per the timeshare governing documents.

Ok thank you, so then it's plausible someone from original Vistana can see more inventory than I can with MVC.

 

[Hindsite]

Ok thank you, so then it's plausible someone from original Vistana can see more inventory than I can with MVC.

Yes Vistana should still see more inventory than Abound, likely to be that way in general for many years.

 

[PHWiest]

But... you must ELECT ALL Vistana to enable spending any of it in Abound. So, it is smarter as Vistana... to book via Vistana and not ELECT.? What's a best practice?

 

[Gemini Chica]

But... you must ELECT ALL Vistana to enable spending any of it in Abound. So, it is smarter as Vistana... to book via Vistana and not ELECT.? What's a best practice?

Thats a bit cheeky isn't it?

 

[Eric B]

It also doesn’t seem entirely true or at least not for everyone. I don’t have to elect all my Vistana ownership to Abound to use Abound because I own several VOIs. That does give me additional options, of course. It’s important to understand the different costs and availability of a stay in all the different systems you can use in order to make an informed intelligent decision on how to book it.

 

[Hindsite]

What's a best practice?

There's a very good chance that your view of best practice and mine are different.
Working out what is best for you is best practice.
With ownership that has access to Abound, you can rent club points from another owner and use those to book via Abound, no need to elect any of your ownership to do that.

 

[Gemini Chica]

It also doesn’t seem entirely true or at least not for everyone. I don’t have to elect all my Vistana ownership to Abound to use Abound because I own several VOIs. That does give me additional options, of course. It’s important to understand the different costs and availability of a stay in all the different systems you can use in order to make an informed intelligent decision on how to book it.

How do the two systems compare from a user friendly point of view? Does one system have more restrictions than another?

 

[Gemini Chica]

There's a very good chance that your view of best practice and mine are different.
Working out what is best for you is best practice.
With ownership that has access to Abound, you can rent club points from another owner and use those to book via Abound, no need to elect any of your ownership to do that.

In Vistana system can you rent points from other owners, like in MVC?

 

[LeslieDet]

But... you must ELECT ALL Vistana to enable spending any of it in Abound. So, it is smarter as Vistana... to book via Vistana and not ELECT.? What's a best practice?

You may have to elect your entire VSN VOI in order to receive any Club Points, but that is not universal. Each VOI is treated differently; some allow a portion of the VOI to be elected, others do not.

 

[Hindsite]

In Vistana system can you rent points from other owners, like in MVC?

You cannot rent flex options, home options or star options from other owners. You can rent reservations made with their core ownership, but not reservations made with SOs.

How do the two systems compare from a user friendly point of view? Does one system have more restrictions than another?

They're just different, have different good and difficult parts, different restrictions and limitations. Knowing how to use them well is what makes either one user friendly or not.

 

[LeslieDet]

I understand that Westin can still be booked under the old Vistana website/system as well as the MVC. Do they have different inventory or all the same pot?

The inventory is different depending upon how you are booking. Keep in mind that while some of the older Sheraton or Westin resorts actually had weeks conveyed to the MVC Trust so the Trust owns them as components (for example in Orlando, Kauai and Palm Desert), for the most part the concept of Abound requires existing VSN VOI owners to elect Club Points in lieu of occupancy in their owned VOI, and only then will those weeks become available to book as MVC Club Point inventory. If no VSN owner at Nanea, for example, elects Club Points then the MVC Trust will not have bookable Nanea inventory. The cross brand affiliation is simply an exchange process, just like Aruba or Spain MVC locations. If those owners don't elect Club Points, you can't book those units with Club Points.

So, if you have Westin ownership, book what you own or use your StarOptions to go somewhere else at 8 months within the VSN. Those inventories are separate from what is in the MVC Trust.

 

[LeslieDet]

The developer allocates inventory to the VSN, Abound, II, and non-VSN ownerships as separate buckets based on the estimated demand per the timeshare governing documents.

That is not entirely accurate. You cannot lump everything together like that, as it isn't "the developer" allocating inventory to everything. While the II inventory may be based upon estimates for demand, the MVC Trust inventory isn't based upon estimates for demand.

The Trust owns its Component weeks. When additional weeks (not owned by the Trust) are added to the MVC Trust inventory for usage it is done because of the Exchange Agreement; meaning an enrolled deeded owner, say in Spain or Aruba, elects Club Points in lieu of inventory, and thus the Spain or Aruba week becomes part of the MVC Trust Exchange Inventory for the particular use year. The developer doesn't randomly allocate Aruba or Spain inventory when the developer doesn't own that inventory. Sure, if the developer has inventory for sale at a location, it can do with it what it wants (rent, exchange, deposit to II, use for promotions, opt for BonVoy points), but that is only for developer owned inventory.

Just like the VSN inventory. Each location has its owners with either weeks or HomeOptions (excluding the two different Flex Programs). Using Nanea as an example, it isn't randomly allocated inventory to the Nanea HomeOptions inventory; it is the entire pool of HomeOptions inventory (leaving aside the one building that was sold to the Westin Flex). If none of the Nanea HomeOptions owners elect Club Points, there isn't any Nanea inventory in the MVC Trust pool. If every Nanea HomeOptions owner booked his/her ownership, then there isn't any VSN Nanea inventory bookable with StarOptions at 8 months.

 

[Hindsite]

That is not entirely accurate. You cannot lump everything together like that, as it isn't "the developer" allocating inventory to everything. While the II inventory may be based upon estimates for demand, the MVC Trust inventory isn't based upon estimates for demand.

Agreed about the content of the trust being defined.

Isn't Abound the exchange, and not the Trust, so won't MVC allocate weeks into Abound from enrolled ownership based on some form of demand analysis?

 

[Eric B]

That is not entirely accurate. You cannot lump everything together like that, as it isn't "the developer" allocating inventory to everything. While the II inventory may be based upon estimates for demand, the MVC Trust inventory isn't based upon estimates for demand.

The Trust owns its Component weeks. When additional weeks are added to the MVC Trust it is done because of the Exchange Agreement; meaning an enrolled deeded owner, say in Spain or Aruba, elects Club Points in lieu of inventory, and thus the Spain or Aruba week becomes part of the MVC Trust Exchange Inventory for the particular use year. The developer doesn't randomly allocate Aruba or Spain inventory when the developer doesn't own that inventory. Sure, if the developer has inventory for sale at a location, it can do with it what it wants (rent, exchange, deposit to II, use for promotions, opt for BonVoy points), but that is only for developer owned inventory.

Just like the VSN inventory. Each location has its owners with either weeks or HomeOptions (excluding the two different Flex Programs). Using Nanea as an example, it isn't randomly allocated inventory to the Nanea HomeOptions inventory; it is the entire pool of HomeOptions inventory (leaving aside the one building that was sold to the Westin Flex). If none of the Nanea HomeOptions owners elect Club Points, there isn't any Nanea inventory in the MVC Trust pool. If every Nanea HomeOptions owner booked his/her ownership, then there isn't any VSN Nanea inventory bookable with StarOptions at 8 months.

Roger that; I was merely responding to the idea of a single pot of inventory they all draw from. There are many more details involved including the election by individual owners to deposit a week into Interval rather than availability being solely sourced from bulk developer deposits. Those deposits could include fixed weeks from folks that own those. You make a good point that it's much more complicated than that in the end.

 

[Eric B]

Agreed about the content of the trust being defined.

Isn't Abound the exchange, and not the Trust, so won't MVC allocate weeks into Abound from enrolled ownership based on some form of demand analysis?

We would have to distinguish Westin inventory in the MVC trust from unsold Westin inventory owned and controlled by the developer to be responsive to OP's question. I have neither the time nor the desire to explain all of the options for inventory allocation to that degree and will leave my original response as it was - the availability through the different booking mechanisms is different and depends on decisions made by all the players that control specific unit availability according to the pertinent timeshare documents.

 

[LeslieDet]

Agreed about the content of the trust being defined.

Isn't Abound the exchange, and not the Trust, so won't MVC allocate weeks into Abound from enrolled ownership based on some form of demand analysis?

I'm not sure anyone could actually explain it all, as it is very complicated as far as I understand it.

The name "Abound" replaced the name "Destinations", so now the trademarked exchange program is referred to as "Abound by Marriott Vacations Exchange Program" instead of "Destinations by Marriott Vacations Exchange Program". The Exchange Agreement expectantly contains the following wording:

"Exchange Company has the specific right to implement procedures to facilitate the exchange of the Accommodations that are part of Components (as defined in Schedule “1”), other Affiliate Programs affiliated with the Program or Special Benefits (as defined in Schedule “1”). There may be different methods or procedures by which Exchange Points (as defined in Schedule “1”) are assigned at a particular Component or within a particular Affiliate Program. Exchange Company, subject to the terms of these Exchange Procedures, may further modify these Exchange Procedures in its sole discretion and in a manner it deems for the benefit of the Program Members as a whole."

But as far as I understand everything from reading these documents as well as the Trust documents, no inventory is bookable in the Trust if that inventory is exclusively Exchange Inventory owned/controlled by some person or entity other than MORI unless and until the owner has opted to Exchange the occupancy per the terms of the enrollment agreement.

 

[timsi]

You cannot lump everything together like that, as it isn't "the developer" allocating inventory to everything.

Actually it is the developer that allocates the entire inventory, and that is true for every week of the year. Take, for instance, the Abound inventory at the Vistana resorts for January 2025. In January 2024, when many Abound members would try to book, the availability of Vistana units in Abound would be extremely scarce, as only a small number of Vistana owners have chosen points, having until September-October to make their deposits. The situation reverses toward the end of the year. If Marriott fails to allocate sufficient units in Abound for the beginning of the year, balancing the number of deposits with potential bookings would necessitate a disproportionately large allocation of units for the final months. This is due to the earlier months being sold out as the Vistana owners have already booked them through VSN (network or home resort reservations) so they would have to allocate from the inventory that is still available.

 

[SueDonJ]

That is not entirely accurate. You cannot lump everything together like that, as it isn't "the developer" allocating inventory to everything. While the II inventory may be based upon estimates for demand, the MVC Trust inventory isn't based upon estimates for demand.

The Trust owns its Component weeks. When additional weeks (not owned by the Trust) are added to the MVC Trust inventory for usage it is done because of the Exchange Agreement; meaning an enrolled deeded owner, say in Spain or Aruba, elects Club Points in lieu of inventory, and thus the Spain or Aruba week becomes part of the MVC Trust Exchange Inventory for the particular use year. The developer doesn't randomly allocate Aruba or Spain inventory when the developer doesn't own that inventory. Sure, if the developer has inventory for sale at a location, it can do with it what it wants (rent, exchange, deposit to II, use for promotions, opt for BonVoy points), but that is only for developer owned inventory.

Just like the VSN inventory. Each location has its owners with either weeks or HomeOptions (excluding the two different Flex Programs). Using Nanea as an example, it isn't randomly allocated inventory to the Nanea HomeOptions inventory; it is the entire pool of HomeOptions inventory (leaving aside the one building that was sold to the Westin Flex). If none of the Nanea HomeOptions owners elect Club Points, there isn't any Nanea inventory in the MVC Trust pool. If every Nanea HomeOptions owner booked his/her ownership, then there isn't any VSN Nanea inventory bookable with StarOptions at 8 months.

I'm not sure anyone could actually explain it all, as it is very complicated as far as I understand it.

The name "Abound" replaced the name "Destinations", so now the trademarked exchange program is referred to as "Abound by Marriott Vacations Exchange Program" instead of "Destinations by Marriott Vacations Exchange Program". The Exchange Agreement expectantly contains the following wording:

"Exchange Company has the specific right to implement procedures to facilitate the exchange of the Accommodations that are part of Components (as defined in Schedule “1”), other Affiliate Programs affiliated with the Program or Special Benefits (as defined in Schedule “1”). There may be different methods or procedures by which Exchange Points (as defined in Schedule “1”) are assigned at a particular Component or within a particular Affiliate Program. Exchange Company, subject to the terms of these Exchange Procedures, may further modify these Exchange Procedures in its sole discretion and in a manner it deems for the benefit of the Program Members as a whole."

But as far as I understand everything from reading these documents as well as the Trust documents, no inventory is bookable in the Trust if that inventory is exclusively Exchange Inventory owned/controlled by some person or entity other than MORI unless and until the owner has opted to Exchange the occupancy per the terms of the enrollment agreement.

I think it is very confusing to state that there is ever a means of mingling unconveyed intervals in the Abound Trust. Instead it's more correct to state that there are two separate components which consist of separate inventory pools, the Trust and the Exchange Company. The machinations are more simply explained in the TUG Abound FAQ (which I'm aware needs updating so as to note the Destination Club-->Abound name change and to include the Vistana product, and that update will be done within the next few weeks):

>>Section 1. THE BASICS on page one:

Membership in the MVC Destinations program consists of purchases of DC Trust Points in BI increments, and/or, enrollment of MVCI/Club Weeks which Owners may elect annually to convert to DC Exchange Points. Owners of Trust Points are defined in the governing documents as Trust Members; Owners of enrolled Weeks are defined as Exchange Members. Here on TUG, Exchange Points are often referred to as Legacy Points, and Exchange Members as Enrolled or Legacy Members.<<

>> SECTION 2. USAGE / Inventory Sources ... on page two:

MVCI Weeks and MVCD Points inventory is kept separate according to the terms of each system's governing documents in order to protect Owners/Members ownership and usage rights. Inventory available through the DC Exchange Company is sourced from Marriott-controlled deposits as well as (according to a no-longer-available FAQ that had been posted to the owners' website during the early DC years,) "... other Marriott Vacation Club Owners who enroll their weeks and elect Vacation Club Points, and non-enrolled Owners who trade their usage for Marriott Rewards points or exchange their week through membership in Interval International."

Technically, in compliance with the governing documents, DC Trust Members have direct access to inventory in the DC Trust as well as inventory available through the DC Exchange Company; and, DC Exchange Members have direct access to only the inventory that's available through the DC Exchange Company. Functionally, it appears that Marriott is managing inventory such that a few select high-demand intervals are available only from the Trust at the 13-months Reservation Window, then at the 12-months Reservation Window most intervals are made available through the Exchange Company. Effectively, it appears that inventory is currently being managed by Marriott such that the technical v. functional legal aspects are practically nullified with respect to the overwhelming majority of available intervals.<<

From what I've read on TUG, I think that enrolled Vistana Weeks work the same as Marriott Weeks in the Abound program. I don't know how the various Vistana Points systems work with Abound, specifically whether they're eligible for a similar enrollment that allows them to be elected for Exchange Points, but I intend to learn from TUGgers at least enough so that the FAQ will cover the Vistana-related basics.

 

[LeslieDet]

I think it is very confusing to state that there is ever a means of mingling unconveyed intervals in the Abound Trust. Instead it's more correct to state that there are two separate components which consist of separate inventory pools, the Trust and the Exchange Company.

I agree with you, and I was simply trying to explain that is wasn't that the developer "allocates" the inventory based upon estimated demand as suggested by comment #2.

Perhaps I did not use the exact terminology you preferred, but I was trying to explain in simple terms that there is the Trust Components and then there is the inventory derived from the Exchange, and once exchanged for the use year, it is all there for those with Club Points to book, regardless of whether the property it is a Component of the Trust or an exchange into the Trust. There is no functional difference for those booking with Club Points. While the original source documents were written to allow for differences in the pools, and that is how sales staff gets away with the pitch that the pools of inventory is different so one "must" own Club Points in order to access "all" inventory, to my knowledge, it has never functioned in that manner. Points are points for booking purposes, whether elected or owned.

Re the VSN VOIs, yes they are exchanges and the operative Exchange Agreement was revised to include the process for VSN VOIs; however, note that there are some VSN VOIs that were added as Trust Components when the developer dumped a significant amount of developer owned VOIs into the Trust in 2022 and 2023 and added significant Points for Sale and Points for Use. Each VSN VOI has its predetermined Club Point value. Some of the VSN VOIs require 100% of the VOI to be exchanged for Club Points, where other VOIs can be exchanged incrementally.

I am not familiar with the various sources you have on TUG or the FAQs you referred to, so I was not aware that the OP should have been referred to that site. Now I know. Thanks.

 

[timsi]

I agree with you, and I was simply trying to explain that is wasn't that the developer "allocates" the inventory based upon estimated demand as suggested by comment #2.

Perhaps I did not use the exact terminology you preferred, but I was trying to explain in simple terms that there is the Trust Components and then there is the inventory derived from the Exchange, and once exchanged for the use year, it is all there for those with Club Points to book, regardless of whether the property it is a Component of the Trust or an exchange into the Trust. There is no functional difference for those booking with Club Points. While the original source documents were written to allow for differences in the pools, and that is how sales staff gets away with the pitch that the pools of inventory is different so one "must" own Club Points in order to access "all" inventory, to my knowledge, it has never functioned in that manner. Points are points for booking purposes, whether elected or owned.

Re the VSN VOIs, yes they are exchanges and the operative Exchange Agreement was revised to include the process for VSN VOIs; however, note that there are some VSN VOIs that were added as Trust Components when the developer dumped a significant amount of developer owned VOIs into the Trust in 2022 and 2023 and added significant Points for Sale and Points for Use. Each VSN VOI has its predetermined Club Point value. Some of the VSN VOIs require 100% of the VOI to be exchanged for Club Points, where other VOIs can be exchanged incrementally.

I am not familiar with the various sources you have on TUG or the FAQs you referred to, so I was not aware that the OP should have been referred to that site. Now I know. Thanks.

There seems to be a misunderstanding regarding how inventory is allocated to Abound. While others may be able to explain it in more detail, I'll try my best to clarify.

For example, when a Westin Flex owner opts into Abound, Marriott must first determine which unit type and resort will contribute inventory. This could be Westin Kierland, Westin Kaanapali Beach, or any other property within the trust.

Once Marriott knows which resort and season will be designated for Abound, they have to decide which specific calendar week will be made available. The beauty for Marriott is that they get deposits of equal value, within the season, but the value on the Abound side is determined by the actual calendar week they choose.

Even when the resort, unit type, and calendar week are identified, the inventory doesn't necessarily become available in Abound immediately. For various reasons, Marriott may hold off on making it bookable until later.

Of course, once a certain unit size/resort/calendar week is chosen for Abound, the specific unit is no longer available in Westin Flex for that week, affecting both buckets (and certainly impacting the inventory of the underlying resort as well).

As Eric mentioned, Abound procedures empower Marriott to consider not just confirmed deposits but also forecasts when allocating inventory. This flexibility likely serves to prevent bottlenecks and potentially align with other interests. Do they spread the known deposits equally, or do they prioritize certain weeks for Abound? Therefore, it's inaccurate to say that Marriott doesn't have full control over these buckets as their ongoing decision-making plays a crucial role in how the inventory is allocated.

 

[Gemini Chica]

Ok, wow alot more complicated that I thought. Only barely get my head around MVC thanks for all the in-depth replies.

 

[bobpark56]

FWIW, Pricing with Abound's club points can be significantly different from pricing with Vistana's HomeOptions/StarOptions. December and January weeks at Westin Lagunamar are cases in point. It's significantly more expensive to book those weeks with Abound than to book with Vistana when booking 1BR units.

 

[poco2g]

FWIW, Pricing with Abound's club points can be significantly different from pricing with Vistana's HomeOptions/StarOptions. December and January weeks at Westin Lagunamar are cases in point. It's significantly more expensive to book those weeks with Abound than to book with Vistana when booking 1BR units.

In general what option gives the best opportunity or has more availability to be able book a reservation? Convert to Abound Club Points and book with Marriott or keep StarOptions and book with Vistana? Trying to decide between the two?