Why is Marriott Vacations struggling?

[DanCali]

MCS has a lot in the trust so I have been able to book there for the past couple of years.

I can book MCS in the Trust as well, but it's usually not the view category we want. The whole point of buying a week was to guarantee the GF view we wanted and also avoid paying 4250 points (most gold weeks) for that view using points. Sometimes I can book the week at 13 months and sometimes at 12, depending on what I need. It's sad that I need to reserve what I can get at 13 months out with points, and then try again at 12 months with my ownership week to see if I can get what I own. And even at 13 (or 14+ ) months I can't always get what I want.

The representations of "at least 50% inventory at 12 months" cannot be verified and there is also no transparency on how the trust gets inventory. And even if true, what does it mean? For example, if there are 20 weeks on the gold season and 200 gold owners elect points, does the trust get 10 units for each of the 20 weeks, or can it disproportionately book 4th of July and Thanksgiving weeks? Can it grab all the Saturday/Sunday checkins and leave Thursday/Fridays for weeks owners?

MVC has grossly misrepresented the ability to book 1+ nights using points, especially for the more desired weeks, by implementing a large amount hidden restrictions that are not listed anywhere - link below. There are probably also conflicts of interest when it comes to determining what goes in the trust, MFs, inventory allocation etc. After these MF increases it's now much harder for me to trust that they treat (points or weeks) owners fairly.

MVC is blocking single night reservations... What Restrictions have you found?

The big pitch to buy more points is to get to President or Chairman. You are supposed to be able to reserve 13 months in advance for 1 or more nights. I have found many instances where single night reservations are blocked: BeachPlace Towers : many dates require 2 or up to 4 nights...

tugbbs.com

 

[DanCali]

What's MCS?

Crystal Shores - Marco Island.

 

[dioxide45]

The representations of "at least 50% inventory at 12 months" cannot be verified and there is also no transparency on how the trust gets inventory. And even if true, what does it mean? For example, if there are 20 weeks on the gold season and 200 gold owners elect points, does the trust get 10 units for each of the 20 weeks, or can it disproportionately book 4th of July and Thanksgiving weeks? Can it grab all the Saturday/Sunday checkins and leave Thursday/Fridays for weeks owners?

The golden question that we have all been asking since the inception of DC...

 

[Red elephant]

I can book MCS in the Trust as well, but it's usually not the view category we want. The whole point of buying a week was to guarantee the GF view we wanted and also avoid paying 4250 points (most gold weeks) for that view using points. Sometimes I can book the week at 13 months and sometimes at 12, depending on what I need. It's sad that I need to reserve what I can get at 13 months out with points, and then try again at 12 months with my ownership week to see if I can get what I own. And even at 13 (or 14+ ) months I can't always get what I want.

The representations of "at least 50% inventory at 12 months" cannot be verified and there is also no transparency on how the trust gets inventory. And even if true, what does it mean? For example, if there are 20 weeks on the gold season and 200 gold owners elect points, does the trust get 10 units for each of the 20 weeks, or can it disproportionately book 4th of July and Thanksgiving weeks? Can it grab all the Saturday/Sunday checkins and leave Thursday/Fridays for weeks owners?

MVC has grossly misrepresented the ability to book 1+ nights using points, especially for the more desired weeks, by implementing a large amount hidden restrictions that are not listed anywhere - link below. There are probably also conflicts of interest when it comes to determining what goes in the trust, MFs, inventory allocation etc. After these MF increases it's now much harder for me to trust that they treat (points or weeks) owners fairly.

MVC is blocking single night reservations... What Restrictions have you found?

The big pitch to buy more points is to get to President or Chairman. You are supposed to be able to reserve 13 months in advance for 1 or more nights. I have found many instances where single night reservations are blocked: BeachPlace Towers : many dates require 2 or up to 4 nights...

tugbbs.com

I get what you mean. If true then the 4th July week would never be available for the weeks owner during that gold season . You can book any other week but not that one. Unless you are flexible with the day of checkin.

 

[Red elephant]

You can only book a week at 13-months if you own 2 weeks and are booking them concurrently or consecutively. If you are only booking 1 week the window to book is 12-months not 13.

Yes that’s the point. Using 2 or 3 weeks to book prior to 12 months .

 

[dioxide45]

I think AirBnB competition is changing a lot right now. With the different laws, bad press, and ever increasing prices and fees there too

There are also quite a few people with Airbnbs dropping out right now and either going long term rental or just selling.

 

[jp10558]

I can book MCS in the Trust as well, but it's usually not the view category we want. The whole point of buying a week was to guarantee the GF view we wanted and also avoid paying 4250 points (most gold weeks) for that view using points. Sometimes I can book the week at 13 months and sometimes at 12, depending on what I need. It's sad that I need to reserve what I can get at 13 months out with points, and then try again at 12 months with my ownership week to see if I can get what I own. And even at 13 (or 14+ ) months I can't always get what I want.

Wait, does this mean at the resort you own a specific deeded week at, you cannot guarantee book that unit and room type for the week?

 

[dioxide45]

Wait, does this mean at the resort you own a specific deeded week at, you cannot guarantee book that unit and room type for the week?

In a floating week system it is based on availability...

 

[sponger76]

Wait, does this mean at the resort you own a specific deeded week at, you cannot guarantee book that unit and room type for the week?

I believe they're talking deeds for floating (seasonal) weeks rather than specific deeded weeks.

 

[Red elephant]

I can book MCS in the Trust as well, but it's usually not the view category we want. The whole point of buying a week was to guarantee the GF view we wanted and also avoid paying 4250 points (most gold weeks) for that view using points. Sometimes I can book the week at 13 months and sometimes at 12, depending on what I need. It's sad that I need to reserve what I can get at 13 months out with points, and then try again at 12 months with my ownership week to see if I can get what I own. And even at 13 (or 14+ ) months I can't always get what I want.

The representations of "at least 50% inventory at 12 months" cannot be verified and there is also no transparency on how the trust gets inventory. And even if true, what does it mean? For example, if there are 20 weeks on the gold season and 200 gold owners elect points, does the trust get 10 units for each of the 20 weeks, or can it disproportionately book 4th of July and Thanksgiving weeks? Can it grab all the Saturday/Sunday checkins and leave Thursday/Fridays for weeks owners?

MVC has grossly misrepresented the ability to book 1+ nights using points, especially for the more desired weeks, by implementing a large amount hidden restrictions that are not listed anywhere - link below. There are probably also conflicts of interest when it comes to determining what goes in the trust, MFs, inventory allocation etc. After these MF increases it's now much harder for me to trust that they treat (points or weeks) owners fairly.

MVC is blocking single night reservations... What Restrictions have you found?

The big pitch to buy more points is to get to President or Chairman. You are supposed to be able to reserve 13 months in advance for 1 or more nights. I have found many instances where single night reservations are blocked: BeachPlace Towers : many dates require 2 or up to 4 nights...

tugbbs.com

When I tired to book my gold week at MOW in August it was not available but I was able to book it with abound points using my enrolled Vistana week. I am still waiting for an exchange on interval for Aruba ocean club for 11/24 but I was able to book 9 days using same enrolled Vistana abound points at 13 months. We shall see if the exchange comes thru. Used MGC 1 bedroom. Something is not right but I am not as familiar with Marriott.

 

[dioxide45]

When I tired to book my gold week at MOW in August it was not available but I was able to book it with abound points using my enrolled Vistana week. I am still waiting for an exchange on interval for Aruba ocean club for 11/24 but I was able to book 9 days using same enrolled Vistana abound points at 13 months. We shall see if the exchange comes thru. Used MGC 1 bedroom. Something is not right but I am not as familiar with Marriott.

There is still a good chance that November Aruba exchange will come through. Though, is your requested week also Thanksgiving week?

 

[davidvel]

Wait, does this mean at the resort you own a specific deeded week at, you cannot guarantee book that unit and room type for the week?

As others note, if you own a specific (fixed) week, you'll get that though you may need to "reserve" it. In a floating system you are guaranteed a week in your season and view but not necessarily the exact week that you want.

 

[Red elephant]

There is still a good chance that November Aruba exchange will come through. Though, is your requested week also Thanksgiving week?

No

 

[Hindsite]

MFs, inventory allocation etc. After these MF increases it's now much harder for me to trust that they treat (points or weeks) owners fairly.

Yes, trusting without being able to see or understand the underlying processes or data is difficult and possibly unwise. If people can make bookings and then list them with redweek etc, then I struggle to see that weeks inventory is being withheld by MVC. They may be getting the balance wrong and allowing the long chain weeks bookers to get access to too much prime inventory.
Having got to the point of not blindly trusting, it doesn't seem to make a difference to what needs doing to get reservations so I just carry on and as long as I can what I need overall from the system that will do for me. The continued cost benefit means the effort is worth it. When it isn't or I don't care to be bothered any more, I'll dispose of my holdings one way or another, happy that I've saved a lot of money over the years.

 

[DanCali]

If people can make bookings and then list them with redweek etc, then I struggle to see that weeks inventory is being withheld by MVC.

Except that 7-night booking on Redweek are not always weeks reservations. They could be points reservations too, so it's hard to draw conclusions about inventory availability for weeks.

 

[Hindsite]

Except that 7-night booking on Redweek are not always weeks reservations. They could be points reservations too, so it's hard to draw conclusions about inventory availability for weeks.

Correct, some resorts, like MCS it is more difficult to tell, but others it is easier as they are mainly weeks.

 

[DRH90277]

Correct, some resorts, like MCS it is more difficult to tell, but others it is easier as they are mainly weeks.

I suspect that most week rentals on Redweek are from owned weeks rather than points. My view is there is generally a horrible return per point on most 7 day (week) points reservations rentals because of the inclusion of Friday and Saturday nights - which extract about double the points per night. I do rent point reservations from time to time, but they are usually 5 day, Sunday night to Friday morning reservations.

Even in our use of points for reservations, some of us steer clear of Friday & Saturday nights. As an example, get a 5 day Sunday night to Friday morning reservation at Newport Coast and then look at paying cash for a Friday & Saturday night reservation at a hotel near to or at Disneyland. You'd probably be way ahead, and at the park.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

As others note, if you own a specific (fixed) week, you'll get that though you may need to "reserve" it. In a floating system you are guaranteed a week in your season and view but not necessarily the exact week that you want.

As far as the floating week goes; this is true and less than true for Marriott.

At the very start of the season booking (12 or 13 month), you are guaranteed a week. However thereafter, you are not guaranteed a week.

Before I get all the screams that I am wrong, I am going to spell out the scenario in detail.

First, You pay a maintenance fee for a week. That should be what you pay in order to get a week. You should not have to pay extra for getting that week you already paid for.

At 74 days out, you lose that right to a week. You are not reimbursed for that week, Marriott get the use of that week for any profitable use they may have for it - plus the cost you already paid in. (Renting out for cash, ect.)

But for the period between12 months and 74 days, there may or may not be inventory for you to book. If not, you are SOL - at the price you paid. Marriott, upon request, will try to book you a relevant week via II, (if available, but you have to pay the exchange fees. (I.e. more than you would pay other wise))

Why would this occur? Marriott have the number of weeks owners (and the total number of weeks owned) and allocated exactly that many weeks to the owner's pool. Everybody books their week, right? No problem, right?

But person X booked a week #1 at 12 months. You aren't able to book up front, and want to book week #1 a day later. You are informed that you can only book the least desireable week in the season. Bummer. So you decide to wait awhile to book. At 4 months you decide to book that undesirable week anyways. You check with Marriott and find there are no weeks you can book - period. What happened?

Unbeknownst to you, person X decided to change the reservation to that undesirable week. Week #1, has already passed, with no takers so Marriott rented it out, and since there was a 1-to-1 relationship between the owned weeks, and the amount of weeks allocated, somebody had to lose their week - in the case <you>. (But Marriott would try to book you a week at the resort via II, with <you> paying the exchange fee, and any other resort fees involved.

This isn't just theory, it bit me personally in 2014. I have seen it compained about occasionally in the Marriott threads in the years since.

 

[DRH90277]

As far as the floating week goes; this is true and less than true for Marriott.

At the very start of the season booking (12 or 13 month), you are guaranteed a week. However thereafter, you are not guaranteed a week.

Before I get all the screams that I am wrong, I am going to spell out the scenario in detail.

First, You pay a maintenance fee for a week. That should be what you pay in order to get a week. You should not have to pay extra for getting that week you already paid for.

At 74 days out, you lose that right to a week. You are not reimbursed for that week, Marriott get the use of that week for any profitable use they may have for it - plus the cost you already paid in. (Renting out for cash, ect.)

But for the period between12 months and 74 days, there may or may not be inventory for you to book. If not, you are SOL - at the price you paid. Marriott, upon request, will try to book you a relevant week via II, (if available, but you have to pay the exchange fees. (I.e. more than you would pay other wise))

Why would this occur? Marriott have the number of weeks owners (and the total number of weeks owned) and allocated exactly that many weeks to the owner's pool. Everybody books their week, right? No problem, right?

But person X booked a week #1 at 12 months. You aren't able to book up front, and want to book week #1 a day later. You are informed that you can only book the least desireable week in the season. Bummer. So you decide to wait awhile to book. At 4 months you decide to book that undesirable week anyways. You check with Marriott and find there are no weeks you can book - period. What happened?

Unbeknownst to you, person X decided to change the reservation to that undesirable week. Week #1, has already passed, with no takers so Marriott rented it out, and since there was a 1-to-1 relationship between the owned weeks, and the amount of weeks allocated, somebody had to lose their week - in the case <you>. (But Marriott would try to book you a week at the resort via II, with <you> paying the exchange fee, and any other resort fees involved.

This isn't just theory, it bit me personally in 2014. I have seen it compained about occasionally in the Marriott threads in the years since.

Very interesting and sorry you had to experience this. So, what steps would one take to eliminate this exposure. Is it as easy as just booking your week reservation at the earliest possible date or 12 months out?

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

Very interesting and sorry you had to experience this. So, what steps would one take to eliminate this exposure. Is it as easy as just booking your week reservation at the earliest possible date or 12 months out?

That is correct. After the experience, I had the opportunity to sell back the timeshare weeks to Marriott, which I promptly did so. I then purchsed a more owner-friendly timeshare week set.

 

[Red elephant]

That is correct. After the experience, I had the opportunity to sell back the timeshare weeks to Marriott, which I promptly did so. I then purchsed a more owner-friendly timeshare week set.

Which is the more owner friendly timeshare week set?

 

[RunCat]

I know of only a handful of people that walked into a timeshare presentation with the plan to buy something. 99% are there for the free gift but they still sell to about 10% of the people. Certain products probably have a higher rate of people going in with the plan to buy. The problem is that timeshares don't sell themselves.

Exactly. When I was selling in Avon, I was told that no one ever wants to buy; everyone is there for the gift. It's our job to figure out a reason to get them to buy anyway.

 

[kozykritter]

Exactly. When I was selling in Avon, I was told that no one ever wants to buy; everyone is there for the gift. It's our job to figure out a reason to get them to buy anyway.

What I put in my post was what they told me during training back in 2015 when I sold at Avon. Gretchen must have changed her tune since then (or left )

 

[WBP]

Yeah, it was former SPG loyalists who coined the term "Bonvoyed" as a pejorative. Which is reasonable, because the old SPG program was light years better than the current Bonvoy hotel program.

Many Vistana owners will have been SPG loyalists who had recent experience with Marriott buying their program and dismantling the value. That almost certainly makes it harder for MVC to sell them.

Ironically, Marriott International's Senior Vice President, Loyalty, is David Flueck, the ARCHITECT of Starwood's award-winning SPG, brand loyalty program.

I suspect that Mr. Flueck was given marching orders from M.I.'s Leadership, to dismantle the former Marriott Rewards program, and to create a program that was less expensive to Franchisees of Marriott hotels. Those Franchisee's are the same people who demanded a less labor/staff-intensive breakfast at Residence Inn, and ended up with garbage, as is the case of Marriott Bonvoy.

 

[rickandcindy23]

How many former timeshare salespeople do we have here? I am surprised that anyone would admit it. Not that Marriott is as bad as most, but still...