WPORV MF increase for 2024 (8.8%!) [+ more 2024 MF discussions]

[DavidnRobin]

Looks like we need a new 2024 MF thread…
FIRST!!!
(this came much sooner than normal)
Weird, there is no due date listed.

2024 EOY MF: $1,844.47
(8.8% increase!)
2023 EOY MF: $1,695.95

The MF death spiral continues.


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[heitmullerj02]

My Vistana week is up $176 from last bill. Glad I paid most of it in advance. Fee increase $159.33, taxes $26.67

 

[DeeCee]

Where can I find Surfwatch fees?

 

[lakside]

Where do you find the 2024 WKORV MF?

 

[dss]

WPORV is not sustainable at these MF's. When MF's exceed potential weekly rental rates, there's a huge problem.

 

[SueDonJ]

Where can I find Surfwatch fees?

SurfWatch doesn't release proposed budgets, and the MF's package including the Annual Budget should come late November/early December. Watch this thread in the TUG Marriott forum: Marriott 2024 Maintenance Fees.

 

[DeeCee]

Will do. You guys are the best! Thank you.

Dee

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Looks like we need a new 2024 MF thread…
FIRST!!!
(this came much sooner than normal)
Weird, there is no due date listed.

2024 EOY MF: $1,844.47
(8.8% increase!)
2023 EOY MF: $1,695.95

The MF death spiral continues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yikes! If you add in club fees of approx $200 x 2 years (because EOY). That's $4088/week or $584/night plus HI TOT tax = Wow! At least you can lock it off and get two weeks for $2044/week AFAIK)

They are almost forcing owners to lockoff and rent out half to help pay for MF.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Where do you find the 2024 WKORV MF?

Not posted yet. WPORV came really early.
WKV has also not yet been posted .


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[bnoble]

For reference, the cheapest refundable week I can find on Expedia for a studio is Week 50, which comes in at just a bit over $3,500. The 2BR that week is just a shade under $7,000. Prices only go up from there.

If an owner is using their week to actually take vacations, they are saving a fair bit over what it would cost to rent it from Marriott. It might still be more than the owner wants to pay, but that's a different question.

 

[echino]

For reference, the cheapest refundable week I can find on Expedia for a studio is Week 50, which comes in at just a bit over $3,500. The 2BR that week is just a shade under $7,000. Prices only go up from there.

If an owner is using their week to actually take vacations, they are saving a fair bit over what it would cost to rent it from Marriott. It might still be more than the owner wants to pay, but that's a different question.

If I am comparing maintenance fees vs rentals, I would not look at rentals from Marriott. I would look at rentals from owners. How much is to rent from an owner?

 

[cubigbird]

Looks like we need a new 2024 MF thread…
FIRST!!!
(this came much sooner than normal)
Weird, there is no due date listed.

2024 EOY MF: $1,844.47
(8.8% increase!)
2023 EOY MF: $1,695.95

The MF death spiral continues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Timeshare companies are heading towards fee increasing their way to the whole house of cards collapsing. These increases well in excess of (higher) inflation is not sustainable long term. It's only a matter of time.

 

[bnoble]

If I am comparing maintenance fees vs rentals, I would not look at rentals from Marriott. I would look at rentals from owners. How much is to rent from an owner?

I would assume that in steady state, a typical owner will not have to rent at this particular resort at a loss. However, that may happen from time to time during periods of significantly lower travel demand across the board. That's always a risk of owning--that you miss out on fire-sale deals when supply exceeds demand--but at least in my adult life so far, those periods tend to be the exception, not the rule.

I don't particularly need to save a ton of money vs. renting from an owner to get value out of owning. Renting is a PITA, and experiencing that for several years was what got me involved in buying instead. I have a ceiling on costs, those costs are acceptable, and it doesn't take much time to deal with. YMMV on this one, of course.

 

[Red elephant]

Yikes! If you add in club fees of approx $200 x 2 years (because EOY). That's $4088/week or $584/night plus HI TOT tax = Wow! At least you can lock it off and get two weeks for $2044/week AFAIK)

They are almost forcing owners to lockoff and rent out half to help pay for MF.

Wouldn’t that be $922 per year? For $1844 EOY?

 

[VacationForever]

Wouldn’t that be $922 per year? For $1844 EOY?

Vistana and Marriott EOY MFs are paid every year. $1844 payable per year, making it 2x$1844 per use.

 

[VacationForever]

Since proposed budget has always been the same as actual billed, the MF, including reserves and property tax, SVR Lakes 2BR LO is up 11.53% over 2023.

SVR Lakes 2BR L/O (High Season)
2024 Operating Assessment $1,051.66; Increase of $84.7 or 8.76%
2024 Replacement Reserves $317.37; Increase of $43.83 or16.02%
2024 Estimated Real Estate Tax $157.50; Increase of $29.22 or 22.78%
2024 Total: $1,526.53; Increase of $157.75 or +11.53%

2023 was $1368.78
2024 is $1526.53, increase of $157.75 or 11.53%.

Numbers corrected above as I had initially missed the section of Revenue to offset Operating Fee.

 

[dioxide45]

Since proposed budget has always been the same as actual billed, the MF, including reserves and property tax, SVR Lakes 2BR LO is up 19.56% over 2023.

2023 was $1368.78
2024 is $1636.52, increase of $267.74 or 19.56%.

I find this strange as I noticed something similar with our SVV weeks. Why doesn't SVV and SVR have to report fully funded reserves? I am also pretty sure that I didn't vote on waiving fully funded reserves for our two SVV weeks in Bella and Key West. Also, at Grande Vista and Harbour Lake, our Annual Meeting and Budget meeting are two days in a row, with SVV, the annual meeting was September 21st and the budget meeting is October 30th.

So here is the breakdown of our Bella dedicated 2BR Prime week;

Fee................2023.........2024........%..
Operating Fee.....1040.12......1184.09....13.8%
Reserve Fee........273.45.......371.77....40.0%
Taxes..............123.00.......152.52....24.0%
Total............$1436.57.....$1708.38....18.9%

 

[dioxide45]

@DeniseM Can this thread be renamed to the offical MF thread for 2024, or can we get one created and stickied?

 

[VacationForever]

I find this strange as I noticed something similar with our SVV weeks. Why doesn't SVV and SVR have to report fully funded reserves? I am also pretty sure that I didn't vote on waiving fully funded reserves for our two SVV weeks in Bella and Key West. Also, at Grande Vista and Harbour Lake, our Annual Meeting and Budget meeting are two days in a row, with SVV, the annual meeting was September 21st and the budget meeting is October 30th.

So here is the breakdown of our Bella dedicated 2BR Prime week;

Fee................2023.........2024........%..
Operating Fee.....1040.12......1184.09....13.8%
Reserve Fee........273.45.......371.77....40.0%
Taxes..............123.00.......152.52....24.0%
Total............$1436.57.....$1909.61....18.9%

Yeah, SVR has never reported on having fully funded reserves, or not. I do like how you have broken down to compare the line item increases year-to-year. I will do so in the "official" thread.

 

[cubigbird]

Looking at Vistana and MVC MF increases compared to what’s being reported in the Hilton forum, increases are astronomically higher than Hilton. Can’t wait to see what delinquencies spike to in the coming year. MVC can’t be raising fees 15-20% and expect owners to stick with it. Hilton seems to be more in line….

 

[dioxide45]

Yeah, SVR has never reported on having fully funded reserves, or not. I do like how you have broken down to compare the line item increases year-to-year. I will do so in the "official" thread.

I just took a copy of last year's bill and then did the math in a spreadsheet. For the formatting of the text, I changed the font to Courier New.

 

[dioxide45]

Looking at Vistana and MVC MF increases compared to what’s being reported in the Hilton forum, increases are astronomically higher than Hilton. Can’t wait to see what delinquencies spike to in the coming year. MVC can’t be raising fees 15-20% and expect owners to stick with it. Hilton seems to be more in line….

Yeah, HGVC SeaWorld is only up about 9% and only about $125 where SVV Bella looks like it could be up nearly $300 BUCKS! That increase is almost what one would expect of a special assessment.

Seaworld 2024.
$1559.68 (increase of $126.40 or 8.82% over 2023)

 

[VacationForever]

I just took a copy of last year's bill and then did the math in a spreadsheet. For the formatting of the text, I changed the font to Courier New.

I know. I did the breakdown in the 2023 thread but I did not do a line by line comparison. Since the increase is so huge this time around, I will do comparison.

 

[DeniseM]

You can find the official thread HERE.

 

[sponger76]

Looking at Vistana and MVC MF increases compared to what’s being reported in the Hilton forum, increases are astronomically higher than Hilton. Can’t wait to see what delinquencies spike to in the coming year. MVC can’t be raising fees 15-20% and expect owners to stick with it. Hilton seems to be more in line….

A one-time increase of 10% - 15% will already drive some people out, though a fair amount of others will still stick it out. But if it happens multiple times, even just 2 years in a row, it may well become more like a stampede for the exits. I really hope that doesn't happen.