Grande Vista 2024 fee proposed to increase over $1000! What is going on?

[needvaca]

I just got an email from the MGV Board with an attached budget showing that they plan to increase the maintenance fee from $1681 to $2,818 in 2024 (so 67%) in order to build up the reserve. This is egregious. Can they do this? Is this a 1 time assessment or new ongoing fee?

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Reserves need to be very healthy and this is likely attributable to the new Florida Condominium law which is due to take effect in December of 2024.

This new law is a direct result of the building which collapsed in Surfside in 2021.




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[1Kflyerguy]

Ouch, that hurts.

 

[gggllm]

wow, is this a one time thing?

 

[The Colorado Kid]

So likely all Florida Marriotts and other timeshares?

 

[TUGBrian]

wow, that is a monster increase for sure, something that large would need a vote if that were an actual increase in annual maintenance fees vs a single year special assessment?

 

[bnoble]

It looks like the vast majority of the increases are in the Reserves category. As @TheTimeTraveler mentions, this is almost certainly due to Florida Senate Bill 154, which requires all reserves to be "fully funded."

IIRC, it is possible for timeshare owners to vote to waive this requirement and go back to a "prudent reserve" standard, but it requires an association-wide vote. I recall reading that at least some Marriotts in Florida have successfully completed such a vote, but that's dim memory.

So, it is possible that this won't be the final story, but it will depend on whether the Board schedules such a vote, and if so, whether it passes.

 

[dioxide45]

This probably also includes fully funded reserves. Wait till the actual budget and bill comes out. It will still hurt but it won’t be this high. We see these threads every year when the proposed budget comes out.

 

[dioxide45]

So, it is possible that this won't be the final story, but it will depend on whether the Board schedules such a vote, and if so, whether it passes.

The vote to waive fully funding reserves is on the ballot every year. Won’t know the outcome till the annual meetings

 

[Retired2025 aka AlmostRetired]

This might explain the increase in the MF for destination points. Assuming it is, I am surprised there is not a foot note explaining the increase on the one time assessments in Florida. It wouldn't change the increase but it would alleviate a little stress on what might happen in future years with DP MF's. It would also allow for the continued lying about DP MF not going up much. The proposed increase at the Monarch is 8.5% going over the 2000 (2036) mark for a 2 bedroom. For some reason, I looked at 2000 line as a big deal.

 

[aka Julie]

Do all properties send out proposed budgets in advance? I don’t ever remember receiving any advance notice prior to the invoice in November or December. I own at Barony and Shadowridge

 

[Bwb7552]

Seems I recall some states require that reserves must be 100% funded based upon an annual "audit" of the reserve balances in relationship to the anticipated useful life of the real and personal property......maybe California?

 

[Topher]

Hawaii has had a similar law for over 3 decades. And it's not just a "1-year thing" there.

 

[dioxide45]

Do all properties send out proposed budgets in advance? I don’t ever remember receiving any advance notice prior to the invoice in November or December. I own at Barony and Shadowridge

I beleive I have only seen them in Florida. Perhaps also SC.

 

[dioxide45]

The 23% increase in Operating Fee is a big concern. Reserve Fee can change based on the waiving of fully funded reserves. But I suspect Operating Fee is more likely to stick close to the proposed budget.

 

[Superchief]

The 23% increase in Operating Fee is a big concern. Reserve Fee can change based on the waiving of fully funded reserves. But I suspect Operating Fee is more likely to stick close to the proposed budget.

A 23% increase is totally unreasonable. Owners should closely review the elements that are driving the increase and provide feedback to the GM and board members. I became concerned when more GM's were coming from the hotel side of the business because they just want to build their empires at the resort without regard to the owners who are paying for it. This mentality will cause many long term owners to dispose of their properties because they can't afford the maintenance fees. Most MF's have increased at a slightly higher than inflation rate over the years, but any increase over 10% is not acceptable. Look for places to cut!

 

[jmhpsu93]

The 23% increase in Operating Fee is a big concern. Reserve Fee can change based on the waiving of fully funded reserves. But I suspect Operating Fee is more likely to stick close to the proposed budget.

Wages & Benefits increased at Cypress Harbour by 35% (!!!!), but they somehow managed to keep the increase (with the fully-funded-waiver) around 11% YOY, which I can live with. I don't know what the hell is going on at the neighboring properties (GV and HL).

Are you going to any of the meetings in person like you have sometimes in the past?

 

[bnoble]

It's not that surprising. The Orlando labor market for service workers has been tough more or less continuously since the pandemic. Disney is only now starting to hit full staffing, and there are still roles they are paying real bonuses to hire into.

 

[dioxide45]

Wages & Benefits increased at Cypress Harbour by 35% (!!!!), but they somehow managed to keep the increase (with the fully-funded-waiver) around 11% YOY, which I can live with. I don't know what the hell is going on at the neighboring properties (GV and HL).

Are you going to any of the meetings in person like you have sometimes in the past?

Can you post a copy of the proposed (or final) budget for Cypress Harbour?

I won't be able to make it to the BOD meeting this year.

 

[dioxide45]

A lot will depend on where they land with waiving of fully funded reserves (if they get a Yes vote on waiving). Looking at the proxy, I see this noted

If you voted “Yes”, vote for one of the Board proposed options below: (The option with the most votes will be the one implemented by the Association.)

A majority “No” Vote will result in the Reserve Maintenance Fee contribution for 2024 being $1,233.78 per unit week. This represents the Fully Funded annual contribution level for 2024. In 2023, your Reserve Maintenance Fee contribution was $391.55 per unit week. Based on extensive and thorough ongoing review, your Board of Directors recommends a vote “YES” for waiver or reduction of the statutory reserve annual contribution for 2024.

Between $380 - $885 Reserve Maintenance Fee contribution per Unit Week
(Recommended by your Board of Directors)
Between $886 - $990 Reserve Maintenance Fee contribution per Unit Week

It seems that last year, the reserve fee was at the lower end of what was recommended. (I don't recall what the proxy indicated last year). If the fee is say $400 for 2024, it would work out to about 15.5% increase in 2024.

 

[titanium2019]

Net Operating Fee already increased 15% in last year‘s budget. Now 23% more. Both are not in line with average wage increases in the US. The newest jobs report (Labor Department, 10/6/2023) from September indicates a 4.2% average hourly rate increase. Who is benefiting from this disproportionate increase?

 

[DanCali]

A majority “No” Vote will result in the Reserve Maintenance Fee contribution for 2024 being $1,233.78 ($972.81) per unit week. This represents the Fully Funded annual contribution level for 2024. In 2023, your Reserve Maintenance Fee contribution was $391.55 ($511.16) per unit week. Based on extensive and thorough ongoing review, your Board of Directors recommends a vote “YES” for waiver or reduction of the statutory reserve annual contribution for 2024.

Between $380 - $885 ($525-$750) Reserve Maintenance Fee contribution per Unit Week
(Recommended by your Board of Directors)
Between $886 - $990 ($751-$900) Reserve Maintenance Fee contribution per Unit Week

It seems that last year, the reserve fee was at the lower end of what was recommended. (I don't recall what the proxy indicated last year). If the fee is say $400 for 2024, it would work out to about 15.5% increase in 2024.

Added above in Blue how the numbers compare to our MCS for reference. Needless to say, I voted "YES".

 

[rickandcindy23]

The increases are outrageous. I am worried about our weeks. I have been bracing myself for high increases. We will see what happens across the country.

 

[bnoble]

The newest jobs report (Labor Department, 10/6/2023) from September indicates a 4.2% average hourly rate increase.

You know what they say about averages. It is possible to drown in a river whose average depth is six inches.

Walt Disney World increased their base starting pay for all cast members in Florida from a minimum of $15/hr to $17/hr in '23, an increase of 13.3%. Houskeeping (a union position at Disney) went from $17 to $20, an increase of 17.6%. That's before considering Disney was paying signing bonuses of $1,000 this past August for new Housekeepers who stay on the job for 90 days. That's equivalent to an extra 50 hours' starting-rate pay over the course of 13 weeks---someone working full time is getting an extra 9.6% in pay for their first three months, on top of the 13.3% increase in base rate, or a total of almost 29% over what Disney was paying a Housekeeper in 2022.

That's the labor market that Grand Vista is competing in for service employees. If I am a Housekeeper for Marriott, and I'm being paid less than about $22/hr, I'm moving to Disney, and I'm doing it today. It is no surprise at all that staffing costs have gone up as much as they have.

 

[Hindsite]

of all the things to drive increasing maintenance fees, raising wages of the lower levels of the workforce are one thing that I totally agree with. We have such an excellent experience thanks to the legions of working people who do things we often never see or hear about, I'm glad to pay them decent wages.
Unfortunately their raises are usually eaten up with increased costs of living, but that is an issue I can't resolve.