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[ 2023 ] Open Letter to Shell Vacations Club Owners West Association

kpeiper

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
106
Reaction score
28
Location
Sacramento CA
As there is no way to contact the board directly, I mailed the following letter to Wyndham to forward to the board and decided to share here as well. Very frustrating to send this type of question to the board through the Wyndham "filters" and receive the generic corporate response in return. Does our board get feedback from owners? Is there opportunity for a town hall type meeting? We love our membership but we don't appreciate the lack of communication, absence of two-way communication with owners and the decisions made to please TNL shareholders at expense of owner satisfaction.

Letter:
I am writing to the board members to express my concern that decisions are made unilaterally by our management company, Wyndham, with a negative impact to the owners of Shell Owners Association West without effective direction from our association board to preserve the value and satisfaction of our owners. Our Shell Owners Association Board must serve with the interest of the owners when conducting business with our management company. Decision made by the board, or passively allowed by the board, that erode that our benefit of ownership are contrary to your responsibilities as board members.

I am aware of the symbiotic and balanced relationship that the association must maintain with the management company for mutual benefit. I understand both entities must be able to thrive. However, with Wyndham employee representatives serving on the board, many decisions are heavily in Wyndham’s favor. The board must be stronger at asking Wyndham to respect the balance of the relationship and advocate to preserve the ownership satisfaction. There is corporate benefit to care for the welfare of the members.

I have a few examples I’d like to share.

First and foremost, I have found it incredibly dissatisfying that Wyndham took the earliest opportunity possible to force our owners from Interval International, provider of high quality resorts and great customer service, to RCI with many sub-par, and aging properties. As a grandfathered Elite member, we were provided “RCI Platinum” memberships. Most of the benefits are a farce. I’ve never experiences the unit size upgrade and many of the premium properties are come with huge exchange fees – not the base fee of $99. The membership is not the same value that was provided with Interval International. Shouldn’t the membership have some voice in this matter? Where was the board in this decision? I understand that the exchange company selection ultimately belongs to Wyndham. The board has every right to question this decision and pressure Wyndham to do what’s right for the owner. They didn’t – Wyndham profits are more important that owner satisfaction. I asked if I could purchase an Interval International Membership directly and Interval International said that they could not work with me directly as Shell Vacations Club ended exchange agreements with them. Board members, why are you allowing our club manager to limit our choices? Why are you allowing them to force us to exchange only with RCI (owned by Wyndham). Can you not represent the owners? More exchange options make for a stronger club with higher satisfaction. That is why you represent owners as board members. Please do your job. Advocate for more exchange options and don’t lock us in. Wyndham has found a way to offer both Interval International and RCI to Worldmark Owners. Why can’t we do the same? Perhaps the Worldmark Board was more protective of owner value?

Secondly, I have been presented with the threat that I need to convert to Wyndham Club Prefer West before all the inventory dries up, before I am the only one paying maintenance fees to support SVC, before the neglected website stops working. The salespeople love to promote the death of SVC for the benefit of Club Wyndham sales. Actually, I support the idea and think there is simplicity to one club/one system. I believe I have a good understanding of the structure behind the conversion. For the most part, the VIP benefits and Elite benefits align well enough with one exception. As a Shell Vacations Club Grandfathered Elite, I have the RCI platinum with some exchanges at $99, even if it isn’t my preferred exchange provider. If I convert, I get regular RCI with a $279 exchange fee. That is crazy. My annual fees don’t see a reduction, but I would almost triple my RCI exchange fee. I would not even have the opportunity to pay for the higher level of RCI. Again, I would also not be able to pursue a membership with Interval International. (With significantly lower exchange fees and higher quality accommodations).

I have grown accustomed to the slow erosion of services and programs provided since Wyndham’s acquisition and I have learned to ignore the death toll that the salespeople predict for the unfortunate SVC owners. I realized long ago that this is not a brand that Wyndham will develop further – they will just work to generate revenue in the assimilation process. I resign to the fact that we will continue to be Wyndhamized as much as possible.

I just ask that you, the board, remember your duty to the owners to MANAGE the company that we have contracted with to run our properties. YOU have an influence over the benefits that the management company offers. If nothing else, we deserve choices when exchanging. None of us ever gave up our rights to exchange with II or RCI. What gives Wyndham that right to block our ability to trade and why is our board not representing the owners?

As the industry consolidates and the supply chains become consolidated and vertical, it seems that there may need to be more consumer protections added to real estate code to protect the owners. It may be a good time to legislate a higher burden of responsibility to association boards to require management companies to make decisions in the best interests of owners. Perhaps all associations should be required to seek a open market request for proposal for timeshare association management contracts on a periodic basis?
 
Great letter in my opinion. I share in your frustration of trying to get messages to Boards that are supposed to be representing owners. We have a very small Shell West package and my husband has been saying for years now we need to exit the program as fees have gone up drastically for the small amount of points we have and I agree, you have to be very careful with RCI - excessive fees on exchanges. Seems like a conflict of interest for the big timeshare giants to also own the exchange companies. Marriott Vacation Club now owns Interval and we don't get the good exchanges we used to get.
 
We own Wyndham and Shell. Wyndham calls all of the Shell properties, "Club Wyndham Paniolo Greens," "Club Wyndham Kona Coast," "Club Wyndham Vino Bello." It kind of bugs me. Wyndham has taken over Shell, in a nutshell. The website for Shell SUCKS big time. When I add guest names I have to call, and then the resorts don't get the name changes. Wyndham is stopping those on that end and Peacock Suites has commented that everything has changed with Wyndham's takeover.

Look for new changes to Shell, including higher fees and restrictions on guests, like Wyndham has.

I am deeding back my Shell West Club points this next year.
 
As there is no way to contact the board directly, I mailed the following letter to Wyndham to forward to the board and decided to share here as well. Very frustrating to send this type of question to the board through the Wyndham "filters" and receive the generic corporate response in return. Does our board get feedback from owners? Is there opportunity for a town hall type meeting? We love our membership but we don't appreciate the lack of communication, absence of two-way communication with owners and the decisions made to please TNL shareholders at expense of owner satisfaction.

Letter:
I am writing to the board members to express my concern that decisions are made unilaterally by our management company, Wyndham, with a negative impact to the owners of Shell Owners Association West without effective direction from our association board to preserve the value and satisfaction of our owners. Our Shell Owners Association Board must serve with the interest of the owners when conducting business with our management company. Decision made by the board, or passively allowed by the board, that erode that our benefit of ownership are contrary to your responsibilities as board members.

I am aware of the symbiotic and balanced relationship that the association must maintain with the management company for mutual benefit. I understand both entities must be able to thrive. However, with Wyndham employee representatives serving on the board, many decisions are heavily in Wyndham’s favor. The board must be stronger at asking Wyndham to respect the balance of the relationship and advocate to preserve the ownership satisfaction. There is corporate benefit to care for the welfare of the members.

I have a few examples I’d like to share.

First and foremost, I have found it incredibly dissatisfying that Wyndham took the earliest opportunity possible to force our owners from Interval International, provider of high quality resorts and great customer service, to RCI with many sub-par, and aging properties. As a grandfathered Elite member, we were provided “RCI Platinum” memberships. Most of the benefits are a farce. I’ve never experiences the unit size upgrade and many of the premium properties are come with huge exchange fees – not the base fee of $99. The membership is not the same value that was provided with Interval International. Shouldn’t the membership have some voice in this matter? Where was the board in this decision? I understand that the exchange company selection ultimately belongs to Wyndham. The board has every right to question this decision and pressure Wyndham to do what’s right for the owner. They didn’t – Wyndham profits are more important that owner satisfaction. I asked if I could purchase an Interval International Membership directly and Interval International said that they could not work with me directly as Shell Vacations Club ended exchange agreements with them. Board members, why are you allowing our club manager to limit our choices? Why are you allowing them to force us to exchange only with RCI (owned by Wyndham). Can you not represent the owners? More exchange options make for a stronger club with higher satisfaction. That is why you represent owners as board members. Please do your job. Advocate for more exchange options and don’t lock us in. Wyndham has found a way to offer both Interval International and RCI to Worldmark Owners. Why can’t we do the same? Perhaps the Worldmark Board was more protective of owner value?

Secondly, I have been presented with the threat that I need to convert to Wyndham Club Prefer West before all the inventory dries up, before I am the only one paying maintenance fees to support SVC, before the neglected website stops working. The salespeople love to promote the death of SVC for the benefit of Club Wyndham sales. Actually, I support the idea and think there is simplicity to one club/one system. I believe I have a good understanding of the structure behind the conversion. For the most part, the VIP benefits and Elite benefits align well enough with one exception. As a Shell Vacations Club Grandfathered Elite, I have the RCI platinum with some exchanges at $99, even if it isn’t my preferred exchange provider. If I convert, I get regular RCI with a $279 exchange fee. That is crazy. My annual fees don’t see a reduction, but I would almost triple my RCI exchange fee. I would not even have the opportunity to pay for the higher level of RCI. Again, I would also not be able to pursue a membership with Interval International. (With significantly lower exchange fees and higher quality accommodations).

I have grown accustomed to the slow erosion of services and programs provided since Wyndham’s acquisition and I have learned to ignore the death toll that the salespeople predict for the unfortunate SVC owners. I realized long ago that this is not a brand that Wyndham will develop further – they will just work to generate revenue in the assimilation process. I resign to the fact that we will continue to be Wyndhamized as much as possible.

I just ask that you, the board, remember your duty to the owners to MANAGE the company that we have contracted with to run our properties. YOU have an influence over the benefits that the management company offers. If nothing else, we deserve choices when exchanging. None of us ever gave up our rights to exchange with II or RCI. What gives Wyndham that right to block our ability to trade and why is our board not representing the owners?

As the industry consolidates and the supply chains become consolidated and vertical, it seems that there may need to be more consumer protections added to real estate code to protect the owners. It may be a good time to legislate a higher burden of responsibility to association boards to require management companies to make decisions in the best interests of owners. Perhaps all associations should be required to seek a open market request for proposal for timeshare association management contracts on a periodic basis?
Just suck it up, Shell used to be with RCI until the last years anyway, everyone has things they don't like. Go to your AGM to talk to them directly.
 
Just suck it up, Shell used to be with RCI until the last years anyway, everyone has things they don't like. Go to your AGM to talk to them directly.
TUG is a haven for those of us who are not happy with the way our timeshares are being managed. We like our haven. Telling people to suck it up is dismissive of others' opinions.

My biggest complaint with the move to RCI is the cost of booking a week through RCI. The number of points required is very high. I have 17,000 Shell points in RCI that I have extended as many times as I can. I was sure I could get something with RCI, but I have just too many avenues to use.

Deeding back Shell will be a great relief to Rick's and my pocketbook. Wyndham should have improved the website, but instead it gets worse all of the time. It's not nearly as functional as it once was. I also am not getting discounts on last-minute stays, like I used to get. Wyndham owners are getting that discount. I know that is true.
 
Maybe a more pleasant version of "suck it up" is: Mini-systems can (and do) change affiliations. Because I've relinquished my usage rights to the underlying converted week in exchange for points, I have different options than I would if I only owned the underlying week---those options might be better or worse. With a trust product like Shell, I am not even sure you can revert to an underlying week. So, in exchange for the extra options of Shell points system, I would not have the ability to choose my third-party exchange.

This happens all the time. For example, DVC has gone back and forth three or four times now between RCI and II. And this is another reason why some of us constantly advise new owners not to buy with exchange as the primary use: too many things are outside your control.
 
TUG is a haven for those of us who are not happy with the way our timeshares are being managed. We like our haven. Telling people to suck it up is dismissive of others' opinions.

My biggest complaint with the move to RCI is the cost of booking a week through RCI. The number of points required is very high. I have 17,000 Shell points in RCI that I have extended as many times as I can. I was sure I could get something with RCI, but I have just too many avenues to use.

Deeding back Shell will be a great relief to Rick's and my pocketbook. Wyndham should have improved the website, but instead it gets worse all of the time. It's not nearly as functional as it once was. I also am not getting discounts on last-minute stays, like I used to get. Wyndham owners are getting that discount. I know that is true.
Tldr trading companies at Shell change regularly that's why i said stuck it up, it's no big deal.
Another poster said the same happens at DVC. You should expect it.
 
Maybe a more pleasant version of "suck it up" is: Mini-systems can (and do) change affiliations. Because I've relinquished my usage rights to the underlying converted week in exchange for points, I have different options than I would if I only owned the underlying week---those options might be better or worse. With a trust product like Shell, I am not even sure you can revert to an underlying week. So, in exchange for the extra options of Shell points system, I would not have the ability to choose my third-party exchange.

This happens all the time. For example, DVC has gone back and forth three or four times now between RCI and II. And this is another reason why some of us constantly advise new owners not to buy with exchange as the primary use: too many things are outside your control.
Exactly.
 

I understand that they have historically changed from one exchange company to the other historically. One would expect the management company to choose the exchange company that provides the best value to the owners. When there is a management company/exchange company ownership, it there a conflict of interest and will affiliation be made based on best value. Maybe not. As exchange companies are owned by management companies, should open exchange be required for owners. Why am I required to use RCI with more expensive fees and an inferior quality? Should the association board have an obligation to better evaluate in influence decisions that impact owner satisfaction and value or do we accept them as puppets of the “developer/manager”?


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Despite mailing this letter, sending to Wyndham via email and posting to this forum, no response from anyone. Our board evidently has no responsibility to respond to owners. Sad.


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Wyndham and RCI, same parent company. That is why we no longer have other options.
 
TUG is a haven for those of us who are not happy with the way our timeshares are being managed. We like our haven. Telling people to suck it up is dismissive of others' opinions.

My biggest complaint with the move to RCI is the cost of booking a week through RCI. The number of points required is very high. I have 17,000 Shell points in RCI that I have extended as many times as I can. I was sure I could get something with RCI, but I have just too many avenues to use.

Deeding back Shell will be a great relief to Rick's and my pocketbook. Wyndham should have improved the website, but instead it gets worse all of the time. It's not nearly as functional as it once was. I also am not getting discounts on last-minute stays, like I used to get. Wyndham owners are getting that discount. I know that is true.
I'm going to deed mine back to Shell as well.
 
Wyndham and RCI, same parent company. That is why we no longer have other options.

Yes, a key component to my complaint. Should we have a consumer protection against this lack of choice when there is vertical integration and there are options that offer better value in the market.


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I'm going to deed mine back to Shell as well.

That is exactly what Wyndham likes - low cost product to resell at “2019 prices” - what a deal!


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Yes, a key component to my complaint. Should we have a consumer protection against this lack of choice when there is vertical integration and there are options that offer better value in the market.


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A lot of companies do this. It's been a complaint of mine for a long time. But I am a person who truly loves my II exchange options. RCI used to be great for me, but it's not as good as it used to be. I am stuck with RCI as a Wyndham owner.
 
I'm going to deed mine back to Shell as well.

The BOD should wonder why so many SVC owners are choosing to feed back to Wyndham and get out of SVC. I doubt the really ask the question and Wyndham would wouldn’t have any reason to highlight that statistic since it doesn’t is a high margin revenue generation for them…


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The BOD is very likely Wyndham employees, or at least stacked favorably in Wyndham's favor.
 
Last edited:
The BOD is very likely Wyndham employees, or at least stacked favorably in Wyndham's favor.

Yes, Even then they are required to sit in that position to represent the best interest of the owners. If they cannot perform that duty, they are in breech if fiduciary responsibility. Perhaps this is the part that needs to be updated in real estate code.


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I understand that they have historically changed from one exchange company to the other historically. One would expect the management company to choose the exchange company that provides the best value to the owners. When there is a management company/exchange company ownership, it there a conflict of interest and will affiliation be made based on best value. Maybe not. As exchange companies are owned by management companies, should open exchange be required for owners. Why am I required to use RCI with more expensive fees and an inferior quality? Should the association board have an obligation to better evaluate in influence decisions that impact owner satisfaction and value or do we accept them as puppets of the “developer/manager”?


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You answered your own question. Different owners prefer different wholesalers. Management companies have preferences. They often change. Why would you expect them to choose your particular preference? Think this is one individual owners on the wrong side have to suck up.
 
You answered your own question. Different owners prefer different wholesalers. Management companies have preferences. They often change. Why would you expect them to choose your particular preference? Think this is one individual owners on the wrong side have to suck up.

When the management company owns the exchange company, shouldn’t the the decision be left to the owners or at least be more transparent? Why are we not allowed to exchange with either major exchange company? Just considering the exchange fee alone, how to they justify selecting the exchange company with much higher fees. “Suck it up” implies that I shouldn’t express my frustration that the board isn’t setting expectations from that management company that we pay for services… I’d prefer answers.


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Shell Owners Association - West will hold an election for (2) board members during their Annual Meeting scheduled for September 19, 2023.
Three people are running for the two open positions. Two of the candidates are existing board members.
I voted all of my shares for the candidate who is not currently a board member, and encourage other Shell owners to do the same.
 
I was just looking at options in Shell/ RCI to use expiring points, due to expire in February of 2024, unless I extend the points, which is an expense I don't want to pay.

We pay about .30 per point in MF's for Shell points. Comparing our cost in WorldMark, Wyndham, Shell, RCI Points for the same unit:

10/1-10/8/ 2023 Sands of Kahana, 2 bedroom unit:

Shell is 5,000 points, $1,500 + $269 exchange fee = $1,769.
Wyndham is 205,000 points, $5.85 per 1,000 + $269 exchange fee = $1468.25
WorldMark is 10,000 points, $85.00 per 1,000 + $269 exchange fee = $1,119.00
RCI Points is 103,000 points, about 1 cent each +$269 exchange fee = $1,299.00

Shell is over pointed in RCI. 3 bedrooms are 7,500 points in red season. All of Hawaii is red.

But I have to say that Orlando one bedrooms are only 2,500 points, and when I could get Disney, that was very cheap for Disney.
 
20+ years ago, I bought a week at Inn at the Opera (San Francisco). No fee to make reservations; no fee to split the week multiple times (but only one weekend). When Shell first got started in I at O (I think around the depression that started in 2008), I was told I could buy into Shell for some outrageous amount and could still use my week if I chose but would get Shell points to use in a variety of places. The number of points would not be enough, though, to rent my week back if I deposited it (though I could keep that week). It still seemed weird to me that they wouldn't offer enough POINTS to rent my own week. Still, I agreed to purchase a "trial" package for $1600 to be paid over two years and I could try out various Shell properties. Lo and behold when it was paid off after the two years, I had used up the time period to use the package as well. That certainly made it clear that I should stay far far away from Shell.

I'm so grateful I just stuck with I at O. I'm an opera nut so it was unlikely I'd use Shell unless I somehow added points but I'm glad to be out of it. Wyndham (which took over Shell) has fired most of the personnel I used to know and who recognized me. I assume they lowered salaries in so doing - I never see the same people two years in a row. They did away with the wonderful free breakfast and seem to be charging so much for the restaurant space that no one will rent it and of course the maintenance fee has more than doubled since I purchased. For comparison, it used to be SO much less expensive than hotels in the area but now it is comparable. They did a half decent remodel of the place but somehow couldn't be bothered adding central heating or AC. Still I at O is a very wonderful place for music, theater, and opera lovers - even if downtown San Francisco is going downhill rapidly.
 
Has anyone figured out a reasonable way to add guest names to a reservation? I called to add my dad to a Peacock Suites reservation they were using and it took like 5 phone calls, where the resolution was basically "check in using your sons name and we'll make a note". Which worked OK (and us having the same uncommon last name probably helped) but doesn't seem optimal...
 
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