Timeshare presentation in Las Vegas

[ernststarhemberg]

I recall our old HGV Elara deeds having specific unit numbers. Our new bHC deeds have undivided interests.

 

[GT75]

The last one which I purchased had both wordings on the deed.

 

[muscae]

Everyone is entitled to their own preferences, of course, but how would the wording on the deed make a difference to your usage?

I want my deeds to have a specific unit number in a specific week. I can't determine if the undivided percentage is accurate. What percentage is being allocated to common areas? What percentage is being allocated to a 1BR plus compared to the percentage for a 1BR premier? There is not enough to go by. If the property were to get condemned and they allocate ownership 95% to common areas and 5% to units HGVC would get 95% of the payment and unit owners 5%. I just made these numbers up but.... I need a specific unit number and specific week on deeds I purchase. I earlier backed out of a purchase at Paradise for this same reason.

 

[muscae]

As far as usage of the points/unit it doesn't matter. As far as what I own it does matter.

 

[ernststarhemberg]

As far as I can tell HGV Elara and bHC Elara are two separate entities, with HGV Elara having floors 56 and below, and bHC Elara ("Elara HC Vacation Suites") having floors 57-61 (current phase of the project is floors 58-59) (with the entire building being owned by LV Tower 52, LLC).

HGV Elara and bHC Elara maintain separate books, have separate owners associations (a Nevada nonprofit corporation), have separate operating budgets, separate Boards, separate agreements with LV Tower 52, LLC to use their respective spaces within the building.

ALSO regarding the Elara Owners Lounge, according to the bHC project documents I just read that it will be on Floor 61.

Also the Elara bHC project document contains a section entitled 'Leasing of Suites' wherein there is a solid implication of an owner's ability to lease/rent out their owned space, as long as it doesn't create a pattern deemed commercial activity. The Project Rules don't appear to be as cut and dry about only being able to rent out home week as the HGV Club Rules. The Project Rules state that the suites can't be used for 'commercial purposes,' defined as a 'pattern of rental activity by an Owner that the Association' reasonably deems to be a commercial activity. There's also a whole section talking about the ability to rent/lease a suite so long as the agreement is in writing, with the obvious statement that Owners are responsible for the actions of their lessees/renters occupying the suites.

Sounds like a lot of wiggle room there!

 

[ernststarhemberg]

I want my deeds to have a specific unit number in a specific week. I can't determine if the undivided percentage is accurate. What percentage is being allocated to common areas? What percentage is being allocated to a 1BR plus compared to the percentage for a 1BR premier? There is not enough to go by. If the property were to get condemned and they allocate ownership 95% to common areas and 5% to units HGVC would get 95% of the payment and unit owners 5%. I just made these numbers up but.... I need a specific unit number and specific week on deeds I purchase. I earlier backed out of a purchase at Paradise for this same reason.

I found this in the Project document. Whether this allocation holds up in a bankruptcy situation is another concern.

 

[Nowaker]

I earlier backed out of a purchase at Paradise for this same reason.

No wonder you had to back out as per your own choosing against "undivided interests" because, like I said, it's done the same way for Elara BHC, Flamingo, Boulevard, Paradise, and others. It's HGVC's standard deed. You won't have much choice if you limit yourself to Elara, which takes over some legacy of Westgate.

In any case, one deed is not a complete representation of what you own. To understand what you really own, you must follow the deed chain. It's all described in there. Owners interests are clearly defined in the chain of real property deeds. The hypothetical 95% / 5% split against real owners is unfounded speculating.

 

[muscae]

No wonder you had to back out as per your own choosing against "undivided interests" because, like I said, it's done the same way for Elara BHC, Flamingo, Boulevard, Paradise, and others. It's HGVC's standard deed. You won't have much choice if you limit yourself to Elara, which takes over some legacy of Westgate.

In any case, one deed is not a complete representation of what you own. To understand what you really own, you must follow the deed chain. It's all described in there. Owners interests are clearly defined in the chain of real property deeds. The hypothetical 95% / 5% split against real owners is unfounded speculating.

The 95/5 split was not meant to be speculating as to what a split would be. It was meant to make the point that there is no transparency on how the undivided percentage is calculated. There is no way to know if the percentage is even close to accurate. With a specific unit number and specific week, you know what you own. There are a lot of HGVC properties with deeds that specify a unit number ND week, not just Elara. I personally own. In four separate properties that have deeds with a specific unit number and week.

 

[ksimm]

Sitting at the Elara now in a penalty box. The rep told me my account is now flagged and the only way I can get max will be to pay a $10,000 upgrade fee along with a property buy.

She did claim my Scotland deeds would apply to max tiers but I kinda felt she was full of it.

She got extremely offended when I said I was just here for the Hilton points.

 

[SmithOp]

Sitting at the Elara now in a penalty box. The rep told me my account is now flagged and the only way I can get max will be to pay a $10,000 upgrade fee along with a property buy.

She did claim my Scotland deeds would apply to max tiers but I kinda felt she was full of it.

She got extremely offended when I said I was just here for the Hilton points.

It's all show, she's bound to bring a manager in for a lower offer. Hang tough, get you HH points and get out!

 

[ksimm]

It's all show, she's bound to bring a manager in for a lower offer. Hang tough, get you HH points and get out!

Nope. No better offer. She reiterated that she was putting a red mark in our file and we wouldn’t ever get a good offer again. It really made me laugh.

The manager came over offered a vip package, I said no and we were on our way.

 

[Eric B]

Nope. No better offer. She reiterated that she was putting a red mark in our file and we wouldn’t ever get a good offer again. It really made me laugh.

The manager came over offered a vip package, I said no and we were on our way.

Oh, my! That went on your permanent record! How terrible....

 

[ernststarhemberg]

A red flag? Eff off! Like they're doing you a favor letting you see their offers. That is a horrible sales job.

 

[GT75]

Nope. No better offer. She reiterated that she was putting a red mark in our file and we wouldn’t ever get a good offer again. It really made me laugh.

Can you please go back and have them either transfer the red flag to my folder or just plain give me one too? I have a family trip coming up to Ocean Oak next month. The concierge will call every room for an owner's update throughout our stay. With a nice red flag, I won't get hounded. Yea, right.

 

[ernststarhemberg]

I can't get over that. Since you said you are just there for the points and have no intention of buying, they're going "red flag" your "file"? Yeah, sure, you'll be getting a call to attend an owner's update next quarter guaranteed!

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Nope. No better offer. She reiterated that she was putting a red mark in our file and we wouldn’t ever get a good offer again. It really made me laugh.

The manager came over offered a vip package, I said no and we were on our way.

We were scolded at Lagoon Tower once. Rep said we would never be invited back for a presentation because we had too many VIP packages. Nothing changed. Attended several more for the goodies and bought another VIP after that.

We also had a rep that claimed that Scotland bought from HGVC would count toward tiers. Even brought over a piece of paper - but wouldn't let me have a copy. I believe it was actually referring to purchases qualifying for Elite tiers in legacy HGVC. I didn't believe him about MAX.

Don't worry about it.

 

[letsgobobby]

Nope. No better offer. She reiterated that she was putting a red mark in our file and we wouldn’t ever get a good offer again. It really made me laugh.

The manager came over offered a vip package, I said no and we were on our way.

the VIP is a "good offer", you should have pointed that out

 

[ksimm]

We were scolded at Lagoon Tower once. Rep said we would never be invited back for a presentation because we had too many VIP packages. Nothing changed. Attended several more for the goodies and bought another VIP after that.

We also had a rep that claimed that Scotland bought from HGVC would count toward tiers. Even brought over a piece of paper - but wouldn't let me have a copy. I believe it was actually referring to purchases qualifying for Elite tiers in legacy HGVC. I didn't believe him about MAX.

Don't worry about it.

That was the one interesting thing that she told me. She said they could only buy back my Scotland deeds for what I had paid (around 5k for 16000 points). But we could use the points for Max tiers. Of course we’d have to but 2500 points for 13k (I assume eoy).

It still makes me laugh when I told her that I was only here for the points and she looked at me and said “how sad”. If I would have been quicker I would have asked her if I preferred that I pretended I was interested for a few hours and then rescinded.

She was a pretty arrogant rep, for example she was taking about the great deals that you get on cruises and I said I was familiar with it, she flipped me the keyboard and told me to show her.

By the end of it she was visibly annoyed, I told her to have a fantastic day and she got up and left saying she needed to get to her next customer. But when we met her she said she only met one client a day…

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I want my deeds to have a specific unit number in a specific week. I can't determine if the undivided percentage is accurate. What percentage is being allocated to common areas? What percentage is being allocated to a 1BR plus compared to the percentage for a 1BR premier? There is not enough to go by. If the property were to get condemned and they allocate ownership 95% to common areas and 5% to units HGVC would get 95% of the payment and unit owners 5%. I just made these numbers up but.... I need a specific unit number and specific week on deeds I purchase. I earlier backed out of a purchase at Paradise for this same reason.

IMHO...you are worrying too much about nothing.

First of all the chances of a bankrupt building with a hotel branded timeshare are slim to none.

Second, if the calculation is wrong then there would be lawsuits and you could sue for failure to disclose in the original sale. I could envision the class action lawyers drooling over this if true.

Third, no matter what, it is a small timeshare i.e. 1/52 of 1 unit. There are no plus or premier at some of the properties you mentioned. Plus I doubt the difference in square footage or allocation is significant. Resales are less than $7k. Whether you get $5000 or $5200 in the end does it really matter? Or are you dreaming of getting $50k off of a $5000 investment (reality check: it isn't going to happen. And if it does, would anyone care if it is $50k or $50,100 in the end?)

I worry about a lot of risks but not this. Perhaps timeshares are not for you.