Insurers junking entire car for minor EV accidents

[Carolinian]

This has got to impact insurance premiums

Scratched EV battery? Your insurer may have to junk the whole car

For many electric vehicles, there is no way to repair or assess even slightly damaged battery packs after accidents, forcing insurance companies to write off cars with few miles - leading to higher premiums and undercutting gains from going electric.

www.reuters.com

 

[wilma]

Weekly anti-EV post.

 

[easyrider]

EV's and hybrids can be difficult to repair after a minor wreck. It probably has more to do with a lack of qualified mechanics to work on them than the difficulty of the work.

Bill

 

[emeryjre]

It is a good article about a short comings of EV battery construction. There are still problems with EV's Nobody is claiming they are perfect. The industry leader is falling out of favor because of some design flaws and overselling the supposed self driving feature. You can still drive down to your local Car Dealership and buy whatever you are willing to pay for. ICE or EV. The money sitting in salvage yards in replaced batteries has somebody coming up with a solution as you read this.

 

[davidvel]

It is a good article about a short comings of EV battery construction. There are still problems with EV's Nobody is claiming they are perfect. The industry leader is falling out of favor because of some design flaws and overselling the supposed self driving feature. You can still drive down to your local Car Dealership and buy whatever you are willing to pay for. ICE or EV. The money sitting in salvage yards in replaced batteries has somebody coming up with a solution as you read this.

It sounds more like an infrastructure and qualified mechanics issue, if the article is to be believed: "Hill estimated at least 95% of the cells in the hundreds of EV battery packs - and thousands of hybrid battery packs - Synetiq has stored at Doncaster are undamaged and should be reused."

So the claimed issue with the car itself doesn't really exist.

 

[davidvel]

Weekly anti-EV post.

If only it was just weekly. People can't control themselves, really childish in fact.

 

[TUGBrian]

have to imagine most junkyards will remove the battery as its usually very easy to sell to repair or conversion shops for replacing into an older vehicle or one with a severely degraded battery.

battery easily the most valuable thing in the vehicle, especially after a wreck!

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Interesting article. We had a car totaled by the insurance company for what i considered very minor damage. that was an old school gas engine car, so this can be problem for many vehicles.

 

[emeryjre]

It sounds more like an infrastructure and qualified mechanics issue, if the article is to be believed: "Hill estimated at least 95% of the cells in the hundreds of EV battery packs - and thousands of hybrid battery packs - Synetiq has stored at Doncaster are undamaged and should be reused."

So the claimed issue with the car itself doesn't really exist.

It is a correctable problem. It is a downside to not having a strong dealer network. for one thing. No one has incentive to become trained in the repair. The people who specialize in the repair of EV's have a booming business.

 

[Carolinian]

If you read the article, Tesla is actually taking steps to make this problem worse.

 

[easyrider]

It is a correctable problem. It is a downside to not having a strong dealer network. for one thing. No one has incentive to become trained in the repair. The people who specialize in the repair of EV's are having a booming business.

In most locations there aren't enough ev's to make any money specializing in repairing them, imo.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

have to imagine most junkyards will remove the battery as its usually very easy to sell to repair or conversion shops for replacing into an older vehicle or one with a severely degraded battery.

battery easily the most valuable thing in the vehicle, especially after a wreck!

Also, you will want to put them in a stable environment for safety.

 

[TUGBrian]

In most locations there aren't enough ev's to make any money specializing in repairing them, imo.

Bill

its interesting, as im only knowledgeable regarding the nissan leaf platform...but there are specialized shops all over the world that swap these batteries and they all seem to have more business than they know what to do with.

seems finding the wrecked cars with good battery packs is more than 50% of the work!

have to imagine other models are similar!

 

[callwill]

Also, you will want to put them in a stable environment for safety.

you mean with the horses?

 

[kanerf]

Used EV batteries can be used in homes to store line power or solar. In that environment capacity and recharge time are not as crucial.

 

[easyrider]

its interesting, as im only knowledgeable regarding the nissan leaf platform...but there are specialized shops all over the world that swap these batteries and they all seem to have more business than they know what to do with.

seems finding the wrecked cars with good battery packs is more than 50% of the work!

have to imagine other models are similar!

IAA ( insurance auto auctions) and other auctions sells alot of ev's before the ev's even make it to wrecking yard. It's pretty easy to replace a battery pack or bad cell in a hybrid like an Escape. I haven't worked on an ev but with the right equipment it should be easy. Nisan Leaf looks easy.

The problem with buying a wrecked ev at an auction is the electronics. Any thing that is damaged regarding electronic components could be spendy.

Do you like the Nisan Leaf ? I see them on Craigslist all the time with rebuilt batteries. They say these will drive at least 60 miles on a charge but the guys selling these are 140 miles away.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

Do you like the Nisan Leaf ? I see them on Craigslist all the time with rebuilt batteries. They say these will drive at least 60 miles on a charge but the guys selling these are 140 miles away.

Bill

The first generation LEAF was underpowered and the battery pack was not actively cooled which led to shortened battery life.

Also the LEAF uses a CHAdeMO charging port, the Betamax of EVs.

 

[PigsDad]

Interesting article. We had a car totaled by the insurance company for what i considered very minor damage. that was an old school gas engine car, so this can be problem for many vehicles.

True. I follow a Porsche forum, and every so often someone posts pictures of their "totaled" (by the insurance company) cars post-accident. It is shocking what is considered totaled. Basically, if the airbag goes off, there is a very good chance of it being totaled.

Kurt

 

[momeason]

EV's and hybrids can be difficult to repair after a minor wreck. It probably has more to do with a lack of qualified mechanics to work on them than the difficulty of the work.

Bill

We hit something on the highway. My Tesla had 10k in damage but it was repaired at a luxury body shop.
The incident was in Charlotte NC and there was a qualified body shop there. It was over 6 weeks. Lack of parts during Covid.

 

[am1]

How does this affect everyones insurance? A minor accident could be very expensive for a minor collision if it is with an ev. Same with luxury cars. The same accident could cost an insurance company a multiple depending on what car their client hits. On the outside it seems like ev owners and luxury car owners should have to have a secondary insurance to cover the difference between their value and normal values of cars. Not sure the fine details but I agree with the concept.

Even just having high end cars or evs in your zip code at the moment would raise ones insurance premium.

 

[TUGBrian]

IAA ( insurance auto auctions) and other auctions sells alot of ev's before the ev's even make it to wrecking yard. It's pretty easy to replace a battery pack or bad cell in a hybrid like an Escape. I haven't worked on an ev but with the right equipment it should be easy. Nisan Leaf looks easy.

The problem with buying a wrecked ev at an auction is the electronics. Any thing that is damaged regarding electronic components could be spendy.

Do you like the Nisan Leaf ? I see them on Craigslist all the time with rebuilt batteries. They say these will drive at least 60 miles on a charge but the guys selling these are 140 miles away.

Bill

I do yes! I actually have a 2011 that i use to ferry my kids to and from school every day (16m round trip).

it has its limitations in range but as im using it, its been absolutely perfect! I was spending 100/week in gas just idling in the pick up lines each day even on the 16m round trip. ac blows ice cold in the leaf and i charge it up maybe once or twice a week using the 110v trickle charger it came with. will get the pack to 80% in about 5 hours, 100% in 7 or so (always overnight), and no requirement to dink with 220 or put in a new outlet anywhere as the factory charger pulls less than 15a and works fine on even the smallest existing home circuit.

mine has a battery health meter and it shows 70% vs when it was new. I believe the battery was replaced once via nissan prior to me owning it (its only got 60k miles on it)...but who knows. for what the guy sold it to me for, i really dont care as itll do my 16 mile round trip till my kids are long out of school and thats all I need and with the fuel savings even if I use 3/gal in fuel costs, itll pay for itself given what I bought it for in a rather short time plus zero maintenance required!

 

[TUGBrian]

The first generation LEAF was underpowered and the battery pack was not actively cooled which led to shortened battery life.

Also the LEAF uses a CHAdeMO charging port, the Betamax of EVs.

def amazing to see how things have come in a decade for sure! its also not the most pleasant looking of designs but it works great as essentially a street legal golf cart that can carry 2 adults and two car seats with plenty of room!

ive never actually tried to find a chademo port to charge at a higher level, sticking with the 110 unit (separate charging port on the car) to top it off every few days or so. its an extremely small draw as mentioned above.

will say that its range PLUMMETS at highway speeds. even if it said 60miles left on range, if you try to take that little bean up to 75mph you could cut that in half without breaking a sweat.

it has a battery temp sensor display on the dash, and honestly ive never seen it even get past "half" even on the hottest of florida days. apparently the temp issue comes into play when you drain almost the entire pack rapidly (ie highway speeds), then plug in the ultra high amp charging port say at a charging station or nissan dealer...which makes the battery temp go up even more into dangerous areas and no real way to cool it down. and then obviously get back on the highway etc.

 

[TUGBrian]

How does this affect everyones insurance? A minor accident could be very expensive for a minor collision if it is with an ev. Same with luxury cars. The same accident could cost an insurance company a multiple depending on what car their client hits. On the outside it seems like ev owners and luxury car owners should have to have a secondary insurance to cover the difference between their value and normal values of cars. Not sure the fine details but I agree with the concept.

Even just having high end cars or evs in your zip code at the moment would raise ones insurance premium.

I dont even insure the leaf for colission tbh. i paid 3k for the car!

looking into replacement battery packs (of which your options are really the nissan dealer to put in another 24kw pack, or one of the specialized shops that will put in a newer 40k pack)...both those options are north of 9 to 10k!

id just assume buy another used leaf with a half decent battery in it for WAY less than that. does kinda suck that it essentially makes the car a disposable battery container however!

 

[pedro47]

Sounds liked there are a lack of qualified technicians to work on an EV and there are a lack or a shortage of repair replacement parts for EV at this time.

 

[TUGBrian]

dont think thats limited to EVs at all these days... vs across the board.