VSN Features/Benefits Reduction and Elimination Post Abound Launch [Call to Action]

[timsi]

“They designed Abound to be better…” Isn‘t this a good thing for MVC and Vistana owners? If you really think they designed Abound to be better, then why are you upset that they designed a better product?

It is like saying we should still ride in horse and buggy and not automobiles. Then getting angry at the automobile companies because they ruined your horse and buggy business.

By better I meant giving it a clear edge to dismantle VSN, not that a majority of the VSN members will benefit from Abound. Competitive advantage is probably a better description since I was not referring to the relative usage value of the two for the current members.

 

[timsi]

VSN=Flip Phones
Abound=Top of the line smartphone.

Is this the new Marriott talking point?

I hope not, it would be insulting to those who were sold Vistana based on the internal exchange features and the StarOptions chart.

 

[Grandma2016]

Honestly the early check in and late checkout is something we will miss...it is so irritating as we have been loyal owners since it was first developed.

That is the benefit we will miss too. So frustrating

 

[dioxide45]

Is this the new Marriott talking point?

I hope not, it would be insulting to those who were sold Vistana based on the internal exchange features and the StarOptions chart.

It might be. I heard similar analogies when Marriott rolled out their DC program and how weeks were the old and DC Points the new!

 

[Eric B]

That is the benefit we will miss too. So frustrating

Not at all surprising that you agree with the posting….

 

[SandyPGravel]

I have one 11-night stay at Harborside via SOs for this year, and have had other 7+ night stays at WKORV and other resorts. StarOptions worked great for me for 15 years, and I haven't yet lost all hope that it won't work in the future. I see no reason to pay more money to get the same results I've had for 15 years - that's the real disappointment for me.

I agree. I have a 9 night stay in two separate reservations over Thanksgiving week this year at Harborside using Star Options. I have stayed at the Westin St John 12 & 13 nights using star options. I have stayed at WKORN 9 nights with star options.

 

[TravelTime]

I wouldn’t expect much griping on the marriott board at all…. NOTHING changes for them. The only exception would be the amount of “bookers” in the exchange and possibly having the exchange funded with prime vistana weeks. While I agree the MVC owners have to worry about increased “bookers” when it comes to inventory in the exchange, one thing MVC owners don’t have to worry about is taking prime MVC inventory and putting it into another exchange platform like VSN owners worry about. Granted there is nothing proving that will happen, it’s a “worry” of what can happen. Although according to some Marriott owners on TUG, MVC owners should have first right to prime inventory because “it was an acquisition not a merger”

another thing that has been changed for vistana owners are the banking deadlines. It’s almost as if Marriott moved deadlines up for SO banking just to give a slight buffer for those who missed the deadline, they can still elect for abound points.

I own both Marriott and Vistana. I am worried about increased competition for my favorite MVC resorts that already have so much competition that I need to book at 13 months right when the window opens. I have successfully gotten everything I want since I became a member but I suspect it will be a lot harder if Abound is as popular as people here say. I have heard some griping on Facebook about this. I think Abound needs to put more inventory into Abound due to increased demand, and high demand has always been there for the best resorts and best views.

 

[TravelTime]

The majority of VSN VOIs in Abound will be of lower tier - only a minority of Owners will turn in valuable VOIs as it doesn’t make financial/vacation sense.
Thus, keeping VSN viable for these higher tier VOIs.
Why trade downwards, outside of convenience? Or being bad at math…


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I think many higher demand VOIs will actually be turned into Abound. I own Westin Maui North OF and I plan to turn in my VSN because I will get 8300+ Abound points. With that, I can take 2+ vacations in 2BR with OF views in many Abound resorts bc I often travel off season. I can‘t that in VSN.

 

[CPNY]

I think many higher demand VOIs will actually be turned into Abound. I own Westin Maui North OF and I plan to turn in my VSN because I will get 8300+ Abound points. With that, I can take 2+ vacations in 2BR with OF views in many Abound resorts bc I often travel off season. I can‘t that in VSN.

This makes sense. The Maui OF is much better off in abound than in the VSN. Things like an SVV 1 bedroom is better off in VSN/interval than abound. This is why it’s so important for people to understand all of their options before making a decision on how they book

 

[TravelTime]

Understood - but I see that the majority of high-end VSN VOIs would hold pat - not that much different that goes on with exchanging HomeResort for StarOptions (unless they can exchange upwards. eg. WKV Plat to Maui).

Especially with high MFs.
Time will tell.


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In Abound, the MFs for Maui OF turn out to be really low, like the lowest in the Abound system. It is approx $0.36 vs approx $0.68 for trust points. So it really is efficient. Most Vistana owners have always looked at the total MF and not truly understood MFs for Maui OF even in the Vistana system. I was showed Vistana owners how I looked at MFs within the Vistana system and not sure anyone understood it.

 

[emeryjre]

MVC is a publicly traded company as we all know. The company must increase profits every quarter to be considered successful. They have a limited number of ways to do this. Keep selling points to a more people. Very profitable. The problem is that there are now more people competing for a same number of units, especially during peak periods at peak places. The Abound program is a fancy smoke and mirror game to make it look like there are more ways to use your newly purchased points. As has been discussed repeatedly in this thread, there is a loss to VSN members of some benefits, a new skim of points, and no increase in the actual number of units available in the overall Abound system for all the new people being convinced to buy in.

Marriot has increased its profits based on last quarter, and may increase it's profits this upcoming quarter based on increased points sales on the promise of Abound. The company has achieved success. The problem is the more you know, the less you like where this is going. Sometimes being ignorant of how the shell game works is bliss.

 

[TravelTime]

VSN=Flip Phones
Abound=Top of the line smartphone.

God analogy. Mine was VSN=horse and buggy, Abound=Automobiles

 

[DanCali]

I think many higher demand VOIs will actually be turned into Abound. I own Westin Maui North OF and I plan to turn in my VSN because I will get 8300+ Abound points. With that, I can take 2+ vacations in 2BR with OF views in many Abound resorts bc I often travel off season. I can‘t that in VSN.

If you travel in the offseason like you suggest you can do quite well in SVN with your 176,700 Staroptions. Perhaps not the OF views you mention, because there aren't that many resorts with OF views in VSN outside your home resort, but there are quite a few locations where a 2BR is 95,700 or 81,000 for a full week in the off season which buys you 12-15 nights.

Yes, MVC has a lot more options and perhaps 8300 points get you a bit further in Abound. But I believe most of the Vistana non-Maui inventory will still be in VSN and even more so for the off-peak weeks that were not rewarded highly in Abound. So, to trade to those places Staroptions will probably be a better way to go.

 

[TravelTime]

If you travel in the offseason like you suggest you can do quite well in SVN with your 176,700 Staroptions. Perhaps not the OF views you mention, because there aren't that many resorts with OF views in VSN outside your home resort, but there are quite a few locations where a 2BR is 95,700 or 81,000 for a full week in the off season which buys you 12-15 nights.

Yes, MVC has a lot more options and perhaps 8300 points get you a bit further in Abound. But I believe most of the Vistana non-Maui inventory will still be in VSN and even more so for the off-peak weeks that were not rewarded highly in Abound. So, to trade to those places Staroptions will probably be a better way to go.

2 places I love to go in June when the water is warm and before hurricane season for appox 8100 points (still have approx 200 points left over):
Ritz St Thomas 2BR ocean view = approx 3700-3900 points
Marco Island 2 BR gulf front = approx 4200 points

There are also quite a few resorts in Hawaii that are easier to get into for about 5000-6000 points in 2BR with ocean views at higher seasons. But even if it is 7000-8000 for 2BR ocean view/ocean front in higher season for non-Maui, it is still a nice exchange if I want Hawaii but do not want to go to my home resort in Maui. The skim is not bad for me in Maui in my exact same unit but when I want to visit Maui in my home resort, I will use VSN. Also I can do less than 1-1 exchanges in most high demand resorts in higher seasons at 12 months. To me, even that is great for diversity.

 

[timsi]

God analogy. Mine was VSN=horse and buggy, Abound=Automobiles

Given how far one can get in VSN with the current chart, for many VSN is the automobile and Abound is the donkey.

 

[byeloe]

2 places I love to go in June when the water is warm and before hurricane season for appox 8100 points (still have approx 200 points left over):
Ritz St Thomas 2BR ocean view = approx 3700-3900 points
Marco Island 2 BR gulf front = approx 4200 points

There are also quite a few resorts in Hawaii that are easier to get into for about 5000-6000 points in 2BR with ocean views at higher seasons. But even if it is 7000-8000 for 2BR ocean view/ocean front in higher season for non-Maui, it is still a nice exchange if I want Hawaii but do not want to go to my home resort in Maui. The skim is not bad for me in Maui in my exact same unit but when I want to visit Maui in my home resort, I will use VSN. Also I can do less than 1-1 exchanges in most high demand resorts in higher seasons at 12 months. To me, even that is great for diversity.

Those are some great exchanges. Your 8300 points is awesome. We have used our 81000 staroptions from SVV to get 2 weeks in Cancun in January. That definitely won't be possible in Abound. I will have to look closer at the MVC resorts to see if there are any locations that interest us

 

[DavidnRobin]

WKORVN OF is the poor man’s WKORV OF

Now do WKORV OFD and OFC in Abound…
OFD ~$32K, ~$3500 MF, rental value ~$6000
OFC ~$38K, ~$3200 MF, rental value ~$6500


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[DanCali]

Given how far one can get in VSN with the current chart, for many VSN is the automobile and Abound is the donkey.

The one place where Abound has an edge is the ability to transfer points from one owner to another (and thus having an external rental market). In VSN you might be short 1000 Staroptions and you're out of luck. You can borrow from next year, but that involves prepaying MFs and breaking a home resort reservation.

But as an exchange system VSN is a lot cleaner. Points In = Points Out, no skim, with seasons and numbers relatively easy to remember. In Abound you can't usually make a reservation without first checking when the reservation window opens and what is the number of points required - too complicated for me to remember. No election deadlines in VSN. Also, VSN Elite benefits were superior (many of them now being removed), and so was the online reservation system until they decided to break it intentionally by removing the ability to see what's available outside your booking window. It definitely has the feel like they are trying to make it seem antiquated and out of date.

 

[JIMinNC]

This makes sense. The Maui OF is much better off in abound than in the VSN. Things like an SVV 1 bedroom is better off in VSN/interval than abound. This is why it’s so important for people to understand all of their options before making a decision on how they book

Yep, it's the same in the MVC world. People who own in places like the off-beach resorts in Hilton Head; Doral in Florida: Branson, Missouri; Fairway Villas, NJ; Williamsburg; many of the Orlando properties; and almost everyone who owns off-season weeks can find better value trading in Interval, because their low point allocations mean they have to use multiple weeks to get one week in a high demand area. Nevertheless, when you look at Points availability for many of these places, it would seem that a lot of people are still choosing to elect for points despite the low allocations. I doubt all of the availability is due just to Trust ownership. They just adapt and bank/borrow to go where they want to, albeit less frequently. It's easy to do because there is no need to pre-pay maintenance fees and no fees to bank/borrow. At the same time, others still choose to use Interval for better value. Both systems coexist.

But it's also important to note, that many (most?) owners aren't quite as focused on squeezing the last penny of value out of every trade/points transaction as many here are on TUG. As an example, back in the early 2000s through 2013, when we owned at Kaanapali Beach Club (Sunterra, then Diamond) we would trade our Hawaii week for Orlando since we had younger kids - a terrible trade for a numbers cruncher, but it worked for us because we could just go onto RCI and book from instant exchange inventory at HGVC in Orlando without putting in one of the frustrating "request and wait" ongoing searches that we hate.

While it's certainly true that a VSN owner at a location that Abound valued lower can do better using VSN if they want to travel somewhere where VSN has resorts, it will be interesting to see the appeal that Abound may have in offering so many new places to go. VSN can't get them to Aruba, St. Kitts, Marco Island, Hilton Head Island, the Palm Beaches, Newport Coast, Las Vegas, ocean front in Myrtle Beach, Park City, Lake Tahoe, Big Island, or Oahu. VSN also can't get them to the Pulse locations in New York, Boston, Washington, San Francisco, San Diego, or South Beach, where short stays are popular and can work for folks with smaller allocations. Banking/borrowing might be required for a lower point valued owner to travel to some of the higher point locations, but it will happen. Both programs will co-exist, but over time, the balance will be determined by the choices owners make.

 

[dsmrp]

If you travel in the offseason like you suggest you can do quite well in SVN ...

But I believe most of the Vistana non-Maui inventory will still be in VSN and even more so for the off-peak weeks that were not rewarded highly in Abound. So, to trade to those places Staroptions will probably be a better way to go.

+1 That's has been my alternate plan B for several years, if Hawaii became unavailable or unattainable with my current amount of star options. Exchanging Florida for Hawaii was a good deal while it lasted, but I didn't expect it to last forever. I know what it feels like to own at more expensive MF Hawaii resort and have less expensive MF owners exchange into it regularly with their cheaper points. But I bought (Hawaii) where I want to go regardless.

 

[CPNY]

Yep, it's the same in the MVC world. People who own in places like the off-beach resorts in Hilton Head; Doral in Florida: Branson, Missouri; Fairway Villas, NJ; Williamsburg; many of the Orlando properties; and almost everyone who owns off-season weeks can find better value trading in Interval, because their low point allocations mean they have to use multiple weeks to get one week in a high demand area. Nevertheless, when you look at Points availability for many of these places, it would seem that a lot of people are still choosing to elect for points despite the low allocations. I doubt all of the availability is due just to Trust ownership. They just adapt and bank/borrow to go where they want to, albeit less frequently. It's easy to do because there is no need to pre-pay maintenance fees and no fees to bank/borrow. At the same time, others still choose to use Interval for better value. Both systems coexist.

But it's also important to note, that many (most?) owners aren't quite as focused on squeezing the last penny of value out of every trade/points transaction as many here are on TUG. As an example, back in the early 2000s through 2013, when we owned at Kaanapali Beach Club (Sunterra, then Diamond) we would trade our Hawaii week for Orlando since we had younger kids - a terrible trade for a numbers cruncher, but it worked for us because we could just go onto RCI and book from instant exchange inventory at HGVC in Orlando without putting in one of the frustrating "request and wait" ongoing searches that we hate.

While it's certainly true that a VSN owner at a location that Abound valued lower can do better using VSN if they want to travel somewhere where VSN has resorts, it will be interesting to see the appeal that Abound may have in offering so many new places to go. VSN can't get them to Aruba, St. Kitts, Marco Island, Hilton Head Island, the Palm Beaches, Newport Coast, Las Vegas, ocean front in Myrtle Beach, Park City, Lake Tahoe, Big Island, or Oahu. VSN also can't get them to the Pulse locations in New York, Boston, Washington, San Francisco, San Diego, or South Beach, where short stays are popular and can work for folks with smaller allocations. Banking/borrowing might be required for a lower point valued owner to travel to some of the higher point locations, but it will happen. Both programs will co-exist, but over time, the balance will be determined by the choices owners make.

I think the biggest draw to abound for the VSN owner is the ability to rent points when needed if their ownership doesn’t yield enough for a reservation they want.

I agree that both systems will have benefits and coexist for quite a while

 

[dioxide45]

I think the biggest draw to abound for the VSN owner is the ability to rent points when needed if their ownership doesn’t yield enough for a reservation they want.

I agree that both systems will have benefits and coexist for quite a while

and you don't even have to elect points in order to be able to rent. You can rent enough for an entire reservation.

 

[CPNY]

and you don't even have to elect points in order to be able to rent. You can rent enough for an entire reservation.

Oh that’s great to know!

 

[TravelTime]

Given how far one can get in VSN with the current chart, for many VSN is the automobile and Abound is the donkey.

Yes many people keep using old models.

 

[TravelTime]

Those are some great exchanges. Your 8300 points is awesome. We have used our 81000 staroptions from SVV to get 2 weeks in Cancun in January. That definitely won't be possible in Abound. I will have to look closer at the MVC resorts to see if there are any locations that interest us

Was it 2 weeks in 2BRs? We need 2BRs for our family.