VSN Features/Benefits Reduction and Elimination Post Abound Launch [Call to Action]

[DanCali]

It appears that, based on recently released information, most VSN owners will likely be adversely impacted to varying degrees when using their ownership within the VSN ecosystem, whether they join Abound or not.

8/24/22 NEW THREAD: Discussion of new Abound/VSN Documents [please limit chitchat posts]

I thought it would be good to have a fresh start on this topic, since we are now discussing the actual new published terms, rather than just speculation. • I moved all of the posts from 8/24/22 to this thread, starting with the Docs posted on Vistana. • Please avoid off topic chitchat posts...

tugbbs.com

Some of the upcoming changes include:

- Banked Staroptions will expire after 12 months (18 months for Presidential; 24 months for Chairman).
Currently it's 24 months for all. (Impacts all except 5-Star Elite / Chairman, and resale voluntary)
- Banking Staroptions deadlines will be 31-61 days earlier for most Elite owners (Oct 31 for Chairman and Aug 31 for Executive or Presidential).
Currently it's December 31 for 5-Star and Oct 1 for 3-Star and 4-Star. (Impacts mostly VSN Elite Owners)
- No more early checkin and late checkout.
Currently it's a benefit for 5-Star Elite (Impacts 5-Star Elite Owners)

Why take away a benefit literally every single developer buyer had (2-year banking)? Why cancel the Elite program (and some associated benefits) altogether, which impacts some of their most loyal customers?

In my view, if they are keeping the VSN Exchange alive, there is really no reason to get rid of the VSN banking rules and the VSN Elite program altogether. Banked Staroptions can still have a 2-year life while banked Abound points can have a 12-24 month life. Staroptions can also have different banking deadlines than Abound points. And Elite owners using Staroptions to reserve at a VSN resort can retain the few extra benefits they were promised. To me, these changes seem unnecessary and to some extent disrespect the Vistana system we all liked enough to buy into. Even if they don't sell the product anymore, there are tens of thousands of owners who will be adversely impacted by these changes. It could have been done differently...

If you feel similarly to some degree, I suggest you call owner services, ask for a supervisor ("resolution services") and voice your displeasure. Perhaps some of these issues can be rectified if we make our feelings known.

 

[cubigbird]

The 5* StarOptions Banking deadline is currently Dec 31st. The movement of the deadline back to October is an adverse change for the owners that have paid the most money. Certainly biting the hand that has fed them.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Probably better to contact Marriott Customer Advocacy Dept.

I was in contact with them a couple of months ago regarding the website.

Ray Filippone
Director Customer Advocacy
CUSTOMER ADVOCACY

800-860-9384
ray.filippone@mvwc.com


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[Sv1plat52]

I have EOY so I am double F because I will never be able to double my points usage for a year. I was planning to splurge on 3 bedroom LO one of these years…

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

As far as I recall, banking options wasn't a benefit when I purchased in 2005 or maybe at that time it was simply that we weren't Elite?

 

[VacationForever]

As far as I recall, banking options wasn't a benefit when I purchased in 2005 or maybe at that time it was simply that we weren't Elite?

Banking wasn't an option back then. I remember that you had to use all your Star Options or simply deposit into II. I declined to join SVN for about 8 years before finally joining when they said it would not be offered to me again, in 2008.

 

[DanCali]

As far as I recall, banking options wasn't a benefit when I purchased in 2005 or maybe at that time it was simply that we weren't Elite?

Banking is a benefit that all owners who have staroptions can enjoy. I am not quite sure at what point it was added as a benefit.

The only thing that is different with the elite levels is just the deadline until which point during the year you can bank in Staroptions


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[DanCali]

I have EOY so I am double F because I will never be able to double my points usage for a year. I was planning to splurge on 3 bedroom LO one of these years…

Could you do it with a bank/borrow transaction? It would probably have to be in the years in which you do not actually own usage.


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[cubigbird]

Being able to bank up until the end of the year is/or was one of the most valuable 5* elite benefits. MVC is taking away value by this change, not adding value. It will certainly be a factor in holding off on adding to our portfolio.

 

[pchung6]

It is just the first step evil Marriott will take every good things away. Just look what happened to SPG, Marriott will slowly take something away every year.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

Banking is a benefit that all owners who have staroptions can enjoy. I am not quite sure at what point it was added as a benefit.

The only thing that is different with the elite levels is just the deadline until which point during the year you can bank in Staroptions


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As I said, it was added after we purchased so there's no way it will be in our documentation and therefore it's probably a 'benefit' they feel they can retire. It doesn't mean I like it.

 

[Sv1plat52]

Could you do it with a bank/borrow transaction? It would probably have to be in the years in which you do not actually own usage.


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We’ll have to see how it goes, because the added issue of booking at 8 months. I am assuming there won’t be much inventory since you can book at 12 with points and more competition for the good resorts.

 

[RunCat]

As far as I recall, banking options wasn't a benefit when I purchased in 2005 or maybe at that time it was simply that we weren't Elite?

I was in sales in 2007 and it was not available at the time. The inability to bank was actually sold as a benefit.

 

[cubigbird]

It is just the first step evil Marriott will take every good things away. Just look what happened to SPG, Marriott will slowly take something away every year.

There certainly is precedent there. Marriott basically gutted what value SPG provided.

 

[CPNY]

I think all of the Marriott people will owe us vistana people a public apology on here. When we voiced concerns over Marriott as a company with terrible customer service we were called conspiracy theorists or basically told to stay quiet as this was a take over not a merger. All things are pointing to US being right.

 

[Jayco29D]

I think all of the Marriott people will owe us vistana people a public apology on here. When we voiced concerns over Marriott as a company with terrible customer service we were called conspiracy theorists or basically told to stay quiet as this was a take over not a merger. All things are pointing to US being right.

Maybe not. Free enrollment of mandatory resales was a big surprise and worth a lot. Many MVC owners are not happy about all the Vistana owners being able to book up Marriott resorts. Some Marriott owners do not see any benefit to the Vistana resorts and do not want a bunch more people competing for their favorite resorts. You can look at this different ways.

 

[Red elephant]

Well this will be my reason for not buying any club points when they ask me in October at the sales presentation in WKV.

 

[dioxide45]

Could you do it with a bank/borrow transaction? It would probably have to be in the years in which you do not actually own usage.


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YOu can only borrow in to a use year. So this won't work.

 

[dioxide45]

There certainly is precedent there. Marriott basically gutted what value SPG provided.

Technically a different "Marriott".

 

[CPNY]

The 5* StarOptions Banking deadline is currently Dec 31st. The movement of the deadline back to October is an adverse change for the owners that have paid the most money. Certainly biting the hand that has fed them.

They are doing this to force people to put it in abound instead…. Sleazy on marriotts part. What a terrible company. Strip away 2 year banking and push up banking deadline for elite will make abound more appealing. For those elites who don’t want participate are going lose out

 

[CPNY]

Maybe not. Free enrollment of mandatory resales was a big surprise and worth a lot. Many MVC owners are not happy about all the Vistana owners being able to book up Marriott resorts. Some Marriott owners do not see any benefit to the Vistana resorts and do not want a bunch more people competing for their favorite resorts. You can look at this different ways.

Then they lied when they said “you can use your ownership the same way you do today if you choose not to participate”. Also, throwing out a retro date for resales is nefarious in nature.

 

[cubigbird]

Then they lied when they said “you can use your ownership the same way you do today if you choose not to participate”. Also, throwing out a retro date for resales is nefarious in nature.

There could be some SEC trouble there since this was said on an investor call. It’ll be interesting to see if any action is taken.

 

[pchung6]

Maybe not. Free enrollment of mandatory resales was a big surprise and worth a lot. Many MVC owners are not happy about all the Vistana owners being able to book up Marriott.

I don’t want anything from Marriott even it’s free. It worth zero to me, or negative value. Marriott please take everything back, just don’t let Marriott people book Vistana. I’m fine with everything Vistana provided before.

 

[DanCali]

We’ll have to see how it goes, because the added issue of booking at 8 months. I am assuming there won’t be much inventory since you can book at 12 with points and more competition for the good resorts.

VSN Abound exchanges will not be seeing the same inventory, and therefore not compete for the same inventory.

The Vistana inventory that will be available to book in Abound will be only from weeks that VSN owner actively elected to convert to Abound points for that use year (and potentially additional VSN inventory owned by the MVC Trust). Those weeks will no longer be available in VSN to book - not as home resort and not as Staroptions. No different that someone depositing their week in II. Once it's gone to an outside exchange company it's not in VSN.

The Vistana Inventory that will be available to book with Staroptions will be whatever weeks were not deposited in II or Abound that are still available for booking at 8 months out. Abound cannot access this inventory if it has not been deposited in Abound. Also, owners who elected Abound points will not be competing for this inventory using Staroptions (at least not using the Staroptions they gave up).

You may get more relative competition for some weeks within VSN. For example, suppose only Maui owners are tempted to elect Abound points. Then now all non-Maui owners in VSN will be competing for fewer remaining Maui weeks. But if no WSJ owners elect Abound, you will have fewer non-WSJ owners competing for WSJ weeks available in VSN (because many Maui owners will be gone). But this type of competition is within VSN at 8 months, not with Abound.

 

[DanCali]

As I said, it was added after we purchased so there's no way it will be in our documentation and therefore it's probably a 'benefit' they feel they can retire. It doesn't mean I like it.

It was certainly in my documentation in a more recent purchase than yours.

But so was this - so they can indeed take it away...

Like you said - it doesn't mean we have to like it. But they can't say that it wasn't in the docs. It's very explicit: "two succeeding use years". And as it says on row #1, it applies to all network members - doesn't matter when you bought in.